helpmewin Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 FS + S key will reset the CD for Barrier. And u can fly while barried and h2full al other teamm8s tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asaxor Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 You do know we had a silent nerf when caps were lengthened right? Sleepdart is a 6 second stun, flash bang is a 6 second stun. Capping nodes take 8 seconds. They used to be 6 seconds. I would sleepdart and cap. If broken I would flash bang and continue the cap. That all changed with 4.0 when capture time was extended 2 more seconds. I would sap cap often before 4.0 now it's about positioning. It's still doable but it's much more difficult. Now it's taking 2 to pull it off effectively. Trolling or clueless? Sleep dart is a 8 sec mezz. Flashbang is a 8 sec mezz. Capping is 6 sec in hypergates and 8 sec ellewhere except Novare where it's longer. Nothing has changed with the stun or cap durations in 4.0. Sap capping still works as easily as always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowmyname Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Trolling or clueless? Sleep dart is a 8 sec mezz. Flashbang is a 8 sec mezz. Capping is 6 sec in hypergates and 8 sec ellewhere except Novare where it's longer. Nothing has changed with the stun or cap durations in 4.0. Sap capping still works as easily as always. Alderaan. They used to be 6 sec caps. They are 8 seconds now. Dart and bang are 6 seconds. Had to confirm it to be sure weeks ago when I returned from deployment. I felt something was off and they were coming out of it early. Hypergate it does work still Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristrokratie Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Alderaan. They used to be 6 sec caps. They are 8 seconds now. Dart and bang are 6 seconds. Had to confirm it to be sure weeks ago when I returned from deployment. I felt something was off and they were coming out of it early. Hypergate it does work still no. 8 sec mezz. all caps are 8 secs except ahg and novare coast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodneyMcNeely Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 (edited) edit: 'con' operatives are in a good spot despite what people are saying . king of objectives , monoply on 1 vs 1 , massive sustain , above average burst. when people say you need to know every class ; its more like just know bare bones to get by ; aka enrage def = flashbang and use no dots , thermal detonator roll it off and roll again for the inc burst, use dodge cd when fully dotted to cleanse and if that fails vanish and reset. there a reason all the big streamers utilize operatives. Interestingly enough, I have yet to be burst down by a Concealment Operative on my Focus Guardian. Even when they open on me, I can swing the fight enough to make them either reset or run away. I concede the point that I've probably never been jumped by the upper echelons of Operative-dom, but that's my experience so far. Which goes to the point some people are making. I think Concealment needs more burst and less utility. From the perspective of the guy they always target, I don't feel there's much difference between Concealment and Lethality, to be quite honest. I DO have a harder time damaging Lethality Operatives as Focus, but that's because their DCDs synergize very well with their mobility. And I think that's the way they SHOULD play, being a DoT spec. But Concealment needs its mojo back. If it's going to be a burst class, it needs to be a burst class. It has minor self heals, so I think a SLIGHT reduction in mobility would be the perfect accompaniment to an increase in up-front burst. I'm completely aware of the irony of "nerf operatives" coming from a Guardian. Edited January 28, 2016 by RodneyMcNeely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bookworm_Jedi Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Noooo no nefs to ops It's too much fun to stealth + stab + poison + stealth out + self heal stealth out and do it all over again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowmyname Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 (edited) no. 8 sec mezz. all caps are 8 secs except ahg and novare coast Now do I go in game and check or bring up a video? I'm bored with both, and I'll wait here for both of you to show a clip of a sleepdart sapcap and a flashbang sapcap Edited January 28, 2016 by knowmyname Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zardar_Thrad Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 Pls nerf operatives. /Signed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuiveringPotato Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 (edited) Now do I go in game and check or bring up a video? I'm bored with both, and I'll wait here for both of you to show a clip of a sleepdart sapcap and a flashbang sapcap The sap duration has always been 8s, the cap duration for ACW and Voidstar have always been 8s, as well. Sap Caps only work so well in Hypergate because the cap time is 6s, while your mezz is 8s. Edited January 29, 2016 by QuiveringPotato Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowmyname Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 (edited) The sap duration has always been 8s, the cap duration for ACW and Voidstar have always been 8s, as well. Sap Caps only work so well in Hypergate because the cap time is 6s, while your mezz is 8s. 6 second sleep dart - 8 second cap. video made on the 26th of January, 2016 (2 days ago) I'm not talking about voidstar and ancient hypergate ok I stand corrected. the times have not changed. sleepdart and flashbang are 6 second stuns (MEZ) and the Alderaan captures are 8 seconds. just as I have been saying. the sleepdart and flashbang are NOT 8 second stuns (mez) as others have said. I was under the impression the capture times on Civil War (Alderaan) have changed, they did not. YES the tooltip says 8 seconds. but in a WZ its 6 seconds... https://youtu.be/E3YdusXgim4?t=2m36s May 2015 video clips - sleepdart used on the mara. then when I take the node a 2nd time later in the match, she uses her CC break on sleepdart and I hit her with flashbang. Notice the stun lasts 6 seconds while I cap for 8 seconds. The tooltip for flashbang does say 8 seconds but in a WZ it's actually 6 seconds. Same for sleepdart. Tooltip says 60 seconds but in fact it's 6 seconds inside a war zone. learn your abilities Edited January 29, 2016 by knowmyname Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soisa Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 (edited) learn your abilities # l2 keybind # l2p # nerf ops ( because one has to be nerfed since1.0) I see a lot of clicking people...... Whats wrong with u guys? Edited January 29, 2016 by Soisa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snave Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 6 second sleep dart - 8 second cap. video made on the 26th of January, 2016 (2 days ago) I'm not talking about voidstar and ancient hypergate ok I stand corrected. the times have not changed. sleepdart and flashbang are 6 second stuns (MEZ) and the Alderaan captures are 8 seconds. just as I have been saying. the sleepdart and flashbang are NOT 8 second stuns (mez) as others have said. I was under the impression the capture times on Civil War (Alderaan) have changed, they did not. YES the tooltip says 8 seconds. but in a WZ its 6 seconds... https://youtu.be/E3YdusXgim4?t=2m36s May 2015 video clips - sleepdart used on the mara. then when I take the node a 2nd time later in the match, she uses her CC break on sleepdart and I hit her with flashbang. Notice the stun lasts 6 seconds while I cap for 8 seconds. The tooltip for flashbang does say 8 seconds but in a WZ it's actually 6 seconds. Same for sleepdart. Tooltip says 60 seconds but in fact it's 6 seconds inside a war zone. learn your abilities Sleep dart and flashbang are 8 seconds duration from when you apply them. Both moves have a very slight "travel time" which will allow you to LOS your opponent while positioning for the sap cap. Cap times are all 8 seconds with the exception of AHG which is 6 seconds. Also, it's actually pretty hard to sap cap people if they have a basic understand of how CC works. In all the videos I've seen linked here the person defending was able to stop the cap had they selected the right ability. Also, it's possible to sap cap vs multiple people if you can get your timing right. Especially in AHG with the reduced cap time. Source: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpmewin Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 (edited) I will say few words about my personal opinion about new conc oper as player who mained sin very long time. First of all its predictable birst - volatile subtance is said "hey guy i will burst u now u can use something". Second is a lack of damage, even deception can kill tagret X2 faster, third - roll and HOTs one of the survivability mechanic and u can't do deeps while kite, its not a sorc who easily can kite and do damage. No cc breaker? 2 rolls - stunlocked - focused by 2 - dead. All conc gameplay is roll - HOTs - stunlock - burst - repeat. But gameplay is pretty fun - not spamming 3 buttons as usually do 80% specs in dis game. IMO everything except duels sin>oper. Even an average oper who knows what he is doing > any other spec in duels, but still think a good one AP PT, deception, rage or fury mara can rekt oper . This spec mostly for "salty " guys or who liked new operative mechanic. I know a lot of guys who mained scrapper and re-rolled on any other class coz they don't like new mechanic. Edited January 29, 2016 by helpmewin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhezvya Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 I wonder how people play ops/drells without key binding and quick hands. It is what deastroys them first of all. Skilled players (not me) can perform very well with this class, so well that you will die faster then finish typing INC W 1 But they are few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sappharan Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 This logic doesn't make any sense. Any class in the game can be good in 1v1's if the player is competent. The primary reason that Operative is the best 1v1 class is because of its offheals and the way that its defensive abilities work, which work extremely well against certain abilites if used correctly, and have short-ish CDs. Yes, I get that. Scoundrel/Operative (concealment) has a significant advantage over every other class in duels and are widely held to be the supreme 1v1 class/spec. The next-best 1v1 class in the game, imo, is a jugg, or an annihilation marauder, both of which have excellent toolkits[sic] when it comes to group fights, and are still extremely good in 1v1 encounters. Well, that is your opinion. I may have to give watchman another look. How would they even balance that? Your abilities when fighting a single target are nerfed by 50%, but when in a group fight, do full damage? Lol. Nice strawman. I never suggested anything of the kind. I am not a game developer. I'd probably start by reducing the immunity to damage/status while rolling and the heals while not specced healer. Then I'd increase your burst and defensive cd strength to compensate. However, as I mentioned, I am not a game developer and I do not often play my Operative, so I have little idea what would be an effective combination to make you stronger in groups and weaker in 1v1s. *Now* you have my permission to lampoon my suggestions. I think it's more likely that you're not interested in learning how to combat the class or playing one, and just want to whine whenever a decent operative beats you. Another thing to note, btw, is that the vast majority of operative DPS are trash and will have trouble fighting a decent sorc or merc. I honestly don't care that operatives are best 1v1 duelists. What I *DO* care about is the incessant whining I see from many operatives. The nerfs you guys have keening about were done about four years ago. It really is time to move on. The problem with making any class/spec too strong in multiple areas is the fotm phenomenon. Then you really WOULD see nerfs. Otherwise, I'd be happy to let operatives rule the roosts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skarvika Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 (edited) # l2 keybind # l2p # nerf ops ( because one has to be nerfed since1.0) I see a lot of clicking people...... Whats wrong with u guys? To me, clicking is just easier. I consistently get in the top 3 for damage (not rare to be #1) on my team with my jug and I click away like there's no tomorrow. This is mainly because when I trust my fingers to just hit the keys without looking at them, I'll often hit the wrong thing, which messes up my whole rotation, causing me to have to frantically improvise with it and thus not be as effective. Clicking makes me focus more and doesn't require me to take my hand off the mouse or movement keys. Edited January 30, 2016 by skarvika Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruhun Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 To me, clicking is just easier. I consistently get in the top 3 for damage (not rare to be #1) on my team with my jug and I click away like there's no tomorrow. This is mainly because when I trust my fingers to just hit the keys without looking at them, I'll often hit the wrong thing, which messes up my whole rotation, causing me to have to frantically improvise with it and thus not be as effective. Clicking makes me focus more and doesn't require me to take my hand off the mouse or movement keys. How do you not just do it off muscle memory at this point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skarvika Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 (edited) How do you not just do it off muscle memory at this point? Dunno, just don't. I hate taking my hands off the mouse/movement keys anyways, it's counter intuitive and feels panicky for me, especially when I have to reach for the keys. I have a good sense of where my abilities are on the bars so I do much better when I can click. Edited January 30, 2016 by skarvika Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruhun Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Dunno, just don't. I hate taking my hands off the mouse/movement keys anyways, it's counter intuitive and feels panicky for me, especially when I have to reach for the keys. I have a good sense of where my abilities are on the bars so I do much better when I can click. But you never have to take your hands off the movement keys, not totally anyway. Map it to the keys that you can access easily without straying too far from WASD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalirs Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Dunno, just don't. I hate taking my hands off the mouse/movement keys anyways, it's counter intuitive and feels panicky for me, especially when I have to reach for the keys. I have a good sense of where my abilities are on the bars so I do much better when I can click. I have to agree to this post. Though I can do keybindings, I enjoy the old fashioned way of doing things. If I joined a ranked team or took this game like I wanted to be something on the leaderboards then I would play more with keybindings, but I play it for the fun of it and I think that's how more people need to look at bindings vs. no bindings. On the other hand, to all those complaining about your parses and you click away, then I suggest you get some bindings down because there are FEW people who can click and keep up with those who bind. (Excuse me if my lingo isn't up to par; I just got back into the game after a long break.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skarvika Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 But you never have to take your hands off the movement keys, not totally anyway. Map it to the keys that you can access easily without straying too far from WASD. I attempted that, ended up getting very confused and panicking. Clicking for me isn't as slow as you're probably assuming; I usually don't have any of my standard rotation not on cooldown. It's incredibly comfortable and efficient (for me at least) to keep doing it this way, no need to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruhun Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 I attempted that, ended up getting very confused and panicking. Clicking for me isn't as slow as you're probably assuming; I usually don't have any of my standard rotation not on cooldown. It's incredibly comfortable and efficient (for me at least) to keep doing it this way, no need to change. Fair enough. I'm extremely twitchy when I play, and go off muscle memory. In fact I keep trying to use my standard rotation on the Mara I'm leveling on Harb, but she doesn't have Gore yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polline Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 i've to agree for what concearn pvp. Operative have to be nerfed, but only into pvp and need to be buffed into pve coz with an old update that class get nerfed only on pve healing skill in favor of mercenary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowmyname Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 (edited) It's not taking me 2 seconds after sleepdart or flashbang to click on the terminal. Sleepdart and flashbang are ending 2 seconds before the capture completes. Maybe since I'm running medic and the alacrity is impacting it? I don't know but last years videos are when I was running zero alacrity. I do keybind but it's mostly heals. You know, because healer discipline. The elitism keybind PvP garbage doesn't have to come into play. Not everyone keybinds. I do both as I'm still getting it down. I don't really take it serious because it's only a game used to relax. Not get all spun up and pissed about. Grow up kid. SWTOR is not life. I'm a bad. I'm a scrub. I know this. But it's funny when I do this to the good players. Or when I solo them at off nodes. So if I'm so terrible and bad at the game what does it say about these keybind elitist when they fail on a clicker? maybe you're in my streams getting your poop pushed in and you're upset. I'm not as elite as you when I make you look like you started only yesterday EDIT: I was incorrect. they are 8 seconds. the 2015 video I was popping probe to come out of stealth which cost me 1.5 global on the click. since then I have been using more keybinds. I use stealth to come out since it is instant. which you have to do to click and use the terminal when using sleepdart. it didn't matter since I used flashbang on this guy in the stream from this morning. love the CC break used on debilitate though another example from my earlier 2015 video clips of flashbang used on hypergate sapcap yes I screwed up the sleepdart again. bad positioning and too far away. though @ 2:52 sleepdart applied. sleepdart ended at 2:59 but that's only 7 seconds??? call it lag or crap video timing. but ill call it 8 seconds to appease the gods @ 3:16 flashbang applied. 3:24 flashbang ended 8 seconds. I did the work to backup your statements instead of just showing clips to my youtube channel. something you guys wouldn't do. actually show proof to prove me wrong in a game but to call it bad and get pissy about it just shows your mental maturity. I'll go back to trolling the forums now Edited January 30, 2016 by knowmyname Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smuglebunny Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Operatives used to posses: Cover that prevented leaps and pulls Orbital strike/flyby knockdown on attack out of stealth unlimited roll did more damage and heals just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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