Svancara Posted February 11, 2016 Author Share Posted February 11, 2016 The best thing you and other gamers can do - is to report of such gamers and situations. For example PM Musco until he answers, so devs take action against that account. Don't get me wrong, by no means am I trying to become sort of an activist and try to prevent kids from using the mechanics this game offers to them, I'm mainly trying to voice my concern. By no means is my aim to take over their parents' job. I only wished to see people's opinion on the matter, as seeing/hearing a kid go bonkers over something he essentially has no control over but still has difficulty coping with, is difficult to observe no matter on which platform/medium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svancara Posted February 11, 2016 Author Share Posted February 11, 2016 It is not even close to gambling. I can say it again, worded slightly differently, if it will help: it is not gambling because you have no chance to lose your "stake." You buy a pack, you get a pack. Okay, so how do you call compulsively buying an unknown package to try and hit your "lucky item"? I'm not calling it gambling pur sang, I'm calling it a form of gambling. I can see where you are coming from but certainly there is a form of "buying for the possibility of winning" here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImmortalLowlife Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 (edited) HA! Packs aren't really gambling imo. As others have said, you buy a pack, you always get items. The raffle tickets most Schools sell is closer to actual gambling than these packs are. When I was 6th grade, I hosted blackjack games in the bathroom for lunch money. THAT was gambling. These packs are more like pokemon cards lol. Edited February 11, 2016 by ImmortalLowlife Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 What does age have to do with anything? It's the PARENTS job to watch their children. Bioware is a business, not a nanny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 As others have mentioned, legally it's no different than pokemon card packs. Morally (or just in terms of "how comfortable" I am with it, if "morally" is too loaded a term for this discussion) I also put it on that same level. If a parent feels it strays too close to actual gambling or gambling-like behavior and wants to prohibit their kids from using it, more power to them - I'd fully support them and their right to make that choice for their family. If someone finds it a reprehensible way for a company to make money and chooses to stop interacting with the company because of it, I'd personally consider it an overreaction, but obviously that's their choice. I don't personally mind a company using this approach to raise revenue. I understand that the behavior it promotes can get addicting, but the same is true of micro-transaction games, collectible card games, etc. Adults should be monitoring themselves for signs of growing addicted, and parents should absolutely be monitoring their kids for the same. But in terms of the company offering the product, the only thing I would be concerned about is whether they're doing anything fraudulent, coercive, or deceptive in marketing it, and I don't see any of that here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogrewoo Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Makes you wonder if they should have outlawed baseball cards when I was a kid, bought packs upon packs and never knew what we were getting. Basically the same thing as this game, you buy packs of something knowing there is no guarantee in hope you get what you want. Something like slots however you dump money into and 80% of the time you get absolutely nothing in return. Is it conditioning kids to be gamblers? Maybe, yet gambling has been going on since the beginning of man and their children never had a Babe Ruth card or Unstable Lightsaber to try for back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoronmir Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 (edited) I see the OP's point. While consensual purchases of Cartel Credits, which are used to consensually obtain crates may not be "gambling" in the legal sense, we must think about the children. The Children! I was in the park last week and observed some kids (ages maybe around 12-13) playing basketball. There were two kids waiting their turn to play when one spot opened up on one of the teams. To decide who would fill that spot, the two kids resorted to Rock-Paper-Scissors. I immediately interceded, chastising them for gambling. I explained how Rock-Paper-Scissors is a gateway into crippling gambling addiction. And don't even get me started on the perniciousness of Rock-Paper-Scissors-Lizard-Spock! I started playing cards for money in junior high school (age 14). We had a standard game of Hearts we played every day during study hall. That was gambling (granted, it led to decades of nights, weekends, and sometimes weeks spent in casinos, but, hey, at least the drinks were free). Junior high was a very long time ago, but I don't recall ever receiving a "parting gift" for losing at Hearts. On the days that Toby Smothers took my money, he never offered something of value in return that I could sell. Truthfully, it's not that I mind so much introducing kids to the concept of gambling, it's that I very much mind doing so in a way that distorts what actual gambling entails. I hate to think that there is a generation of youths who, based on being told that SWTOR crates are "gambling," believe that when they lose a game of Hearts to their version of Toby Smothers, they should expect to walk away with some form of swag. Well, that and the fact that, unlike actual gambling, there is no real world reward for winning. Edited February 11, 2016 by Thoronmir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iacon Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 (edited) Kid threw a fit because they could not get what they wanted out of a pack? Seriously? I'd say there is a problem with the kid rather than the CM set up. Edited February 11, 2016 by iacon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 (edited) Okay, so how do you call compulsively buying an unknown package to try and hit your "lucky item"? I'm not calling it gambling pur sang, I'm calling it a form of gambling. What is a "form of gambling" if not gambling per se? It's not gambling. Edited February 11, 2016 by branmakmuffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoronmir Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 What is a "form of gambling" if not gambling per se? It's not gambling. This observation is not accurate, but it is a form of accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codedrago Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Legally, likely yes, they're safe. Morally however, encouraging gambling behaviour to kids didn't seem like a fun concept at all when I thought about it more... Maybe i'm just getting old. Legally - Fine Morally - Also fine. I'll take it as a lesson for the kids. Gambling only ends in disappointment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolxinol Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Legally, likely yes, they're safe. Morally however, encouraging gambling behaviour to kids didn't seem like a fun concept at all when I thought about it more... Maybe i'm just getting old. Actually, at that point, as a *parent* of said children, if you don't want your children exposed to it, then perhaps you should have them not play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psandak Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 I understand if you take it really literally, but it does encourage gambling behaviour because of its random content and knack for becoming adictive to keep buying packs on the off-chance you will hit the item you're actually after... It's definitely a form of gambling. From that perspective anything you do in the game is "gambling" This (and all games) are rife with random chance Join a queue - you may get a good group or a bad groupuse an ability to hit a target - you may hit you may misswhen you hit that target - there is a range of damage and there is a chance to critwhen you kill an NPC there is a chance that you will get lootwhen you get loot there is a chance for all sorts of stuff Heck from that perspective LIFE is a gamble Okay, so how do you call compulsively buying an unknown package to try and hit your "lucky item"? I'm not calling it gambling pur sang, I'm calling it a form of gambling. I can see where you are coming from but certainly there is a form of "buying for the possibility of winning" here? So would you call it gambling when someone compulsively runs the same content over and over and over to get the one piece of gear they really want and for whatever reason they are not getting it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigvaldson Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Heck from that perspective LIFE is a gamble Sometimes, you just need a dictionary. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gamble Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyaniteD Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Sometimes, you just need a dictionary. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gamble Yep. It's pretty simple. It's not the chance to win something but the risk to lose something that makes it gambling. With packs, you always "win" something. It would be different if there was a chance for the packs to be empty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigvaldson Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 The main difference is that you spend actual cash on online scratchtickets at the Cartel Market. That, by its very definition, is gambling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyaniteD Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) The main difference is that you spend actual cash on online scratchtickets at the Cartel Market. That, by its very definition, is gambling. That's only remotely comparable if the scratch tickets always get you something. With cartel packs, you always get something, but no matter what you get, you will never get "your real world money's worth" either in real world money or real world items, so you could say you always lose (or always win) since the virtual objects you 'receive' have no inherent real world value. Edited February 12, 2016 by KyaniteD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Yep. It's pretty simple. It's not the chance to win something but the risk to lose something that makes it gambling. With packs, you always "win" something. It would be different if there was a chance for the packs to be empty. Note to self: hold $100 buy-in poker tournament, make sure even last place gets a $1 keychain as a prize, proclaim it's not gambling since players always win something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyaniteD Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Note to self: hold $100 buy-in poker tournament, make sure even last place gets a $1 keychain as a prize, proclaim it's not gambling since players always win something. See above post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Applejacxs Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 I would say the cm is more like this op. As far as is this gambling or not I leave that to the parents who hopefully have a better grasp on the kid then probably anyone here would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casirabit Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 The problem is parents need to responsible for what their kids do online. They should never just think they are playing on the computer or something. I don't care if they throw a fit, a parent should always check what their child is doing whether online or outside somewhere. The problem is some parents want someone else to be responsible for their child when it is their responsibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luvfshng Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 wow you people are hilarious, this is not gambling. Gambling is betting real money on something and losing said money. Buying stuff from the CM you lose the money but you get said item for the money. so how is that gambling? Go find something else to complain about. Oh that's right this is the easily offended generation were probably dealing with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikonthenet Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) Definition of Gambling: 1. play games of chance for money; bet. 2. take risky action in the hope of a desired result. It very much is gambling. And while I'm not complaining(I have self control), I think games makers have taken a very bad path in this decision. One which in the end can only end badly for everyone. Edited February 12, 2016 by Nikonthenet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codedrago Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Definition of Gabling: 1. play games of chance for money; bet. 2. take risky action in the hope of a desired result. It very much is gambling. And while I'm not complaining, I think games makers have taken a very bad path in this decision. One which in the end can only end badly for everyone. Is Bioware going on a path you can't follow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikonthenet Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) Is Bioware going on a path you can't follow? I don't quite follow your question. I'm not complaining, it doesn't really effect me. But I do feel sooner or later what games companies are doing will come under scrutiny and that may not go well for them, which effects us and our enjoyment of the service they provide. As for the game itself, I quite enjoy it! Hopefully that covers everything. EDIT: Adding to the above: I will note that I don't see any pleasure in what there doing either. People don't seem to enjoy it, they don't even enjoy opening the crates, or so it seems. It is after all, pure skinner box psychology to feed peoples addiction and encourage more spending. No one can argue its done because 'it makes a good game experience'. Edited February 12, 2016 by Nikonthenet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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