Companion Changes in 4.0.2

[Hellscovern]

Absolutely! It certainly may be a bit more challenging than before but you can complete them. The intent is that you can complete any [Heroic 2] with your Companion counting as one of the two. If you find this isn't true for any Heroics tomorrow, let us know.

 

-eric

 

Here is my feed back on this, can i do any heroic 2+ , with the companion as a healer the answer is no, before the patch i could do them no problem now anything above 2 mobs attacking at once or a elite mob the comp can't heal enough to stay alive and heal me to keep my character alive making using a healer comp useless.

 

I then changed to a tank comp and tried that instead and found that to be better I did come close to dying but was able to stay alive long enough to be able to complete a heroic, I haven't tried damage because that's what my character is set up to do with the comp providing the support.

 

the companions may have been a bit op before the patch and maybe required tweaking but you have gone way to far the other way.

[Quraswren]

Any chance people could post edited highlights rather than a 1000 word ****in essay. TYVM

 

Sure.

 

Your companion was just nerfed 50% - 75% in effectiveness in heals, DPS and tanking (and tanking they nerfed before actually fixing the tank bugs). They accomplished this in various ways with less power, crit, surge, alacrity (base stats in general) as well as increased cooldown on skills.

 

It's one of those times when you think, hey, companions are a powerful but it sure as hell made the game fun and entertaining and just a bit more tolerable when faced with the massive grind BW created.

 

BW nerfed the hell out of all companions to make sure an already tedious task is just more tedious and the alliance grind just a bit more grindy.

 

There is so little difference between influence level now, it's a travisty in both design and development and BW cannot hide behind the, "OH we just didn't see this happening." or whatever else excuse they want to present because it was this way for months and months in closed beta and for the last month of launch.

 

They needed to slow gamers down in the only thing that was brought NEW to the game at max level. The massive GRIND.

[Jaedelyia]

Hehe, I'm actually curious and eager to try what's all this fuss is about. Wasn't able to play since the yesterday patch.

 

A nerf was needed, badly. You could have been blindfolded and still faceroll nearly the whole game with you companion, and thing that were engaging and a bit challenging before became a walk in the park. So yeah, nerf was needed but I'd like to see by myself if they went completely overboard with it (like some claims here) or not.

[LadyVix]

Here is my feed back on this, can i do any heroic 2+ , with the companion as a healer the answer is no, before the patch i could do them no problem now anything above 2 mobs attacking at once or a elite mob the comp can't heal enough to stay alive and heal me to keep my character alive making using a healer comp useless.

 

My companions average heal is 800-900, or approximately 1% of my total HP. As a DPS character with less armor rating, minimal defensive skills and no self heals, my companion is simply incapable of keeping me up long enough to survive.

 

2 days ago I blew through H2+ Star Fortress content without problems. Today I can't even finish it solo because my companion can't heal fast enough to keep up with incoming damage, and I'm in 220 gear!

Edited November 18, 2015 by LadyVix

[EnkiduNineEight]

Glad to hear you saw how ridiculous companions were.

[SmilingFace]

I just want to say, I couldn't stand the leveling grind before even with the 12x experience story boost because it was 60% waiting for revive, 30% healing, 5% fighing and 5% waiting for heroic moment so I can kill a gold enemy. With the companion buff leveling was actuall fun and I did not regret not playing more when the story exp boost was still on. Now that the comapnions are worst then they were before the alliance system launched, playing this game is just tedious for me. This is just my personal opinion if someone find this offensive I appologize in advance. Edited November 18, 2015 by SmilingFace

[Kyhren]

Back to regening after every mob practically. The tedious and monotonous feel to the combat/flow has returned.

 

Much challenge, so fun, wow.

[batbunneh]

When you guys swing the Nerf Bat, you don't mess around huh?

 

Companions are still OP for the veterans with every presence and companion bonus unlocked and have the time to grind for gifts; They are useless for the new player starting from scratch, with only a few hours to play and not as able to get the gifts to boost companion performance, AKA the casual market that this game has been blatantly trying to win over with 4.0.

 

So you found a solution that manages to serve no one, really. I don't know why I expected otherwise from Bioware Austin. The only winners here are researchers in search of new case studies for mismanagement of customer feedback, game systems and data analysis.

[EnkiduNineEight]

Glad to hear you saw how ridiculous companions were.

 

 

I was going to edit and add to this post but I see people got in before I could.

 

Eric, it may be worthwhile to show the folks 'some' of your ability to Datamine the live game stats.

 

Give players a before 4.0, after 4.0 set of data, not everything, so you don't give away the tools for people to use to then get you to adjust balance by their actions, but maybe something just to show, average deaths per player, or per companion. Maybe something just showing the average healing output pre 4.0 and post 4.0 so that players who are busy using their most recent anecdote to judge the changes are instead maybe shown hard data.

 

The lack of communication at a 'nuts and bolts' level does do a lot to spur all the irrational claims on the boards/word of mouth. If you were to give players more concrete information they'll have a greater opportunity to use some logic and reasoning and understand why changes may have been made.

 

Using the CSM debacle as an example. Players are still upset with 'you' over this because they had the hard data, they knew what the numbers were before and after as well as the numbers for the Hutt Celebration Event. You couldhave leveraged this knowledge into not only a reasonable patch/nerf/balancing but you would have .. had you done this, had more satisfied customers even though they may not have gotten exactly what they wanted.

 

Your post to start this off was good, and explaining the reasoning and rational behind something is good. It will be even better if you provide some data to put the reasoning into context for people who are expressing their viscera based on personal anecdote.

[Halinalle]

For planetary heroics it's not too bad actually. I just did Ilum heroic from weekly terminal on my Shadow in KC with almost no tanking gear, only tanking equipment she had on was 208 shield offhand I got from tactical few days ago.

 

I used Akk Dog, rank 1, as a healer. I didn't do bonus. Takes too long.

[Eialune]

Interesting reading, thanks. Having said that, I'm not letting you off the hook that easily. You claim that companions should be powerful but not so much so that they're better than your own character who is, for all intents and purposes, the hero of your story. I would tend to agree since the game tells you time and again that your hero is special. However, this explanation breaks down when applied to the concept of level sync. After all, my hero is, for instance, level 60. Why should he be paired down to the level of Korriban mobs? What is the (ingame) reasoning behind that? Simply put, none. In other words, you wield one argument for nerfing companions, and a different one for nerfing the PC. Isn't that a double standard? If I'm powerful, I'm the same powerful for my allies as well as for my enemies. So, let's dispense with the thought that this is done because companions are overshadowing you (which is mentioned) and stick with the thought that it's done because they overshadow gameplay (also mentioned); in other words, they make playing the game too easy.

 

Please define "easy" and "hard" for me. I'll give you a minute. On second thought, take an hour. That's right, it varies from player to player. Ultimately, however, I can confidently state we don't play games because of how easy or hard they are; we play them to have fun. Now, for some, the fun is in having some kind of challenge, facing it, and successfully overcoming it, and I readily admit it feels pretty good. The question then becomes, what do you consider a challenge? I'll tell you what it's not for me, personally.

 

A challenge is not making an enemy tougher or making yourself (and your companions) weaker to the point that it simply takes more time to beat them. After all, what can be challenging about spending time? Nothing. A challenge, for me, will involve a powerful enemy, yes, with abilities that a team of players need to counter in the right way. It involves players learning to work together; learning what (and what not) to do, how to do it, and when to do it. Sound familiar? It should. It's what happens in good FP & Op runs which: a) don't involve companions but other players; and b) even have difficulty levels. It's been a while since you've introduced any more of these challenges, though, hasn't it?

 

Normal PvE content (quests, heroics) is not particularly challenging (again, by my definition of challenge). There's no team here, just you, so "challenges" are more often that not enemies with large HP and/or damage output. Sure, you have a companion who you can micromanage (to a point) but mostly all overcoming the "challenge" comes down to is being in the same level range (aka, not feeling suicidal), having appropriate gear (simplified after KotFE), and knowing your rotation (you can probably win without the last one even). Depending on the combination of these factors, enemies will take or more less time to defeat and, like I've said, there's nothing challenging about spending time.

 

To sum up this rather long rant, nerfing companions won't make the game any harder, it'll just force me to spend more time to do the same thing I previously did in less. Where's the fun in that? Where's the challenge in that? I'm all for a challenge. Introduce more FPs and Ops; we've been waiting a while for those.

 

PS: And I didn't even mention PvP content!

 

Mic drop, slow clap, etc.

 

This is the most articulate post from either side of the camp so far and elucidates the flawed (and suspect at best) logic behind the nerf.

[Magnouss]

Sure.

 

Your companion was just nerfed 50% - 75% in effectiveness in heals, DPS and tanking (and tanking they nerfed before actually fixing the tank bugs). They accomplished this in various ways with less power, crit, surge, alacrity (base stats in general) as well as increased cooldown on skills.

 

It's one of those times when you think, hey, companions are a powerful but it sure as hell made the game fun and entertaining and just a bit more tolerable when faced with the massive grind BW created.

 

BW nerfed the hell out of all companions to make sure an already tedious task is just more tedious and the alliance grind just a bit more grindy.

 

There is so little difference between influence level now, it's a travisty in both design and development and BW cannot hide behind the, "OH we just didn't see this happening." or whatever else excuse they want to present because it was this way for months and months in closed beta and for the last month of launch.

 

They needed to slow gamers down in the only thing that was brought NEW to the game at max level. The massive GRIND.

 

And what are we grinding for in the alliance system? A few extra companions that we will never use. None of the new companions you get from completing Star Fortresses are interesting. So there's really no point in doing it now. AFAIK, we didn't get any new alliance alerts and who knows if we get any more until more story comes out. If they are doing this to slow the pace for everyone, and I agree this is a possible explanation, there at least needs to be a purpose to do this. The alliance system as of now is not fleshed out enough to compel me to do repetitive content at this pace. I could barely stand the grind before the nerf especially with my alts.

[DamienRay]

Sorry BW, but your game is not fun anymore. Tested your nerf to companions and spent more time defeated than enjoying the content. Just my experience. No renewal coming from me. It was fun while it lasted.

[Pookan]

I can confirm - Paladin Knight in H2 Star Fortress just destroying my Sorcerer. 216 gear, companion rank 36. Used self healing, used barriers, used grenade from alliance chest, used heroic moment

I tried both Lightning and Madness, and i tried both tanking and healing companion. AND ITS NOT EVEN FINAL BOSS, JUST A PALADIN.

 

75% nerf too strong, #BUFFCOMPANIONS Bioware. Or we riot

Edited November 18, 2015 by Pookan

[Deathsightofhell]

Except there isn't an MMO feel anymore except for the people that want it. There is no MMO feel when everything that matters can be soloed. Attracting new players is all fine and dandy but content should be developed for the veteran players first and foremost. New players haven't been here for years loyally playing the game. Veteran players have.

 

A new player isn't going to see that. They are going to see they can do everything that matters story wise without having to do any side content. Even with the companion downgrade and new players people still aren't doing most of the MMO aspects. On Taris today a new player was asking if I wanted to do a 2+ Heroic mission. I told him that they aren't required and to just focus on story stuff and he did.

 

Please do tell how a Vet ismuch different then person just joining, I play in the Beta and quit playing for a long time, and come back, by law, i'm an Veteran of the game itself , does that mean Dev shouldn't listen to me? or they should, cause the way you talk , make you very confusing when even Veteran who like the amazing healing with comp enjoyable , and newer player are just going have a bigger struggle now.

 

Heck using a levle 60 token and startin the FE, is very hard with an bad healer at 0 affection , and They made the token so NEW player can play with Veterans , or Player who haven't play in a long time, catch up in decent gear ......... your point are very little in the over-view of things

[Quraswren]

Interesting reading, thanks. Having said that, I'm not letting you off the hook that easily. You claim that companions should be powerful but not so much so that they're better than your own character who is, for all intents and purposes, the hero of your story. I would tend to agree since the game tells you time and again that your hero is special. However, this explanation breaks down when applied to the concept of level sync. After all, my hero is, for instance, level 60. Why should he be paired down to the level of Korriban mobs? What is the (ingame) reasoning behind that? Simply put, none. In other words, you wield one argument for nerfing companions, and a different one for nerfing the PC. Isn't that a double standard? If I'm powerful, I'm the same powerful for my allies as well as for my enemies. So, let's dispense with the thought that this is done because companions are overshadowing you (which is mentioned) and stick with the thought that it's done because they overshadow gameplay (also mentioned); in other words, they make playing the game too easy.

 

Please define "easy" and "hard" for me. I'll give you a minute. On second thought, take an hour. That's right, it varies from player to player. Ultimately, however, I can confidently state we don't play games because of how easy or hard they are; we play them to have fun. Now, for some, the fun is in having some kind of challenge, facing it, and successfully overcoming it, and I readily admit it feels pretty good. The question then becomes, what do you consider a challenge? I'll tell you what it's not for me, personally.

 

A challenge is not making an enemy tougher or making yourself (and your companions) weaker to the point that it simply takes more time to beat them. After all, what can be challenging about spending time? Nothing. A challenge, for me, will involve a powerful enemy, yes, with abilities that a team of players need to counter in the right way. It involves players learning to work together; learning what (and what not) to do, how to do it, and when to do it. Sound familiar? It should. It's what happens in good FP & Op runs which: a) don't involve companions but other players; and b) even have difficulty levels. It's been a while since you've introduced any more of these challenges, though, hasn't it?

 

Normal PvE content (quests, heroics) is not particularly challenging (again, by my definition of challenge). There's no team here, just you, so "challenges" are more often that not enemies with large HP and/or damage output. Sure, you have a companion who you can micromanage (to a point) but mostly all overcoming the "challenge" comes down to is being in the same level range (aka, not feeling suicidal), having appropriate gear (simplified after KotFE), and knowing your rotation (you can probably win without the last one even). Depending on the combination of these factors, enemies will take or more less time to defeat and, like I've said, there's nothing challenging about spending time.

 

To sum up this rather long rant, nerfing companions won't make the game any harder, it'll just force me to spend more time to do the same thing I previously did in less. Where's the fun in that? Where's the challenge in that? I'm all for a challenge. Introduce more FPs and Ops; we've been waiting a while for those.

 

PS: And I didn't even mention PvP content!

 

Very well said. All this nerf did was add more grind to the new grind. No real fun or entertainment added, just more grind to a part of the game that didn't need it. A part of the game where people just wanted to sit back and have a bit of solo fun at leisure.

 

I can't be thankful to BW for that.

[Ferretfur]

75% nerf too strong, #BUFFCOMPANIONS Bioware. Or we riot

 

What should be the case is that an Influence level 10 Companion should be as good as the same stance of companion was pre-4.0 and anything after that should be an improvement, which currently does not appear to be the case. Influence level 10 should be the base point for adjustment considerations.

 

For me, my Influence level 26 healer certainly doesn't heal as well as my Yavin geared healer used to, which is certainly disappointing.

[freeoftime]

Level 27 synched to level 26 Vengeance Jugg, Quinn at rank 6, gear is rated 66 to 72 (72 being what I get from heroic quest lockboxes at my level), tried out all 3 stances and did one of the old bonus series heroics on Nar, so mobs were level 26 as well.

 

Tanking was the least painful, dps and even moreso heals were horrible. Switched back to healing for the champion boss and Quinn's heals were utterly *pathetic*. I soloed Heroic 4s when being a bit overleveled for them on my first SW over a year ago with no presence unlocks and I definitely remember Quinn doing a better job then than he did just now. I interrupted, used DCDs, followed rotation as much as I can at this level (I miss getting Shien early......) and he still couldn't keep up enough to avoid using a medpac and even then he only just so managed to keep me alive (and it was a green one, not one of those crappy white ones you get as drops and from med droids). Doable? I guess. Fun? Not one bit. I was looking forward to using Heroic quests that I hadn't done much during leveling and skip the occassional planet story for characters that probably wouldn't get involved in it, but I guess not. Gonna try things on my SI I do the alliance grind on, if it's as bad as this was, there goes my motivation to bring any more toons into KotFE -- or make new ones for the new romances.

 

Well done overdoing it again, guys :/

 

(Like, seriously, he was doing heals for 85 HP when my Jugg has 5869, that's just ridiculous. Maybe before heals were OP -- though I'll fully admit I enjoyed it that way, made the stupid Alliance grind less annoying -- but now heals are practically useless.)

[Deathsightofhell]

My companions average heal is 800-900, or approximately 1% of my total HP. As a DPS character with less armor rating, minimal defensive skills and no self heals, my companion is simply incapable of keeping me up long enough to survive.

 

2 days ago I blew through H2+ Star Fortress content without problems. Today I can't even finish it solo because my companion can't heal fast enough to keep up with incoming damage, and I'm in 220 gear!

 

Welcome to my boat, the 3rd core is a lviing nightmare for my Sith Assassin, and i'm Decs, I should be part tank ability, no self heals really (heroic moment/ mass mind control) only, and use all my heroic ability to drop mobs down fast? seem like someone who doesn't have even all 4 buff will have harder time , so people with their 1st character ever walk into SF , being told heroic 2+ can be use with companion from the dev themself, will just regret their whole life over quickly.

 

 

The might Buff seem to be the most thing helpin my compions to heal 2-4k and that is Sad

[Blurch]

Absolutely! It certainly may be a bit more challenging than before but you can complete them. The intent is that you can complete any [Heroic 2] with your Companion counting as one of the two. If you find this isn't true for any Heroics tomorrow, let us know.

 

-eric

 

What ever Eric.. You (not you personally) but the brain trust you work for made playing the Scoundrel impossible now. I was a subscriber since launch and yesterday I unsubscribed and have no intentions on coming back unless you turn the companions back they way they were. Right now I'm deciding on selling everything and deleting the characters so I have nothing to come back to if I wanted to or not. Every time I play I'm leaning towards DELETING. I my self am boycotting anything and everything EA/Bioware and hoping that Disney will not reinstate your contract.

[Glower]

Saw it on reddit:

 

Level 65 Companion comparison pre/post patch

 

Took a few tooltip stats down last night on Xalek and just compared them. DPS nerf looks reasonable. Healing nerf looks a tad excessive, but I almost always run with DPS, so I'm not sure how it will play out for folks.

 

lvl 65 toon - Xalek lvl 10 influence:

(heal)Soothe: 10214, patched: 2654-4109

(heal)Mending: 3850, patched: 4977

(heal)Enlivening Force: 14871, Patched: 3413

(dps)Pummel: 8312-8494, patched: 5905-6088

(dps)Finishing Strike: 15502-15842, patched: 11015-11354

(dps)Ground Quake: 3665-3745, patched: 2603-2683

 

lvl 65 toon - Xalek lvl 38 influence:

Soothe: 11787, patched: 3277-4741

mending: 4445, patched: 5908

enlivening force: 17160, Patched: 4051

Pummel: 11105-11132, patched: 7338 - 7365

Finishing Strike: 20711-20762, patched: 13687-13738

ground quake : 4898-4910, patched: 3236-3248

 

"back in line" yeah GG

Edited November 18, 2015 by Glower

[Pookan]

Yep, I cant kill Yoran Zarr (Hoth paladin) in 216 gear. Alliance buff, sentry turret, scrambler grenade, heroic moment, every cooldown like polarity shift, healing myself with barrier and UP/Resurgence - its no use.

 

GG WP

[Batwer]

What can I say ? It has come just as I predicted ... the " new " are healers even worse than the prior 4.0 . Had not thought that it may go even more down , but you taught me always better . Well done, I 'm proud of you.

 

The part does not heal regularly provide , not even himself , dies every few meters . I can also play without companions , saves nerves. It should play without companions are looking for a challenge and not vice versa . Make the cheese again reversed and you think of something else .

[Makillda]

Level 27 synched to level 26 Vengeance Jugg, Quinn at rank 6, gear is rated 66 to 72 (72 being what I get from heroic quest lockboxes at my level), tried out all 3 stances and did one of the old bonus series heroics on Nar, so mobs were level 26 as well.

 

Tanking was the least painful, dps and even moreso heals were horrible. Switched back to healing for the champion boss and Quinn's heals were utterly *pathetic*. I soloed Heroic 4s when being a bit overleveled for them on my first SW over a year ago with no presence unlocks and I definitely remember Quinn doing a better job then than he did just now. I interrupted, used DCDs, followed rotation as much as I can at this level (I miss getting Shien early......) and he still couldn't keep up enough to avoid using a medpac and even then he only just so managed to keep me alive (and it was a green one, not one of those crappy white ones you get as drops and from med droids). Doable? I guess. Fun? Not one bit. I was looking forward to using Heroic quests that I hadn't done much during leveling and skip the occassional planet story for characters that probably wouldn't get involved in it, but I guess not. Gonna try things on my SI I do the alliance grind on, if it's as bad as this was, there goes my motivation to bring any more toons into KotFE -- or make new ones for the new romances.

 

Well done overdoing it again, guys :/

 

(Like, seriously, he was doing heals for 85 HP when my Jugg has 5869, that's just ridiculous. Maybe before heals were OP -- though I'll fully admit I enjoyed it that way, made the stupid Alliance grind less annoying -- but now heals are practically useless.)

 

I'm leveling a Jedi Knight in tank spec right now and played through Nar Shadda last night with Kira as dps. I'm still mowing everything down with only a bit more downtime between pulls. However, I do have Datacron Master and all but 3 classes through Chap 3.

[giorgo]

Companions are fine now really.I solo completed star fortress last night just to test the nerf.Notice that I don't do raids,only pvp and few heroics per week.I was a combat sentinel with T-7 as companion,influence level 21.Only had 2 alliance specialists to level 10 so I had only 2 special abilities from them.My gear was 208 pvp gear with power crystals instead of expertise,full augmented.

 

The flashpoint is soloable even with pvp gear.My companion died once (oh the horror!!!) because I didn't pay attention at the start given how op companions were before.After that no problems at all.The difference is that now you have to use your defensive cd's and play the class properly.Use medpacks,adrenals (I did not use adrenals btw) AOE cc,even use heroic moment (it's there for a reason).

 

I won't even speak for the planetary heroics where your health never drops below 85% .