kotor/Swtor Becoming Canon at some point? what ur thoughts?

[DarthDymond]

Question for anyone in particular: Why are folks so interested in things being/not being canon to the Star Wars story?

 

I really don't get it. It's all fiction. Jaina and Jacen Solo are no longer canon and we probably won't ever see them in a movie, but who cares? Some of the stories that include them were great reads. Same with Mara Jade, Cade Skywalker, Kyle Katarn and the rest.

 

What does having the arbitrary distinction of being "canon" do?

[cross-posting from another thread where the topic came up - so apologies if some of the language / emphases may seem odd, as they were based on that discussion]

 

Does the issue of what is or is not "Canon" matter in the way that war in the Middle East, global climate change, or Asia's volatile economy matter? No, of course not (and to be fair, some fans might benefit from taking a breath and reminding themselves of that from time to time ).

 

But within the context of talking about an entertainment product and its fictional universe? Yeah, it can matter - because the stories told in such a shared universe aren't all self-contained, and once you have story arcs and character development that spans multiple works, then continuity between those works starts to impact how effective that storytelling is.

 

A New Hope told a self-contained story about blowing up the (first) Death Star, but the story of Luke Skywalker growing from "

" whiny farmboy to "you've failed, your highness, I am a Jedi, like my father before me" Jedi Knight was told over all three Original Trilogy movies - and that story only works because Return of the Jedi built on The Empire Strikes Back, which in turn built on A New Hope. And how that story progresses from there depends on the continuity that extends beyond that trilogy - does Luke's arc continue on to becoming Grand Master of the revitalized New Jedi Order as well as a husband and father, or does he become a 'crazy old hermit' and disappear from the galactic stage until he is found by a former stormtrooper and a junkyard girl? (I don't know if that's actually what happens - just throwing it out there as how the trailers kind of make it look to me)

 

What's "Canon" versus what's not matters to the ongoing Star Wars fiction because they aren't continuing any stories from the "Legends" EU (the ongoing story in SWTOR is the only exception at this point).

 

The evolving story of how Princess Leia became a political leader of the New Republic, married Han Solo, had three kids, had to bury two of them, and became a Jedi Knight isn't going to get another chapter added to it (under the current plans). The story of how Princess Leia became "the General" is one that will still be told and will presumably be fleshed out over multiple tie-in novels, comics, etc. The story of how the Imperial Remnant became the Fel Empire isn't going to be told, but the story of where the First Order came from will be.

 

If the Rakata Infinite Empire is part of Canon, then the story of that Empire might continue and evolve in the various works that continue to be put out - as it was in the Dawn of the Jedi comics, for example. If it remains "Legends", then the only stories we will see involving it will be in SWTOR itself.

 

(For the record, I do not think that the appearance of Rakata Prime on a map means that the Infinite Empire is now Canon, let alone the broader KotOR and SWTOR stories as a whole - that's not how it works - I'm just pointing out why the question of whether or not it is, or might become, Canon might matter to the ongoing fictional universe and some fans' potential enjoyment of that universe.)

Edited November 30, 2015 by DarthDymond

[Meraxos]

There is only one thing that Disney is guaranteed to do with Star Wars. They will cram it into the narrow and simplistic Disney model of storytelling and then they will milk it for the absolute maximum short term profits.

 

Disney doesn't give a rat's *** about canon. They may pay a little two-faced lip-service to it just to molify the hardcore fans. All they care about is buying up properties that have become a widely accepted part of popular culture and then figuring out how to make the maximum amount of money by appealing to the broadest market. They don't care about canon because their target audience doesn't care about things like continuity or believability.

 

For an example of what today's movie going audience wants consider that brain-dead, snore-fest Jurassic World. That movie was a massive degradation from the original yet it is the 3rd highest world wide grossing movie of all time. I fully expect the new Star Wars movie to be Jurassic World in space once it get's the full Disney treatment.

[Master-Nala]

@ DarthDymond,

 

That was a very good explanation. Thank you.

[Brewnian]

Question for anyone in particular: Why are folks so interested in things being/not being canon to the Star Wars story?

 

I really don't get it. It's all fiction. Jaina and Jacen Solo are no longer canon and we probably won't ever see them in a movie, but who cares? Some of the stories that include them were great reads. Same with Mara Jade, Cade Skywalker, Kyle Katarn and the rest.

 

What does having the arbitrary distinction of being "canon" do?

 

"Cannon" establishes rules. Imagine if Disney declared that despite what happened in the previous movies, now all Jedis have halos and all Siths have horns. The general public would guffaw and rage and say, "THAT'S NOT STAR WARS!"

 

Cannon allows people to play mental games with fiction and create "what if" scenarios that can be logically answered. Han's Kessel Run mistake comes to mind. It's easy to say, "Lucas made a mistake with Han's boast." but it's more FUN to say Han knew what he was saying and explain it away.

 

When something is cannon, you can expect those events and characters to be referenced in the future. Let's take for example Ben Skywalker. He was in dozens of books. Meticulously developed and groomed, and even shepherded a little by Lucas himself. Now that he's not cannon, we have to wait to see if Luke fathered him or not according to the movie. If, according to the movie, he didn't, then that character is gone. It's not that he won't be in a movie, it's that it's just over. He won't be in anymore books, comics, movies, nada.

 

So yes, we still have the stories he was in to enjoy, but we can't really look forward to his continued journey. It was just a story that was pinched off. When something is declared "cannon" it's sort of a guaranty of consistency.

 

Yes, it's all useless knowledge since it's fiction... but the promise of consistency adds a sort of "reality" to things.

[SlthBounteHuntah]

I hope KotOR and KotOR II become canon, but not any of the OR content after TSL. I enjoy playing TOR, I enjoy the Star Wars theme, but I do not like the stories provided by the books and game.

 

With this, they could also make Revan female, because IMO, female Revan was always way more interesting than male Revan.

[ImmortalLowlife]

...With this, they could also make Revan female, because IMO, female Revan was always way more interesting than male Revan.

 

 

A Female Revan....hmmmm.....

 

"I've been both Jedi and Sith! Destroyer and saviour! Why??? PMS....."

 

ROFLMAO! Sorry....couldn't resist.

[Applejacxs]

i could see them taking a little of here and there from both franchises but full canon i doubt it. I think canon may be to Disney what sell the most to be honest.

[ConVallian]

Quite honestly, I hope swtor NEVER becomes canon. At this point I'm highly disappointed in Disney's "new canon". Most of the novels read like they were written by some first time writer who's trying to convince himself and everyone else that "yes it's a star wars book! See I said wookiee on page 257..."

 

The Crystal Star was better written & more interesting than Aftermath.....

A new dawn was a snooze fest until nearly the end....

Heir to the Jedi was "meh" at best....

Dark disciple and lords of the Sith were both decent....

 

Leave great storytelling to the people at BW, THEY know what they're doing. Leave the "canon" to hacks like Chuck Wendig and the rest of the untalented writers Disney is hiring.

 

*drops mic, ignores new canon books, & continues buying "legends" books.

 

You said basically what i've been saying, the new marvel comics have been great but as far as the new canon novels are concerned it's extremely inferior to previous works. Lords of the Sith i am in the middle of its not to bad, mostly because Kemp has experience in previous SW books, but heir to the jedi boring, aftermath terrible(in my opinion). New Dawn and dark disciple not my cup of tea. Im all for new canon, because personally i thought the OP Luke and other jedi needed retconning their power was to unbelievable for SW,but if you are going retcon what has been "canon" to SW fans for decades replace it with stories just as good or better. I've yet to see a new character come close to being as interesting or even likeable as Thrawn,kyle katarn, mara jade, and the bioware SW characters.

 

Because like you said we've been getting all these new authors that write a boring story,shoehorn OT references, throw STAR WARS on the title. "you see its a star wars book we said leia's name and everything, and there's x-wings" or like you said "See we said wookiee!" its Star Wars!....Now granted im not a big fan of the post RotJ stories, mainly because of how ridiculously powerful luke and jacen was, but i loved the characters they brought us. As far as new television ,Rebels has its moments but i think it should have been a comic series and the Star Wars series of comics should have been the show, but thats just me. You know what sticks when we still talk about Revan's story and how fun a game that was and its over a decade old, its only been about 3 weeks since i finished aftermath and i have not heard hardly anyone talk about it other than to say it was mediocre or ok at best. Really hope Disney takes this first wave of novels as a learning experience and start hiring better writers who not only love Star Wars but can write as well.

[Blackbird]

[When they first announced what they were doing with canon... THAT was NOT CANON at first.. then they changed there mind...

 

I'm not exactly certain I understand what you are saying here correctly, but if I follow correctly, are you suggesting that previous EU material (books/games/etc.) was not canon until after it came out?

 

If that's the case, then I have to disagree. As I understand it, in the days of Lucas, all Star Wars material had to be approved as canon before it was published. This certainly was true for the novels; I believe it also held for at least some of the works in other media such as comic books and video games as well.

 

Well everything that has come out since disney bought star wars in swtor.. has been approved and re written by them if they felt so... i never thought i would say this.. but i think star wars is in good hands with disney...

 

I don't really consider wiping out nearly all of the existing canon stories and characters as having the setting "in good hands". It sets a precedent that canon or not, nothing is permanent, and nothing is safe; what is canon one day could be discarded the next, if that's what brings in short-term profits. With this single act, Disney has made it clear that they are not interested in building a lasting fictional universe; they have no respect for the past or vision for the future, but instead are only interested in the now. With this approach, it will only be a matter of time before Disney films "Star Wars: A New Hope - the remake", and starts all over again.

 

And please, for the sake of everyone's eyes, knock it off with the oversized text.

 

Question for anyone in particular: Why are folks so interested in things being/not being canon to the Star Wars story?

 

I really don't get it. It's all fiction. Jaina and Jacen Solo are no longer canon and we probably won't ever see them in a movie, but who cares? Some of the stories that include them were great reads. Same with Mara Jade, Cade Skywalker, Kyle Katarn and the rest.

 

What does having the arbitrary distinction of being "canon" do?

 

Others have already answered this, but I'll throw in my 0.02 credits. Having established canon provides for continuity, and allows for stories and characters to be built upon and to grow. Being able to do these things allow the opportunity for a simple story to grow into an epic saga. If there is no canon, then stories will contradict each other, and it makes it difficult to improve and grow the tale because there is no longer a common frame of reference for the audience. With an established canon, creators can expect the audience to have a common knowledge of certain events, and that provides a foundation to build upon. And for individuals who come into a story partway and don't have the knowledge of previous events, having established canon makes it easy for them to catch up (as opposed to having to hunt through several different sources and trying to determine which stories the book they are reading uses and which it ignores, and then having to repeat the process every time they pick up a new book). Without canon, there is confusion and discord.

[Foreignobjects]

SWTOR will never be canon . SWTOR will never deserve to be canon.

 

Well... What About the old republic , not swtor, but in canon.. before the prequels. should be canon, what should they do. cause they probably will. I think kylo ren's saber hilt is a very old hilt. ancient sith hilt, also i believe his helmet or part of it. is also a sith relic. who knows. i think in the future they will dive into it... i mention this cause i watch COLLIDER VIDEO , on you tube, they have a weekley show called , "JEDI COUNCIL" you should check it out.. here's the newest one, in one of the previous episodes, they talked several times about what they think will happen with the old republic, but since disney is getting way more involved with the story to be in swtor, that's the only reason i think some part of swtor will become canon or the "new EU" in a way , we don't know what they are going to do.

 

 

Here is a link to the Jedi Council Show on youtube, very good, its a weekley show

 

Edited December 5, 2015 by Foreignobjects

[LoverNoFighter]

I hope not. I'm so glad Disney eradicated the useless fanmade nonsense AKA the EU. Good riddance! Edited December 5, 2015 by LoverNoFighter

[Blackbird]

I hope not. I'm so glad Disney eradicated the useless fanmade nonsense AKA the EU. Good riddance!

 

I was not aware that "professional author written" and "George Lucas approved" constituted "fanmade". You may not have liked the EU, even I didn't care for several of the entries, but in no way can it legitimately be referred to as "fanmade".

 

And even if you have such a low opinion of the EU, what on Earth makes you think that Disney will do any better?

[Pagy]

What do you guys think is gonna happen . when it comes to swtor and canon..?

why does it matter

 

it's all fiction

 

are you really putting this much thought into how fictiony your fiction is?

[BlazeTomahawk]

Star Wars has been around for so long that , like Dr.who, practically everyone writing for it grew up with it. It's all essentially fanfiction.

 

I don't see how Swtor could be canon, because of Kotfe. I just think Disney probably had BW create a story to seperate TOR from canon.

 

And for those wanting Revan to have anything to do with the new movies...HELL NO. If Revan shows up on any form I will swear off Star Wars and pledge my alliegance to be he United Federation of Planets forever.

Edited December 7, 2015 by BlazeTomahawk

[JourrnoRush]

There will be bits and pieces taken. If not in the movies expect some other medium.

 

Give it time

[GalacticKegger]

Not sure about canon which, as was pointed out earlier, is pretty much up for interpretation because of the fan fiction influence. But they are apparently becoming one and the same game. Edited December 7, 2015 by GalacticKegger

[powergamer]

Disney will probably stick with the events after the battle of Yaven and the Skywalker Legacy. I don't see Disney going back 3000 years. Which I'm more than happy with.

[BlueShiftRecall]

I wouldn’t mind it as long as they don’t make every one of the 8 classes in SWTOR canonically male Edited December 7, 2015 by BlueShiftRecall

[Joesixxpack]

It's on the way actually. I watched the interview with her on "Collider Jedi Council" over the weekend.

 

 

What I wanna know is when will Timothy Zahn and Troy Denning write new canon books? Hell....if they'd just allow them to continue with the "Legends" series I'd be happy.

 

I couldn't care less whether TOR goes canon or not, but need to know the answer to ^^^ too. Come on guys serve up some new books pls.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Joesixxpack

[Blackbird]

I couldn't care less whether TOR goes canon or not, but need to know the answer to ^^^ too. Come on guys serve up some new books pls.

 

I doubt that you will ever see anything new (in the SW universe) from Timothy Zahn or any other pre-Disney SW authors. Most authors get attached to their characters, and will want to continue to write about them. Disney has decreed that those characters no longer exist. In order to write about those characters, these authors have to get authorization from Disney. Disney is unlikely to grant authorization for any new "Legends" or otherwise non-canon material, as to do so would have the potential to split their fan base and could detract from Disney's other SW endeavors. The smart move for Disney (from a business perspective) would be to only allow SW works that support their other projects and products. So the only way we are likely to get any new SW material from any of our favorite EU authors would be if they agree to completely eschew their previous creations in favor of working within Disney's new sandbox.

[DishanTheRage]

I couldn't care less whether TOR goes canon or not, but need to know the answer to ^^^ too. Come on guys serve up some new books pls.

No, as said dysney, any game it is not a canon.

Only movie episodes, SW: Clone Wars, SW: Rebels, AND YES LEGO STAR WARS MAN!

"Deserve" to be canon? If quality was a relevant factor in that distinction then half of Dark Horse's comics would be canon and the Prequel Trilogy would not.

Prequel trilogy is not a canon now.

Just look there http://www.starwars.com/databank at species.

There no Zabrak...rly?

Disney idiots :C

[Temeluchus]

No, as said dysney, any game it is not a canon.

Only movie episodes, SW: Clone Wars, SW: Rebels, AND YES LEGO STAR WARS MAN!

 

Prequel trilogy is not a canon now.

Just look there http://www.starwars.com/databank at species.

There no Zabrak...rly?

Disney idiots :C

 

What? The prequel movies are definitely still canon. The very site you are directing people to visit to showcase the lack of Zabrak has species, creatures and characters from the prequels.

[Costello]

The Eternal Empire and the Eternal fleet is just too far fetched for this to ever go Canon.

 

If you take out the fact we now have a group who don't go light or dark but use the force as a tool, damn those sith and jedi are dumb never thinking of that. Or the sheer number of force sensitives are on Zakuul alone in comparison to the number of jedi in the entire republic. If you get past all of that which is a fairly big ask.

 

You are left with the force users who are significantly more powerful than the chosen one or anything portrayed in the movies. Episode 7 is taking thing back to a point where jedi are rare and the force is not all powerful. This is a far cry from an immortal gas cloud emperor who can devour all life on a planet. The rules laid down by the Kofte writing team are so far removed from what can be achieved by the force in the new movies it probably wont even make the legends cut.

[ZanyaCross]

I honestly wouldn't mind if Revan and Bastilla got name-dropped at some point, as long as they kept things vague. I always assumed that was the point of calling the old EU "legends".

[Max_Killjoy]

Why are some people so obsessed with the canon / not-canon thing?