A new era in GSF? It looks like server merges are coming

[Nasja]

Megaservers...:

 

Advantages:

Instant queue pops on GSF, WZ's, FP's as well as multiple OPS that is easy to get into

A large GTN with "everything" available and low prices

 

Disadvantages:

Meta GSF matches with 3 gs's on 1 target instant death or prt prt prt, blc scout and you are gone in 2 / 3 hits no matter what ship you fly / how you set it up

 

Completely filled up non instanced heroics, even during downtime, same for open world. Good luck completing non instanced heroics and gathering materials, even lvl-ing toons becomes frustrating

 

Didn't I mention it yet: LAG!

 

I rather play on a "medium / low" pop server with not much to complain about, then some mega server with huge amounts of players every time of the day.

[FlavivsAetivs]

Not to mention that our server is suddenly going to have teams of premades in 4 and 8 man groups who use Teamspeak and coordinated hyperspace beacon drops and everything they can find to make themselves invincible, along with the fact they only fly meta ships.

 

I've actually heard from some visiting players, including scrabs, that JC was rather gunship-centric.

 

It used to be. Most of those players are gone. Sometimes at night it can be still, depending on what imps are online. Generally speaking there's only like 2 gunships on a team though.

 

~ Eudoxia

Edited February 24, 2016 by FlavivsAetivs

[ALaggyGrunt]

The extra players could mean proper matchmaking. The premades will be able to do that all they want, but they'll be facing that kind of competition a lot more often.

At least, they will if the matchmaker happens. Then maybe we'll get ranked.

Edited February 24, 2016 by ALaggyGrunt

[Pietrastor]

Megaservers...:

 

Advantages:

Instant queue pops on GSF, WZ's, FP's as well as multiple OPS that is easy to get into

A large GTN with "everything" available and low prices

 

Disadvantages:

Meta GSF matches with 3 gs's on 1 target instant death or prt prt prt, blc scout and you are gone in 2 / 3 hits no matter what ship you fly / how you set it up

TO sum up: advantages completly outweigh potential hypothetical disadvantages. NEXT!

[FlavivsAetivs]

No, it doesn't. Matchmaking will never work correctly, it works in the following order (in theory):

 

1. Premades vs Premades

2. Premades vs Noobs

3. Noobs vs Solo Vets

4. Solo vets vs solo vets

 

Again, invincible premades make things worse. Premades versus noobs will be the 2nd most common kind of match. It will only encourage things like throwing matches, or not playing GSF, it doesn't matter how friendly and helpful we are as a community. That's why the people on Jedi Cov, stayed on Jedi Cov. It's casual, it's not a pissing contest like Harbinger, and it's not constantly going up against a wall of gunships and BLC scouts.

 

~ Eudoxia

Edited February 24, 2016 by FlavivsAetivs

[Jazyra]

Mega server merge is a good thing. Asked for years now since dev's do not want to invest time and money into Cross-server.

 

All we need is q pop as a pvp player, whatever your point of view. I've myselff migrated 3 times in 6 months just to have more play time instead of slack time.

 

But again, the priority for me is a balance patch pvp & gsf wise. That's what will brings people into it, but this is an another subject.

 

@Eudoxia : Do not try to argue with "ace" you piece of strike. Dunno how it is on US but there is still people who can (try to) compete without meta even on the biggest server.

Edited February 24, 2016 by Jazyra

[Maulkat]

Oh my, I wish I could have seen and replied to this thread yesterday. So many different topics all in one. lol

 

It would be appreciated if stones would stop being thrown at the Harbinger server. Honestly I don't see that many GS walls and not "all" the time as has been stated. I fly at different times through the week and on different days, so of course, I might just be missing all these walls that have been mentioned. Normally, I come across a wall once or twice a week. One was just Monday.

I do agree most people on Harbinger fly META ships (I do) BUT GSF IS PVP! If you don't play to win, don't queue. Fly whatever you want to fly, but fly to win. Never once have I told a person, "you must fly X type of ship" and I doubt I ever will.

 

Done hijacking the thread if you want to talk about any of the off topic stuff, start a new one, send me a mail or catch me in game. Back to topic.

 

It would be great for a mega server, I think. A downside (for me) is all the work I've put into ships on other servers will be thrown out the window. With the exception of JC and TEH, my toons have the same names and share the same legacy name. So a name change would be forced on them.

As for the lag in gsf, that's something I rarely suffer from. The latency might be an issue, but even there, I've been lucky and have a decent number on NA servers. EU servers are different for me and I have a higher number there.

If the matchmaking worked properly and enough vets/noobs were in queue, the mega server would work. Overall though, is our community large enough to support this? I don't think so. In my cross server flying, I come across other pilots doing the same thing as me...new toons, different servers. Despon, Sriia, Drakolich, Mybomb and Slashy, just to name a few. Some with the same name and some under different. The name doesn't matter, but the pilot behind the screen.

As with pvp though, a group of four vets can queue for "non ranked" and roflestomp noobs or pug groups. Would a group of vets actually hit the "queue ranked" button or just group queue and face said new pilots? Depends on the wait time. If I wanted to do rank gsf right now, I wouldn't get a pop. As at this time of day (morning cst) there just isn't the population of vets also in queue.

Many people also solo queue, I do on other servers as well as my alts on Harbinger. There have been times where the queue has missed me or I have been faced with a team of 2-3 shippers and a stacked team on the other side. I am familiar with many of the pilots on Harbinger, I know which ones group and which ones solo normally. Would ranked be group or solo only? (not sure if this belongs here so sorry if it doesn't) Would the mega server work for grouped or solo only? In ranked ground, you have the options-queue solo, group queue, queue solo ranked and if you have a group of four in full pvp gear-queue group ranked (or close to that). Is that how it'll be? What's going to keep a premade from just queuing for a regular? Nothing...

So we're faced again with premades against noobs.

 

I think the cross server, mega server...whatever you want to call it, would work in theory, but in reality...not so much.

[Ramalina]

No, it doesn't. Matchmaking will never work correctly, it works in the following order (in theory):

 

1. Premades vs Premades

2. Premades vs Noobs

3. Noobs vs Solo Vets

4. Solo vets vs solo vets

 

Again, invincible premades make things worse. Premades versus noobs will be the 2nd most common kind of match. It will only encourage things like throwing matches, or not playing GSF, it doesn't matter how friendly and helpful we are as a community. That's why the people on Jedi Cov, stayed on Jedi Cov. It's casual, it's not a pissing contest like Harbinger, and it's not constantly going up against a wall of gunships and BLC scouts.

 

~ Eudoxia

 

No, that's not how it works.

 

It goes like this:

 

1 Make a match happen quickly, that is make at least two teams of 6 as soon as possible.

2 Subject to 1, pick groups of players before solo queued players.

3 Subject to 1 and 2, try to pick characters with similar levels of matches played and ship requisition when selecting the next player and/or group to add to the teams being formed. What we see as the incompetence of the matchmaker is likely a consequence of doing this step only once for each player/group, and not going back to review the teams and queue as a whole before finalizing team composition.

4 Subject to 1-3, consider not leaving a player stuck in the queue for days before they get a match.

 

If there are enough vets to have more than one match going for vets, and enough noobs to have more than one match going for noobs, then vet vs. noob should be fairly rare. Of course it'd be a lot rarer if they did a final pass on team balance in the matchmaker algorithm before setting teams instead of purely, "as you go along."

[SeCKSEgai]

Let me be the first to welcome you all to The Harbinger

 

And servers/shards are an outdated thing of times past.

 

Yeah, that's pretty much what comes to mind as the pop dwindles.

 

EDIT: @Maulkat - when other people are complaining about "something" outside of the gsf channel (and aren't me) just think about how many others aren't saying how they really feel. When I was a newer pilot and barely had a clue I never would say anything that bothered me because I wanted to be "better-informed" before making a decision or claim about something.

Edited February 24, 2016 by SeCKSEgai

[Lavaar]

Yeah, that's pretty much what comes to mind as the pop dwindles.

 

I have actually have noticed a resurgence in the pops all around lately, possibly due to lack of other content in the game as of late.

[RatPoison]

Curious Eudoxia...

 

Have you flown on any server other than JC on more than just an occasion or two? All this JC love is nice, but the reality is that Harbinger is not that different in respect to community. Sure... there is an increased likelihood of encountering premades and veteran fliers during certain time periods, but isn't that a healthy sign compared to the lack of groups and veterans on JC.

 

You, very regularly, group with folks and fly on JC slaughtering newbies with the best of them... but what's the value or point? Basically, you're breaking the proclaimed culture of JC by grouping up, but I would rationalize you group up because they're your buddies and/or it increases the ability for you to avoid using the meta ships you dislike since your group's skill level is likely greater than that of the opposing team.

 

All in good fun, but if you don't have any healthy amount of time logged on other servers... I would surmise that you'd have a difficult time comparing and contrasting the communities of servers.

 

...

 

That said, I'm fine with a megaserver... one for all of the continental United States would be fine too. Unfortunately, while I think the view that a surge in players initially is accurate... I also see the player base diminishing in much the same fashion it has on virtually every server after the merge for all the various reasons folks have mused about since GSF's decline began. To revitalize GSF, I think most of us would agree that it needs attention from the developers... to fix bugs, expand the game with maps and/or ships, and improve the vector of both learning to play and catch-up (requisition gain) of new players.

[FlavivsAetivs]

@Eudoxia : Do not try to argue with "ace" you piece of strike.

 

With all due respect, what exactly are you trying to say?

 

No, that's not how it works.

 

It goes like this:

 

1 Make a match happen quickly, that is make at least two teams of 6 as soon as possible.

2 Subject to 1, pick groups of players before solo queued players.

3 Subject to 1 and 2, try to pick characters with similar levels of matches played and ship requisition when selecting the next player and/or group to add to the teams being formed. What we see as the incompetence of the matchmaker is likely a consequence of doing this step only once for each player/group, and not going back to review the teams and queue as a whole before finalizing team composition.

4 Subject to 1-3, consider not leaving a player stuck in the queue for days before they get a match.

 

My understanding is that it has always prioritized Groups over Noobs over people with mastered ships (with the more mastered ships you have, the less likely you are to get a group). If that is true then the order I stated (barring noobs vs noobs which I forgot to list) is how it will go.

 

Curious Eudoxia...

 

Have you flown on any server other than JC on more than just an occasion or two? All this JC love is nice, but the reality is that Harbinger is not that different in respect to community. Sure... there is an increased likelihood of encountering premades and veteran fliers during certain time periods, but isn't that a healthy sign compared to the lack of groups and veterans on JC.

 

Shadowlands several times and I have a toon with a mastered Sting on TEH I don't talk about. Used to play there before June of last year.

 

You, very regularly, group with folks and fly on JC slaughtering newbies with the best of them... but what's the value or point? Basically, you're breaking the proclaimed culture of JC by grouping up, but I would rationalize you group up because they're your buddies and/or it increases the ability for you to avoid using the meta ships you dislike since your group's skill level is likely greater than that of the opposing team.

 

I just group with Traesha usually, and sometimes Linatabor. If pub side proves to be utterly incompetent after several matches I will grab I'rys or other veterans and form a group, but it usually takes a while for me to get pissed off like that. I'm very rarely grouped with more than 1 other person.

 

And no, I don't do it to play ships I want to fly, or to have an advantage of any kind. I will fly with people I like, that's it. And we don't do it to crush noobs. I've seen imp side winning a lot at night usually. I don't actually have a lot of "noob crusher" matches. Usually I end up in matches where we're just average players going at it often with a couple of noobs on either side.

 

I actually have to queue in a group now to get a pop at this point...

 

All in good fun, but if you don't have any healthy amount of time logged on other servers... I would surmise that you'd have a difficult time comparing and contrasting the communities of servers.

 

I've tried queueing on Harbinger, and every time I did I came up against a meta-ship wall (on top of the fact I lag over there). Traesha can tell you the same thing. And Averann, and Isalina. Averann enjoys it though (I know his toons on Harb he's in Maulkat's guild IIRC).

 

That said, I'm fine with a megaserver... one for all of the continental United States would be fine too. Unfortunately, while I think the view that a surge in players initially is accurate... I also see the player base diminishing in much the same fashion it has on virtually every server after the merge for all the various reasons folks have mused about since GSF's decline began. To revitalize GSF, I think most of us would agree that it needs attention from the developers... to fix bugs, expand the game with maps and/or ships, and improve the vector of both learning to play and catch-up (requisition gain) of new players.

 

Mostly agreed.

 

~ Eudoxia

Edited February 24, 2016 by FlavivsAetivs

[Danalon]

My understanding is that it has always prioritized Groups over Noobs over people with mastered ships (with the more mastered ships you have, the less likely you are to get a group). If that is true then the order I stated (barring noobs vs noobs which I forgot to list) is how it will go.

 

Afaik only the "most-mastered" ship on the bar is affecting queues, with one component of every slot at max as the highest value. Additional components and ships don't count.

It tries to match people with roughly the same numbers of games played.

 

As most active pilots have a mastered ship and a high number of games played, they sometimes get skipped because the matchmaker can't find anyone else with that much games played.

 

But the matchmaker also prioritizes groups (imho completely ignoring any other factors - never was skipped while grouped), which makes grouping up the only way for some veterans to get a queue.

 

The presence of 2 veterans is enough to determine the outcome of most games against groups with no veterans, which makes games seem a lot more unbalanced than they actually are.

[Jazyra]

With all due respect, what exactly are you trying to say?

 

Don't waste your time tryin explain GS/T2 scouts are op to people who only fly those and believe bombers are the problem.

[caederon]

Don't waste your time tryin explain GS/T2 scouts are op to people who only fly those and believe bombers are the problem.

The problem is not gunships.

 

The problem is not bombers.

 

The problem is not scouts.

 

The problem is people who don't know what they're doing, and don't know what they're talking about, complaining about game issues that they don't understand without making the requisite effort to actually learn the systems and mechanics underlying what is happening to them in the game.

 

I think there is sufficient GSF participation at all skill levels if you look at the combined population of the NA servers, for example, to field appropriately balanced matches between people of similar skill and experience.

 

Just judging by the recent SRW conquest week, there were at least sixty pilots who earned conquest points for the guild (and that number is not considering alts. I counted 95 total participants). There are quite a few 'name' veterans who did not participate in the event. It is tough to make an accurate guess at how many veteran GSF pilots are around but if pressed to, I would say that it is at least a hundred, probably fewer than three hundred. If the prospect of regularly available, competitive GSF games was reality, I would bank on a lot of people who have quit playing showing up as well. There are really quite a lot of mid-level and lower pilots playing these days, too.

 

Assuming technical issues allowed it to work, mega-servers would have plenty of people queuing up for matches against appropriately skilled players.

 

It'd be annoying to have the work I put in on various alts rendered essentially meaningless, but that's a small price to pay for a healthy population and quick pops whenever you want them.

 

Despon

[Nemarus]

One thought: If we do get megaservers, and veterans do get matched up a lot together, I think it'd be fun to still try and organize occasional "theme nights" just to mix things up.

 

Stock Night, Strike Night, etc. Also an "everyone solo queue" night would be nice, just to allow for some more casual furballing.

 

Of course it would mostly be us veterans actually honoring such nights, but that'll probably be fine.

 

It will be neat to have a giant GSF channel, too.

 

I know some folks have opinions about my personal motivations for playing, and what I like about TEH, and the ability to have a mix of match types (voice team vs. voice team, solo ace carries, "eating contests" between small numbers of aces on each side, etc.). I'll always personally prefer matches that have a spectrum of skill levels on each side, where individual performances can decide a match, but I am not so attached to that preference that I wouldn't want megaservers. I totally do think megaservers will be good for GSF on the long run. I do look forward to actually having enough consistent competition that getting on voice and coordinating is required to win. Will I still solo queue from time to time? Sure. But I recognize that if I do so on a mastered alt, I may be in for a pounding by a voice premade.

 

As for Eclipse Squadron, I think we will see some of our pilots try and compete at the top tiers, though it is going to take patience and practice to get there. We have some really good pilots on our ranks, but we have never had much need or motivation to play as an organized unit. Some of our members, including me, will give it a try. Others will remain pretty casual. And we will of course continue to welcome either type in the guild, since we are mainly a social group. We will have to be careful in how we construct queue groups though. I don't want my 1000 game, mastered alts dragging newer pilots into super tactical, premade vs. premade bouts.

Edited February 24, 2016 by Nemarus

[SeCKSEgai]

I'd be all about solo q night because too many players are too comfortable inflating their stats by stacking their team. Sure there would still be one-sided matches, but a lot less frequently than when the team is handpicked.

[RickDagles]

I am 100% behind the idea of mega servers. I'd love to get some 8v8 premade rivalries started!

 

 

The only ships that beat Clarion are Gunship and t2 scout. Rampart is called a Meta ship but I don't see why, I can hang out of range and protorp it to death, outrun it, and can eat its shields down faster than it can eat mine. Even if it has DR, Protorps ignore that. Quads and passes work fine if it's not a DR build. And its mines are effectively useless against a Clarion unless you do something absolutely stupid like intentionally run through them.

 

Barring (more than one) Gunship/or a T2 scout nothing else beats Clarion. T1/T2 Strikes, T1/T3 Scouts, any bomber except a good sledgehammer pilot, and any gunship without ion snare doing weapon power reduction are cannon fodder.

 

The reason you all can't do this is because you all think it's a support ship...

 

I don't claim to be the best pilot there is. I've fought against the members of Harb and SRW, they're WAY better than me. I just claim y'all consistently throw strikes out the window for no reason.

 

~ Eudoxia

 

Clarion is a cool ship and it's a lot of fun. But it can't solo kill a good Razorwire player. You'd need to land 3 protons. No good Rampart is going to stay in LoS that often.

 

 

Rampart is by far the best domination support ship in the game due to hyperspace beacon and ability to hold nodes. The clarion is decent support ship but it requires voice to actually use the repairs properly. As a solo queue ship it is pretty decent because it can tank a ton of damage, provide some good harassment against gunships (particularly feedback gunships), and hunt beacons/drones fairly well. It's quite bad against good scouts even with wingman. As stated earlier, it's not great against Razorwires. It is however quite decent against Legions due to tanking drones and seekers. The T3 Gunship is quite good against the T3 Strike.

 

I think the T3 strike's strongest role is in TDM rather than domination. It is actually really good at fighting against a team that's using a bunch of Legions (3+) and only a few gunships. This is because the clarion can laugh at seeker mines and railgun drones and do some meaningful harassment to gunships. It also laughs at feedback shield. In these circumstances, it is actually a better kite ship than an evasion scout.

Edited February 25, 2016 by RickDagles

[FlavivsAetivs]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=873570

 

4.3 info has been posted by devs. No confirmation of a merger, but confirmation of PvE/PvP instances.

 

You'd need to land 3 protons. No good Rampart is going to stay in LoS that often.

 

Hence why I said it's a patience thing, but we're supposed to be done talking about this.

 

~ Eudoxia

Edited February 25, 2016 by FlavivsAetivs

[caederon]

From that dev post:

 

Both PvP and PvE instances are now available on any server, allowing friends who prefer any gameplay type to play together on the same server.

Sooooo..... GSF is played in PvP Instances. What does it mean that they are 'available on any server' ? This statement is rather maddeningly vague. I guess we just wait for clarification.

 

Despon

[Lendul]

From that dev post:

 

 

Sooooo..... GSF is played in PvP Instances. What does it mean that they are 'available on any server' ? This statement is rather maddeningly vague. I guess we just wait for clarification.

 

Despon

You know how you can choose which instance of a planet you are on via the drop down menu on the map?

Hoth (1)

Hoth (2)

Hoth (3)

etc...

Now there will be both PvE and PvP versions of those.

[DakhathKilrathi]

Hey folks,

 

By the term "Megaservers" I presume you think we are collapsing multiple servers together into "megaservers." Especially with many of the quality of life features you highlighted. These changes were only designed to allow friends to play together, regardless of their personal playstyle. Now someone who wants to play on a PvP server can play on the same server as their friends who don't want to.

 

Hope that clears up any confusion.

 

-eric

 

 

lol

 

Yeah, this is about what I expected.

[Greezt]

lol

 

Yeah, this is about what I expected.

 

So basically, no merge?

[DakhathKilrathi]

So basically, no merge?

 

That's what Musco is saying, yes. There is the possibility that he's not allowed to talk about it yet if they really are planning it, but that's the official line for now.

[Greezt]

Ahh, that sucks. I was kind of looking forward to it.