Slicing post-nerf, please look at the numbers BW

[Kazro]

OK, but that's only one mission. If you do enough missions, you'll make a profit. You can further increase this profit with world nodes.

 

Again, it's only a loss if you're doing it wrong. If it makes you feel any better, Treasure Hunting is a loss when you do it wrong, too!

 

You are missing the point, when any other gathering profession does the same thing, they get SOMETHING back, not just a loss of profit. So the only way it becomes useful is with world nodes and crits

[Sleeptastic]

This is exactly the type of uninformed, knee-jerk, vocal minority response that we're upset about.

 

Slicing did not, in any way, allow you to make that much money. I had enough extra money to help a friend pay for his speeder license. Not much more than that.

 

Yes, we realize it needed a nerf. But they went too far with the nerf. That is the issue here.

 

Maybe you were doing it wrong cause I read the first 20 pages of this thread before skipping to the end and there were a ton of posts from people saying they were doing what you claim is impossible.

[VioletZero]

then what was the point in the first place? why even give us the option to make money this way if it was a real issue?

 

Because I don't think BioWare thought that one through well enough when they came up with it.

 

I guess upon thinking about it, Slicing isn't -that- bad of idea. After all, it could just be an extension of the credits you find on mobs.

 

Where the issues come in is where people consistently make money off of lockbox missions. Given how it works, it could easily spiral out of control and create way too much money in the economy. Since all you had to do was make an alt, get all your companions, boost their affection levels, boost slicing to 400 and viola! You have a money printer with little to no effort required.

 

What slicing should be there for is to make a little extra money off of finding nodes in the game world.

[Sterrius]

im going to wait until january to trade slicing. With the money i have now i can still make to 500k and buy my speeder and by then i will be upping a alt.

 

If in the next 1-2 patchs they dont fix im dropping after i get my augments.

 

Augments dont give profit. I never sold one and they only worth for self use as no one buy them.

 

The chests are rare to non existant in most planets. The only planet where i found a good number of chests is alderaan where you can get a good number of them in a hour running around the houses. Very nice for a 30 char but its not enough money for a lv40-50 that spend 15k only with repairs when he need too.

 

Coruscant and nar shadda give good boxes too but too low lv.

 

I hope that ilum, voss etc have a good number of chests around the world or im not getting any money. In hoth i know im not getting any money, quests are the only thing i can find to sustain me in that ice planet.

 

With slicing not giving profit i cant buy anymore the mats to go on with synthweaving so now i need archeology not only to bring me mats but to sell it to buy Underworld trading mats. And i will never be able to sell for a good profit as i cant compete with players that have all 3 skills in price.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Sterrius

[dingoperson]

I think Bioware's attitude is extremely bad.

 

There's a number of outstanding design issues (apart from this) that have been raised repeatedly and are major annoyances. There has been NO feedback on these AT ALL (I could provide a list, but they have all been mentioned 100s or 1000s of times).

 

Now Slicing is nerfed. I took up slicing as an in-game skill, because it was reported to make a lot of money - and it did. I did make a lot of money using it.

 

I haven't tried using it very much so far post patch, but the reports here, even if exaggerated, still makes it a very poor skill compared to others. The only meaningful things you can get from it are credits (bad) and augments. So basically you have a skill that does nothing but provide augments and a minor amount of credits that's less than what battlefields or any regular play provide. You used to make 100 credits playing regularly? Well, in return for sacrificing a skill slot you now make 130. Congratulations.

 

That is what it _looks like_ to me at this point. You know what? I am not sure that is _really_ the case. Maybe the top levels are different. Maybe affection really pushes up credit rates. Maybe Bioware thinks that you are supposed to suffer low returns in the beginning, just like many skills have low returns (except for starship components which, oh, for lv2 costs 4000 credits on the GTN) and then only have good returns later on. Maybe actually what is supposed to be the case is that most credits should come from high level lockboxes.

 

Bioware has however provided NO INSIGHT OR EXPLANATION AT ALL ABOUT THEIR DECISION. There's a staggering amount of myopic arrogance in place. And now other threads are closed and they redirect the discussion here - for what? Why? Do they really find this kind of discussion productive? They supply no meaningful information, they waste a huge number of people's time leveling up slicing, and now they want to observe the discussion like some kind of experiment?

 

That has been the attitude to pretty much every design issue. No communication. No "here is what we thought, this is why, this is the plan, here is how it will work" dev posts.

 

This is always an issue that comes down to _people_ and _culture_. There are people in Bioware that are in positions they shouldn't be in, and are driving this culture. They need to be replaced with people who behave like what I describe.

 

I've just cancelled my rebilling which should give enough time to see if BW mends their ways. Maybe the people with a clue and those who know how to communicate with a so-called "Player Base" are on holiday and will get back in ten days time. Somehow I doubt it.

[xDoomsDayx]

We are doing it wrong? I dont understand this.

My skill is 335ish and this was the result of the last 5 missions I have run

Abundant 1135 Returned 1042 = LOSS

Abundant 1135 Returned 991 = LOSS

Bountiful 1175 Returned 1416 = Profit

Rich 2025 Returned 2460= PROFIT

Rich 2025 Returned 1538 = LOSS

 

So the total was -48 credits for a total of around 2 hrs combined of slicing. yeah I sure am making a profit so far lol.

[GlassRain]

Account pending. To be fair its not even about slicing. Its the fact that this nerf is extremely heavy-handed. The game was in beta and a week out the gate they completely destroy a crewskill which I personally spent HOURS leveling. What comes next? They do a mass delete of all high level PvP gear because its so much easier to get and in most cases better than raid gear?

 

I hand the ball to Bioware hoping they will not fumble. The game is fun but this is too early in the games career for such an insane nerf.

 

Its time spend and time wasted. Now I will be considering if its money wasted.

 

 

 

Easy fix: Next time, beta test more.

Edited December 28, 2011 by GlassRain

[acheros]

Since all you had to do was make an alt, get all your companions, boost their affection levels, boost slicing to 400 and viola! You have a money printer with little to no effort required.

 

...No...

 

NO EFFORT!?!?!

 

Do you any any *********** idea how hard it is, and how long it takes to get ALL OF YOUR COMPANIONS AND BOOST THEIR AFFECTION!?!?!

[Toggles]

I wonder if anyone who called for the slicing nerf took a moment to consider how it will drastically impact their own playing for the worst.

 

Less money = less circulation. Um, hello! USA recession! Market declines, people stop spending, market declines further, people really stop spending, market declines even further, etc... Have fun selling both your drops and your crew skilled items you don't want.

 

Astronomical mission discovery and schematic prices. As if schematics weren't hard enough to get in the first place. How are you gonna run those missions to get that rare stuff used to make your pretty colored items. Slicers gotta make up the cost somewhere. What's that, now crafters and gatherers are raising their prices too? Who'd have guessed it. Happy grinding out mobs for credits.

 

Fewer augments, higher prices. Augment missions were pretty expensive for getting a random crap augment. Also consult my first point. There's a reason no one used augment missions to level up.

 

 

 

Really, the only person who actually benefits from this nerf is the lazy man. The guy who can't be bothered to send out his companions. The guy who doesn't care about upgrading his gear, random drops and quest rewards are good enough. This man stays the same throughout all this while everyone else is hurt by it.

[Fireal]

Makes no sense for you to lose money like that on missions. I used it as a supplement to my crafting profession. Instead of the missions skill I use the credits I gained to purchase materials for crafting. It seems to work out pretty even. Now it's screwed pretty badly.

[acheros]

I wonder if anyone who called for the slicing nerf took a moment to consider how it will drastically impact their own playing for the worst.

They didn't, they thought "****! THAT GUY HAS 400k CREDITS AT LEVEL 40!?!? THAT SURE SOUNDS LIKE ALOT! NERF NOAW!"

[Scoobings]

The money you get for selling mats on other mission skills comes from other players.

 

The money you get for slicing mission skills is just printed and given to you.

 

So is the money from treasure hunting, treasure crates, and mobs you kill, and quests. All of those things take less time than running a slicing mission. I'm waiting for someone to tell me why it matters that slicing credits come from no where.

[DavePete]

Han shot first! Who let George in the studio?

[indygamer]

I have been slicing non-stop since servers came up today. As of almost 6 hours of slicing on 3 companions for 6 hours. My profit is 2402, with 2 schematics. Kinda sucks now, but my view means nothing to a company like this. Already a reason to quit this game. Come on, you nerfed it in beta. Now its making players leave. Real good move.

 

Sorry but I had to laugh at this. People threatening to quit because they can no longer collect hand outs. Slicing was the easiest form of collecting money in a mmo I have ever seen. It required nothing but hitting a couple buttons and carrying on as usual.

 

As a matter of fact, I was able to watch a complete season of Bones online while slicing.

[Kashaan]

Maybe you were doing it wrong cause I read the first 20 pages of this thread before skipping to the end and there were a ton of posts from people saying they were doing what you claim is impossible.

 

 

What did I claim was impossible?

 

The FACT is that numbers were overblown by a vocal minority of people jealous that people with Slicing didn't have problems affording their Speeder license.

[EnddGame]

True or false? You can still harvest Slicing nodes, receive a lockbox, open that lockbox, and get immediate free credits for doing so.

 

No other profession makes a net income from missions. They are a net loss for everyone. More than anything they're a way for you to buy skill-ups in a craft with money rather than having to go out into the game and do something. Why should slicers be any different? Until now Slicing was the only profession that could entirely offset the price of skilling up to 400 through missions, and not only offset those costs but make a profit from nothing more than doing missions.

 

So, not only did slicer not lose money like every other profession, they actually made money. And this dynamic of no net-loss for doing missions meant that any level 10 alt could have a slicing ability of 400 and make thousands of credits an hour. A stupid, stupid system, and one that needed to be nerfed into the ground. I'm sure they'll do something to make it a little better in the future, but right now it's exactly where it needs to be.

 

so running around scavenging droids and crystals ect. ect. for mats isnt the exact same thing as slicing nodes? hey heres a novel idea how about selling those same mats that you found running? not only can this make you a profit, but if you choose not to sell them you have the items needed to create an item you can either use or sell for *shock* get this a profit *gasp*. now slicing is useless its not like this is wow where only thieves can open safes and make a profit by offering their skills to others.

 

the whiners killed makos main profession. rip mako you are now a useless companion looks like your going to have to turn some tricks to earn your keep on this ship.

[Zennshi]

Apparently I was out of line, and with the exception of that one ignorant person I apologize for any others I offended.

 

And to bioware - hear me out :

 

You messed up.

 

You messed up big time.

 

Look at all of the logic being presented, do you really think what you did was okay? You have offered nothing in regards to what you intend to do with this skill and you likely won't.

 

The money costs in this game are steep, and it is hard enough to level a crafting skill without wasting time farming mobs for hours on end or devoting half of your day to leveling to break even.

 

I especially don't like it when people who have no idea how economics work decide to spew ignorance all over these boards, because it is obvious that you listen to them, that is why we are at this impass.

 

You warned me. I hear you. But I have every right to be upset, and you have every right to hear me out.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Zennshi

[VioletZero]

...No...

 

NO EFFORT!?!?!

 

Do you any any *********** idea how hard it is, and how long it takes to get ALL OF YOUR COMPANIONS AND BOOST THEIR AFFECTION!?!?!

 

Yes.

 

When I say "little to no effort" I mean that it takes no effort to send all of them out on missions.

 

I would say that it takes about a week to get all of that done. Compare that amount of time to the amount of damage that can happen when this goes on for months straight. And when people start catching on to how damned effective this is.

Edited December 28, 2011 by VioletZero

[Nocturnalis]

They just need to make all mats and or schematics come from slicing then slicing will again be lucrative. Send companions on missions they bring back mats/schematics for all the other crafting professions, items get put on the GTN and the rest of the players should have to buy from the slicers.

 

If they want to nerf slicing into the ground just revamp it. They should have had to plan B for this profession.

[HelmetHarry]

The money you get for selling mats on other mission skills comes from other players.

 

The money you get for slicing mission skills is just printed and given to you.

 

And who is going to buy your mats? You and yours just killed the slicing profession. So who is going to buy your mats now? I'm not talking lvl 50 stuff. I'm talking low-mid level mats. Mats people bought when the opted to slice. No one.

 

And this is a good thing?

[Diegles]

I belive the nerf was in order. but at the moment it's too nerfed. You should consider nerfing the droprate of Mission Discovery and Schematics more drasticly(say by 80?%). I have 1 and a half bank bay filled with 300-400 skill DM/Schematics + half inventory.. Nobody buys them, it's more economical for me to sell them to vendor.

 

Players find the DM/Schematics go on GTK for 2-4k credits, and find it too expensive, because they know prices will fall, besides they most likly already have them already.

[alaizon]

Slicing = printing money = quantitative easing

[REMoyen]

Slicing was perfect the way it was. It enabled the ability to keep credits in the economy since users had to purchase items rather then craft their own, it removed the large portion of "Gold Spammers" because everyone could just make their own profits, Slicing scaled with the game with the cost of living, and more. Now it is utterly useless. You bleed credits. Every Gathering/Crafting profession would yield the same amount in the end. -_-

[VioletZero]

And who is going to buy your mats? You and yours just killed the slicing profession. So who is going to buy your mats now? I'm not talking lvl 50 stuff. I'm talking low-mid level mats. Mats people bought when the opted to slice. No one.

 

And this is a good thing?

 

You're exaggerating.

 

There will still be people who buy mats often. Ever played World of Warcraft? There are tons of people who like to power level their crafting professions by buying stacks of mats. Even low level ones.

 

Yes, there will be less. At least at first. But at least credits will have meaning again. At least they will have use and challenge attached to it.

[Seoleim]

I knew this nerf was coming and I could see it a mile away. The army of QQers on the forums determined to burn this skill into the ground was quite high. That said however I think all that really needed to be changed though were 2 things. 1. add a level cap to slicing so that you needed to be the minimum level to reach that bracket. 2. is below.

 

The main reason these people were mad I think is that someone who is lv 10 or 17 (when you get the robot) could potentially become incredibly rich by just sitting in town taking the right missions over and over. That I understand well and agree isn't fair. The time/reward ratio for those middle range missions was incredible. 2.5k - 3.5k rewards on missions that only cost about 1000c and take only 12 minutes? That's too out of whack.

 

The solution to this was an accurate strike against those set missions that provided such a disproportionate gain while raising the high end mission gain a little. I know i'd be fine with a 30 minute mission that cost 2000c and returned 3000 or 3500c. This isn't what happened though and now this could potentially make slicing pointless if it costs more money to than it brings in.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Seoleim