Companion Changes in 4.0.2

[Draqsko]

It isn't broken. I can do anything now that I could do before. If you can't handle actually playing, you should probably try Hello Kitty Online.

 

Companions now are more powerful than they were before 4.0. They heal and hit much harder than they did when you could gear them out even after the nerf.

 

You fail to understand that soloing the H2 SF wasn't meant to be a cake walk, which it was prior to the nerf. It's now a challenge, though not near the challenge it should be. You seem to want everything to be so easy that anyone can do it without thought or using anything but a main attack rotation, which no game should ever stoop to.

 

If people would spend as much time learning to play as they do whining about companions that are no longer OP, they'd find the game isn't hard at all.

 

http://imgur.com/a/tX5fh

 

My focused defense never outhealed Doc in 192 gear at level 60 in 3.0. Sorry, try again in 3.0 they could get 3k ehps, now it's 1k. And they could get that 3k if you just did the story line, so everyone had access to that level of power.

 

Please, you can make all the excuses you want, the nerf is completely overboard. Right now, you can dismiss your companion and not even notice a difference in anything short of a tactical flashpoint or SF H2 solo run, if you are as good as you claim.

[shawn_the_geek]

Having your companion in their underwear beat everything for you because you're too weak to do it yourself kind of ruins your ******ery don't you think?

 

The underwear part may or may not be accurate, I just never bothered putting gear back on any of mine.

Except I know for a fact I am a much better player than you. I haven't died once soloing H2 SF. Stooping to my level makes you just as much of a ****. Don't you think? I baited you into acting like that and now you are no better than me, *******.

 

Now, I'm off to actually play the game and not waste money arguing about stupid **** like you're doing.

Edited November 20, 2015 by shawn_the_geek

[Fallensouls]

You guys realize the people complaining about nerfing the companions were mostly pvpers? Now ask yourself why would that be? Because of open world pvp they cant kill enemy players who have healers hahaha they dont know how to CC and kill the attacking player. I just literally got some goof to admit it accidentally on another thread.

[shawn_the_geek]

You guys realize the people complaining about nerfing the companions were mostly pvpers? Now ask yourself why would that be? Because of open world pvp they cant kill enemy players who have healers hahaha they dont know how to CC and kill the attacking player. I just literally got some goof to admit it accidentally on another thread.

PvP should have never allowed companions in the first place.

[GhostRaven]

You guys realize the people complaining about nerfing the companions were mostly pvpers? Now ask yourself why would that be? Because of open world pvp they cant kill enemy players who have healers hahaha they dont know how to CC and kill the attacking player. I just literally got some goof to admit it accidentally on another thread.

 

Im not a pvp'er want to restate your facts

[Fallensouls]

Im not a pvp'er want to restate your facts

 

Dont care who or what you are pvpers are a big reason for the nerf bat being so harsh.

[caronome]

finding that they actually have to play the game and they can't stand it.

No, the point is they don't have to play the game. Game design PhDs can critically judge design decisions. But those are pretty unrelated to what is the most profitable thing for the game company to do. Back when Ghostcrawler was at Blizzard, he made the comment "if we make a change to make the game better and people leave, how is it better?"

 

As a division of Electronic Arts, I think keeping the revenue stream is as important as keeping their design goals.

[RealKraschman]

Im not a pvp'er want to restate your facts

Nor am I.

 

Most of the Heroics are still doable, but those Star Fortresses are a completely different category of hard, whether you can manage to solo them or not.. The Knights of Zakuul especially are virtually mislabeled champions in the heroic.

Edited November 20, 2015 by RealKraschman

[shawn_the_geek]

No, the point is they don't have to play the game. Game design PhDs can critically judge design decisions. But those are pretty unrelated to what is the most profitable thing for the game company to do. Back when Ghostcrawler was at Blizzard, he made the comment "if we make a change to make the game better and people leave, how is it better?"

 

As a division of Electronic Arts, I think keeping the revenue stream is as important as keeping their design goals.

EA hasn't cared about design goals for the last decade.

[Imadian]

like I've posted in another thread...

Just last week I was able to do my heroic +2 dailies with my companion.

TODAY, I decided to do it again with same companion same gear, same heroic+2...blah blah blah.

After Dying 4 times I logged out.

I agree that companions did need a look over...but you guys nerfed them too much. AND silver-level mobs shouldn't be hitting me like a mac truck.

Nothing is worth this much aggravation.

[Eryxx]

Companions were pretty much OP when KotFE released, but now they've gone too far in the other direction.

 

I just spent well over an hour trying to beat ONE combat engagement on the Makeb H2+ "The Specialists." Starts out with a Champion Gold, not a big deal, right? Get him to about 1/2 health and 3 silvers join in on you. Not very much later, 3 more silvers join in the fray (all the while the original gold champ and what's left of the first 3 silvers is still pounding away at you.)

 

I died 8 times in a row, EIGHT TIMES. I used every single freakin' ability a Merc has, I healed like a sonuvabeetch, I set Comp to Heal, DPS and Tank, I even used Heroic Moment (or whateverthehell its called now) and died EIGHT TIMES. I could have played it a hundred times and still would've died every time. If some other player hadn't taken pity on me and given me a hand on round #9, I'd still be lying there on Makeb, dead.

 

After that, in the same Heroic, there's another Champion Gold boss (forget it's name, big gorilla-looking thing,) died 4 times in a row on that one and it never made it down past 1/2 health, so I had to give up. I'm not a noob (been playing since beta,) and while certainly not the greatest SWTOR player on the planet, I've always held my own either solo or grouped. There is no way I will ever beat this boss on my own the way things stand now, ain't gonna happen. Don't tell me I can "solo any Heroic 2+ with only a Companion" if it's not reasonably achievable in 3 or 4 tries, that's just ridiculous. I have a job, wife, kids, dog and house and don't have hours to invest in beating ONE stupid freaking mission, it's absurd.

 

I used to solo Heroic 2s all the time prior to KotFE, I'd just level up past the Heroic sufficiently and come back and knock 'em out. CAN'T do that anymore, now that the level is capped for each planet. They weren't always easy before, but I could get through them.

 

Grouping has never been much of an option for me as I am only able to play pretty late at night/very early morning. When there are only 12 people on a planet or 2 guildies in the whole game (including myself,) your odds of getting a group together are minuscule. I don't have time to wait 45 minutes or more every night hoping I can raise a group, I have to get in there and start playing if I want to get anything accomplished at all. Right now, for example, I'm spending my precious time writing here when I have to be up for work in 4 hours and 15 minutes.

 

I've been paying for and enjoying this game since Day 1, haven't missed a month's subscription yet, but I will have to seriously consider re-upping if something doesn't change soon. No, I'm not rage-quitting if Comps don't go back to exactly as they were when KotFE launched, but damn, please just let me play the friggin' game at a reasonable pace, PLEASE! This game is one of the only outlets of relaxation in my life and I don't need it, too, to become another avenue of frustration and disappointment.

[Zyphus]

Hey folks,

 

If you haven’t yet seen the 4.0.2 patch notes, you can view them here. There are some patch notes that we wanted to highlight and talk about specifically.

 

• Companion base stats have been reduced.
  
• Companion damage and healing output has been reduced.
  

 

Some of you will certainly ask, why the need to nerf Companions? This is something that we definitely saw the community be divided on, and it was good for us to hear feedback from both sides. Ultimately, this decision came down to our own goals for Companions, along with data on how they were performing. What we saw in those instances is that Companions, simply put, were just way too good. Their healing and damage output could be greater than that of a very skilled player with a fully maximized character. In order for you to understand why we are making these changes, we thought it best to explain our goals for Companions in Fallen Empire.

 

In KotFE, with a large focus on going back to story, we wanted to make sure that all of our story content was accessible to all of our players. The power that Companions bring to the table, definitely played a part in that accessibility. Companions, from a combat perspective, should complement and provide support to your character, not overshadow them. However, in looking at how strong Companions are, we may have gone a bit too far in that direction. Simply put, while playing through much of the game, there are a lot of situations in regular combat where it is practically impossible for you to be killed if you have a healing Companion. Although this can be fun for a time, this wasn’t our goal. Companions should be strong, they should fill any role you need, but they should not make your actual gameplay be overshadowed by how strong they are.

 

So with 4.0.2 we have brought their effectiveness down quite a bit, let’s talk about some of the specifics here:

• There isn’t a flat % that healing was reduced by. Effectiveness reduction varies greatly depending on level, Influence, level sync, etc. That being said, the healer companions are still quite competitive, but they no longer trivialize content that was meant to be challenging.
  
• Healing power increase by Influence level has been increased. That means that as you scale up Influence levels with a Companion they will get more powerful per level than before. This helps to offset the base healing reduction a bit as you gain influence with your companion.
  

 

We did want to make some improvements to tanking Companions:

• We increased the threat generated by tank companions, so they should be able to hold the attention of enemy NPCs better than before.
  
• We fixed an issue involving the tank companion’s mass grapple ability, it will no longer pull in enemies that are out of combat.
  

 

Will your Companions feel a bit weaker than they did when KotFE launched? Yes. But believe me they will still carry their weight and fill the role you need them to in combat. All that we ask is that you log in tomorrow, and check the changes yourself. Play around with the Companions in each role and let us know your feedback. Thanks everyone.

 

-eric

 

All of this was explained in numerous posts. You're too lazy to read them I see. Well I'll sum it up for you this is the way you want your game. So you pay for it, because I'm not giving you another cent for a broken game.

[FrozenMist]

I mostly do pvp, but every now and then I dabble into solo pve. 4.0.2 sits just right with me. Having some soloable content that requires slightly more than standing in one place pressing 1 on the keyboard was a welcome addition for me. To each their own I guess.

[HuaRya]

Turns out we can't do SF H2 , technically that is a heroic. Letting you know.

Quote: Originally Posted by AdarnVote

 

just one question then eric:

for those of us who like to play solo like me, will I still be able to go through with my healing companion and do the weekly heroics to build our influence/alliance? because right now that’s all I’ve got to work with solo wise.

 

Absolutely! It certainly may be a bit more challenging than before but you can complete them. The intent is that you can complete any [Heroic 2] with your Companion counting as one of the two. If you find this isn’t true for any Heroics tomorrow, let us know.

 

-eric

 

psst. population is getting lower now. Maybe those leet gamers aren't helping the 90% in their heroics and just logging off instead.

http://www.torstatus.net/shards/us/trends

[Myracarrah]

Companion Healers should have their Single Target Heal increased by 20%, and their Heal Over Time Heals should be increased by 10%. The biggest issue with Companion Healers is their rotation. Seems they throw all their healing out at once and then... stand... there. I personally think it's revenge for all the healing we demanded they do prior to the patch. But either way it's obnoxious. Also for the love of all that is holy, please make them stop CCing the mob I am hitting.

 

Companion DPS is sitting pretty. You can watch their damage output climb as they gain more influence. Please don't do anything to them. Leave them alone. They are pretty much balanced.

Companion Tank might look like they have tank skills but something isn't applying right. Normal and Silver mobs are eating through their health. It's something like wrapping them in bacon for armor and throwing them to the dogs. They are only managing to hold agro on single targets, if you pull a group expect the group to peel off and come for you. And please make the Tank Companions stop standing on the quest click updates. I thought it might just be the Body Type 2... but it's not. All Tank Companions deliberately stand in your way.

 

SF Solo Mode the rewards are a bit weak for running that darn thing 6 times in a week. At the very least the Solo Mode should drop 208 armor mods.

SF Heroic2 Mode the rewards are even weaker for the effort put in. While less tedious and grindy, there is a difficulty factor to overcome. Kindly add Radiant Crystals (approximately 5) to the weekly reward. Also mod drops should be 216s not 208s. That would go a long way in properly reflecting the difficulty requirements for the Heroic2.

[HuaRya]

You guys realize the people complaining about nerfing the companions were mostly pvpers? Now ask yourself why would that be? Because of open world pvp they cant kill enemy players who have healers hahaha they dont know how to CC and kill the attacking player. I just literally got some goof to admit it accidentally on another thread.

 

Brilliant, that makes sense. The same people who probably tell people to get friends when asking for a Solo only PVP queue so you don't have to play Lord of the Flies hunt the pug with a team of 4. And, the same people who spend their whole Gree event week griefing people in the PVP area. eric musco's little darlings .

[Tarkashae]

Grouping has never been much of an option for me as I am only able to play pretty late at night/very early morning.

 

What server, and what timezone? I play early AM too.

[Ferretfur]

Companion Healers should have their Single Target Heal increased by 20%, and their Heal Over Time Heals should be increased by 10%. The biggest issue with Companion Healers is their rotation. Seems they throw all their healing out at once and then... stand... there. I personally think it's revenge for all the healing we demanded they do prior to the patch. But either way it's obnoxious. Also for the love of all that is holy, please make them stop CCing the mob I am hitting.

 

Companion DPS is sitting pretty. You can watch their damage output climb as they gain more influence. Please don't do anything to them. Leave them alone. They are pretty much balanced.

Companion Tank might look like they have tank skills but something isn't applying right. Normal and Silver mobs are eating through their health. It's something like wrapping them in bacon for armor and throwing them to the dogs. They are only managing to hold agro on single targets, if you pull a group expect the group to peel off and come for you. And please make the Tank Companions stop standing on the quest click updates. I thought it might just be the Body Type 2... but it's not. All Tank Companions deliberately stand in your way.

 

SF Solo Mode the rewards are a bit weak for running that darn thing 6 times in a week. At the very least the Solo Mode should drop 208 armor mods.

SF Heroic2 Mode the rewards are even weaker for the effort put in. While less tedious and grindy, there is a difficulty factor to overcome. Kindly add Radiant Crystals (approximately 5) to the weekly reward. Also mod drops should be 216s not 208s. That would go a long way in properly reflecting the difficulty requirements for the Heroic2.

 

I pretty much agree with most of what you have said, though would like to see a straight 25% boost to healing companions. I especially like your thoughts on Star Fortress rewards.

[LordArtemis]

If I were to tweak individual roles....

 

Tank

 

Needs the least amount of help IMO....however, the damage nerf seems to have reduced it's capacity to hold aggro again. So I would increase the threat created by their abilities substantially.

 

DPS

 

Personally I feel the changes needed would be served by the overall suggestion to either increase base stats by around 3 to 5 percent or increase presence/influence effect by 5 to 10 percent.

 

Heal

 

This is the role that needs the most help IMO. Single target heals are far too weak, and performance is not up to pre 4.0 standards. I would suggest that area healing doesn't need as much help, but single target healing is far too weak...overall healing could use a 10 to 25 percent boost to at least match pre 3.0 performance.

[Ghisallo]

If I were to tweak individual roles....

 

Tank

 

Needs the least amount of help IMO....however, the damage nerf seems to have reduced it's capacity to hold aggro again. So I would increase the threat created by their abilities substantially.

 

DPS

 

Personally I feel the changes needed would be served by the overall suggestion to either increase base stats by around 3 to 5 percent or increase presence/influence effect by 5 to 10 percent.

 

Heal

 

This is the role that needs the most help IMO. Single target heals are far too weak, and performance is not up to pre 4.0 standards. I would suggest that area healing doesn't need as much help, but single target healing is far too weak...overall healing could use a 10 to 25 percent boost to at least match pre 3.0 performance.

 

Lord, not saying I disagree BUT I would suggest something a little different first. First it seems that at lower levels the companions are more troublesome. So first I would address the way they scale with level. Next it seems at end game, with healing, that the problem is inconsistent. One H2 things are matching up with the goals, another not so much. Would it be better first to consider that maybe the issue is, at least in part, related to some of the new H2s and/or the Lvl sync mechanic itself, having and issue. Look at that first THEN if healing still seems to at issue address it.

 

I only say this because just increasing heals, without looking at the content first, you run the risk of maintaining an inconsistent experience. If the experience remains inconsistent more people will perceive there to be a problem. When they say H2s should be "medium", just increasing healing indeed would make currently "hard" H2's "medium" BUT current "mediums" would become "easy". Since content difficulty is, in part, determined by comparison to other pieces of content people could still see the medium as more difficult and may still interpret that as "hard" and so demand another companion change.

 

Make sense?

[LordArtemis]

Lord, not saying I disagree BUT I would suggest something a little different first. First it seems that at lower levels the companions are more troublesome. So first I would address the way they scale with level. Next it seems at end game, with healing, that the problem is inconsistent. One H2 things are matching up with the goals, another not so much. Would it be better first to consider that maybe the issue is, at least in part, related to some of the new H2s and/or the Lvl sync mechanic itself, having and issue. Look at that first THEN if healing still seems to at issue address it.

 

I only say this because just increasing heals, without looking at the content first, you run the risk of maintaining an inconsistent experience. If the experience remains inconsistent more people will perceive there to be a problem. When they say H2s should be "medium", just increasing healing indeed would make currently "hard" H2's "medium" BUT current "mediums" would become "easy". Since content difficulty is, in part, determined by comparison to other pieces of content people could still see the medium as more difficult and may still interpret that as "hard" and so demand another companion change.

 

Make sense?

 

I would only disagree that the changes I suggest would come anywhere near making any current "medium" intended content easy, at least not likely.

 

The increase would have to be around 25 to 30 percent for base stats, and 50 to 60 percent for heals, which is close to where it was in 4.0 for me to consider the content "easy".

 

This is a small suggested overall adjustment that would not make anyone happy....not the folks that are happy with comps now (a likely very small minority IMO) and not the folks that want to return to 4.0.

 

I believe my suggested tweaks would bring them in line with pre 4.0 performance.

 

I would, however, agree that if level sync was adjusted overall it is likely they could keep companions as they are, perhaps a few small tweaks to tanks aggro management. I think boosting maximum level in sync by one level would likely do the trick.

Edited November 20, 2015 by LordArtemis

[Voblat]

. One H2 things are matching up with the goals, another not so much. Would it be better first to consider that maybe the issue is, at least in part, related to some of the new H2s and/or the Lvl sync mechanic itself, having and issue. Look at that first THEN if healing still seems to at issue address it.

 

 

Make sense?

 

I mentioned in Musco's feedback thread that companion AI is majorly bugged anyway, and the bigger heals that 4.0 brought in mostly just masked the inadequacies of the coding that we now are suffering from (liek stopping healing you through a fight and then starting again).

 

But there is more underlying issues I've seen including level sync. The best one is the solo Revan weekly on Yavin. The Jedi, satile I think her name is, used to give you a huge buff to help you survive the huge hits Revan puts out.

Now, she still does it, but level sync overides it and you end up with about 54k health instead of what was double that. Revan still hits you for 20k crits though, of course.

 

None of what they have done has been tested or thought through at all.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Voblat

[shippper]

tbh from all mmo game i ever seen thats most stupid patch

[wuselxray]

Hmm.... Biofail nerf, Biofail nerf, Biofail nef, hmm what should i do?!? Ahhh yes !!!! Abo nerf....

 

Nerf, nerf, nerf it sucks .......

[Aricin]

I mentioned in Musco's feedback thread that companion AI is majorly bugged anyway, and the bigger heals that 4.0 brought in mostly just masked the inadequacies of the coding that we now are suffering from (liek stopping healing you through a fight and then starting again).

 

But there is more underlying issues I've seen including level sync. The best one is the solo Revan weekly on Yavin. The Jedi, satile I think her name is, used to give you a huge buff to help you survive the huge hits Revan puts out.

Now, she still does it, but level sync overides it and you end up with about 54k health instead of what was double that. Revan still hits you for 20k crits though, of course.

 

None of what they have done has been tested or thought through at all.

 

Totally aggree, the negative impact would nowhere near be as bad if the companions worked correctly 100% of the time.