Slicing post-nerf, please look at the numbers BW

[Keloran]

one of the things my wife and i both loved about swtor was that it had a skill that broke the old grind-till-you-drop model of every other mmo out there. With slicing, we could send companions out to make some creds while having fun questing and enjoying the excellent stories bw had crafted, instead of tediously grinding away to afford our training/repars/mounts.

 

I agree that slicing was op/exploitable and needed a nerf. But the proper approach would have been to limit the lvl of available missions to the lvl of the player/companions such that income would scale to game progression. This is how it should have been designed for every crew skill in the game from the very beginning. It makes no sense that my lvl 11 companion can go on lvl 50 missions. The exploitation factor in slicing would not have existed had bw taken this simple, common-sense approach to game design.

 

this.

[Aethena]

One of the things my wife and I both loved about SWTOR was that it had a skill that broke the old grind-till-you-drop model of every other MMO out there. With slicing, we could send companions out to make some creds while having fun questing and enjoying the excellent stories BW had crafted, instead of tediously grinding away to afford our training/repars/mounts.

 

I agree that slicing was op/exploitable and needed a nerf. But the proper approach would have been to limit the lvl of available missions to the lvl of the player/companions such that income would scale to game progression. This is how it should have been designed for EVERY crew skill in the game from the very beginning. It makes no sense that my lvl 11 companion can go on lvl 50 missions. The exploitation factor in slicing would not have existed had BW taken this simple, common-sense approach to game design.

 

+1 -- Bioware I hope you're listening (or reading... whatever).

[SirFlashington]

Okay, so now things look like they're equalizing a bit on the 1.0.1 spreadsheet. here's the updates. Thanks again to all of you who are contributing! It's still open and updating as I write .

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ag6DSToE8ms5dEY1V05ERUp4OGFPZ1Q4VE1CVk9HaWc

 

Class1 Lockbox Average: 9.52 credits/min

Class2 Lockbox Average: 21.02 credits/min (avg profit 121 creds)

Class3 Lockbox Average: -2.81 credits/min

Class4 Lockbox Average: 14.89 credits/min

Class5 Lockbox Average: 18.97 credits/min (avg profit 460 creds)

Class6 Lockbox Average: 5.00 credits/min

[zaroleq]

With this nerf it is now more profitable to farm level 1 mobs for cash than it is to be a slicer.

[SirFlashington]

With this nerf it is now more profitable to farm level 1 mobs for cash than it is to be a slicer.

 

heh, quite possibly. Given the amount of mobs you can destroy in a minute, and junk you pick up, you can certainly turn a higher profit than Slicing. The goal then, I guess - is for Slicing to be as invisible as possible to you as a player. You don't want to have to manage 2 companions coming back with pitiful amounts of dosh every 4 minutes if you can average the same every 30 minutes.

 

Or you can pick up treasure hunting. How's the return on that?

[zaroleq]

Wow..so followed your link, yeah it looks like they're nerfing it more? From the numbers you posted anyway.

[DervimNorth]

With Treasure Hunting it's more of a hit or miss kind of thing. You may get some cash OR you may end up getting some loot...Which nobody's gonna buy, because of Slicing nerf.

 

 

P.S. On the bright side, I've got tons of crafting missions from Slicing and sold those to vendor, got 1k for each purple...Hey, it's not like anybody needs those, right?

Edited December 28, 2011 by DervimNorth

[Mazaroth]

heh, quite possibly. Given the amount of mobs you can destroy in a minute, and junk you pick up, you can certainly turn a higher profit than Slicing. The goal then, I guess - is for Slicing to be as invisible as possible to you as a player. You don't want to have to manage 2 companions coming back with pitiful amounts of dosh every 4 minutes if you can average the same every 30 minutes.

 

Or you can pick up treasure hunting. How's the return on that?

 

Treasure hunting return based on lockbox missions is worse than Slicing. BUT treasure hunting also has missions that provide needed mats for prototype and above crafting schematics.

[SirFlashington]

Yeah as more people are adding to the stats, the profits are dropping. Level5 was at 22-25 a few hours ago

[SirFlashington]

Treasure hunting return based on lockbox missions is worse than Slicing. BUT treasure hunting also has missions that provide needed mats for prototype and above crafting schematics.

 

So Bioware are really just forcing the inter-dependencies of other crew skills on us. I can't blame them for that really. Slicing was just free money.

 

Sadly, that seems to be all it was.

[rijde]

I think that Bioware wanted to nerf the world drops and they trashed the missions. I just did a bountiful tier four and I lost about 200 credits on a green box. Screen caps, incoming, to Bioware. As some have said the main gains were people grinding out the lvl 50 boxes in pvp zones, etc.

[Brainstormz]

This game breaking bug proofs bioware does not know how to balance the game. Every time i try it i take a loss. Why should it be in the game if you only lose money bec of it.

[CoreofexisteNz]

To be honest. I think dont think Bioware even considered the price of the missions.

 

They knew Slicing was netting too much money atm. So they decided to nerf the lockboxes without even takingthe missions into account.

 

Please dont forget this profession has been changed/nerfed a total of 7 times before this one.

 

Originally slicing netting a chance of getting any materials + lockbox.

 

Then it got changed to only certain materials, then to only scavenge materials, then to no materials, then they decreased the money from lockboxes, then they rearranged the slicing resource in the open world to having -just- lockboxes. Then they added the missions. And now, they nerfed the boxes without taking the mission cost into consideration.

 

The best way for them to nerf slicing without losing its usefullness was to increase the times it took to get lockboxes by 15 mins.

 

It is now not even worth it to run around a lvl 50 planet and picking up the slicing resources if it means killing the mobs and wasting 30 seconds you could have been doing something more profitable.

 

If i can sell level 6 mats at 800-2k a pop(and I get between 4-6 out of an open world resource) I should be able to make the same amount of money slicing but that hasnt been the case since early beta, the occasional proc made it worth it though.

Now however... a lvl 6 open world resource is between 500-1000 instead of 1000-2000....

 

Not even worth the time it takes me to hover over my minimap to find out if its scavenging or slicing.

 

To be fair I am not like most here I didnt spend my days using the slicing missions to get my money so that didnt change at all. Considering the outrageous prices the people have been using on the GTN for selling underworld goods slicing was the way to go. Now i'll just have to level underworld trading myself -.-

[GumBoil]

Unfortunately, that would have required the devs to *gasp* think or *shudder* do some actual work. This is a classic case of mentally and physically lazy game design.

 

Heavy handed knee jerk reaction.

[DervimNorth]

So Bioware are really just forcing the inter-dependencies of other crew skills on us. I can't blame them for that really. Slicing was just free money.

 

Sadly, that seems to be all it was.

 

Meh, the only truly useful crew skill is Biochem, as it's the only one that matters in the end game, anyway. Sure, having Cyber until lvl 49 helps a bit, but come on-you can buy most of the mods via commendation vendors, especially so at lvl 50. And hey, since you're making more cash from killing lvl50 mobs than from pre-nerfed slicing, anyway, no sense in delaying, right? Just blast your way to lvl50.

[SirFlashington]

Treasure hunting return based on lockbox missions is worse than Slicing. BUT treasure hunting also has missions that provide needed mats for prototype and above crafting schematics.

 

 

Wow you're not wrong about the returns on treasure hunting. I just did a class2 lockbox mission for 285 credits. Received 181 credits back and a girdle which I vendored for 110.

 

Profit: 6credits.

Drinks are on me.

[Mazaroth]

So Bioware are really just forcing the inter-dependencies of other crew skills on us. I can't blame them for that really. Slicing was just free money.

 

Sadly, that seems to be all it was.

 

I personally think an interdependency of crewskills and crafting is a good thing for the game economy. It bolsters the community, trade, and can ensure no man is an island onto his craft - so to speak.

 

Slicing was always kind of an odd child out in the crewskill family. But it's a good skill for the genre and for non-crafters. A much better 'nerf' would have been to increase the time of slicing missions to compensate for the generally good to great payouts instead of changing to a break even or small payout 'nerf'.

 

Don't worry though folks. As long as we are voicing our concerns, issues, and problems we will at least get more insight into the how/why. Possibly even influence the next 'nerf'.

[VonBolding]

Please look at the numbers now Bioware.

I am not jumping up and down saying "PUT IT BACK". I am saying, however, that now it loses money.

 

Why should I pay 1400 credits on a C6 lockbox search for a box that returns 1000 credits?

Why should I pay 1900 credits for a high reward C5 lockbox that returns 1400 credits?

Remember your design goals BW, slicing is a mission skill for non-crafters. It is a way for them to utilize the crew skills to make money or get gear without entering the crafting world. This skill is no longer profitable as a mission skill.

 

Please consider adjusting it so the profit margin is smaller, not a complete loss now.

 

Please give BW some constructive forum posts on this topic, thank you.

 

I agree completely with this statement after experiencing the same exact traits to my "new and improved slicing skill" I think that it is a loss now and should be changed so that it only has a slight profit and not an entire loss.

[GumBoil]

If you use all the QQ to pay for your slicing missions it might be profitable again......lol.

 

 

Stop being lazy if you want to max out profit go find the boxes. I see tons of them as im leveling....

 

"It sucks cause I can't just click away to get credits in an already lazy gathering system."

 

Sadly post 'fix' a lot are still broken (un lootable) actually more than pre patch in my experience though I did just re start republic.

[DervimNorth]

I personally think an interdependency of crewskills and crafting is a good thing for the game economy. It bolsters the community, trade, and can ensure no man is an island onto his craft - so to speak.

 

Slicing was always kind of an odd child out in the crewskill family. But it's a good skill for the genre and for non-crafters. A much better 'nerf' would have been to increase the time of slicing missions to compensate for the generally good to great payouts instead of changing to a break even or small payout 'nerf'.

 

Don't worry though folks. As long as we are voicing our concerns, issues, and problems we will at least get more insight into the how/why. Possibly even influence the next 'nerf'.

 

Once again-what interdependency you're talking about? The only useful crafting skill out there is Biochem...Colored crystals are fun and all, but ultimately don't provide a bang for the buck.

 

As for voicing our concerns, well, you're awfully optimistic

[tiszack]

I'm just figuring out this whole crew skills and missions thing, so I may be a noob. I'm trying to figure out what all the complaints are about.

 

I just sent my guy on a mission that costed 95. He returned with a lockbox that had 181 credits. I sent him on a mission again that costed 95, and he came back with a lockbox with 125 credits, AND an Energy shield schematic.

 

Am I missing something ?

[SirFlashington]

Or Anti-nerf!? Right? (hah!)

I completely agree that inter-dependency is a good thing for an economy. Perhaps if Slicing had more to do with Mission gathering, rep buffs or some other PVe-driven perk, people wouldn't be dropping this so swiftly. Here's hoping they've nerfed this in order to reboot it later.

 

Also, thanks again for the collaborative awesomeness guys!

Right now the highest Credits/minute return is at 12.9 credits a minute.

I'm actually shocked it's been pulled back that far, since it is still an overhead for the player.

Edited December 28, 2011 by SirFlashington

[Brainstormz]

I'm just figuring out this whole crew skills and missions thing, so I may be a noob. I'm trying to figure out what all the complaints are about.

 

I just sent my guy on a mission that costed 95. He returned with a lockbox that had 181 credits. I sent him on a mission again that costed 95, and he came back with a lockbox with 125 credits, AND an Energy shield schematic.

 

Am I missing something ?

 

hello lvl 1 slicer.

[GumBoil]

Someone with a Twitter account ask them if they're going to address any of this. I've seen them respond to peoples problems on there. I'm curious if they give a s**t or are just going to ignore us.

 

Yeah what's up with that? Jeez, just put a 140 character reply in this thread, you know one of the official game mediums.

[smokingsnake]

Mission cost: 1700~

Income: 2100

Time:40~ minutes

Class skills cost:17-30k

 

 

Eyup.....