A very sad day, My guild is leaving swtor.

[FerkWork]

Expecting others to keep paying and playing to help others sounds a bit selfish to me. If they aren't having fun anymore there is no reason for them to be expected to stay just because it makes you feel all warm and squishy inside. It is their money, their time, and most importantly their choice on how they use those.

 

That and it sets new people up for dissapointment at this rate. If BW doesn't plan on releasing new Ops ever then the point becomes moot as I can actively predict then the cycle of new people wanting to raid and its duration until they unsub in dissapointment of completing all content and having no new content to do. And it would be extremely limited. But sigh

Edited January 2, 2016 by FerkWork

[Lord_Sleepy]

That and it sets new people up for dissapointment at this rate. If BW doesn't plan on releasing new Ops ever then the point becomes moot as I can actively predict then the cycle of new people wanting to raid and its duration until they unsub in dissapointment of completing all content and having no new content to do. And it would be extremely limited. But sigh

 

I can understand your point there also, even though raiding isn't my personal idea of fun, they really need to rethink the whole "downsizing" thing, I have worked at places that downsized and it always goes the same way, you cut employees, you can produce less, you produce less customers get dissatisfied and begin to go to your competitors, you downsize more, lose more customers and eventually close. Worked in 2 plants that followed that same course. They should look at why they are losing customers, then instead of cutting budgets, work to fix those. It may be a money loss situation over the short term, but end up as a profitable venture in the end.

 

My opinion of course.

[Khevar]

Sounds a bit selfish ... What about the others ? Why doesn't your guild teach other players ?

 

<yada yada yada>

Many guilds absolutely spend time teaching other players. The more players that are good at ops, the easier it is to get a group together.

 

HOWEVER, this is predicated on the desire to actually run said ops. This desire has been impacted not only by the lack of new ops, but also by changes to how ops are being handled (e.g. "featured" EV/KP 224 gear, NM being retooled primarily for vanity titles / drops while removing NM EV/KP vanity titles, vague mentions of possible future content without any followup communication, etc).

 

Surely you wouldn't expect people to play a game that is no longer fun for them? For the sole purpose of "teaching others"?

Edited January 2, 2016 by Khevar

[dscount]

Sounds a bit selfish ... What about the others ? Why doesn't your guild teach other players ?

 

And that applies to any guild that leaves : They are only thinking about themselves. Being highly cynical here : Zorz left because they couldn't teach other players ?

 

In a way that't not the spirit of an MMO ... Okay, everybody says : "Well, it's an MMO, people are *mreant to* group up with others !"

 

But then, these groups act selfish, too : THey leave as soon as they have beaten everything - and take their knowledge with them, that's not the sharing aspect of an MMO ...

 

Or do they find mentoring other players across the planets boring , too ? Mentoring isn't a challenge great enough than a NIM challenge, and because of that they leave ?

 

NIM challenges are challenges about reflexes, speed, DPS races, about mechanics, in the end.

Teaching fresh human Newbies is a completely different kind of challenge.

 

lol - I at first thought this was a troll. Are you serious? Who said Zorz left because of that? Go look it up and that is NOT why they left. Both DNT and Zorz pulled the plug before 4.0 even dropped. And it was NOT because they had nobody to teach.. LOL

 

Why should they pay into a carebear model of single player RPG when it's been for the most part a REAL MMO for the longest time. They saw what was coming and said no thanks in advance. Many others wanted to wait it out and see if the storm blew over and BW came to its senses. Right now.. Storm is going to go for I'm willing to bet 10 months of 2016 and then have a change of direction. (IMHO).

 

I'm not giving BW/EA another penny until I see something solid delivered. I'll wait until 16 chapters are done and a new operation is on the table and sub for a month to check it all out.

[FerkWork]

Ops forums is dead besides some random threads about Tacticals 2 stronk pls nerf. No threads or videos about Operation bosses. When I got to Server forums it's all posts about Guilds recruiting but just for general stuff. No progression team clear or vids. No progression threads. No teams recruiting. I miss when DnT did State of the Galaxy. I miss talented people played on my server/game.

 

>TfW never know feeling of competing for server first because no new ops

> Joy of downing content unnerfed

> Chance at unique stuff as reward for hardest content

> Feelsbadman.png

[DreadtechSavant]

What every guild member? seems unlikely unless its made up of 2-3 players.

[TheLordMagnus]

its sad but true

funny thing is I paid 15 bucks for 2 years worth of content and was done in 3 days story wize

they could have got more money out of me as I wanted to buy the xpacs but was greeted with you must sub.

 

Loved the story but nothing about any of the new content had any challenge at all

[WorldSmasher]

I've seen entire guilds move to other games before, usually when the game got so radically redesigned that it died. Didn't KOTOR get so radically redesigned that it died? When whole guilds leave, or once prosperous guilds decline, becoming husks of their former glorious versions - because of the game - that cannot be a good sign.

[Gaspodia]

I finished the entire KOTFE story (9 chapters) in one evening and finished all the alerts\star forts in day or two.. it was rather easy.

 

Also had full 7 part tokes set bonus in less then 2 weeks, full pvp set in week and pretty much nothing left to do...

 

As a guild we used to do world events together, to tackle hm operations (which are piss easy now) and try out new ops.

 

MMO content is generally not designed to be consumed at this speed OP. While you can spacebar your way through them, the KOTFE chapters are designed to be savored as immersive story content, with the fighting elements acting as a break. This is the opposite of operations content, where the fight sections form the main content and the story elements are there for flavour.

 

How you play the game is entirely up to you of course; not all aspects of an MMO will appeal to all players. But in terms of design, I don't think any MMO will be able to cater for the rate at which you choose to consume content.

 

My own experiences have been different (lots of new and returning guild members, all but one find the new structure and content to be an improvement on what we had before), but this in no way negates your own findings and experiences. The dynamics of each guild are different after all.

 

I hope you and your fellow guild members find what you are looking for in another MMO.

[WorldSmasher]

MMO content is generally not designed to be consumed at this speed OP. While you can spacebar your way through them, the KOTFE chapters are designed to be savored as immersive story content, with the fighting elements acting as a break. This is the opposite of operations content, where the fight sections form the main content and the story elements are there for flavour.

 

How you play the game is entirely up to you of course; not all aspects of an MMO will appeal to all players. But in terms of design, I don't think any MMO will be able to cater for the rate at which you choose to consume content.

 

My own experiences have been different (lots of new and returning guild members, all but one find the new structure and content to be an improvement on what we had before), but this in no way negates your own findings and experiences. The dynamics of each guild are different after all.

 

I hope you and your fellow guild members find what you are looking for in another MMO.

 

I was expecting a story, sure, and I liked the story, mostly. But I wasn't expecting a story with hardly any game play, followed by a long campaign of grinding the same content over and over and over again.

[FerkWork]

MMO content is generally not designed to be consumed at this speed OP. While you can spacebar your way through them, the KOTFE chapters are designed to be savored as immersive story content, with the fighting elements acting as a break. This is the opposite of operations content, where the fight sections form the main content and the story elements are there for flavour.

 

How you play the game is entirely up to you of course; not all aspects of an MMO will appeal to all players. But in terms of design, I don't think any MMO will be able to cater for the rate at which you choose to consume content.

 

My own experiences have been different (lots of new and returning guild members, all but one find the new structure and content to be an improvement on what we had before), but this in no way negates your own findings and experiences. The dynamics of each guild are different after all.

 

I hope you and your fellow guild members find what you are looking for in another MMO.

 

>Calling KotFE MMO

> Calling it Lots of Content

> Being paid this much by BW

 

10/10 would kek again

[MillionsKNives]

MMO content is generally not designed to be consumed at this speed OP. While you can spacebar your way through them, the KOTFE chapters are designed to be savored as immersive story content, with the fighting elements acting as a break. This is the opposite of operations content, where the fight sections form the main content and the story elements are there for flavour.

 

At what speed should the content be cleared? Even if you're slow, the entire KOTFE story content can be cleared in just 2 - 3 days. It only represents a few hours of play time (more like a few minutes of play time, and hours of watching time). It also only took me a few days to complete all of the companion recruitment missions when I actually bothered to do it. So all of the meaningful content they added in KOTFE represents maybe most of a week?

[Transcendent]

NIM challenges are challenges about reflexes, speed, DPS races, about mechanics, in the end.

Teaching fresh human Newbies is a completely different kind of challenge.

 

I think you're missing the mark slightly. Especially in regards to what the OP is saying about KotFE. I mean, why would a guild continue to run operations in their current state, with no new operations due for however long it is. As much as grouping up with guild mates is fun, there is only so much old content that can keep the established players playing for a period of time.

 

KotFE is all about the solo play, and even that isn't much cop.

 

Ora, I hope you all find a new MMO with new challenges, I'm moving off back to RPG games from the 15th (Diablo Season 5 ), and various other games due out (library full of Steam sale games / Humble bundle games to play). You've already had my stuff

[Gaspodia]

At what speed should the content be cleared? Even if you're slow, the entire KOTFE story content can be cleared in just 2 - 3 days. It only represents a few hours of play time (more like a few minutes of play time, and hours of watching time). It also only took me a few days to complete all of the companion recruitment missions when I actually bothered to do it. So all of the meaningful content they added in KOTFE represents maybe most of a week?

 

2-3 days sounds about right, so 2-3 days of this content per character (though I expect most people won't be running more than a couple of characters through on each faction) of additional new content, plus 6 star fortresses and the alliance system is a fair bit of brand new content. If you add in the revamp of older content through level synch and QOL changes like the heroics terminal plus the new rewards for completing them that are linked into the alliance system, level-synched flashpoints, frequent and regular events (when they work!) - these all add up to a lot of things to do...if you choose to do them.

 

I've cleared all the old ops many times over pre 4.0 but have found the revamps of the older ones in particular to be a nice challenge level for my guild mates; we have a lot more of our members joining in with ops and they seem to be finding them to be fun. We've also had a lot of returning players who have been able to step right back in without going through a daunting gear grind first. These are changes I welcome.

 

Of course there have been several changes that I personally found unnecessary or even jarring - I do think too many of the mechanics were removed in some of the story mode operations for example. But I'd take that any day over losing the resurgence of renewed interest in operations that I've seen in our guild members.

 

I think the main issue people seem to have with the new content in TOR is that there is an expectation that it should suffice on its own until the next update. I can't think of a single MMO I have played where that has been the case though; new content is always a supplement to the core content, of which a large proportion has to be repeatable in a linear theme park style MMO like TOR. This is quite different to something like EQ2, where there are 6k+ quests and you don't have to follow a particular path (like class stories).

 

TOR was never designed (or advertised) to be that kind of MMO though. It's main strength is its accessibility for people who are Star Wars fans and not necessarily traditional MMO players and I think it has always struggled a bit to include a full range of end game activity in addition to the highly immersive story content that it excels in.

[MillionsKNives]

2-3 days sounds about right, so 2-3 days of this content per character (though I expect most people won't be running more than a couple of characters through on each faction) of additional new content, plus 6 star fortresses and the alliance system is a fair bit of brand new content. If you add in the revamp of older content through level synch and QOL changes like the heroics terminal plus the new rewards for completing them that are linked into the alliance system, level-synched flashpoints, frequent and regular events (when they work!) - these all add up to a lot of things to do...if you choose to do them.

 

2-3 days if you're excessively slow. A portion of an evening if you don't stand around artificially extending the play time. It has no replayability. I did it twice, and even though I was going with the opposite responses, I had to force myself to do it. It's just playing the same story over again. It's like buying a kind of decent movie and watching it, then immediately rewatching the movie again. Who does that?

 

I think the main issue people seem to have with the new content in TOR is that there is an expectation that it should suffice on its own until the next update. I can't think of a single MMO I have played where that has been the case though; new content is always a supplement to the core content, of which a large proportion has to be repeatable in a linear theme park style MMO like TOR. This is quite different to something like EQ2, where there are 6k+ quests and you don't have to follow a particular path (like class stories).

 

When the "core content" you're supposed to be playing is all over a year old then of course people are going to complain. If you're going to expect people to play other parts of the game then you need to give them something to do. Old operations, old heroics, old dailies, old stories, old pvp. Oh boy, I can't wait to grind all those for another year before anything actually interesting comes out.

 

TOR was never designed (or advertised) to be that kind of MMO though. It's main strength is its accessibility for people who are Star Wars fans and not necessarily traditional MMO players and I think it has always struggled a bit to include a full range of end game activity in addition to the highly immersive story content that it excels in.

 

At least it was advertised as an MMO, which BioWare seems to be forgetting as of late. Seeing as they're completely ignoring everything that isn't a single player RPG. Up until their release of Oricon they've had a pretty darn good cadence of operations. They came out frequently enough that unless you were running through them at lightning speed you'd have something to keep you going, and even if you managed to beat all of the current operations you could look forward to something new within a few months. After Oricon it's been an absolute crawl.

 

PVP hasn't received anything substantial in years. GSF hasn't been updated since shortly after it launched. There are no true new flashpoints to do, and the old ones have basically been rendered useless in the current gearing system; there's pretty much no reason to run them anymore. Those heroics that we're supposed to be grinding by the hundreds, are content that I've done since launch. Not only that but they've actually removed a lot of the unique rewards from most of this content. Flashpoints and heroics had unique gear as drops that no longer appear. The low level PVP vendors are gone too, along with all of the other equipment vendors.

 

So exactly what "core content" is the game supposed to be relying on right now? Unless you're a new player any of the stuff you're supposed to be having fun with outside of the KOTFE movie is old and has long past lost its luster.

[Joesixxpack]

MMO content is generally not designed to be consumed at this speed OP. While you can spacebar your way through them, the KOTFE chapters are designed to be savored as immersive story content, with the fighting elements acting as a break. This is the opposite of operations content, where the fight sections form the main content and the story elements are there for flavour.

 

 

So my not spacebarring still wasn't good enough then eh? I should've paused for 1 hr increments between each of the 8 million cut scenes to savor them like some chick in a decadent chocolate yogurt commercial?

Edited January 5, 2016 by Joesixxpack

[TUXs]

MMO content is generally not designed to be consumed at this speed OP.

Says who? You? I finished KOTFE the 1st day myself, watched EVERY cutscene as well...took me 5-1/2 hours. I didn't skip, I didn't rush...I enjoyed and got sucked in.

 

Since NOTHING of KOTFE is repeatable except the Star Fortress, I would say you are 100% mistaken...it WAS meant to be completed at EXACTLY that speed...5-6 hours of content, that's it. The "alerts" all took under an hour to complete as well. Maybe what you meant is "traditional MMO content" isn't meant to be completed at that speed?

Edited January 5, 2016 by TUXs

[Maxarmstrong]

NO! that is enough of those greedy posts...

 

I have established the first swtor goodwill store. as people leave, they can send me all their credits and stuff and I will distribute it to new players. you can trust me....really

 

lol. That's original and I really did chuckle at that.

 

Sorry to see your guild leave, Opie.

[DomiSotto]

I prefer the current state of affairs where I, the very average player, can run every SM Operation, trying different characters, instead of spending my time on wiping on the Underlurker ad infinitum. I can now even work my way up to the HMs maybe.

 

I understand that there are plenty of players that found the old ops easy and breathed through the UL each and every time. I cleared it 4 times and only in guild runs, and wiped so many times, I started to develop a PTSD. That basically locked the gear away too, that one idiotic boss of only 2 ops that were relevant for almost a year.

 

I love it that every Op can now be done on level 50+, by a group with a good lead, and even if you wipe sometimes you still get to finish it eventually. The availability of gear and increased success rate reduces pressure in the groups, and the runs are that much more pleasant when people don't harbor resentments and argue or yell at someone who did not make that awful cross.

Edited January 5, 2016 by DomiSotto

[Lendul]

News Alert!

 

"People that binge play run out of content". More at 10

[TUXs]

News Alert!

 

"People that binge play run out of content". More at 10

NEWS ALERT! Even those who don't have finished it.

 

Who had to binge? It was only a 5 hour story...how long did kotfe take you? Do you only play for like less than 15min at a time, each week? Cuz that's literally how slow you would need to play to not have finished it yet.

[Joesixxpack]

News Alert!

 

"People that binge play run out of content". More at 10

 

I did it in about 1 hr blocks. Only took a few days. Couldn't have done it any slower without logging off more often.

 

News Alert! Your post is bogus.

[Transcendent]

I prefer the current state of affairs where I, the very average player, can run every SM Operation, trying different characters, instead of spending my time on wiping on the Underlurker ad infinitum. I can now even work my way up to the HMs maybe.

 

Counterpoint to this. Pre 4.0 state of affairs was far more fun.

 

I preferred to WAIT a whole expansion, and play the "new" operations 5 levels above their set level. On any character geared enough to do so, at any particular difficulty setting. Instead of wiping on whatever ad infinitum.

 

Now?

 

Not a chance in hell of chasing those achievements or unique mounts, or seeing if the earlier operations are now able to be two manned. Joyful, more content I can no longer really participate in due to some form of Level Sync.

Unless of course I like wiping ad infinitum.

[Lendul]

I did it in about 1 hr blocks. Only took a few days. Couldn't have done it any slower without logging off more often.

 

News Alert! Your post is bogus.

If you have cleared every operation on the highest difficulty and have every achievement in the game while playing in 1 hour blocks then I earnestly salute your skill. If that statement is not true however then it is not Bioware that has limited your available content it is you.

[TUXs]

If you have cleared every operation on the highest difficulty and have every achievement in the game while playing in 1 hour blocks then I earnestly salute your skill. If that statement is not true however then it is not Bioware that has limited your available content it is you.

What the hell do operations have to do with KOTFE? There weren't any new Ops in KOTFE...in fact, there was NO new repeatable content in KOTFE...what the hell are you going on about Ops for?