Melee agents

[ecana]

Fix melee agents. Not next month....like soon. I'm sure any one who's been on the sharp end of their knife agrees.

[Powercow]

Fix melee agents. Not next month....like soon. I'm sure any one who's been on the sharp end of their knife agrees.

Knee-jerk nerfs have never backfired!

 

Honestly the initial burst from an Operative/Scoundrel isn't all that amazing against level 50s. Plus they're kinda supposed to be assassins -- if they catch you alone or far enough away from your team, they can and should punish you.

[Grimhand]

Knee-jerk nerfs have never backfired!

 

Honestly the initial burst from an Operative/Scoundrel isn't all that amazing against level 50s. Plus they're kinda supposed to be assassins -- if they catch you alone or far enough away from your team, they can and should punish you.

 

Snipers/Gunslingers on the other hand.

[ecana]

Knee-jerk nerfs have never backfired!

 

Honestly the initial burst from an Operative/Scoundrel isn't all that amazing against level 50s. Plus they're kinda supposed to be assassins -- if they catch you alone or far enough away from your team, they can and should punish you.

 

They have been killing me all day in under 4 seconds. And im a lvl 50 tank. Thats 17 k hp with my shields up...4 seconds. All day.

[Powercow]

They have been killing me all day in under 4 seconds. And im a lvl 50 tank. Thats 17 k hp with my shields up...4 seconds. All day.

Under 4 seconds is 2 global cooldowns. There are no attacks that Operatives have that could do 8.5k damage per hit once, let alone twice.

[Necrosov]

Use your CC breaker when they knock you down with hidden strike and melt their face -it's not hard. On top of that your now at a full resolve bar... GG

[Zingas]

I don't see any issue with Operatives/Scoundrels. They are well balanced.

[AntoniusDelitan]

I don't see any issue with Operatives/Scoundrels. They are well balanced.

 

You have to think to beat them!!

 

NEEEEERF!!!

[GenericBadGuy]

Back in 2010 Scoundrels got their shotgun knockback at level 12, untalented, usable from any angle, it didn't require Stealth, and it was spammable.

 

 

These days Playing a Scoundrel/Operative pre-40 is such a drag from 40 on we deserve a little predatory fun here and there.

[kopecs]

Under 4 seconds is 2 global cooldowns. There are no attacks that Operatives have that could do 8.5k damage per hit once, let alone twice.

 

 

You sir have never been stunned then shot in the back of the head/stabbed in the back by one of these have you?

 

happened to me as well lol. i went from 13k Hp down to 25% in meer seconds i say. Redonkulous.

[Powercow]

You sir have never been stunned then shot in the back of the head/stabbed in the back by one of these have you?

 

happened to me as well lol. i went from 13k Hp down to 25% in meer seconds i say. Redonkulous.

I've killed people with 13k HP in 6 seconds before -- that's not impossible at all, it just requires the right setup.

 

What is impossible is to do it in 3. We have no attacks that can hit for 8,500 damage in a single hit -- much less do it twice in a row.

[SeanPoe]

4.5 seconds is 4 gcds (one at zero seconds, one at 1.5 seconds, one at 3 seconds, one at 4.5 seconds). The average level 50 has about 14k hp, so that's only 3500 per global. Shoot first crits upwards of 4200, flechette round dot does around 1500 over it's duration, back shot does around 3.2k, then the melee attack does around 2500, so in only 3 gcds, you're at 11400 damage (which is about the average for any non-50). Another thing you can do is shoot first, vanish, into another shoot first, back-shot, melee attack, which is 15600 total damage in 3 gcds.

 

I think scrappers do too much out of stealth burst but way to little sustained damage. If they were to nerf only shoot first and not buff the sustained damage then the class would be pretty terrible.

[Powercow]

4.5 seconds is 4 gcds (one at zero seconds, one at 1.5 seconds, one at 3 seconds, one at 4.5 seconds). The average level 50 has about 14k hp, so that's only 3500 per global. Shoot first crits upwards of 4200, flechette round dot does around 1500 over it's duration, back shot does around 3.2k, then the melee attack does around 2500, so in only 3 gcds, you're at 11400 damage (which is about the average for any non-50). Another thing you can do is shoot first, vanish, into another shoot first, back-shot, melee attack, which is 15600 total damage in 3 gcds.

 

I think scrappers do too much out of stealth burst but way to little sustained damage. If they were to nerf only shoot first and not buff the sustained damage then the class would be pretty terrible.

Right, assuming you crit with everything and are against one undergeared or squishy opponent with his trinket down, no allies around, and you have your cooldowns up, you will kill him.

 

And, of course, assuming the opponent isn't a 17k HP tank like the OP said. 17k HP would be full Champion gear (more or less), which would be over 10% expertise, 7% from the stance, and probably another few % less from the heightened armor. Oh, and under 4 seconds, so there's not even that last attack there -- just the one at 0, 1.5, and 3.0.

[kopecs]

Right, assuming you crit with everything and are against one undergeared or squishy opponent with his trinket down, no allies around, and you have your cooldowns up, you will kill him.

 

And, of course, assuming the opponent isn't a 17k HP tank like the OP said. 17k HP would be full Champion gear (more or less), which would be over 10% expertise, 7% from the stance, and probably another few % less from the heightened armor. Oh, and under 4 seconds, so there's not even that last attack there -- just the one at 0, 1.5, and 3.0.

 

Maybe you need to learn from your other buddies then and find out what they are doing

[Powercow]

Maybe you need to learn from your other buddies then and find out what they are doing

Maybe you should not exaggerate your claims.

 

Oh wait, you're the squishy who got wrecked by an assassin character. Nevermind.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Powercow

[Lina_Inverse]

Right, assuming you crit with everything and are against one undergeared or squishy opponent with his trinket down, no allies around, and you have your cooldowns up, you will kill him.

 

And, of course, assuming the opponent isn't a 17k HP tank like the OP said. 17k HP would be full Champion gear (more or less), which would be over 10% expertise, 7% from the stance, and probably another few % less from the heightened armor. Oh, and under 4 seconds, so there's not even that last attack there -- just the one at 0, 1.5, and 3.0.

 

What you don't understand is that fully geared opearatives aren't critting 4.2k when they have champ gear. They're critting 6k, on tanks, at the absolute maximum(i.e. red buff) and typically above 5k.

 

I do agree with the assessment made that they can't just have shoot first/hidden strike nerfed, the damage would have to be moved to out of steatlh skills or it would kill the class.

 

That said, I have seen full champ geared tanks with 19k hp and ~500 expertise dropped in 4 globals with the vanish tactic. It does require a lucky string of crits and does not happen often, but it happens. I've also seen people 3shot before they could recover from the knockdown (at 50 in decent amounts champ gear, typically assassins in dps stances or sorcs). It's all buried somewhere in my stream footage. I can't feasibly see this skill persisting in its current state for too long anyway, given their previous posts on not wanting dominating alpha strikes to exist in this game.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Lina_Inverse

[Powercow]

What you don't understand is that fully geared opearatives aren't critting 4.2k when they have champ gear. They're critting 6k, on tanks, at the absolute maximum(i.e. red buff) and typically above 5k.

 

I do agree with the assessment made that they can't just have shoot first/hidden strike nerfed, the damage would have to be moved to out of steatlh skills or it would kill the class.

 

That said, I have seen full champ geared tanks with 19k hp and ~500 expertise dropped in 4 globals with the vanish tactic. It does require a lucky string of crits and does not happen often, but it happens. I've also seen people 3shot before they could recover from the knockdown (at 50 in decent amounts champ gear, typically assassins in dps stances or sorcs). It's all buried somewhere in my stream footage. I can't feasibly see this skill persisting in its current state for too long anyway, given their previous posts on not wanting dominating alpha strikes to exist in this game.

I will agree that the double HB/SF thing is cheap. The simple solution is to add a short cooldown (say, 9 seconds) to prevent using it twice in a row.

[ChickenWangs]

You sir have never been stunned then shot in the back of the head/stabbed in the back by one of these have you?

 

happened to me as well lol. i went from 13k Hp down to 25% in meer seconds i say. Redonkulous.

 

While I see what you are saying there are ways to avoid such things. Use your ability to break out of stuns immediately, stun them, bring all your dps and debuffs you can to bear = profit

[CaptainInsano]

Concealment is garbage outside of stealth. Runs out of energy quickly and damage abilities are gated, plus the opener auto fills the target's resolve bar making them immune to all CC. If the burst gets nerfed the class is gonna need changes elsewhere including a gap closer, knockback, and more sustained reliable damage because currently it's a one trick pony.

[kopecs]

Maybe you should not exaggerate your claims.

 

Oh wait, you're the squishy who got wrecked by an assassin character. Nevermind.

 

Actualy i play a Marauder. I had 3 pieces of PvP gear lol. your argument is invalid. once again it seems you need to learn how to play yoru class better. Some dude alrady posted his Operetive stats on the forums about going immortal (that's 50 kills, 0 deaths). Did 368 thousand damage.

[Reenolols]

Actualy i play a Marauder. I had 3 pieces of PvP gear lol. your argument is invalid. once again it seems you need to learn how to play yoru class better. Some dude alrady posted his Operetive stats on the forums about going immortal (that's 50 kills, 0 deaths). Did 368 thousand damage.

 

That guy didn't even do anything impressive, I've done 507k with 78-0. Assassin can be just as powerful, but there seems to be less of them that know how to play.

[kopecs]

That guy didn't even do anything impressive, I've done 507k with 78-0. Assassin can be just as powerful, but there seems to be less of them that know how to play.

 

I know that lol. I'm jsut trying to explain that melee agents do in fact hit hard if you know how to play them. And the fact that people in my guild have had the problem of losing 70% or more of HP from the shotgun/backstab to the back of the head.

[WINTER__x]

im also L50 tank with 16k hp, i find these guys melt me incredibly fast, its hopeless to resist, even when i pop my mitigation cooldowns etc, no idea what the heck is going on with them right now Edited December 28, 2011 by WINTER__x

[Dirtydurst]

As a Jedi Shadow I sincerely hope that I don't get **** on by this class.

[DrekorSilverfang]

You sir have never been stunned then shot in the back of the head/stabbed in the back by one of these have you?

 

happened to me as well lol. i went from 13k Hp down to 25% in meer seconds i say. Redonkulous.

Me(L30 Merc bolstered to 50) vs L50 operative... took him about 12 seconds to drop me from 100% to 0% with me standing there not fighting back. I could have easily stunned him, knocked him back, healed myself, shielded myself etc etc.

 

Stop exaggerating.