MeNaCe-NZ Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Fair enough, next time you speed 1 mile over the speed limit, lets just break your legs and burn your house down, fair enough? If that was actually a possible punishment you face from doing it would you speed 1 mile over the limit? Unlike the real world where we have set consequences for breaching of set rules this is BW's world and they can act anyway they like against those that cheat. I personally am 100% behind their wholesale removal of anything that could be connected to the exploit to shown laundered accounts or cheating accounts because it saves them wasting time trying to sort out which items are legit or not ... easier just to say too bad, you cheated, we'll remove it all and move on to looking at the next account. There is no reason for them to waste anytime trying to protect cheaters from using items that may or may not have been legit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 You need to go back and read it again... More than 500 were permabanned... Thousands and thousands got temp bans... So by your logic, anyone who cheats even $1 dollar on their taxes should have everything they own taken away, kicked to the street naked, and have the scarlet letter branded on their forehead? Heh I love how you keep relating a fictional world that Bioware completely controls with real world set consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 You need to go back and read it again... More than 500 were permabanned... Thousands and thousands got temp bans... Where do you get this info? Wait, I know, you're just making it all up. So by your logic, anyone who cheats even $1 dollar on their taxes should have everything they own taken away, kicked to the street naked, and have the scarlet letter branded on their forehead? As noted, taxes != SWTOR. Advance the inapt internet analogy counter by 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnAskham Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 (edited) When a Hunter goes out and bags that beautiful 8 or 9 point buck and field dresses it. As he does, so he thinks about the head being mounted on his wall above his fire place. As he thinks about getting that 300 lbs carcass processed and how much meat that will be when its all said and done. He foolishly doesn't see the Game Warden about 45 feet away watching with his hand cuffs out. As he thinks how this dumb SOB is going to loose his Hunting gear. His Hunting licensed, as well his Truck he came into those woods in. Plus thousands of dollars in fines. And after all that depending on the state one lives, as well as The Game and Wildlife Poaching laws & Regulations of that state, can even take your house. Oh yeah and you can still get jail time on top of all that. Harsh punishment yes. But after decades of Pouching and the normal slap on the wrist doesn't seem to stop it from happening, then a more server action is needed and is well warranted. People have no one else to blame for something like, Haunting out of season. Knowing the penalties and what can happen to them. That goes with ANYTHING IN LIFE. For every action there is a opposite re-action. Especially when one is doing WRONG! This goes for People exploiting a game and taking gain from, said exploitation. If people get banned from this, THEY HAVE NO ONE ELSE TO BLAME BUT THEM SELVES! Take Care and Be Well. Sadly your analogy fails. Had that warden been Bioware, they would have stood there watching poachers come and go for weeks without action, all the while ignoring reports from honest hunters about the poaching problem, and only would have put down the donuts and taken action after a local TV station ran a spot on the 11 o'clock news about the all the poaching going on. Should exploiters have all ill-gotten items removed? Yes. Should we expect our 'warden' to do a better job preventing 'poaching' in the first place? Yes. Edited December 13, 2015 by DawnAskham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neglience Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 (edited) I bet those guys who want a lax punishment over the exploit are affected by the punishments somehow and are trying now to bring things in a better perspective for themselfs. Like that darkside guy who indirectly admitted he was punished, Edited December 13, 2015 by Neglience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XiamaraSimi Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 (edited) I bet those guys who want a lax punishment over the exploit are affected by the punishments somehow and are trying now to bring things in a better perspective for themselfs. Like that darkside guy who indirectly admitted he was punished, Thats what you cant help thinking after a while. "No no Bioware, dont be harsh, "my brother" only exploited a little... please dont take "my brothers" stuff!" Edited December 13, 2015 by XiamaraSimi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cakellene Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Gotta quote this twice. Neither will trying to sell a SP RPG as an MMO... It worked for 4 years though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TX_Angel Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Yes, that is fair punishment. Don't cheat - a great msg to send. Except, it doesn't work... The "tough on crime" thing really, really doesn't work. It "feels" good, but it actually is ineffective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Except, it doesn't work... The "tough on crime" thing really, really doesn't work. It "feels" good, but it actually is ineffective. Right, but cheating in a computer game is nothing close to a "crime." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TX_Angel Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Heh I love how you keep relating a fictional world that Bioware completely controls with real world set consequences. So I don't have to keep paying for my sub, and I get to keep my sub benefits? This "fictional world" you keep referring to has a real connection to the real world. It is called money, the real kind, the sort that pays for food, shelter, and office rent for BW. But sure, burn it all down, who cares, it is only all their jobs and their career, what difference does it make if the game closes tomorrow, right? Take two steps back and consider that for a min. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TX_Angel Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Where do you get this info? Wait, I know, you're just making it all up. As noted, taxes != SWTOR. Advance the inapt internet analogy counter by 1. Eric posted it, that is the source... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neglience Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 (edited) So I don't have to keep paying for my sub, and I get to keep my sub benefits? This "fictional world" you keep referring to has a real connection to the real world. It is called money, the real kind, the sort that pays for food, shelter, and office rent for BW. But sure, burn it all down, who cares, it is only all their jobs and their career, what difference does it make if the game closes tomorrow, right? Take two steps back and consider that for a min. You are right. If it makes the round that BW caters exploiters with lax treatments a lot of legit players will leave. This might be odd for you, but a normal player does not want to play with cheaters. Edited December 13, 2015 by Neglience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TX_Angel Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Thats what you cant help thinking after a while. "No no Bioware, dont be harsh, "my brother" only exploited a little... please dont take "my brothers" stuff!" Don't be silly, of COURSE your bother should lose his stuff, if he exploited. But if he posted companion gifts to the GTN, and I bought them, I shouldn't lose them because I wasn't part of it. He should lose the credits I paid him, but I should keep what I bought. I haven't lost anything, I haven't been punished, because I didn't do anything. I'm simply trying to be the voice of reason here among those who would burn the house down because it needs new paint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokimogor Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Right, but cheating in a computer game is nothing close to a "crime." Actually it can be, especially when rl $$ is involved. Virtual goods do have a rl $$. There's a fair amount of legal precedent in that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neglience Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Don't be silly, of COURSE your bother should lose his stuff, if he exploited. But if he posted companion gifts to the GTN, and I bought them, I shouldn't lose them because I wasn't part of it. He should lose the credits I paid him, but I should keep what I bought. I haven't lost anything, I haven't been punished, because I didn't do anything. I'm simply trying to be the voice of reason here among those who would burn the house down because it needs new paint. If it is a normal trade sure. If it was just a try to launder exploited credits and BW can prove it, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TX_Angel Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 You are right. If it makes the round that BW caters exploiters with lax treatments a lot of legit players will leave. This might be odd for you, but a normal player does not want to play with cheaters. Based on what some people are posting here, Bioware should permaban anyone who so much as touched anything that was part of the exploit. Traded, bought, sold, anything. I think you would be rather shocked how many players would vanish if they did that. The exploit existed long enough that enough stuff entered the economy tainted, you might end up banning a quarter of the player base. Do you think the game would survive that? Do you think a "normal player" would want to play a game where innocent people were banned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TX_Angel Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 If it is a normal trade sure. If it was just a try to launder exploited credits and BW can prove it, no. There have been multiple posts here saying that the exploited items purchased should be removed as well, even among the innocent. Multiple posts have also come from people who claim just that has happened. My point is that Bioware has to be careful not to catch the innocent in the dragnet. Of course some people need to be banned, anyone who made a billion credits and sold them to credit sellers of course should be outright banned. But there are multiple calls here for ANYONE who exploited, ANYTHING at all, to be banned, and some people are calling for the removal of stuff from anyone who even touched the exploited stuff, regardless if they knew or not. That is way too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sentientomega Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 And, for all we know, these Judge Roy Beans touched that stuff themselves, yet never knew it. Unless you know the seller exploited, no way are you going to know their goods are crooked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allamirr Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 There have been multiple posts here saying that the exploited items purchased should be removed as well, even among the innocent. Multiple posts have also come from people who claim just that has happened. My point is that Bioware has to be careful not to catch the innocent in the dragnet. Of course some people need to be banned, anyone who made a billion credits and sold them to credit sellers of course should be outright banned. But there are multiple calls here for ANYONE who exploited, ANYTHING at all, to be banned, and some people are calling for the removal of stuff from anyone who even touched the exploited stuff, regardless if they knew or not. That is way too much. The people that are wanting everyone, innocent or otherwise, banned and every item taken away from them. Know darn well the chaos that would cause in game. This exploit affected most everyone, especially anyone who bought or sold tainted items or even gave away tainted items to friends etc.. without ever knowing they were tainted in the first place. What do you think would happen if most people in game all of a sudden lost items, people have sent in tickets complaining over lesser things lol. The CS would be flooded with angry tickets, not to mention all the subs that would cancel as a result. No corporation in their right mind is gonna piss off that many people, they are only gonna focus on the people that actually did the exploit. Why do you think they are asking people to tell them of anything they feel is tainted. Instead of just going after them out right without asking. Laundering is much much harder to catch, and they have to go about it very delicately with a scalpel and not go smashing every account willy nilly with a sludge hammer. Its easy for all of us to go the mob rules/destroy everything route, but bioware is a for profit business with an even bigger overlord EA watching over their shoulder. They can not afford to go that route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XiamaraSimi Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 (edited) I didnt know the details of the exploit til near the end, but when i started seeing multiple stacks of consumables/event items on the GTN, common sense told me something fishy was going on, and to stay away from it. Rather like a guy with a van full of BluRay players offering to sell you one for $20 is fishy. If its too good to be true, it usually is, and buyer beware on those deals of a lifetime... Edited December 13, 2015 by XiamaraSimi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sentientomega Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 (edited) I didnt know the details of the exploit til near the end, but when i started seeing multiple stacks of consumables/event items on the GTN, common sense told me something fishy was going on, and to stay away from it. Rather like a guy with a van full of BluRay players offering to sell you one for $20 is fishy. If its too good to be true, it usually is, and buyer beware on those deals of a lifetime... BW:A mentioned companion gifts (stackable items, they said), what else was being duplicated and how? Once the Gree event is over, I'm going to check my 100+ characters' inboxes for anything that shouldn't be there; surely, if there's anything there it'll still be there in 2 days' time for me to find and PM Eric Musco about, as he invited us to do. I didn't know of this exploit until I saw the post BW:A made, stating they'd fixed it; I mean, I thought the temple chair exploit was a thing of the past. And yet, dulfy says that this exploit was in since 4.0. So, why did it take them so long to fix something that should've been top-priority? Incidentally, the pants business is almost over, I've only my EH warriors and agents to sort out, no more risque Vectors, Lokins, Pierces, or Quinns, after the final lot of sorting. Pity... As for Scourge, I think he's got 19th century underwear (Long Johns, I think they're called); when I saw his leggings were missing, at first I didn't notice the difference. Edited December 14, 2015 by sentientomega Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFDebris Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 BW:A mentioned companion gifts (stackable items, they said), what else was being duplicated and how? Apparently if you bought a stack of something, you could then sell back each individual item for the entire stack's value. So if something cost eight Bounty tokens and you bought 99, you could return each for the amount you paid for the whole stack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allamirr Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Since when can you buy Bounty tokens off vendors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFDebris Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 You buy something that costs 8 bounty tokens (or whatever they're called) and buy say 5, for forty bounty tokens total. You then return one of them, but get back all 40 tokens instead of 8. Return all of them one by one, and you're now up 160 tokens. Keep going and you can get whole stacks for each transaction. Again, that's my understanding of how the exploit worked, so anything that can be bought and returned could be exploited, hence the reason that credits and tokens (and things bought with those) are being confiscated as part of the overall punishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sentientomega Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 (edited) Aren't those things you're talking about stackable, though? Aren't stackable goods the only ones you can buy multiple samples of in a single vendor transaction? Anything I refunded to a vendor (item mods, yes, in a tired state, I can buy the wrong one sometimes) are not stackable, so I noticed nothing I hadn't noticed since I started playing the game two years ago. Also, what from the event vendors is stackable? I mean, I get this creepy feeling from having been in contact with an exploit vendor, and unaware of it; talk about a ticking time bomb... Edited December 14, 2015 by sentientomega Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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