Companions need to differ

[Muljo_Stpho]

If you want to see more variety in companions, I'd suggest requesting more variation in the animations of abilities, more combat phrases for them to say, and more ability to customize the appearance of the new companions, as those are more likely to garner dev support.

 

Yeah, this touches upon the core of it. The movesets that companions had before? Stripped almost entirely out of the game to be replaced with cookie cutter movesets that only differ for melee vs ranged, force vs tech, and for certain weapon types. Which makes all companions feel pretty much identical to each other (or to all the ones in the same weapon category, at least).

 

They preserved a couple things, like Lokin's rakghoul form and Tharan's use of Holiday, as animation differences. And Hk-51 and Treek got to keep unique movesets different from any others (even if HK is missing the one move that people loved most and Treek's healing abilities have been segregated out from her other abilities).

 

So what would be nice is if every companion could gain 1-2 abilities that would be totally unique to them and they possess those unique abilities alongside whichever cookie cutter set of role-based abilities they've got. Give every companion something that they can do which you won't see any other companion doing. Not just as an animation difference on the standardized movesets (although those differences are nice too). Something that's obvious and upfront about being different.

 

Maybe for the former healing companion's it's an extra healing move, for the former DPS companions it's an extra damage move, and for the former tank companions it's an extra crowd control move (proper instant stuns that last for 5 seconds or however long, not those channeled stuns that companions usually get which keep them occupied for that time as well).

 

These things would mix up how each different companion feels in each role. Whatever role a companion is assigned into, they'd have something hidden up their sleeves which is unique to their pre-4.0 identity. Former healers would turn into tanks and DPS that can occasionally throw out a strong heal. Former DPS would turn into tanks and healers that can occasionally throw out a strong attack. Former tanks would turn into DPS and healers that can occasionally throw out a nice stun (which doesn't keep them busy as well).

 

I don't know if that idea would push their performance to extremes in the "correct" roles and I'd actually agree that it would not be ideal for it to make a large difference. But that would all depend on how they balance out the values and cooldowns on the unique moves. Ideally different variations may appeal to the preferred playstyle of certain players and it shouldn't matter if the number crunchers deduce that a specific variation performs that tiny bit better than the others.

 

This is all said with old companions in mind, but of course the new companions should also have something unique about them. They should all get something neat that they can do outside of the standardized moveset, something that you won't see from any other companion.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Muljo_Stpho

[LordJestR]

Don't care either way but what is with people that thinks they can request for a mmo to be tailor made to their every whim and fancy. And why post this on General? There is already a suggestion box for armchair developers to present their stupid ideas.

[Morthion]

Multiple stances would be of convenience -if I wanna quest with Qyzen, and there is this very difficult mission (I hope there will be one somewhere in the game) I switch him to healing stance. He heals me, but not as good as Lokin would have. But still enough so our characters may survive.

 

Then what's the difference?

 

Either one will let you live where another will not -- and thus be the only real choice -- or both will let you live, just one means you have to spend a brief half a second healing up after a fight.

 

Likewise with a tank companion. Either one will survive where the other will not -- again meaning there's only one real candidate -- or else both will survive.

 

Personally, I like the freedom of bringing whoever I want for whatever role I choose. It could be because I like the look of the companion, or because I downright hate the default companion for the role (Skadge and Kaliyo win some awards, here), or because I've never really been able to have them around because of previous companion role limitations.

[branmakmuffin]

IMO tank companions should be able to heal in healing stance, but they should be worse at this than healing companions.

There should be primary roles, for example

 

Qyzen -tank

Lokin -healer

You want Qyzen to be your tank? Put him in tank stance. You want Lokin to be your healer? Put him in heal stance. I want the flexibility to have any companion out I want, not the one I "need" to have in order to have the role I want filled.

 

/thread

[publicenemies]

hk 51 is what im most pissed about a store bought comp and now hes no different then the ship droid? screw that why would i want hk 55 if hes the same as welll? its all pointless why i didnt bother much with this stupid alliance garbage

[Shirvington]

Companions just need different animations for similar abilities to give them more flavor. Different names, different animations for similar type abilities.

 

The unique/rare companions should be just as effective as the normal companions, not better, but have different skillsets of abilities which may make them better suited under certain circumstances. (Single target tanking, dot/aoe damage, aoe healing) for some fun flavor. It was disappointing seeing all the companions of a certain range have super similar abilities.

[LordFell]

There is already a fair amount of difference, in that a force user with a lightsaber has a different collection of abilities than a companion with a blaster.

 

However, I still think we've got some room for some differentiation. The way companions look is important, and being able to customize this look even more so. Look. There goes Lana Beniko. Oh look. There she is again. And over there. Oh wow. It's Theron Shan. And there, too. And more of him, just over there. Gotta get these companions costume slots, and some different face options.

 

As far as abilities, I think what I would like to see is that most of a companions abilities come from a certain pool, based on what sort of companion they are (Tech Melee, Tech Ranged, Force Melee, Force Ranged) and what role they are placed in. However, I'd like to see certain companions, especially classic companions get their own "calling card" abilities.

 

For example, Gus Tuno always carried a lightsaber, although he is a Ranged Tech companion. His classic role was as a Healer. I'd like to see him have, in all possible roles a Leg Slash (light saber) ability, and since his "classic" role was Healing, a Med Scan ability. Or, despite being a Tank and using a Shield, Kaliyo Djannis always seemed to have a Scattergun and Grenades handy.

[BlazeTomahawk]

I do think hk-51 should have some kind of bonus, I mean, many of us went through the a long process to get him. He should have a better dps than most other companions. Only dps. His heal and tank should be the same as others, because that's not what a hunter/killer droid was built for Edited December 4, 2015 by BlazeTomahawk

[WDreamer]

Was there different abilities / animations between Nadia and Kira pre 4.0? I know there was different animations for Nadia and Ashara (even though they are both force melee dps), so I'd like to have them differentiated in 4.0 as well.

[Taemien]

I still don't understand the desire to have complex companions. The content you use them in is simple, straight forward, and more story than gameplay or mechanics. That tells me their combat ability is well.. not a priority as much as their appearance and overall tone they bring. Shouldn't we be more worried about what they are wearing and how they sound when they speak? You're going to see them more often in a cutscene than notice them in combat.

 

If they were treated as pets in Flashpoints or Raids, rather than occupying a player slot, we'd be having a different discussion.

[jstankaroslo]

So, most of you that think they need to differ are more for different animations or different set of abilities.

That would be cool

 

I hope something like this will happen in some of the future updates.

 

Or, after the nerf/unnerf rage BW treats possible changes to companions as a hornets' hive and will not touch it ever

[Dawnblabe]

There is a little button that lets you set your companion to heals, dps or tank. It makes your companions different. It is up to you to pick your play style

[jstankaroslo]

There is a little button that lets you set your companion to heals, dps or tank. It makes your companions different. It is up to you to pick your play style

 

yeah, well there is also that little button that lets you summon any companion you want. It's up to you to choose your companion

[Haruen]

They do need to differ more, just like they used to but since that would require more work it's not going to happen.

 

HK is now just as generic as Risha.

Blizz is just as generic as some other blaster rifle user.

 

I find them all boring now. There just fodder to get things done. I choose one and the other 22 can collect dust.

 

Pretty much this. They really each, all of them, give something as a reason to pick them. Even if that is still cosmetic.

[Morthion]

Pretty much this. They really each, all of them, give something as a reason to pick them. Even if that is still cosmetic.

 

Looks and voice no longer count as cosmetic . . . ?

[ShepardSpock]

The companions do differ in their "playstyle". For example, Lana is Melee, Nico is ranged.

 

And? Then all we need is two companions. Lana and Nico.

 

Still won't get hyped over another companion now.

[branmakmuffin]

And? Then all we need is two companions. Lana and Nico.

 

Still won't get hyped over another companion now.

Plus 4 generic crafting droids.

[KrazieFox]

I like the new companion system. I do NOT want to be gimped simply because my favourite companion cannot do the job as well as one I really hate.

 

For example I hate Malavai Quinn, Doc, Lokin, Cedrax, Tuno, Drellik, ... the ONLY healers I liked & ran with was Elara & Mako. I hate Vik, Bodaar, Fess, Pierce, Blizz, Khem ... ... thus, for Healing and Tanking on those classes I HAD to use Treek ...

 

My favourite characters are - Elara Dorn, Risha, T7, Kira Carsen, Nadia Grell, Mako, Vette, Jaessa, Ashara, Kaliyo, Raina Temple ... <- THESE are the companions I run with now - these are the ONLY (Original) Companions I wanted to run with - but most I could never use, because it did not fit my playstyle - for example, I really like the character of Vette, but my Juggernauts usually ran with a Healer ... Treek could fill two roles, so she was the one I ended up using.

 

My Juggernauts now run with Vette - she used to be dps - I do NOT want her healing abilities Gimped because of that, else I would once again have to run with Treek. My Guardians can now happily run with Kira, whether I use her for dps or healing ... I LIKE THIS SYSTEM ...

[Ferretfur]

I like the new companion system. I do NOT want to be gimped simply because my favourite companion cannot do the job as well as one I really hate.

 

... I LIKE THIS SYSTEM ...

 

Pretty much of the same opinion. I hated having to use Guss or Treek as a healer companion with my Smuggler as I found them both really annoying. I wanted to run with Risha (his wife) and now I can.

 

I love that they are all equal (well mostly equal) no matter the role. I have wanted this for such a long time, and now it is here...and its great.

 

Of course, an occasional different skill here and there to set them apart (like what HK and Treek used to have), then fine, but I'd not want to see Guss being better than Risha or Senya who I want as my healer companion (as an example).

 

They are all different in appearance and voices at least.

Edited December 4, 2015 by Ferretfur

[KrazieFox]

They are all different in appearance and voices at least.

 

... and personalities ... the sassy Vette, the 'by-the-book' Dorn, the eager young Temple ...

[SirUrza]

BioWare made the change in response to Treek being the end-all-be-all companion and the complaints that she was the best.

 

The new system allows you to use any companion without hampering yourself now and that's fine.

 

What isn't fine is the mounting evidence that SOME HOW some companions are actually better then others.

Edited December 4, 2015 by SirUrza

[Raphael_diSanto]

I love the new companion system. I shouldn't be penalized, mechanically because of a narrative choice I make. The game's focus is on story and characters. The fact that my sage can run around with Talos and have him tank for her is fantastic. I have always thought that Talos would be a perfect fit, personality wise, for Talos - A far better fit than my actual inquisitor was - And my first inquisitor was a tank assassin, so mechanically, he was a perfect fit for Talos' healing.

 

Mechanically, yes. Personality-wise, absolutely not.

 

I care little for mechanics when I'm playing a narrative and character based game. I only care that the characters that I'm forcing to group together don't hate each other.

 

With 4.0/KoTFE:

 

My Sage can use Talos as her meatshield

My Warrior can use Pierce as her combat medic

My Scoundrel can hide behind Akaavi and not need Corso or Bowdaar - Although since he went through KoTFE, he's taken a liking to Leyta since Akaavi isn't available.

etc etc

 

It means that starting Guardians can actually have a healing companion before chapter 2, or starting Mercenaries have someone to hide behind before Hoth. Seriously. They made a healer class wait until halfway through chapter 2 before giving them a tank (Although Blizz is an awesome character, certainly)

 

It means that starting Assassins aren't trying to run around with Khem doing the awful damage he did in DPS mode until they finally pick up Talos on on Hoth. That's 35 levels without a healer. For a game that's supposed to be about story, that's ridiculous. Getting Talos on Hoth is fine. It makes sense, storywise, for him to be there. But making him the ONLY real healer (2V was pretty crappy, frankly) an Assassin had access to was a piss poor mechanical design decision.

 

I could go on. There's more examples of how trinity mechanics clashed with story and story suffered for it. But I'm not going to bother. I'm sure you guys can think of them all anyway

 

I'm just going to say that I'm glad that for once, mechanics clashed with story and story won.

[Raphael_diSanto]

... and personalities ... the sassy Vette, the 'by-the-book' Dorn, the eager young Temple ...

 

I completely agree.

 

Unfortunately, game mechanics-types don't care about companion personalities (or appearance or voice actually) To them, the game's just a set of numbers. It's sad, really. They're missing out on the one real thing that makes games different from each other.

 

All games are nothing but sets of numbers, at the end of the day. It's the cover you put over the numbers that makes the difference.

Edited December 4, 2015 by Raphael_diSanto

[SootyTX]

I like most changes that came with KotFE

 

that being said, I like them to change the way companions work a bit.

 

I understand the concept of not gearing up companions and multiple roles.

Thing is that it makes all the companions the same. The influence level -well it does not influence them that much.

It is cool that we can have a Gormak companion, or Nautolan, but they not need to be equally good in all the roles.

 

The way it is now it is hard to have favorite companions. They don't talk, they don't give us missions, they heal/kill the same.

 

IMO tank companions should be able to heal in healing stance, but they should be worse at this than healing companions.

There should be primary roles, for example

 

Qyzen -tank

Lokin -healer

 

Multiple stances would be of convenience -if I wanna quest with Qyzen, and there is this very difficult mission (I hope there will be one somewhere in the game) I switch him to healing stance. He heals me, but not as good as Lokin would have. But still enough so our characters may survive.

 

This would make them a bit unique. Because right now, especially Alliance Specialists (companions we get for destroying Star Fortresses) seem all the same

 

good idea/bad idea

/thoughts?

 

No, because this totally eliminates the point of making all companions equal in combat terms.

 

They are still different in every way that matters for RP/story purposes. The entire point of the change that came with KotFE is to allow players to choose based on the companion's personality, not on a required role. All your proposal does is reduce or eliminate that option without adding anyrhing at all.

 

There seems to be a fundamental lack of understanding when posters say "all companions are the same now" - they simply don't get the purpose of the change or that what they appear to want is to restrict other players' options 'just because'.

[Raphael_diSanto]

There's, generally speaking, three types of gamers - narrative, simulationist and gamist. People tend to be a mixture of the three, some leaning one way some leaning others. Obviously there are others who are extreme one side or the other. I lean very heavily narrativist, for example. ( no surprise there)

 

The people who don't like this companion change because they claim it makes them all the same tend to be simulationist or gamist. To them, the mechanics are the important part. The numbers, the stats, and now, all the companions are mechanically identical - Ignoring the bugs that are obviously in the system for some of them, heh.

 

To a narrativist like myself, the stats of a companion are unimportant, as is their role in combat. The only reason narrativists even think about what role a companion is or should be is because the game forces it upon us. To us, the companions now are as different and individual as they were before, because they all have different voices, different personalities. They're different people. Senya is not Veeroa who is not Kaliyo who is not Raina. Iresso is not Quinn who is not Theron who is not Tharan.

 

Simulationists (and gamists, to a certain extent, although most gamists don't care either way) don't tend to care about those things though. All they see are the numbers and they tend to think about narrativists as people who like to play dress up with virtual dolls.

 

Except that in this case, it looks like BioWare's decided that it's future lies in pleasing those of us who like playing dress up with virtual dolls.

 

Que sera, sera.

Edited December 4, 2015 by Raphael_diSanto