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Guild numbers prove interesting in the wake of 4.0/4.01/4.02

xordevoreaux

By xordevoreaux
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xordevoreaux

xordevoreaux

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Posted

I play an MMO class called "guild administrator". I have 5 guilds: light/dark on Shadowlands, light/dark on Bergeren Colony, and a dark-side guild on Ebon Hawk (but that one doesn't count, I'm not investing time in it and there's only 2 of us in it).

 

So.

 

Every day, when I log onto 3 of the guilds, I write down the number of members and the number of qualifying accounts (preferred or subscriber, which increases the %xp and %reputation boost).

 

By keeping track of the guild numbers, I can track attrition, and subsequently, whether I am going to spend my time running heroics or must I sit there crafting/decorating the stronghold while guild spamming.

Life of a guild leader.

 

On any given day, across the guilds, I'll note that perhaps one, maybe two members leave, and this is quite ordinary. People delete their toons, find a guild more suitable to their tastes, etc. Perfectly normal churn (people joining/leaving) in the course of the guild's life cycle.

 

Below is what I consider to be ordinary churn, nothing to get worried or excited about, where the first number is members, second number is accounts. Remember, of the five, I'm only tracking these 3 guilds:

 

Guild #1: (Shadowlands Light side)

Nov 27 - 303/173 (303 members, 173 qualifying accounts)

Nov 28 - 302/173 (someone probably deleted an alt - doesn't even qualify as churn/turnover)

Nov 29 - 301/170 (two accounts unsubbed but stayed in the guild, and one account quit)

 

Guild #2: (Shadowlands Dark Side)

Nov 27 - 186/127 (186 members, 127 qualifying accounts)

Nov 28 - 187/126 (one account left, someone created an alt or an FTP joined).

Nov 29 - 188/127 (nice quiet day)

 

Not normal for that same time frame (Nov 29 is really a distraction, so look at Nov 27 versus Nov 28).

Guild #3 (Bergeren Colony Light Side)

Nov 27 - 207/132 (207 members, 132 qualifying accounts)

Nov 28 - 208/124 (an alt was created, and 8 accounts unsubbed but stayed in the guild.)

Nov 29 - 199/123 (I scrubbed a bunch of inactive FTPs. You know by the qualifying accounts - barely moved).

 

Guild #3 is showing a large drop in subscriptions, but it got worse as the week went on, and not just there. I didn't track Guild #1 on Nov 30/Dec 1, didn't log into it, but I still have data points for Guild #2 and #3.

 

Guild #2:

Nov 29 - 188/127 (188 members, 127 qualifying accounts, repeated from above so you can see movement).

Nov 30 - 188/127 (Nice! I'll go do heroics)

Dec 01 - 188/119 (Relatively HUGE number of people cancelling their subscriptions but staying in the guild)

 

I was really surprised from that drop, only because it wasn't what I usually saw. Yes, I instantly attributed the drop to the see-saw effect of 4.0/40.1/40.2

 

Guild #3:

Nov 29 - 199/123 (199 members after I scrubbed a bunch of FTPs, 123 qualifying accounts)

Nov 30 - 202/124 (one account added, someone created an alt or two. Ordinary.)

Nov 30 - 202/117 (just a few hours after I originally checked, and WOW -- look at the subscribers drop!)

Dec 01 - 208/117 (bunch of FTPs joined).

 

So I have details to backup claims that subscribers are fleeing. I had seen on the forums where people were claiming that their subscriber counts were evaporating because of the 4.0/4.0.1/4.0.2 changes, but hadn't really seen any change myself until the last couple of days. I wouldn't go so far as to say "evaporating" in the case of my guilds, but definitely, subscriber counts hit a pothole.

 

Anyway, I just found it interesting and wanted to share.

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twpotter

twpotter

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Posted

I am an AGM of one of the largest guilds Max 500 since pre KotFE on the Progenitor.

 

We have seen 0% loss of subs or members since 4.0 dropped, in fact its been hard work getting members to remove alts so new people can join.

 

Only my opinion, but I wouldn't be in a guild where i find the GM moonlighting other guilds.

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xordevoreaux

xordevoreaux

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All members of all guilds are welcome to join the other guilds, and they know, because I tell them, that I'm elsewhere when I'm elsewhere. I'll be on BC light side and say "Okay, I'll be on Shadowlands if anyone needs me."

 

All 400+ members across all my guilds share the same teamspeak channel, with each guild having its own sub-channel. I'm even on teamspeak when on Harbinger where my vacation toons are.

Each guild's web site links to all of the sites of the other guilds in a web ring.

 

Where I am at any given time is no secret, and all summer, the populations across the guilds have been stable or have increased despite people knowing their guild leader is all over the map.

 

On 11/27, one guild had 173 accounts, back on 10/17, that same guild had 87 accounts, so me being here or there has made no difference to my members.

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Tuskenkiller

Tuskenkiller

Posted
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I play an MMO class called "guild administrator". I have 5 guilds: light/dark on Shadowlands, light/dark on Bergeren Colony, and a dark-side guild on Ebon Hawk (but that one doesn't count, I'm not investing time in it and there's only 2 of us in it).

 

So.

 

Every day, when I log onto 3 of the guilds, I write down the number of members and the number of qualifying accounts (preferred or subscriber, which increases the %xp and %reputation boost).

 

By keeping track of the guild numbers, I can track attrition, and subsequently, whether I am going to spend my time running heroics or must I sit there crafting/decorating the stronghold while guild spamming.

Life of a guild leader.

 

On any given day, across the guilds, I'll note that perhaps one, maybe two members leave, and this is quite ordinary. People delete their toons, find a guild more suitable to their tastes, etc. Perfectly normal churn (people joining/leaving) in the course of the guild's life cycle.

 

Below is what I consider to be ordinary churn, nothing to get worried or excited about, where the first number is members, second number is accounts. Remember, of the five, I'm only tracking these 3 guilds:

 

Guild #1: (Shadowlands Light side)

Nov 27 - 303/173 (303 members, 173 qualifying accounts)

Nov 28 - 302/173 (someone probably deleted an alt - doesn't even qualify as churn/turnover)

Nov 29 - 301/170 (two accounts unsubbed but stayed in the guild, and one account quit)

 

Guild #2: (Shadowlands Dark Side)

Nov 27 - 186/127 (186 members, 127 qualifying accounts)

Nov 28 - 187/126 (one account left, someone created an alt or an FTP joined).

Nov 29 - 188/127 (nice quiet day)

 

Not normal for that same time frame (Nov 29 is really a distraction, so look at Nov 27 versus Nov 28).

Guild #3 (Bergeren Colony Light Side)

Nov 27 - 207/132 (207 members, 132 qualifying accounts)

Nov 28 - 208/124 (an alt was created, and 8 accounts unsubbed but stayed in the guild.)

Nov 29 - 199/123 (I scrubbed a bunch of inactive FTPs. You know by the qualifying accounts - barely moved).

 

Guild #3 is showing a large drop in subscriptions, but it got worse as the week went on, and not just there. I didn't track Guild #1 on Nov 30/Dec 1, didn't log into it, but I still have data points for Guild #2 and #3.

 

Guild #2:

Nov 29 - 188/127 (188 members, 127 qualifying accounts, repeated from above so you can see movement).

Nov 30 - 188/127 (Nice! I'll go do heroics)

Dec 01 - 188/119 (Relatively HUGE number of people cancelling their subscriptions but staying in the guild)

 

I was really surprised from that drop, only because it wasn't what I usually saw. Yes, I instantly attributed the drop to the see-saw effect of 4.0/40.1/40.2

 

Guild #3:

Nov 29 - 199/123 (199 members after I scrubbed a bunch of FTPs, 123 qualifying accounts)

Nov 30 - 202/124 (one account added, someone created an alt or two. Ordinary.)

Nov 30 - 202/117 (just a few hours after I originally checked, and WOW -- look at the subscribers drop!)

Dec 01 - 208/117 (bunch of FTPs joined).

 

So I have details to backup claims that subscribers are fleeing. I had seen on the forums where people were claiming that their subscriber counts were evaporating because of the 4.0/4.0.1/4.0.2 changes, but hadn't really seen any change myself until the last couple of days. I wouldn't go so far as to say "evaporating" in the case of my guilds, but definitely, subscriber counts hit a pothole.

 

Anyway, I just found it interesting and wanted to share.

 

Wow....so you basically play a game where your role is of a stalker? Yeah sure not creepy at all...

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xordevoreaux

xordevoreaux

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Wow....so you basically play a game where your role is of a stalker? Yeah sure not creepy at all...

I'm not seeing how tracking guild metric numbers makes me a stalker, which would be following individuals. I'm attentive to guild numbers, which any guild leader should be.

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Tuskenkiller

Tuskenkiller

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I'm not seeing how tracking guild metric numbers makes me a stalker, which would be following individuals. I'm attentive to guild numbers, which any guild leader should be.

 

So basically you saying its ok to stalk just because you tracking metric numbers?

Yeah try that with the cops....no sir i wasnt stalking,just using high powered binoculars because i really care and tthis tools give me a better view.

 

Attentive to guild numbers? ah how cute we have a little Dustin Hoffman card counting character in our midsts...

Edited by Tuskenkiller
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xordevoreaux

xordevoreaux

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Attentive to guild numbers? ah how cute we have a little Dustin Hoffman characters in our midsts...

 

Tracking numbers is not following an individual. At this point, you're just trolling me and you and your comments are not worthy of further responses than what I've given to you.

Edited by xordevoreaux
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Baraxis

Baraxis

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I'm not seeing how tracking guild metric numbers makes me a stalker, which would be following individuals. I'm attentive to guild numbers, which any guild leader should be.

 

These people seem used to Guild leaders being "cheerleaders." Not actual leaders. What you do is track the actual health of your community, not wake the jocks up so they can go "pwnz noobs" "rofl at da rp'ers" , etc.

Good for you actually caring about the people!

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Tuskenkiller

Tuskenkiller

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Tracking numbers is not following an individual. At this point, you're just trolling me and you and your comments are not worthy of further responses than what I've given to you.

 

Beh...could care less,just another naysayer (Doom and Gloom) that has way to much free time to be messing around with guild number statistics and so on,seriously when was the last time you logged in and just had fun?

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CaptRogue

CaptRogue

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OP,

Ignore the haters. Tracking the numbers of guildies is not stalking or a problem.

Have no idea what these people are on. lol

 

The guild I help with, haven't lost any I can say, but we are a small guild with the same people pretty much playing. It's up to me & two others to actually bring new players in.

But I wouldn't doubt people unsubbing.

 

Do you use a spreadsheet or just write it all down?

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Asroha

Asroha

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I was wondering when someone would crunch the numbers in their own guilds, and the fanboys are true to form, bashing the OP, shooting the messenger...

 

Look, I liked this game, lots of other people did too. KotFE did this game NO favors, and only served to reduce the population further. I truly hope the fanboys that stay to play have others to play the game with in a few months...

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Shirvington

Shirvington

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To the OP, I think you are misunderstanding the qualifying accounts numbers. Unless GMs get more info than members do?

 

1) Unsubbed members become preferred which should still count.

 

2) Qualifying accounts also indicates accounts that have logged in during the last 30 days. So some drop isn't necessarily people unsubbing, but rather not logging in.

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xordevoreaux

xordevoreaux

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To the OP, I think you are misunderstanding the qualifying accounts numbers. Unless GMs get more info than members do?

 

1) Unsubbed members become preferred which should still count.

 

2) Qualifying accounts also indicates accounts that have logged in during the last 30 days. So some drop isn't necessarily people unsubbing, but rather not logging in.

 

Thanks for clarifying. No doubt some drop off from inactivity. I bounce people who have not made it to level 10 in 30 days (it happens) and then do it again for any toon stale more than 60 days who hasn't contacted me to say they'll be away. I've one person being deployed overseas in January and I have [do not remove] in the officer notes next to that person's toon, but that's rare.

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PulseRazor

PulseRazor

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Posted (edited)

So I have details to backup claims that subscribers are fleeing. I had seen on the forums where people were claiming that their subscriber counts were evaporating because of the 4.0/4.0.1/4.0.2 changes, but hadn't really seen any change myself until the last couple of days. I wouldn't go so far as to say "evaporating" in the case of my guilds, but definitely, subscriber counts hit a pothole.

 

Anyway, I just found it interesting and wanted to share.

 

 

You have proof that subscribers are fleeing YOUR guilds, you have no proof that subscribers are fleeing the game.

 

Furthermore, if you are running 5 guilds, I can just imagine the quality of those guilds. Running a quality guild takes a lot from a person, and I don't care who you are or what you say there is no way I will believe that one person can operate 5 guilds successfully, even if you played for 8 hours a day, you couldn't do it to the satisfaction of people who were looking for quality guilds. Perhaps that is why people are leaving, because there are plenty of guilds with leaders dedicated to the success and satisfaction of each one of their members.

Edited by PulseRazor
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Joesixxpack

Joesixxpack

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All GM's are peeps with issues - usually cant cut it in IRL and have daddy issues , I have seen many GM's throw tantrums, etc .. and what not. For crying out loud just play the game and leave stats to fantasy football

 

I've only found one of those in many years, and wasn't like that myself when I ran or co-ran any guilds or clans. Even as a dip**** teenager. Sounds like you just pick crappy guilds or guild leaders.

 

Anyway, interesting stuff OP. Always good to see player-generated info with some qualifiers behind it.

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xordevoreaux

xordevoreaux

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I think someone missed the point of the post:

You have proof that subscribers are fleeing YOUR guilds, you have no proof that subscribers are fleeing the game.

 

Member counts aren't going down, subscriber counts are.

Went from 188/127 one day to 188/119 the next. No one deguilded. They probably hit the 30 day mark for the last time they logged on, as one person noted could have happened.

Edited by xordevoreaux
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CaptRogue

CaptRogue

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To the OP, I think you are misunderstanding the qualifying accounts numbers. Unless GMs get more info than members do?

 

1) Unsubbed members become preferred which should still count.

 

2) Qualifying accounts also indicates accounts that have logged in during the last 30 days. So some drop isn't necessarily people unsubbing, but rather not logging in.

 

1. No preferred accounts don't count. Only Sub accounts count.

2. Logging in has nothing to do with it. It's about the sub that counts. So his numbers are still sound.

 

You can have 200 F2P/Pref & only the 30 sub accounts work. They stay working even if they haven't logged in 30+ days because the system is still reading them as sub.

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TUXs

TUXs

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These people seem used to Guild leaders being "cheerleaders." Not actual leaders. What you do is track the actual health of your community, not wake the jocks up so they can go "pwnz noobs" "rofl at da rp'ers" , etc.

Good for you actually caring about the people!

I agree!!! Good for you OP. You have a solid attitude and great outlook on the way a guild works. Don't let anyone give you **** for paying attention.

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