Companion Change Feedback

[Makillda]

Makillda, there was plenty of foot stomping and hand wringing on both sides of the fence.

 

It is always amusing to me how one side paints the other with behavior that their side actively participated in. I guess your opposition shouldn't have a voice, or participate using the same methods, eh?

 

Yes, there was. And, other than ridiculing these obviously stupid suggestions of gimping ourselves because people refused to accept that you needed to progress your character before attempting to solo the H2+ SFs, I did not participate in it.

[RogerApple]

Yes, there was. And, other than ridiculing these obviously stupid suggestions of gimping ourselves because people refused to accept that you needed to progress your character before attempting to solo the H2+ SFs, I did not participate in it.

 

It's not a stupid suggestion. Actually many people who are like you who ..want a ...challenge. Have done it. I asked them why. They said because its more of a challenge. Logically that makes sense. Is it our fault you say one thing and do another. How about this suggestion...dismiss your companion.

[LordArtemis]

Yes, there was. And, other than ridiculing these obviously stupid suggestions of gimping ourselves because people refused to accept that you needed to progress your character before attempting to solo the H2+ SFs, I did not participate in it.

 

Ok, fair enough. it sounded to me like you were insinuating that kind of behavior only came from the pro buff crowd. Perhaps that part was a bit too much, unneeded considering your main point has merit IMO...

 

It IS a bit silly to suggest that folks have to alter the makeup of companions or their use to make the game harder. After all, we all could do that if we stripped naked and fought with our fists.

 

If there were ways to limit the actual stats....like undergearing that folks used to do to present a challenge...that would make more sense IMO.

 

That is why I promote the ability to disable presence/influence. Many folks maxed out characters, holocrons and companion stories before 4.0 hit (unless your comp stories were reset), and therefore had no choice but to accept those bonuses. And in my opinion that is not fair to folks that seek a challenge.

 

I think both sides, casual and hardcore should be treated fairly in this...after all, before 4.0 both were represented IMO. Now, because of level sync one side has to get the shaft.

 

Unfortunately that will likely be hardcore players, since it is highly likely casuals make up the majority of the playerbase.

Edited November 26, 2015 by LordArtemis

[Osogitz]

You want a companion suggestion? Fix the HK companion quest line so it doesnt take a ridiculously LONG time to finish

[Jahor]

It's not a stupid suggestion. Actually many people who are like you who ..want a ...challenge. Have done it. I asked them why. They said because its more of a challenge. Logically that makes sense. Is it our fault you say one thing and do another. How about this suggestion...dismiss your companion.

 

The one who claim to want a challeng do something fundamental wrong! If I check the one who bring this as argument they ALL play with over-geared chars! Like full 220/224 sets @Starbases. And with this total over-geared chars ... well, why the hell do they feel no challenge if they do pre 208 no-set content with 220/224 full set equip?

 

TIP: put ALL your 220/224 items into your bank, get some 192/198 blue gear ... and THEN come back and talk about "challenge" after you finished your full 208 Starbase gear .

 

PS: And for the H2+ missions ... they are designed and balanced around the planets level AND gear. So if you feel overpowert with 65 max gear ... this is NOT a problem of the compenions!! It is a problem of the up-/down-level adjustments!

Maybe BioWare should check how they calculate the down-level from 65 to let's say 30 (and how the companions are handled when down-leveled). Maybe there is a BUG inside the scaling-routins?

Edited November 26, 2015 by Jahor

[FerreusSteelTip]

Not what they were, but are decent again. Am happy

https://youtu.be/OKwZkA4YQag

[Nommaz]

Ok so a disclaimer before I start lol, many of you are aware I was very vocal in opposing the recent nerf, and I am genuinely happy they listened to people are buffed the companions, however...

 

I honestly feel the heals buff went a bit to far, I watched a player send their Lana in to fight an elite and run off to get another mob, and sure enough after a longish fight Lana healed herself and defeated the Elite (correlia), one of the big droids.

I though that was interesting as I had never tried it, so I sent my inf level 18 in to do the same thing.

Whilst a bit slower he did the same thing, my level 3 however could not.

 

Maybe a tweek to the influence levels rather then the companions themselves

I am not talk about "challenge, or tedium etc, but a healing companion should not be able to solo an elite at the same level...

[Jahor]

Maybe a tweek to the influence levels rather then the companions themselves

 

NO!

A global influence tweek would hit all of them. Heal, tank and DPS.

While heal is strong again ... tank and DPS are still underpowert! So a global influence tweek would hit tank+dps form much harder then the healing form.

 

NO GLOBAL changes until healing, tanking and DPSing performs so differently!!

[sentientomega]

But, for something like Star Fortresses, it should be challenging for a player with a high influence/presence companion, not a 30-40 minute grind through trash. Halve the time. Get rid of most of the trash and design more difficult encounters.

 

I've never done the SF H2+s, but it would be interesting, to have more and/or complicated fight mechanics.

 

Character level 65. Sorceress Healer spec-ted. Needs strong DPS or Tank Companion. Right now Companions do not manage enough damage to complete some boss fights. Example. Manaan-Cyborg Stivastine 4 minute time limit.

The requirement is not possible to complete with a healing Sorc because the DPS companion takes all the Argro and it is not possible to draw the Cyborg into the flames that destroy the shield.

In order to complete this mission I had to respect to lightening. With the respected lightning Sorc the flashpoint could be completed relative easily. This shows that things are not level even within one class. Please provide an option that allows for such differences in classes.

I understand that you can not test possible each and every class and player stile. So there (in my opinion) must be a relative large margin in companion abilities. In other world... make the companions powerful and provide an option for those who wish less powerful companions to have these.... or do it the other way around. the present companion gift option is... well, substandard, me thinks.

 

I discovered a similar problem, the solution is quite simple; stick companion on passive, lead the companion away, and in doing so, lead the boss away, into the flames, and then take them off passive.

 

You need only do that 3-4 times, as the fire damages them for about 25% each time.

 

About dps companion abilities though, I don't think BW:A took rail shot/high-impact bolt into account when they added new dps companion periodic damage. I cannot use them on my commando and mercenary healers when companions deal periodic damage. Rail shot/high-impact bolt are supposed to work as follows:

 

"Only usable against incapacitated targets" and "targets suffering from periodic damage."

 

Well, dps companions' periodic damage isn't registering as giving the green light to rail shot/high-impact bolt.

Edited November 26, 2015 by sentientomega

[nimmerstil]

I'd be happy to. Do you know a good free screen capture software I can run to get the grab?

 

Open Broadcaster Software

 

If you have an Intel processor supporting Quicksync you can grav with minimal to no loss to framerate.

[nimmerstil]

At no point did I say that I wasn't. I did point out that there was no effort needed. It is that part that is the issue if BioWare is to be believed on their goals for content balance.

You could always do that with the GSI droid in tow, even completely solo. That's not your companion being OP, it's the GSI droid.

 

Which would require even more balance testing on BW's behalf which they've proven they are incapable of doing. .... Of course this assumes it's not stupid easy at base influence also.

It's supposed to be playable by a beginning player, with no experience, no legacy boons and little influence.

 

Heroics weren't ( and aren't ) story stuff as far as I'm aware.

They're required to gain influence with your Alliance, which will affect story.

Edited November 26, 2015 by nimmerstil

[Jahor]

It's supposed to be playable by a beginning player, with no experience, no legacy boons and little influence.

That's my point.

 

Companions must be strong enough to be used by a fresh char on a fresh account.

NO overgearing.

NO perfect rotation.

NO full set of 8 hero moment abilitys.

Your level is below or fit the current content.

If all this is true, THEN it should be challenging but doable!

 

If you're overgeared + level 65 + 100% know all your abilitys + have 4 or more hero abilitys ... then you should be able to do any H2 content alone while sleeping .

 

Heroic H2 Starbases should be challenging ,,, but with the FP-buff, good gear and some playerskill it should be doable in less then 1 hour as Healer or Tank (the endboss curently can take alot of time with low DPS specs!).

 

AND all 3 compenion types (heal, tank, dps) must be equal usefull ... which is NOT the case atm!

[Elysith]

About all the regular [Heroic 2+], I did not care much about companion efficiency before the "nerf", after the "nerf" and after the last update. It was easy content to do for me regardless of the state of companions.

So I can't really comment further than that.

 

What I was however sad after the nerf, was the kind of unusefulness against the Exarch of the "nerfed" companions when entering Heroic Fortress just by myself .

The trash enemies until the Exarch were still easy enough, with a bit of difficulty during the 2 Knights of Zakull fight if I had no CC on the current class I was playing, but the companions could die with few Exarch hits, and could hardly keep up with the healing even when using Interrupt and dodging AOE.

It had becoming more like a chore to do HM SF to unlock new companions than looking forward to do it.

 

Now with the last companion update, I'm enjoying "soloing" the Heroic Fortress again and I'm all happy about that

Edited November 26, 2015 by Elysith

[DarenLoot]

I think you are majorly confused. I have cleared this up several, several times. However for you. I will do so again. If you believe there is "challenging" content then you are just sorely mistaken or used to playing very easy games. That's an illusion in your mind or like I mentioned just used to playing very very easy games. It's time consuming. Making the companion heal less. It only takes longer, much much longer to get through the mob of trash. It's not more "challenging" at all.

 

I'll get through the mobs of content. It will just take me longer. It requires no special skill to press a few buttons. I could do so randomly and likely still get through the content. It's just much much longer. Why you want to punish people to drag out content that shouldn't be so much of a grind is past me. Why you want to force people o go through content that is likely something they have repeated several times. It's just more of a grind. Like I mentioned before. Most if not all this content is actually able to do solo. There's very little that requires a group. A flash point or PVP most you can't even use your companions unless you are doing it solo without any groups.

 

One thing I don't get about what you said is how are hear companions make you storm faster through content? I mean if you were talking about other roles for your companion like dps or even tank, their effectiveness could improve your walkthrough time by killing the mobs faster or grouping them so that you can kill them faster without the need to kite or being able to use backstabs which increase your overall dmg output. But healers don't contribute at all in making fights faster, only keep you alive, so if you can do the content the right way with your lower version of heals, if you rise the healing output of your companion shouldn't affect your walkthrought time, only lowers the difficulty of the battle since you don't need to pay attention to all the stuff like using dcds effectively or killing enemies in the right order or, stepping out of aoe, etc., cause you're being healed back for your mistakes...

Edited November 26, 2015 by DarenLoot

[Ferretfur]

I honestly feel the heals buff went a bit to far, I watched a player send their Lana in to fight an elite and run off to get another mob, and sure enough after a longish fight Lana healed herself and defeated the Elite (correlia), one of the big droids.

I though that was interesting as I had never tried it, so I sent my inf level 18 in to do the same thing.

Whilst a bit slower he did the same thing, my level 3 however could not.

 

When I have set my companion to attack (when in healer stance), they have never managed to kill an elite target before I clean up the trash and then go help, in fact I still pretty much have to do all the work.

 

If I send them to kill the trash, then yes, sometimes they kill them off for me. Of course if you set them to DPS and ask them to kill an elite for you, they sometimes do finish them off before I get to them, but then they are on DPS mode and its what they are meant to be doing.

 

Generally I am pretty happy at with the recent changes.

Edited November 26, 2015 by Ferretfur

[Isnogut]

Were there recently changes made for the healing output? I wonder, because, since the latest server downtime and serverfix, Vette heal output was inhanced to quite acceptable.

 

Before that she only healed under 300 hp per HOT, now it moved to 600 hp for a 39 lvl char with an affection of 28. What ever you did, it helped, because most H2+ are now quite ok coming to time-consuming and overall balancing rotation errors in my gameplay. Either I have got along with the nerf, or BioWare did something. Either way, seems I can live with it.

 

Good news, huh? ...well at least for me.

[nimmerstil]

Of course if you set them to DPS and ask them to kill an elite for you, they sometimes do finish them off before I get to them, but then they are on DPS mode and its what they are meant to be doing.

 

There are groups of two elites in Dromund Kaas H2 Possessed Hunter. If I let Lana kill one eliye and take the other one down myself, Lana as DPS, my PC as healer, then currently we kill them in about the same time. Before the recent buff Lana would have hers down to 30-50% when my healer killed the other one. Definitely an improvement and in my opinion a dps companion doing the same damage as a healer pc is in no way OP.

Edited November 26, 2015 by nimmerstil

[LordArtemis]

All I know is that I died twice, two separate H2+ on Taris, both from stupid mistakes I made. As it should be.

 

In 4.0 I had some insurance against mistakes, though death still happened a few times. In 4.0.2 that insurance evaporated. Now, if I make mistakes I die....again, as it should be.

 

Some of the fights were a bit challenging, and to be honest it was fun. Not too hard, not too easy.

 

At least for me they have hit very close to the sweet spot.

[sentientomega]

All I know is that I died twice, two separate H2+ on Taris, both from stupid mistakes I made. As it should be.

 

In 4.0 I had some insurance against mistakes, though death still happened a few times. In 4.0.2 that insurance evaporated. Now, if I make mistakes I die....again, as it should be.

 

Some of the fights were a bit challenging, and to be honest it was fun. Not too hard, not too easy.

 

At least for me they have hit very close to the sweet spot.

 

This is good, it works quite well actually now, it seems.

 

On Tat, I was genuinely in fear for my commando healer's life. On Voss and Makeb, the same for my vanguard "tank".

Edited November 26, 2015 by sentientomega

[AdarnVote]

I've noticed since the patch to revert some of the nerf that my companions are performing much better then they were; it seems that Bioware's come close to striking a good balance, at least for a basement dwelling loaner like me.

[LordArtemis]

This is good, it works quite well actually now, it seems.

 

On Tat, I was genuinely in fear for my commando healer's life. On Voss and Makeb, the same for my vanguard "tank".

 

Yes, but they are still powerful enough to be fun without them being TOO powerful so as to not require engagement. I have found that I actually like that.

 

I still wish I could truly leave my companion behind and run solo (like I did all the time when I outleveled content), but I can accept that loss for the rewards I receive.

[sentientomega]

Yes, but they are still powerful enough to be fun without them being TOO powerful so as to not require engagement. I have found that I actually like that.

 

I still wish I could truly leave my companion behind and run solo (like I did all the time when I outleveled content), but I can accept that loss for the rewards I receive.

 

That's what I meant, I'm not disengaged; 4.0 I could tell I wouldn't be too hooked on the companion strength, although they don't heal as well as 4.0, that is no problem; dps are fine, healers are fine, tanks? I have still to check them out, but from the little 4.0.2a testing, they seem alright. I have a healthy adrenaline rush, not a gauntlet feeling; and for me, that's just right.

 

A player after my own heart, I used to like running totally comp-free solo, 5-10 levels above content. Level sync put a stop to that, unfortunately.

[LordArtemis]

That's what I meant, I'm not disengaged; 4.0 I could tell I wouldn't be too hooked on the companion strength, although they don't heal as well as 4.0, that is no problem; dps are fine, healers are fine, tanks? I have still to check them out, but from the little 4.0.2a testing, they seem alright. I have a healthy adrenaline rush, not a gauntlet feeling; and for me, that's just right.

 

A player after my own heart, I used to like running totally comp-free solo, 5-10 levels above content. Level sync put a stop to that, unfortunately.

 

Yea, I miss solo runs. It just felt right. It always feel odd that i HAVE to run with the companion to survive.

 

Tanks are still having some issues holding aggro, though that isn't new. They certainly hold aggro better than prior to 4.0, but still not as good as the should IMO.

[sentientomega]

Yea, I miss solo runs. It just felt right. It always feel odd that i HAVE to run with the companion to survive.

 

Tanks are still having some issues holding aggro, though that isn't new. They certainly hold aggro better than prior to 4.0, but still not as good as the should IMO.

 

Absolutely, considering we didn't actually need them for a few levels at the beginning, that is kind of odd.

 

What about damage mitigation for tank comps, how does it fare when compared with tanking character specs? Also, that is a shame; if a tank held aggro that poorly in gp content, they'd be kicked.

 

Also, I have an idea regarding companions, from this thread; which is an homage to gearing them, without actually gearing them, please let me know what you think:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=8661529&postcount=171

 

Sorry about the mess...

Edited November 26, 2015 by sentientomega

[Rabenschwinge]

Class: Jedi Guardian, Vigilance

Role: Damage

Equipment: Average ~ 204. Rating 208 gear from common data crystals, except level 186 crafted relics and rating 200 looted mainhand weapon. No augments.

 

Companion: HK-55 on influence level 3

Content: Knights of the Fallen Empire chapter VIII, the fight against Arcann:

Primer:

WIthout the changes from Knights of the Fallen Empire Arcann would be an notoriously difficult enemy, because he is immune against interrupts, all kinds of crowd control effects etc. In other word: The reason why this fight would have been difficult is that the player is forced to play with one hand behind the back. About 50% of the powers a player possesses are categorically useless in this fight even though the tactical situation would warrant the use of such powers, Arcann in turn makes excessive use of powers similar to those of a jedi knight or sith warrior.

 

Difficulty:

No difficulty whatsover observed. His powers simply do not deal damage. I even wasted my best defence on something unimportant and had to suffer a "Master Strike" without anything I could do about it. I did keep on eye on my hit point bar, but it was nailed at 100%. I did evade the floor effects he summons (i.e. when a red circle appears at my feet during the fight I step out of it and don't try to find out what it does. It's safe to assume that I won't like it. Consequently I don't know how difficult the fight would have been had I not stepped out of it.)

 

Conclusion:

The fight against Arcann is, in story terms, a bit contradictory. In the actually fight the player learns that Arcann is a pathetic looser who is completely unable to causs any damage with his lightsaber at all and I could waste him any time I want to. In the video sequences Arcann defeats the player character, unless they accept Valkorian's help. From the experience of the fight I can hardly imagine that a player would ever make the choice to accept help. Why would he? What the player learned so far is that Arcann is grossly incompetent a warrior and no challenge at all.

 

Tactical Flashpoint Hammer Station via group finder

Class: Jedi Shadow, Infiltration

Level: 65

Gear Rating: Average 212 all with level 208 augments (all level 216, except the two relics at level 192)

Companion: First none, later Lana Beniko at influence level 23, set to heal

 

Primer:

Originally we entered the flashpoint as a full group. There was another level 65 other than me and two players somewhere in the between level 20 and 30. By my observation I am inclined to say that the lower level team members were highly inexperienced. All participants were damage dealers.

 

Difficulty:

It was a bit slow at first. During the first few normal group at least one of the low level players died. (I may be just a damage dealer, but I take any death of a group member as a personal failure.) It did not exactly help that a level 23 Jedi Guardian tried to rush into enemy groups while others were still healing up. Before we even came to the first boss both low level players quitted the flashpoint without comment. From that point on it became ridiculously easy. We didn't have to stop during the fights and the final boss could not cause damage as fast as both our companions could heal up.

 

Conclusion:

The level sync upwards in flashpoints is severly broken. With the character I described above I could solo most flashpoints with a companion (well, not Blood Hunt, Battle of Rishi etc. but the older ones). I know for a fact that I can solo Mentor in Directive 7, even though it's a borderline thing. However, I cannot do them with three players of a level 50 and lower. That is not merely a matter of skill as in the case described above. In Hammer Station no healer of level 18 (the nominal level Hammer Station used to have) can possibly hope to even remotely keep up with a companion, no matter how good he is.

Edited November 26, 2015 by Rabenschwinge