Wolfninjajedi Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 I'm gona form an argument once I stopped caughing up blood from the cancer I got from Wolf. Please Zoltan, you have to know that both the Brothers(especially Maul) outclass the two in H2H, don't even try to deny that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 (edited) OK, so a lot of points have been made for the Brothers and I think their advantage is obvious, so I'll note so advantages that the Jedi possess namely: Kenobi may be outclassed in H2H, but he remains an Ataru master, and has demonstrated the speed and strength to knock Maul back, and even knock him down, with this kicks. Kenobi is a master of the Force, the debris and even the dirt could be weaponised here to off-balance the Brothers. He's also got electronic manipulation, if he can use this power to relieve Savage of his weapon he goes from vulnerable to formidable, through a combination of skill and cunning he could make this happen. Kenobi is a master of Sokan, he isn't going to allow himself to be isolated, cornered or altogether find himself in an indefensible position, Kenobi has limited options, but he will ensure he is able to employ all of them. Ahsoka is outclassed in most respects, but she remains extremely agile, and has used this agility to evade and escape the likes of Grievous. Against the slow swings of Savage it could buy her some time. EDIT: Oh, looks like Zoltan's here. No need for me to continue to defend Kenobi then. The electrical manipulation is hardly much of anything when Obi-Wan is gonna be busy dealing with Maul and he's gonna have his hands full before he just gets overwhelmed in H2H. The Vibroax is also something he isn't used to wielding and wouldn't be able to fully utilize it the way he would a lightsaber. This again even assuming he'd be able to get the ax in the first place. Yeah which is all she can do, also Savage? Slow? Da hell? He's shown to be pretty quick, he isn't slow. Edited February 5, 2016 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Yeah which is all she can do, also Savage? Slow? Da hell? He's shown to be pretty quick, he isn't slow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted February 5, 2016 Author Share Posted February 5, 2016 The electrical manipulation is hardly much of anything when Obi-Wan is gonna be busy dealing with Maul and he's gonna have his hands full before he just gets overwhelmed in H2H.Isn't it? If Kenobi is able to break away from Maul for a moment, which arguably he can, he need only gesture to relieve Savage of his weapon, and use the Force to retrieve it. I think its doable.The Vibroax is also something he isn't used to wielding and wouldn't be able to fully utilize it the way he would a lightsaber. This again even assuming he'd be able to get the ax in the first place.Certainly not, but I presume he's practiced in multiple forms of weaponry, we've seen him handle blasters, dual-wield with an electrostaff, as a Jedi Master he should be able to adapt fairly well.Yeah which is all she can do, also Savage? Slow? Da hell? He's shown to be pretty quick, he isn't slow.He is fast in general but his attack style favors strength over speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 (edited) Isn't it? If Kenobi is able to break away from Maul for a moment, which arguably he can, he need only gesture to relieve Savage of his weapon, and use the Force to retrieve it. I think its doable.Certainly not, but I presume he's practiced in multiple forms of weaponry, we've seen him handle blasters, dual-wield with an electrostaff, as a Jedi Master he should be able to adapt fairly well.He is fast in general but his attack style favors strength over speed. 1. I don't see it before he gets his torso punched in ala Darth Maul vs Wampa...but eh doubtful it'll be a simple gesture especially when he's preoccupied. 2. Sure he has shown the capacity of using other weapons, but that hardly means he'll be able to transistion is lightsaber skill to the ax. Which as said, he won't be wielding it as effectively. 3. Right but that doesn't mean he isn't gonna be able to tag either. Edited February 5, 2016 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted February 5, 2016 Author Share Posted February 5, 2016 Just to note that Kenobi can cushion Maul's blows with the Force, altogether though fair points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Just to note that Kenobi can cushion Maul's blows with the Force, altogether though fair points. Sure he can, but multiple barrages will take its toll on him even if that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 So Kenobi outclassed in H2H? ***** please... Kenobi is a master unarmed combatant: http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_large/11115/111155790/4930433-kenobiabilities.jpg Padawan Kenobi oneshots a Tae-Jitsu Master: http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11126/111265303/4926063-valor+one+shots+buck.png After days of torture AotC Kenobi defeats 2 merc: http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11126/111265303/4928071-valor+tortured+and+uses+unarmed+combat.png AotC Kenobi is beating Jango who killed jedi with his hands: http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11126/111265303/4928067-valor+kenobi+kicks+jango.gif TCW Kenobi beats a 4armed brute: http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11126/111265303/4929547-fourarms+1.png http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11126/111265303/4929548-fourarms+2.png http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11126/111265303/4929550-fourarms+3.png http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11126/111265303/4929551-fourarms+4.png RotS Kenobi beats Grievous in a mix of H2H and armed combat: He event bent his arm: But Obi-Wan's arm had the Force to give it strength, and the general's arm only had the innate crystalline intermolecular structure of duranium alloy. Grievous' forearm bent like a cheap spoon. —Revenge of the Sith novel Also TCW Maul is hardly untouchable in H2H combat: http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111137054/4251960-star+wars+-+the+clone+wars+-+the+sith+hunters+071.jpg http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111137054/4251965-darth+maul+bruu+jun+fan.jpg And TCW Kenobi can even tank the killing blow from above: Not to mention that TPM Maul doesn't have access to those legs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Please Zoltan, you have to know that both the Brothers(especially Maul) outclass the two in H2H, don't even try to deny that. I got AIDS next to my cancer. Thanks Wolf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarons Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Before I way in I have a question why are we using TPM maul and not TCW maul.Wouldn't TCW be his prime? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDutchman Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Wow, the Maul fanboys are out in full force today. Yes, the Jedi are overmatched, but not THAT overmatched. Savage is a brute, Ahsoka could dodge him quite easily, and use terrain to her advantage. And no, Savage can't just TK her at will, his TK was a blindside move that disrupted her plans, but still caused no actual damage. She was able to shield herself from the effects, and thus her force barrier is clearly stronger than Savage TK ability. Both Ahsoka and Obi-wan will attempt to: 1. Navigate the battle to bring themselves close together 2. Dodge, evade and disrupt their opponents. (eg, dirt in the eyes.) Both Maul and Savage are extremely arrogant, and Savage is a dumb brute besides, it wouldn't be that hard for Obi-wan and Ahsoka to outwit them long enough to either escape, or get reinforcements from Fisto (and maybe even Kuro if she's in the area). Potential Scenerio. Both Maul and Savage charge. Kenobi immediately hurls a few pieces of small debris at him, which Maul easily deflects, but is slowed down just enough for Kenobi to jump towards Ahsoka. Ahsoka waits for Savage to close the gap and swing his axe at her, which she dodges, while hurling sand/dirt into his face, scoring a direct hit. It causes no real damage but he is thrown off for a moment, which Kenobi, now arriving with Maul hot on his heels, disrupts his arm, however the arrival of Maul prevents him from claiming the axe. The vibroaxe drops from his fingers. Possibities here: 1. Savage quickly grabs it with his other hand. His ability to use it one handed is somewhat limited 2. Ahsoka grabs (physically or TK) the vibroaxe, though probably wouldn't be very effective with it. 3. Maul TKs the vibroaxe to himself. This would leave him open to a counterattack from Kenobi however. 4. Fisto arrives and TKs the axe to himself. ...fight continues with goal of Jedi to escape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDutchman Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Before I way in I have a question why are we using TPM maul and not TCW maul.Wouldn't TCW be his prime? just a guess, but probably some attempt at balance. Otherwise we'd have Rebels Ahsoka, and this would be a VERY different conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 (edited) So Kenobi outclassed in H2H? ***** please... Kenobi is a master unarmed combatant: http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_large/11115/111155790/4930433-kenobiabilities.jpg Padawan Kenobi oneshots a Tae-Jitsu Master: http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11126/111265303/4926063-valor+one+shots+buck.png After days of torture AotC Kenobi defeats 2 merc: http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11126/111265303/4928071-valor+tortured+and+uses+unarmed+combat.png AotC Kenobi is beating Jango who killed jedi with his hands: http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11126/111265303/4928067-valor+kenobi+kicks+jango.gif TCW Kenobi beats a 4armed brute: http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11126/111265303/4929547-fourarms+1.png http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11126/111265303/4929548-fourarms+2.png http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11126/111265303/4929550-fourarms+3.png http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11126/111265303/4929551-fourarms+4.png RotS Kenobi beats Grievous in a mix of H2H and armed combat: He event bent his arm: But Obi-Wan's arm had the Force to give it strength, and the general's arm only had the innate crystalline intermolecular structure of duranium alloy. Grievous' forearm bent like a cheap spoon. —Revenge of the Sith novel Also TCW Maul is hardly untouchable in H2H combat: http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111137054/4251960-star+wars+-+the+clone+wars+-+the+sith+hunters+071.jpg http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111137054/4251965-darth+maul+bruu+jun+fan.jpg And TCW Kenobi can even tank the killing blow from above: Not to mention that TPM Maul doesn't have access to those legs... Yes he is outclassed, Obi-Wan has done nothing that Maul couldn't replicate or do better and Maul knows far more martial art combat compared to Obi-Wan. Also that 1st quote says that Obi-Wan is trained in 1 form of unarmed fighting and says nothing about mastery in unarmed combat. By age 13 Maul had mastered numerous martial arts. Edited February 5, 2016 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted February 5, 2016 Author Share Posted February 5, 2016 just a guess, but probably some attempt at balance. Otherwise we'd have Rebels Ahsoka, and this would be a VERY different conversation.This essentially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted February 5, 2016 Author Share Posted February 5, 2016 RotS Kenobi beats Grievous in a mix of H2H and armed combat: That's a decent showing actually, considering he was able to survive 30 seconds of unarmed combat against Grievous. Do we really have proof that Maul could kill him so quickly? Kenobi is quite durable, and intelligent. Also TCW Maul is hardly untouchable in H2H combat: http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111137054/4251960-star+wars+-+the+clone+wars+-+the+sith+hunters+071.jpg http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111137054/4251965-darth+maul+bruu+jun+fan.jpgWell that's hardly the best example, as said Jedi was the best martial artist the Jedi Order had. Though evidently not as tough as Kenobi.And no, Savage can't just TK her at will, his TK was a blindside move that disrupted her plans, but still caused no actual damage. She was able to shield herself from the effects, and thus her force barrier is clearly stronger than Savage TK ability.Well that was just my narrative, it can't be actually used as a feat and shouldn't be considered wholly accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDutchman Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Also, how close are they to the outer ring (source of high ground) or the cornucopia? If Fisto arrives, it could tip the fight somewhat in favour of the Jedi, which could free up one of them (probably Ahsoka) for making a cornucopia run to grab some vibroblades/swords for the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDutchman Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 (edited) Well that was just my narrative, it can't be actually used as a feat and shouldn't be considered wholly accurate. True, but I don't think the two of them have ever met, so we just have to guess, and I don't think Ahsoka was ever outright TKed by people like Ventress, so we can surmise she is quite capable in that regard. EDIT: also, in the fight vs Barriss, notice how Barriss never targets Ahsoka directly with TK until Ahsoka is nearly unconscious with exhaustion. Edited February 5, 2016 by MadDutchman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 (edited) That's a decent showing actually, considering he was able to survive 30 seconds of unarmed combat against Grievous. Do we really have proof that Maul could kill him so quickly? Kenobi is quite durable, and intelligent. Targeting weak areas of the body? http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11111/111114474/4141783-martial+skill.jpg Edited February 5, 2016 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted February 5, 2016 Author Share Posted February 5, 2016 Savage is a brute, Ahsoka could dodge him quite easily, and use terrain to her advantage.I wouldn't say easily, Adi Gallia and Master Halsey managed limited evasion of his attacks, but he remains quite fast and agile. A few examples: http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11117/111179633/4625057-savage+disarms+jedi.gif http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11117/111179633/4625081-savage+dodges+ventress.gif http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11117/111179633/4625058-savage+dispatches+halsey.gif Ahsoka is certainly more agile than him, but she's still going to be push to her limit, and will suffer some blows.Also, how close are they to the outer ring (source of high ground) or the cornucopia? If Fisto arrives, it could tip the fight somewhat in favour of the Jedi, which could free up one of them (probably Ahsoka) for making a cornucopia run to grab some vibroblades/swords for the others.Well the staircase leading to the upper level is likely 10, 20 meters away, as is the Cornucopia. The Cornucopia is going to be crawling with dangerous adversaries as well though, so in a battered state it wouldn't be smart. If Fisto arrives their best strategy would probably be to cut their losses and retreat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PadsterPwns Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Also, how close are they to the outer ring (source of high ground) or the cornucopia? If Fisto arrives, it could tip the fight somewhat in favour of the Jedi, which could free up one of them (probably Ahsoka) for making a cornucopia run to grab some vibroblades/swords for the others. That's assuming Fisto doesn't already have a weapon that he can give to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 (edited) Also lol calling Savage a brute when that's clearly not the case, seeing as he's fought Jedi council members and having mastered the double bladed saber(along with Nightbrother/sister weaponry), showing Cho Mai which is clear evidence of lightsaber mastery. He's hardly just a brute if he's able to do all of this. Edited February 5, 2016 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted February 5, 2016 Author Share Posted February 5, 2016 Targeting weak areas of the body? http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11111/111114474/4141783-martial+skill.jpgPotentially? But look at his fight with Grievous, he endures several blows to the body from an inhumanely strong cyborg without so much as a scratch to show for it, despite being repeatedly smashed in the face, and gets back up every time. And at the end of it, he isn't even out of breath. Note also receiving a kick to the stomach from Maul that has killed lesser opponents. He's inhumanely durable, we shouldn't assume he'd succumb to these kinds of tactics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDutchman Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Also lol calling Savage a brute when that's clearly not the case, seeing as he's fought Jedi council members and having mastered the double bladed saber(along with Nightbrother/sister weaponry), showing Cho Mai which is clear evidence of lightsaber mastery. He's hardly just a brute if he's able to do all of this. Brute doesn't mean he isn't very dangerous, it just implies his fighting style and lack of intellect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 (edited) Potentially? But look at his fight with Grievous, he endures several blows to the body from an inhumanely strong cyborg without so much as a scratch to show for it, despite being repeatedly smashed in the face, and gets back up every time. And at the end of it, he isn't even out of breath. Note also receiving a kick to the stomach from Maul that has killed lesser opponents. He's inhumanely durable, we shouldn't assume he'd succumb to these kinds of tactics. Enduring blows is all well and good, but targeting key vitals is something different entirely. Obi-Wan hasn't tanked getting hit at the windpipe or any pressure points on his body. He might be able to power through it sure, but even still Maul has him beat in H2H combat. Edited February 5, 2016 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDutchman Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 That's assuming Fisto doesn't already have a weapon that he can give to them. This is true, if he has to pass through the cornucopia to get to them, grabbing a couple vibroblades would be very smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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