Companion Changes in 4.0.2

[DurdensWrath]

The hyoerbole It implies what Eric said in his post is a lie.

Because he has lied/mislead in the past?

 

I mean the very last time that everyone was up in arms over a patch, was basically from Eric misrepresenting things. And that came from those same elitists ************ about jawa junk and certificates.

 

Maybe you just think its too grindy now,

Indeed so. The Tedium is at least triple what it was yesterday. 4.0 actually had me going back to planets and doing the heroics. Had me actually DOING some of them for the first time. The companions made it so it wasn't a "LFG impossible heroic" like it was prior to 4.0.

 

Now it's just another pointless time sink.

 

I'm fine with people being elitist. If people want more of a challenge they should have the right to make the game harder for themselves.

Nor do I in theory. But most of the time, they want to pee in my corn flakes to make their challenge possible. Edited November 18, 2015 by DurdensWrath

[sjscorpiomark]

Okay so I got in finally here are my thoughts, coming from the place of no characters over level 47 no comps over level 18 and no legacy unlocks. I tried standard planet H2+ runs (sentinel lvl 28 and commando lvl 48) both with healer comps.

 

Yesterday I would wipe the floor with them, OP for sure but fun wrecking stuff. today I scraped by a few near deaths and generally about twice as long to complete the mission needing to be exceedingly careful about CC and not letting splash damage (an issue on the commando) from breaking CC so lots of CC then run away a ways or LOS to pull the rest away from the CC. not a big deal but a skill many people don't have if they have not played a game that required CC regularly.

 

if you accidentally break a CC it gets problematic and you will have to blow all your cool downs. For the average player that has some MMO raiding experience it's a 75% chance of pulling it out when bad things happen because you have probably experienced things going sideways a lot. The average never raided just play for RP or crafting and a little FUN (i.e. not into wanting a challenging combat game) player i give them a 25% chance or less when things go sideways.

 

Does yesterday's experience mean the nerf was needed, being too easy? Yes I think so

Does today's experience mean the nerf was too much? Yes I think so, put back 1/2 the nerf and I think it would be fine.

 

for the raider/hard mode player it doesn't really effect you so I don't want to hear it was too easy. (you always play with 4 humans right?) if you did play with comps just dismiss them and truly SOLO content have as much challenging play as you want. What does it matter to you if I or anyone else wants an easy gaming experience?

 

For the casual to average player the nerf is going to turn what was a really fun 'easy' game into a chore and many will unsub due to it no longer being FUN for them. They are not crybabies or whiners or anything but people who want to play a game and enjoy themselves. they could care less about how you and your group downed hard mode blah blah with no tank, they just want to play their FUN game their way and let you do it your way.

[shawn_the_geek]

This is actually the only issue I have with any of your arguments. The hyoerbole It implies what Eric said in his post is a lie. Why does it have to be the "elitist" crying that caused the issue? Why can it not be simply that BW, as has happened so many times in the past, did CRAPTASTIC testing before launch and so released companions that were OP according to their original plan?

 

I understand you are not happy and can appreciate that. I understand that there may be issues for you. Maybe you just think its too grindy now, maybe somethings have become road blocks for you. I can appreciate any and all of these things. It's primarily the idea that BW never intended the original state of the 4.0 companions that I am having trouble wrapping my head around.

I think they did it because they wanted people to be able to rush through their class stories and get to KOTFE. What they intended is a moot point. They gave people OP companions and many people in the community loved it. They should have known taking OP companions away was going to cause an even greater divide in the community and it has; and as a result people are cancelling subs and Bioware is losing money.

 

If they went back and patched it so it would be optional to have OP or non-OP companions I feel that would cause a lot of the fighting to stop and people that unsubbed would re-sub.

[jakeobione]

Okay so I got in finally here are my thoughts, coming from the place of no characters over level 47 no comps over level 18 and no legacy unlocks. I tried standard planet H2+ runs (sentinel lvl 28 and commando lvl 48) both with healer comps.

 

Yesterday I would wipe the floor with them, OP for sure but fun wrecking stuff. today I scraped by a few near deaths and generally about twice as long to complete the mission needing to be exceedingly careful about CC and not letting splash damage (an issue on the commando) from breaking CC so lots of CC then run away a ways or LOS to pull the rest away from the CC. not a big deal but a skill many people don't have if they have not played a game that required CC regularly.

 

if you accidentally break a CC it gets problematic and you will have to blow all your cool downs. For the average player that has some MMO raiding experience it's a 75% chance of pulling it out when bad things happen because you have probably experienced things going sideways a lot. The average never raided just play for RP or crafting and a little FUN (i.e. not into wanting a challenging combat game) player i give them a 25% chance or less when things go sideways.

 

Does yesterday's experience mean the nerf was needed, being too easy? Yes I think so

Does today's experience mean the nerf was too much? Yes I think so, put back 1/2 the nerf and I think it would be fine.

 

for the raider/hard mode player it doesn't really effect you so I don't want to hear it was too easy. (you always play with 4 humans right?) if you did play with comps just dismiss them and truly SOLO content have as much challenging play as you want. What does it matter to you if I or anyone else wants an easy gaming experience?

 

For the casual to average player the nerf is going to turn what was a really fun 'easy' game into a chore and many will unsub due to it no longer being FUN for them. They are not crybabies or whiners or anything but people who want to play a game and enjoy themselves. they could care less about how you and your group downed hard mode blah blah with no tank, they just want to play their FUN game their way and let you do it your way.

 

Like I said, the patch pretty much did nothing to a top end player like myself. But destroyed the bottom/mid tier game. Anyone with any experience in MMO's knew the nerf would do this.

 

Developers don't understand how their own game works, cause they don't play it. It's amazing that in 2015 video game companies continue to make the same mistakes, they made two+ decades ago.

Edited November 18, 2015 by jakeobione

[Ghisallo]

Because he has lied/mislead in the past?

 

I mean the very last time that everyone was up in arms over a patch, was basically from Eric misrepresenting things. And that came from those same elitists ************ about jawa junk and certificates.

 

Or maybe then, again, something was launched in an unintended state. You are of course entitled to your opinion. I think this, and the slot machine, were not because of a small number of players complaining, I think it is because BW has "issues" with proper QA and over all testing. When you look at how many new bugs get introduced with each content update, along with all of the balancing they do after words for weeks or even months, that seems a far more logical conclusion, imo, rather than assuming that two big changes are lied about.

 

I know the elitist is the easy target and a boogeyman BUT these companies do NOT listen to the cries of minorities. They want to make as much money as possible so it is simply illogical. As I said before at best the "elitists" simply pointed out an issue that BW missed. So if you want to hate on them hate on them the same way you do the person behind you in line when they tell the cashier they just gave you a 20 instead of a 5 in change. heck I think my concept is arguably worse tbh. What is worse, a company that MAY knee jerk to cries from its players OR a company that after 3 years hasn't fixed the QA and testing issues they have had since launch?

[Glzmo]

Wow, with these nerf - which was way too much, by the way - even single player content isn't all that much fun any longer.

Is it just me or do companions even heal way worse than before 4.0 (with top-end healing gear) now? At least it feels that way. It seems companions at level 65 now heal somewhat like companions at level ~50 used to before 4.0. I doubt that was the idea behind the whole "improving companions" thing. Tank companions still seem to be useless and DPS companions more than before as well.

Due to it, levelling with certain classes, especially for tank and healer characters, is now more unfun and harder as well.

 

Yes, a slight reduction was needed. But reducing companion strength this much is just ridiculous. Bioware just went into full panic mode because of the vocal minority and nerfed some random value instead of seriously testing it. Such a change should have been put on public test for a couple of months and tweaked based on feedback instead of tossing it live immediately.

I think I'll also unsubsribe the first time since launch once my current subscription is up, because Bioware spends time and resources making the game unfun for players instead of spending it on features that have been asked for since launch and before and repeatedly promised to be coming, like chat bubbles, for example.

 

You were on a good path making this game more accessible, but now you backpedaled way too far.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Glzmo

[CaveBeast]

They wanted feedback... Mine is that they hit companions too hard with the nerf bat. Restore about half of what you just took away from them and you will make MANY people (mainly solo players) much happier... Those who want more of a challenge can run without a companion or have their companion on passive whenever they feel like it...

[_NovaBlast_]

If you cant solo the Heroic, that is not a problem with the game, that is a problem with your play style. Do the STORY mode for solo.....

 

Why play a MMO? There is tons to do in this game that does not require grouping.

 

Because its something they are interested in.. People may have many reasons to. You seem to not understand that a MMO does not inherently means you need to group

 

Your stating things as fact when they are not They are based on your opinion only.

 

Everything should be soloable. All content should also give the same rewards as group content regardless of difficulty becase fun is subjective .

 

Another point of fact that yours is just an opinion is you see alot of posts from people who say **but but but its a MMO"" And think an "mmo" is a type of game ( like fps , moba , rpg etc" ) and that a "MMO" must include group content.

 

They are simply wrong.

 

MMO is simply the games environment. Nothing else. That is an actual indisputable fact.

 

If more than one person can access the same content at the same time its a MMO regardless of what that content is.

 

My OPINION is you are just as wrong as those people

 

Everything should be soloable . If you want to group go and find a guild or others who also want to group .

 

really you sound as short sighted one of those fanatic on a moba board who say " The only reason to play a moba is the outcome" and whine that people in the solo que don't take the game as serious as them.

 

For something just like using the characters they like and have fun during the match sometimes you win sometimes you don't its not a big deal.

 

The answer to them is the same if you want to take the game seriously go find a group and join a premade.

 

My point being stop trying to make people view the game the same as you.

 

If they did make everything solo able with equal loot no matter how you choose to play and at what difficulty.

and no one joined the que

 

That means the community has spoken and shouldn't be forced to group . Its then up to you to find your own groups of people who want to group.

Edited November 18, 2015 by _NovaBlast_

[sjscorpiomark]

If they went back and patched it so it would be optional to have OP or non-OP companions I feel that would cause a lot of the fighting to stop and people that unsubbed would re-sub.

 

I agree 100% but would add a slider of some sort default it to say 50% strength if you want stronger comps raise it up if you want more of a challenge lower it down. have credit awards or rep inverse to the level of difficulty slider. if you set it to 100% (4.0 levels) you get 25% less rewards if you set it to 0% (4.0.2 levels) you get 25% more.

[Meenadrai]

I generally don't speak out or complain, honest. I am afraid on this one, I must. My main, 216/220 gear, 3036 Presence, Influence 40 Theron....not once did he heal me for even 5k. He crit at 4694. My main is an Operative, she's squishy. I toss on a few HoT's on myself to stay up while Theron is off DPS'ing or giggling at me with his measly heals. The companions before the new expansion healed for more than that standard. When I'm down by only 27k and it takes him 1 full minute to heal me, yes I tested, there is a problem. I'm all for a bigger challenge, but I am also completely agree with those saying they have lives and this is a way to relax. It is for me as well. RL is a ***** sometimes and all you want to do is cover the ground in someone elses blood...hard to do when you are the one bleeding out.

[Nommaz]

t BW, as has happened so many times in the past, did CRAPTASTIC testing before launch and so released companions that were OP according to their original plan?

 

If this is true then they intentionally trivialised my time spent in game by reducing the power of my character in old content, made new companions nothing more than eye candy (which we cant even customise), killed Treek's abilities, and made her next to worthless.

 

There is no doubt a longer list of things but that's a quick one, off the top of my head.

[JAOMSYH]

Good job bioware with the companion Nerf, way to make more customers hate you. /screwedthepooch

[shawn_the_geek]

I agree 100% but would add a slider of some sort default it to say 50% strength if you want stronger comps raise it up if you want more of a challenge lower it down. have credit awards or rep inverse to the level of difficulty slider. if you set it to 100% (4.0 levels) you get 25% less rewards if you set it to 0% (4.0.2 levels) you get 25% more.

That would work. That's a great way to do it.

[Ghisallo]

I think they did it because they wanted people to be able to rush through their class stories and get to KOTFE. What they intended is a moot point. They gave people OP companions and many people in the community loved it. They should have known taking OP companions away was going to cause an even greater divide in the community and it has; and as a result people are cancelling subs and Bioware is losing money.

 

If they went back and patched it so it would be optional to have OP or non-OP companions I feel that would cause a lot of the fighting to stop and people that unsubbed would re-sub.

 

While I think the bait and switch concept is a little off, the thing is they have a reason for wanting a slower pace in the game I believe. They remember at lunch what happened when people finished the game too fast. People had fun... finsihed the story... canceled subscription. The game "pace" is determined in part by how easily you solo and they wanted a slower pace for 4.0 because of this memory. heck the entire design of the expac with the phasing in of chapters, smaller rewards for weeklies but more weeklies, is all an attempt to "stretch out" the content.

 

While we like to assign nefarious motives for changes that effect us on an emotional level, USUALLY the reasons for changes are made then is the same as most changes. People make mistakes for no other reason than they screwed up and BW has a LONG history of that with this game.

[BigBubbaAl]

As has been said before , i have just started to enjoy the game again. But this nerf makes it impossible to do heroic+2 with a level appropriate toon. i can now only do heroics 10 levels below me. seems stupid, i will probably unsub when this month runs out unless they change this to an acceptable level.

[Talchia]

Actually they were on the right track to get new players, who are now upset about the changes. It was always a problem that the freedom of choice to pick a class wasn't actuallly true. A tank and a healer need much more time and before 4.0 even a good equipped companion couldn't compensate the lack of damage. Over the last months you nerfed these classes so much damage wise that it was not funny anymore. It was always a pain to respec for solo content and spam the inventory with different gears. With 4.0 I didn't care about that and now we are back to mediocre heal companions because any other role is pretty much a waste of time. The only difference is now we have to spend mio credits and/or thousands crystals to achieve that which is far mor expensive than just a set of gear for the companion.

[Ghisallo]

That would work. That's a great way to do it.

 

Any of these sorts of changes only make any sense if one actually believes the changes were made because of player complaints and not because they screwed up. If Eric is truthful and the change was made because they overshot the mark in terms of Companion power in general, and thus people were progressing too easily and too fast, then they would not even consider such a device because it negates their entire purpose for the nerf.

[Khiriath]

So decided to parse a Star Fortress run through. The best a rank 21 Lana did was 969 HPS.. Maybe I'm remembering things wrong, but that was good, you know, back when level cap was 50. I think we can safely say that BW overshot the mark.

[Caelrie]

Monday, soloing a Heroic Star Fortress was a challenge, today, it is only a dream.

 

Neither of those is actually true. It was easy and non-challenging on Monday, and still possible today.

[tmwfte]

heck the entire design of the expac with the phasing in of chapters, smaller rewards for weeklies but more weeklies, is all an attempt to "stretch out" the content.

 

I kind of get the impression that they expected the Alliance Grind to take much longer than it did. Hoping that the grind would take people through until whenever the next chapter drops, instead, it only takes about three weeks if you're only doing the heroics on one character, or much less if you're using the Heroic crates from other toons or buying them with crystals.

 

I think through nerfing companions, I agree that it's an attempt again to stretch out that content, making the Alliance Grind take longer.

[Glzmo]

I kind of get the impression that they expected the Alliance Grind to take much longer than it did. Hoping that the grind would take people through until whenever the next chapter drops, instead, it only takes about three weeks if you're only doing the heroics on one character, or much less if you're using the Heroic crates from other toons or buying them with crystals.

 

I think through nerfing companions, I agree that it's an attempt again to stretch out that content, making the Alliance Grind take longer.

Perhaps so. But in the process, it really hurts other parts of the game as well.

[Ghisallo]

As has been said before , i have just started to enjoy the game again. But this nerf makes it impossible to do heroic+2 with a level appropriate toon. i can now only do heroics 10 levels below me. seems stupid, i will probably unsub when this month runs out unless they change this to an acceptable level.

 

Stop for a moment. Some of us are doing the 65 heroics successfully. So think why this maybe? I have no rad drop gear on the toon I am running with. My companion is a only affection 19. I really don't know what effect my 1000+ presence has BUT they have drinks you can buy to bring it up. Maybe you need more gear (so grouping is an option) maybe you are using the wrong rotation or companion in the wrong "mode?" There is an old saying that got pounded into my head 25 years ago... one of the words in it was "Adapt".

 

I really think some people here are so upset over this change that they are not considering that maybe they have to change how they are playing. These games are all about math. That means, sadly, that while there are 'simply "effective" ways to play, there are also optimal and down right wrong ways to play. That is a regretable cost of a game whose rules are written in just ones and zeros.

[DeadlySynnz]

This comp nerf is way to much. My comps now are far worst then pre KOTFE. Forget solo play now and that is one thing i enjoyed being able to do. Now as for trying to find a group to run these....yeah not a fan of asking in chats for hours to get one. Will give it till my sub days expire to see if this fix this. BW this comp nerf is one of the worst moves you have made in my long time here.

[Ghisallo]

So decided to parse a Star Fortress run through. The best a rank 21 Lana did was 969 HPS.. Maybe I'm remembering things wrong, but that was good, you know, back when level cap was 50. I think we can safely say that BW overshot the mark.

 

Mine shows an HPS of 1231 with a level 18 Lana. Also remember something... the top gear she had then was gone. Lana at 50 would be the old tiers "top geared" Lana, sine they replaced her gear progression with affection.

[xxNurkxx]

For the casual to average player the nerf is going to turn what was a really fun 'easy' game into a chore and many will unsub due to it no longer being FUN for them. They are not crybabies or whiners or anything but people who want to play a game and enjoy themselves. they could care less about how you and your group downed hard mode blah blah with no tank, they just want to play their FUN game their way and let you do it your way.

 

Your entire post was good however this bit addresses issues for some of my friends that came to chill and play with me. They were still learning the game, getting comfy in their classes and now they've become so discouraged that a group of normal mobs almost kills them when they have gear on par (still lvling not hit max yet). I don't look for them to stick around given the lvl of discouragement.

 

Myself, I feel like a derp for wasting all the effort to get Senya to rank 50 because her damage/time to kill a normal elite is the same as my rank 10 Lana. (both dps as I'm a healer). The time it takes to complete a task for me has been increased which is annoying to say the least. No challenge has been added for me personally, it's only made things more time consuming. The companions needed to be tweaked, totally agree. But I don't think it needed to be as much as it is. I seen some posters saying things like "oh you just need to get your legacy presence up" yeah but why should new people coming into the game that have no knowledge of said buff be made to feel like they can't complete content?

 

I hope the dev team can find some common ground and sort it out a bit. I'm holding on to the hope of that for now. I can't speak for my friends but the morale between them is extremely low.