Slicing post-nerf, please look at the numbers BW

[Bohrizan]

The money you get for selling mats on other mission skills comes from other players.

 

The money you get for slicing mission skills is just printed and given to you.

 

Just stopped by to call you a retard.

 

The money you get for selling mats and mission skills comes from Slicers.

 

The mats, mission skills, gear, consumables, etc etc ETC that Slicers spend the money you're earning comes from... who again?

 

Anyone who objects to Slicing is a moron.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Bohrizan

[mrmaska]

Honestly, I believe you hit the nail on the head. Nevertheless, some of the sheer stupidity and ignorance in the thread is maddening.

 

this is the only obvious solution my dear wattson, The game is afoot!

[Phadian_gess]

You're not supposed to pay anything for them. You're supposed to wander the world and pick them up as they are lying around , free of charge.

 

I know this because I am constantly tripping over them.

 

^---- i see them everywhere as well

[ALB-AssassinX]

Like the majority of posters here I felt compelled to express my disappointment with today's patch and subsequent nerf to slicing.

 

I decided yesterday to pick up slicing after spending the my first few weeks with the game trying to make ends meet with SW/Arch/UWT. By the time I was level 24 I had about 8k to my name.

 

Now I know lots of you will tell me that is a direct result of how I play, and that may be true, but I'm a full-time grad student, with a full-time girlfriend, and believe it or not other responsibilities I need to attend to. I don't have time to complete every single quest that BW thought up to just upgrade my inventory, train my skills including speeders, and repair my equipment.

 

For me, slicing offered me a way to actually pay for some of this stuff without selling my soul. Was slicing perfect pre-nerf? I would say no, it wasn't. Was the nerf the best way to solve the problem? I don't think so.

 

Why not put a level cap on the higher level missions? Why should a level 25 character be able to run missions at 400 slicing? Maybe BW could have made it so that you could only run slicing on one character.. I dunno exactly what the answer is but nobody is paying me to figure that out.. I don't work at BW.

 

At this point I will be cancelling my account. This entire mess reminds me of WoW waaaay too much. I saw slicing as a way to keep my head above water and finance my way through the game as a casual player. Hopefully this gets sorted out in a way that works for everyone. We shall see.

[Dubhsidhe]

Bioware made a credit intensive game. Hell there is a WARNING to start saving for increased skill costs at level 19ish. I'm mid 30s and spending 8-12K to upgrade EACH class skill. 3-6K on repair bills. All that BEFORE I craft something. I'm 288 in Cybertech that has cost in excess of 400K so far just in VENDOR schematics. I've had to spend another 200K in the GTN buying underworld trading materials (obviously FROM someone selling those materials) Those materials have averaged between 300-100 PER material.

 

So if you WANT an influx of "Chinese Gold farmers" who will spam our chat channels to hell and flood and warp our economies. Stop Whining about how overpowered Slicing was. YES people who had no life or responsibilities racked up huge amounts of funds, those people will. Slicing enabled the casual gamer, the ones who can't log 6 or more hours on a regular daily basis to afford decent gear and keep pace. But apparently you'd rather they buy credits from the 3rd party farmer instead. Just remember it was BIOWARE who is selling VIP lounge passes for 1M, that's not a typo 1,000,000 credits to enter a room and meet 2 vendors. OR you can SPEND $20 real world for that opportunity.

 

No slicer will argue that the credit rewards were a bit high and needed a modest downgrade. But they would also point out that get half as many mission options (augments are a joke, a virtual niche market with zero interest SO FAR) Bioware needs to simply stop and actually do some math, maybe even log some tests with some players and SEE the end results. Because what ever formula they used to determine the extent of this nerf was in error.

 

Up until this point they had managed to bring something I was looking for, a strongly story based MMO, that felt like something more than a loot and tally game. I could get involved and invested in a story and the mechanics were secondary. NOW in order to further my story I need to apply and work the mechanics much like a job so I can have the resources to further the story. They have essentially removed the immersion by creating tedium.

 

 

I am NOT a power gamer, I do not generate level 50s in a week, or approach a game with added social baggage like DDk and such. I want a way to have fun with my buddies and enjoy a rich story and game and NOT have it be work. So remember when you want to complain about the ease of money generation. Not everyone has hours to burn on such.

[pryt]

There is already a HUGE credit sink, I just need to add that again and again.

 

Level 50 Epic gear = you will cry, believe me, you will cry when you need to repair it after a few deaths. And you will die quite often from time to time.

 

Anyways, we will see ...

[VioletZero]

Yeah, like I REALLY want my game to be like WoW.

 

In the end this is nothing more the envy and jealously. No different when people complain crafted armor is better then quest armor so they nerf crafting.

 

People who don't invest in material crafting should make more money. Plain and simple. Crafting is a money sink.

And instead of a tapping of a nerf bat, BW hit a home run.

So again, I thank you and yours for destroying a very viable skill.

 

What you just said was the textbook definition of rationalizing.

 

I actually do have one character that took up slicing. It is, by far, the easiest and cheesiest profession ever.

 

Whenever I consistently send my companions away on missions, it is done with budgeting and being ready to face the music for if I go broke for it.

 

With slicing, if I am not sending my companions away on missions, then I am losing money. There was ABSOLUTELY NO REASON not to have my companions away. Since the content was easy enough at the time.

 

And unlike other professions, what you get from missions actually fuels future missions and more. It paid for itself essentially. This was not something I could say about any other crew skill. It wasn't challenging, it wasn't fun, it was just pure money gain.

 

I wouldn't mind so much if this money came from someone. Like someone who benefited from my slicing missions and gave me money for it. But it comes from absolutely no where.

[iheartsigrid]

I am very upset.Bioware you broke slicing! Why even bother having implemented....for the slimmest chance at a nicer return ...for what if I have to incur more losses...

Thats like spending a dollar for a scratch ticket and getting 50cents

[DarthVertices]

Don't hate, but thanks for taking time out of your day to try and prove yourself. I'm just glad I have inspired you enough to actually make you do something. People are so easily manipulated.

 

You got troll'd hard, my work here is done.

 

So is mine kid.

 

And the 60 seconds it took to take that and upload it with my Xoom was backbreaking!

Edited December 28, 2011 by DarthVertices

[Rushmanyyz]

Just stopped by to call you a retard.

 

The money you get for selling mats and mission skills comes from Slicers.

 

The mats, mission skills, gear, consumables, etc etc ETC that Slicers spend money come from... who again?

 

Anyone who objects to Slicing is a moron.

 

Quoted for stupidity.

[supersonicks]

you said varying affection from your companions now what if you did all these missions with your highest affectionate companion surely there would not be much of a loss at all yes?

 

Honestly, it was unpredictable. I remember 2V with no affection getting me the 5K credit (~3K profit) on a mission. Khem did ~2K profit on a mission. I've seen Khem (highest affection) doing just a couple of hundred profit.. Too little of a sample to predict but gives a better picture that it isn't all negative returns. Most are still profit but significantly less than before.

[Phadian_gess]

Just stopped by to call you a retard.

 

The money you get for selling mats and mission skills comes from Slicers.

 

The mats, mission skills, gear, consumables, etc etc ETC that Slicers spend money come from... who again?

 

Anyone who objects to Slicing is a moron.

 

because name calling is mature

[laural]

It really does come down to the fact that they put in a profession and ran it through beta. It apparently got nerfed a bit in beta but didn't get an overhaul, so it still did what it was advertised to do. People have been planning their professions for their main and for their alts before this game became public, partially due to the description of the professions. The game then becomes public and people start their characters, take all their professions as planned and as described in the codex, and then this huge change happens quite suddenly.

 

It's an MMO and we all know change happens. The problem is, the BIG changes need to happen in beta. This way, the game still technically isn't out and people haven't started characters and leveled professions only to have something change with such a huge impact. Yes, they can go out and farm nodes, but that could potentially change the whole makeup of their current characters and mess with all the time they spent raising up the skill level for different professions on different characters.

 

As others have said, to make a change this big this early in the game makes you wonder what they'll do down the road. Makes you kind of wonder whether it's worth it to invest time in doing anything for fear of another big change. I don't mean normal tweaks. As I said, those happen in all MMOs. I mean BIG doozies like this one that should be done in the beta phase. It went on for long enough to know how much money people were bringing in.

[Twilightedge]

Was wondering if I wanted to keep slicing or not... I never really took any notice of how much I was making with it...with the nerf I thought I would quickly check how much I do actually make.

This is a rough calculation of what I made...

Location Taris, level 37, population 25 people in zone and my slicing is at 400.

I started by sending Mako on A test of intelligence (wealthy 320) a wealthy mission. While she was on this mission I sent out out the other 2 companions doing slicing missions.. didn't take not of time but roughly 1 3/4 hrs. playtime. During this time I did 4 missions and 2 bonus missions.. not skipping any movies. Playing how I would normally play.. if I saw a resource scavenging and slicing on my radar I would head towards it kill any mobs around and collect...

here's the figures I came back with.

Missions:

The Fly on the Wall (Rich class 5) x2 returns = +418, +256 = 674 credits

Data Race (abundant class 6) x2 returns= + 654, -36 = 618 credits

Taking Back Control (Rich class 5) x2 returns = -48, +1900, +1 scavenging mission (320), 1852 credits

 

Boxes picked up during while travelling to missions and during bonuses.. didn't pick any up in instance but the instances where short.

 

Class 3 boxes x8 = +473,+595,+588,+676,+436,+698,+457,+875 = 4798 credits

Class 4 boxes x12 = +685,+765,+746,+1125,+1109,+1127,+736,+949,+552,+809,+908,+1192 = 11611 credits

When Mako came back after elite mission she made 32 credits and a Advance redoubt +22 aim.

 

So after 2 and a bit play time slicing made me:-

money from missions = 3,173 credits

Money from boxes in world = 16377 credits

Total from slicing = 19550 credits

1 scavenging mission and a

Advance redoubt +22 aim

 

Conclusion money from missions is next to nothing.. having 25 people in zone was a boon as no one was competing for credit boxes, I think I will stick with Slicing.

[Zennshi]

Truth be told, I am actually not selling any of my mats on the GTN. I'm doing Bioanalysis and I am not selling my mats on the GTN. Broke, and I prefer it this way over having money coming out of my ears. Because money management is actually a challenge and I have to actually prioritize what I want to buy and such. Including training and the basic costs of getting your gear repaired.

 

Then you can play the way you do, and I can play the way I do. You see, the funny thing about pricing and economics is that everything has value, and if people are willing to pay more for a product they will. So as the money increases, the amount that stuff is worth increases too, which benefits low level players the most.

 

What you slice nerf whiners have done is screwed the lowbies. Do you feel good about yourselves?

 

This ignorance of economics ruins auctioning systems.

[bnzbacca]

PLEASE UN-NERF THIS... I want to make a ton of money tooo!!!! all the other stuff is useless.

[acheros]

I never had any credit problems, and I never had slicing.

 

Before this nerf, I can't believe how much money I would have had, and how ridiculous it would have felt.

 

I could easily fund my alt *now*, and I am level 47, not level 50. I am spending credits left right and center currently, yet I still have a steady 600k.

 

Stop making slicing seem like the only way to "earn"(used very loosely in conjuction with slicing) money. Money was never that hard to come by, and the introduction of slicing, easily the most stupid skill (press button for free credits) I have ever seen, Bioware basically ruined the economy.

 

People still have money to spend.

No, slicer were not carrying everyone elses weight.

 

Not everyone, but a majority. Less money to go around, means less people buying, and for less prices.

 

Also, doing nothing but missions, and only spending money on

 

repairs

abilities

the rare medpac/willpower stem that i needed

 

I -barely- had enough money to buy my speeder at level 25.

I'm coming up on level 40 soon, and i won't have enough for the next one.

 

That wouldn't be a problem, if every planet wasn't the size of texas and missions didn't make me run from one end or the other.

 

Not to mention the credits missions give you at hire levels isn't enough with how much abilities cost. Most of the people whining about "too much money is being made" probably don't have a high level character.

 

THIS! is what happens when you complain about things you don't fully understand, both sides lose out.

[Hidalgo]

i can't afford to keep testing slicing hoping that it will pay out soon. even Automated Saboteur and For Better or Worse are starting to drain me too fast.

[Kashaan]

Bioware made a credit intensive game. Hell there is a WARNING to start saving for increased skill costs at level 19ish. I'm mid 30s and spending 8-12K to upgrade EACH class skill. 3-6K on repair bills. All that BEFORE I craft something. I'm 288 in Cybertech that has cost in excess of 400K so far just in VENDOR schematics. I've had to spend another 200K in the GTN buying underworld trading materials (obviously FROM someone selling those materials) Those materials have averaged between 300-100 PER material.

 

So if you WANT an influx of "Chinese Gold farmers" who will spam our chat channels to hell and flood and warp our economies. Stop Whining about how overpowered Slicing was. YES people who had no life or responsibilities racked up huge amounts of funds, those people will. Slicing enabled the casual gamer, the ones who can't log 6 or more hours on a regular daily basis to afford decent gear and keep pace. But apparently you'd rather they buy credits from the 3rd party farmer instead. Just remember it was BIOWARE who is selling VIP lounge passes for 1M, that's not a typo 1,000,000 credits to enter a room and meet 2 vendors. OR you can SPEND $20 real world for that opportunity.

 

No slicer will argue that the credit rewards were a bit high and needed a modest downgrade. But they would also point out that get half as many mission options (augments are a joke, a virtual niche market with zero interest SO FAR) Bioware needs to simply stop and actually do some math, maybe even log some tests with some players and SEE the end results. Because what ever formula they used to determine the extent of this nerf was in error.

 

Up until this point they had managed to bring something I was looking for, a strongly story based MMO, that felt like something more than a loot and tally game. I could get involved and invested in a story and the mechanics were secondary. NOW in order to further my story I need to apply and work the mechanics much like a job so I can have the resources to further the story. They have essentially removed the immersion by creating tedium.

 

 

I am NOT a power gamer, I do not generate level 50s in a week, or approach a game with added social baggage like DDk and such. I want a way to have fun with my buddies and enjoy a rich story and game and NOT have it be work. So remember when you want to complain about the ease of money generation. Not everyone has hours to burn on such.

 

 

Nice post. Q'dFT

[Bohrizan]

Quoted for stupidity.

Quoted because your lacking IQ is incapable of supplying a reason for such a statement.

 

because name calling is mature

This entire thread has been non-slicers trolling the hell out of slicers that are providing legitimate feedback and have every damn right to be angry. In short, get the hell over it, baby.

[Benk]

It really does come down to the fact that they put in a profession and ran it through beta. It apparently got nerfed a bit in beta but didn't get an overhaul, so it still did what it was advertised to do. People have been planning their professions for their main and for their alts before this game became public, partially due to the description of the professions. The game then becomes public and people start their characters, take all their professions as planned and as described in the codex, and then this huge change happens quite suddenly.

 

It's an MMO and we all know change happens. The problem is, the BIG changes need to happen in beta. This way, the game still technically isn't out and people haven't started characters and leveled professions only to have something change with such a huge impact. Yes, they can go out and farm nodes, but that could potentially change the whole makeup of their current characters and mess with all the time they spent raising up the skill level for different professions on different characters.

 

As others have said, to make a change this big this early in the game makes you wonder what they'll do down the road. Makes you kind of wonder whether it's worth it to invest time in doing anything for fear of another big change. I don't mean normal tweaks. As I said, those happen in all MMOs. I mean BIG doozies like this one that should be done in the beta phase. It went on for long enough to know how much money people were bringing in.

 

This is not a game changing nerf. It effected a non-crafting crew skill, which is as far from being game changing as you can be. Get over it; besides, I make plenty of credits running TH missions, slicing is not the only gathering profession that netted lockboxes.

[aClue]

Was wondering if I wanted to keep slicing or not... I never really took any notice of how much I was making with it...with the nerf I thought I would quickly check how much I do actually make.

This is a rough calculation of what I made...

Location Taris, level 37, population 25 people in zone and my slicing is at 400.

I started by sending Mako on A test of intelligence (wealthy 320) a wealthy mission. While she was on this mission I sent out out the other 2 companions doing slicing missions.. didn't take not of time but roughly 1 3/4 hrs. playtime. During this time I did 4 missions and 2 bonus missions.. not skipping any movies. Playing how I would normally play.. if I saw a resource scavenging and slicing on my radar I would head towards it kill any mobs around and collect...

here's the figures I came back with.

Missions:

The Fly on the Wall (Rich class 5) x2 returns = +418, +256 = 674 credits

Data Race (abundant class 6) x2 returns= + 654, -36 = 618 credits

Taking Back Control (Rich class 5) x2 returns = -48, +1900, +1 scavenging mission (320), 1852 credits

 

Boxes picked up during while travelling to missions and during bonuses.. didn't pick any up in instance but the instances where short.

 

Class 3 boxes x8 = +473,+595,+588,+676,+436,+698,+457,+875 = 4798 credits

Class 4 boxes x12 = +685,+765,+746,+1125,+1109,+1127,+736,+949,+552,+809,+908,+1192 = 11611 credits

When Mako came back after elite mission she made 32 credits and a Advance redoubt +22 aim.

 

So after 2 and a bit play time slicing made me:-

money from missions = 3,173 credits

Money from boxes in world = 16377 credits

Total from slicing = 19550 credits

1 scavenging mission and a

Advance redoubt +22 aim

 

Conclusion money from missions is next to nothing.. having 25 people in zone was a boon as no one was competing for credit boxes, I think I will stick with Slicing.

 

 

You aren't quoting true profit, are you? Are you deducting what each mission costs you before you total up?

[VioletZero]

Then you can play the way you do, and I can play the way I do. You see, the funny thing about pricing and economics is that everything has value, and if people are willing to pay more for a product they will. So as the money increases, the amount that stuff is worth increases too, which benefits low level players the most.

What you slice nerf whiners have done is screwed the lowbies. Do you feel good about yourselves?

This ignorance of economics ruins auctioning systems.

 

Yes. Yes I do because that's how it should be. Players need to go through that period of being completely broke if they're expected to compete in the end game.

[Zennshi]

What you just said was the textbook definition of rationalizing.

 

I actually do have one character that took up slicing. It is, by far, the easiest and cheesiest profession ever.

 

Whenever I consistently send my companions away on missions, it is done with budgeting and being ready to face the music for if I go broke for it.

 

With slicing, if I am not sending my companions away on missions, then I am losing money. There was ABSOLUTELY NO REASON not to have my companions away. Since the content was easy enough at the time.

 

And unlike other professions, what you get from missions actually fuels future missions and more. It paid for itself essentially. This was not something I could say about any other crew skill. It wasn't challenging, it wasn't fun, it was just pure money gain.

 

I wouldn't mind so much if this money came from someone. Like someone who benefited from my slicing missions and gave me money for it. But it comes from absolutely no where.

 

Are you serious? Everything you have said in this post is rationalizing.

 

"Well I like to be broke, so you should like it too"

 

So because you feel that is how it should be, that is how it should be? Aren't you a bit full of yourself?

[Anzel]

I love how this thread got buried in some folder that nobody looks at. All other threads are promptly closed and redirected here.

 

Well done BioWare. You are now managing this game just like the countless failed MMOs that came before you. What's awesome is that when everyone just leaves you are all going to be scratching your heads trying to figure out what went wrong.