Slicing post-nerf, please look at the numbers BW

[RandyMcStud]

For other gathering profession, you can gain money by selling mats or use the mats and selling gear or simply craft the gear and not spend a dime on gear and still do fine. But slicer gain nothing AT ALL except augment which you need to craft exceptionally to get a augment slot. Simply put, slicing is worthless if not for the money.

 

Those who lose money for crafting are those who craft constantly and reverse engineer to get a blue / purple schematic and buying all schematic and skill. You need better money management instead of crying imbalance. I can buy my speeder at lv 25 in beta without doing any slicing.

 

This simply isnt true. To craft, you cannot simply gather, you also need to buy crafting materials from vendors which cant be gathered (other than through paid for missions), which cost thousands every batch of stuff you craft. Plus the process of gathering nodes then going to a vendor for other materials (the vendors in question are only at a handful of hubs), then crafting, then auctioning, is alot more involved than clicking a button every 30 minutes. Slicing can probably use a buff to none monetary rewards, but its money returns needed to be nerfed. You shouldnt make substantial income for basically doing nothing

[rlhaas]

That's the other thing - the failing at missions. Before this idiotic nerf, I would fail a few times a DAY. Now I'm failing every other mission. God. I hate you whiners, I hate you idiots and I hate pretty much everything about this new generation.

[Iamaborat]

I am only choosing Bountiful/Rich Yield missions. bro.

 

Simply put, there is not enough profit when you factor in that 1/3 of the time your mission just fails, 1/3 of the time you just lose money, and then 1/3 of the time you get a profit that is not very large. That doesn't count the rare critical proc, however.

 

The above is not acceptable when I am investing 30 minutes in one mission.

 

To be honest, my success rate is pretty high. I never fail because I never go for higher level missions due to this patch. I'm assuming that those 30 minute missions are at around level 40-50 missions (or the second to last missions category). In my opinion, since the patch, always go for rich/bountiful yields at the 25-32 range because it's a third of the time and brings pretty good profit.

[Anzel]

and to top everything off my PC CTD hard while playing on Alderaan. I had a net loss from slicing (400 slicing, level 32, rich only missions) of about 2000 credits. I reconnect to be number 140 something in the queue.

 

• NERFS
  
• CTDs
  
• QUEUES
  

 

My guess is that this game will be around for a couple of months.

[Blloodbane]

Yuppers, like most MMO's they make the retarded conclusion of over nerfing something, and yes they over nerfed it... losing money sucks... Whats the point?

 

I agree it was too good and even said they were going to nerf it, but come on seriously you LOSE money now. Not even including failed missions...

Edited December 28, 2011 by Blloodbane

[EvanSnowWolf]

That's the other thing - the failing at missions. Before this idiotic nerf, I would fail a few times a DAY. Now I'm failing every other mission. God. I hate you whiners, I hate you idiots and I hate pretty much everything about this new generation.

 

Obama 2012, amirite?!?!?!

[Tholena]

That's the other thing - the failing at missions. Before this idiotic nerf, I would fail a few times a DAY. Now I'm failing every other mission. God. I hate you whiners, I hate you idiots and I hate pretty much everything about this new generation.

 

This is simple, don't do orange missions. You won't fail as much (or at all maybe?)

[Kwyn]

Success rate was changed for the worse as well. I failed a yellow mission moments ago.

 

I ran 10 missions since I cam home from work. A ll Rich/Bountiful.

 

Net loss of 11.2k credits so far. No mission items or schematics

[rlhaas]

This simply isnt true. To craft, you cannot simply gather, you also need to buy crafting materials from vendors which cant be gathered (other than through paid for missions), which cost thousands every batch of stuff you craft. Plus the process of gathering nodes then going to a vendor for other materials (the vendors in question are only at a handful of hubs), then crafting, then auctioning, is alot more involved than clicking a button every 30 minutes. Slicing can probably use a buff to none monetary rewards, but its money returns needed to be nerfed. You shouldnt make substantial income for basically doing nothing

 

Um no. To craft you take a crafting profession and a gathering profession. From those two you gather materials to craft what you need. The materials you DO need to buy come from vendors (which you mentioned) which cost the EXORBITANT amount of 10-50 credits each. OOHHHHH the horror.

[Contumelious]

Yeah, and I need the money from Slicing to buy the mats I can't get myself to level my Synthweaving.

 

 

I know you don't want to admit that both paths lead to the same point, but your dancing around the truth is starting to get pathetic.

 

These are serious questions, you may find them off-topic, irrelevant, and not answer. I will not engage into this debate further regardless of your answers, as we are getting no-where. These question are merely to establish an idea of who I'm talking with.

 

Have you played other MMOs at a high level? If so, which ones and PvE or PvP?

What level, what class and what crew skill does your main have in SW:TOR?

 

Have a continued good evening.

[schizoophrenic]

If you are bleeding credits with slicing, you are doing things ENTIRELY WRONG. Ignore the C5 and C6 lockboxes (they are not worth it).

 

If you stick with missions in the 25-32 level, you will make 25k credits an hour when sending out two companions.

 

How about you all get off the forums and instead use your time productively and logically and make credits.

 

Thats twice I've seen this point made in this thread and it USED to be true.

no more,

I went off and played for 90 minutes and did 12-14 of those very missions...

guess what? net losses all round...with 60-70% acceptance on crew.

YAY for not doing your research!

[Putok]

IMHO they should just remove slicing completely and give people a profession respec if they wanted to nerf it to the point of being completely and totally useless.

[RandyMcStud]

So... instead of everyone being fair to the system we make it so that level 10s are paying 10,000 credits for a level 8 gun because of inflation caused by level 50 grind farmers?

 

Sounds fair. /sarcasm

 

Thats a complete none sequitor. Slicing isnt going to make level 10s afford level 50 prices. All it was doing was worsening the inflation, hurting those level tens even more (it wasnt level tens raking it in from slicing generally) and making everyone who wasnt a slicer feel they had a second rate choice. THAT was unfair. And level 10s dont need to be buying off AH in any case.

[VioletZero]

Doing dailies is a time sink, ie what an mmo maker wants. Free money that doesnt require you to stop doing anything else makes those timesinks less attractive options, which is not what mmos makers want. MMOs only want time savers which make the game more fun, and thus make people stick with it. Time savers that annoy everyone who doesnt have access to that time saver (none slicers) is the worst of both worlds.

 

This is exactly right, and onto another point.

 

The reason why it is bad to have directly profitable lockbox missions is SPECIFICALLY because of slicing alts.

 

If the system stayed the same, I guarantee you that many people will have many slicing alts that would just send all their companions on missions every hour to consistently generate money.

 

I don't need to tell you guys why that would be a bad thing.

 

Dailies cost time and effort to do. So while it is putting more money in, it does have a bit of a barrier to it

[Navaris]

This is clearly class warfare against the slicers. Because having 170k at level 33 is not fair. Edited December 28, 2011 by Navaris

[JCShooter]

Matter of the fact is that it got changed too soon, period.

 

Another fact is that the problem lays with how people used the slicing skill and not the slicing skill itself because it worked perfectly for two people (which is the amount it should in an MMO) to coop with the fixed vendor prices. It no longer does that.

[KingEoj]

they came down on it way to hard

it costs way to much money 30+ to send your crafters out at this point anyway

 

they should lower the cost it takes to send out crew members by 50% now, or undo the nerf.

[ryancwn]

This simply isnt true. To craft, you cannot simply gather, you also need to buy crafting materials from vendors which cant be gathered (other than through paid for missions), which cost thousands every batch of stuff you craft. Plus the process of gathering nodes then going to a vendor for other materials (the vendors in question are only at a handful of hubs), then crafting, then auctioning, is alot more involved than clicking a button every 30 minutes. Slicing can probably use a buff to none monetary rewards, but its money returns needed to be nerfed. You shouldnt make substantial income for basically doing nothing

 

I do crafting too and i know what they need to craft. Simply put, you spent all your money on unnessccary stuff and blame it on the crafting system. For me too craft, it is actually the same as slicing. I need to do more if I want a blue item but if all i want is to replace an outdated blue with a temporary green item. crafting is just the same as slicing. Clicking on a mission and wait for mat, then click on crafting and you get a crafted item.

 

It is a lot more involved if you are putting the money to make blue or purple gear but your gear is better than the slicer if you put in that much of time. Other wise, you don't need to spend much and don't even need to do much.

[Kazro]

The problem seems like people don’t understand slicing. The problem likely comes from the fact that slicers cut out the middle man as a gathering profession. When you look at the other professions they are likely just as profitable as slicing but with a much slower turnaround time.

 

Where a slicer nets 10,000 credits from his profession, a scavenger will get (X) amount of mats. The economy is young and has not balanced out yet. Players don’t know what to post their items out for maximum gains and so what they see is Slicers not having to play the AH to get their credits and assuming its OP.

 

In truth, had things of been left alone what would have happened in a few weeks would have been that the AH would have balanced out and other gathering professions would be making the same amount of money if not more as the slicers.

 

The best example I can give is from my own experience…

 

I have a Level 50 toon with 400 in Scavenging and Slicing (I’ve bounced between 3 other professions for my 3rd, so I’m not including it) I’ve had enough cash from my slicing to train all my skills when I level, to buy my speeder training, etc. My profit in an hour is about 30-40K with all 5 crew members doing slicer missions. In about the same amount of time, I can get about a stack Durasteel/Zal Alloy. (that’s 99 with them combined NOT 99 Durasteel and 99 Zal Alloy.) I don’t know what other server’s AHs are selling those items at, but I was selling 99 Durasteel for about 20-25K and Zal Alloy for about 15-20K. So while Slicer made more money on average, with the AH it wasn’t much of a loss.

 

Of course now that no one is going to have that kind of cash to toss around, you’ll see those numbers drop sharply within the next 2 days…

[RockOnn]

Tested for 1 hour, skill at mid-120s. Character level 15 (if that's relevant). Companion missions only, no gathering. Chose higher-yield missions for the most part, but mixed in augment missions when no lockbox skillups were available.

 

Net Loss of almost exactly 2000 credits.

Net Gain of two level 19 augments, neither of which I can use. Approximate auction house value of 100 credits each (real world is lower, by a bit).

 

Total Net Loss: 1800 credits

 

Average lockbox contents at this level in open world is about 35 credits, if I can find an uncontested node.

 

The above is real-world testing. I can't see how Bioware could have tested the nerf prior to implementation, based on A.) my results B.) the lack of tester feedback and C.) time to implementation of the nerf.

 

Maybe it gets better at higher levels? Or, if having a craft that returns raw credits has been found to be unbalancing, will there be some kind of reason to have it? I didn't get a schematic or mission in the hour I tested, so unless you really need a lot of augments, I cannot see a reason to keep it.

 

Sorry - while I can appreciate the frustration (and I really wish the results were worse so the people impacted by this nerf would have more justification for need to reverse it)- my testing results are completely different:

 

34 missions from 3 toons - there could be some variance based on the difference in companions, the level of the experience from the mission (some are grey, green, yellow, orange), the actual level of the skill (varied from 400 to 150) and maybe some other X factor (that I am failing to consider) but here is how it is shaking out so far. Overall PROFIT 5.69% (1,575 credits); which breaks up:

 

 

(a) Rich Missions LOSS 1.34% (-185 credits)

(b) Abundant Missions PROFIT 8.78% (934 credits)

© Moderate Missions PROFIT 25.45%(826 credits).

 

By the way, the Rich and Abundant Missions produced NO schematics or mission discoveries, while the Moderate Class 2 missions cited above produced two. As I said in a previous post, my concern is more for the mechanic of Yield versus just the nerf.

 

The low level toon actually seems most profitable but right now the sample is so low, I am calling that conclusion is anecdotal. I am going to give it a couple of days of testing and will post an exact breakdown of all of the factors, including my tracker.

[RandyMcStud]

Um no. To craft you take a crafting profession and a gathering profession. From those two you gather materials to craft what you need. The materials you DO need to buy come from vendors (which you mentioned) which cost the EXORBITANT amount of 10-50 credits each. OOHHHHH the horror.

 

A) crafting and gathering is a heck of alot more time consuming than slicing, and B) even at mid level those mats are costing upwards of 2k a batch, i was only spending 10-50 creds per item (even that adds up) below level 20.

 

It certainly wasnt free money, and slicing pretty much was just that.

[novaace]

Why are you people defending a nerf that made Slicing entirely useless? Please answer this question.

 

It wasn't an adjustment that made it balanced, it made it so that you lose money or don't make any profit the majority of the time.

Let me ask you a question as the answer to your question, what does other who have crew skills gain by nerfing slicing? Can you get slicing as a crew skill? Yes. Is there any restriction on acquiring slicing? Yes, but some as any other gathering skill, only one gathering skill is permitted.

 

Right now, Slicing is a waste of time. Unlike other missions, it makes no profit. I dropped the skill and acquired for another gathering skill to become another supplier, and there are many people who will do the same, which further increase the supply and decrease demand. When supply > demand, recession occurs, and that is not good in case you don't know.

 

So answer me, why is nerfing slicing so good and roll slicing is so bad?

[Rafkin]

Rich Yield spent 560 credits got 500 from the lockbox itself. Thank you Bioware. Good job. No items from the lockbox to resell, no resources it doesn't help contribute towards a crafting profession. It's completely pointless now that it doesn't even come close to breaking even.

 

Plus you had the chance at a schematic or something else to sell. Plus you can slice nodes in the world that cost you nothing. This iz how it is for every other gathering skill.

[Morrighane]

The slicing nerf was very necessary if you look at it from an economics perspective; as it was slicing was causing massive amounts of inflation. Slicing was essentially a privatized form of money printing. This is worsened by the fact that the basic input into the economy; quests and loot doesn't scale with inflatiton like wages do in real life (see Philips Curve). Honestly, BioWare should consult a proffessional economist on how changes will impact the market.

 

This is a common misconception in the forums. The fact is, you can't have an economy if people have no money to buy things, and slicing was one of the few sources of economic stimulus the game had. Now that's gone. Slicers bought the stuff being sold in the GTN, which gave at least some crafters the money to buy other crafter's items. Rinse and repeat, and you have yourself an economy. Yes, there is going to be some inflation, but that is normal until equilibrium is reached. This process of money changing hands multiple times is called the Velocity of Money and enables a single credit to generate value for multiple players as it changes hands. Without that initial stimulus, however, the economy will never get off the ground.

 

This game really needs a serious common sense overhaul on many levels, and the developers need to stop running around like headless chickens with a firehose and start focusing on the real problems that need to be fixed. They could have fixed the utter disaster that is the GTN and made it more efficient and user-friendly. People actually able to find stuff to buy might help the economy more than nerfing slicing into oblivion. This is looking more and more like Blizzard 2, the Nightmare Continues. How long do they think the people who quit WoW over crap like this (hunter class, anyone?) are going to put up with this?

 

Queues, dc's, mindless nerfs, inventory hassles from Hell and illegible fonts...this game is well on it's way to f2p status unless the developers get a grip.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Morrighane

[Zackreaver]

Really if they wanted to nerf slicing, they should have just extended the mission time.

 

 

Honestly, Slicing wasn't free money, it was SLOW money, anyone can make 10x as much money by actually farming up a flashpoint or selling their gathered materials, slicing was a way for us casual players to keep up with the end game without having to commit as much time.

 

If you guys were so worried about the economy being destroyed, your idiotic, farming lockboxes was a slow version of gathering materials and selling them on the auction house. Slicing was a way for the crafting professions to get customers, we could gather a small profit over time, then spend it on the products people made.

 

Even if Slicing needed a nerf, negative income is a bad idea.