BioWare: take the feedback for once and increase difficulty going forward

[Vhaegrant]

Well yes the market is casual. But the size of the hardcore base is important. If it's say, 1%, then a minority that small hardly merits Bioware devoting time money and effort to accommodate them. But if it's 35% ? That's a very substantial size of their profits, and would demand changes to accommodate them, even if they're still technically a minority.

I would say the hardcore base is not that interested in solo content. If they are it's only to see how fast they can level to max and wear out their spacebar. The hardcore players would be retained through operations and PvP.

 

An old argument has always been to separate the mechanics between PvE and PvP, maybe it could be taken further to separate the game into group and solo content.

 

You start to lose the Jack of all trades master of none that an mmo lumbers under and instead start to have separate games that share a central account/ social hub and art assets.

[Swissbob]

I would say the hardcore base is not that interested in solo content. .

 

Fair enough. I was only using that term because he was. After all, I don't consider myself "hard core" (I rarely if every do operations or hardmode FP's) but I'm interested in solo content.

 

So yeah, I don't really think hardcore is the right term to use here. More like "not casual" I suppose. Or just "those interested in solo content being challenging" to be the most accurate.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Swissbob

[Ottoattack]

I never said you claimed anything ... you are simply misinterpreting my response if you look closely i did mention i was takeing this out of context in the hopes a different comparison would help you see my point.

 

.......but that failed and went very far above your head.

 

So for this matter i am going to just say we can agree to disagree on this point.

 

 

 

Fun is subjective. How can you have "normal" on a subjective topic? Again to use a different example what is a normal pizza? Stop tryingto find "normal" based on your personal beliefs

 

Actually I do, in my life time (which is not that long) I played probably a couple of hundred video games among different genres, on different platforms with varying difficulties. They do require the player on easy mode to actually move their character, understand basic game mechanics and sometimes, how dare I say, go beyond that a bit in the final stages. I have not had the honor before of playing a game where I just stand there press one-two button and everything dies. Even in the good old Gameboy days (I miss you Mario). So yes, my personal expectation based on a couple of hundred video games that I played is that I should, maybe try to control my character?

 

But who am I to define what is expected norm of a video game. According to Wikipedia (I know they are no a valid resource) "A video game is an electronic game that involves human interaction with a user interface to generate visual feedback on a video device such as a TV screen or computer monitor." The word "interaction" is key here. I think you are confusing TV show with video games. I hate to break it to you this not a TV show. It is video game, MMO to be exact, which due to cost are intensive game with supposedly major replayability. There is not much room for replayability pressing 1-2 buttons.

[Kalfear]

Another thread to complain about something that a very small minority experience.

 

LOL I have not met a single player who thinks the difficulty setting is even remotely close to where it should be outside of OPS and HM Flashpoints

 

NOT ONE

 

I think you desperately need to widen your social circle and admit your lack of ability if you truly think this issue only commented on by a small minority.

[_NovaBlast_]

Another thread to complain about something that a very small minority experience

 

 

LOL I have not met a single player who thinks the difficulty setting is even remotely close to where it should be outside of OPS and HM Flashpoints

 

NOT ONE

 

I think you desperately need to widen your social circle and admit your lack of ability if you truly think this issue only commented on by a small minority.

 

He is right .

 

Your one to talk ... before you comment on others in reality your the one that needs to look in the mirror..... but that would not even do any good .... even if someone told you the earth was round you would insist that it is flat.

 

Just the fact that this thread has people who say things are fine the way are makes your whole statement sound foolish.

 

Its for that reason alone i learned lonnnnnnnnng ago not to even bother trying to have a conversation with you. why unlike my other response you only warrant a couple of sentences.

Edited November 4, 2015 by _NovaBlast_

[Thunderstriken]

For the love of god you can just sit there and spam regular attack while eating a sandwich, no casual can tell me anything about it feels right. The story is great but the entire experience feels lackluster given no effort goes into anything you fight.

 

Who's feedback do you want them to take? My feedback is give story line mobs far fewer hitpoints and make companions about twice as powerful as they are now. Your feedback probably differs from mine, perhaps even exactly opposite? I guess we should just let them handle making gameplay decisions and us players should concentrate on playing the game in the manner we find most enjoyable.

 

For me, that means beat the ever lovin' tar out of my space bar to skip through the dialog and mow down mobs in a direct path to the button I'm supposed to push so that I can quick travel back and start skipping through the next dialog. I'm not a big fan of single player games, especially RPGs, but I've played a few really good ones. SWTOR isn't a very good single player RPG at all in my opinion, but that's fine with me because I don't want it to be. I'm here entirely for the MMO part of the MMORPG.

 

You might want to sip tea and sniff rose petals as you skip through the single player story line carrying on conversations with your companion. Hey, fall in love and marry your companion for all I care, but I'm looking for the real people on the other side of the single player story.

 

Finally, when this game first came out the single player story crap was a lot more difficult than it was even before the update. However, it was never very challenging, just more time consuming. The nature of an RPG is that it's exceedingly difficult to make a compelling single player challenge as the fights are so one dimensional. That's why I personally have lost all taste for single player RPG. You can make the fights longer sure, but not really more challenging and certainly not more fun. In fact, when it comes to a very boring one dimensional fight, the shorter the better if you ask me.

[Beachdudeca]

I agree , challenge for all mobs should be at a standard Heroic 2 + where a single toon and a companion can manage ,

[well]

How did you manage that?

 

People are reporting that their seven year old grandkids are going through that content by slapping one or two buttons.

 

I went through on a premade without any gear upgrades other than two or three crummy drops and played with my dog while doing it.

 

 

Good thing it is the internet where people don't lie.

People they say they want a challenge. Easy.

Put on some 118 gear.

Do not add influence to your companions.

Run all companions as DPS.

Run a DPS yourself.

Have fun. Make sure to record it.

Edited November 4, 2015 by well

[heythereqt]

So you too think the ~30% (using the poll he sourced) should just pack up and leave, rather than posting to the forums in hope the devs give them the option to make them happy as well as the 2/3 majority.

 

Well, if nothing changes, you'll likely eventually get your wish.

 

Of course not. Nowhere in my post did I refer to wanting or thinking anything like that. I would like as many subs to remain as possible.

 

With that said, if a person's mentality is "give me what I (the minority) want or I'm leaving," then I have no intention of trying to keep them here against their will. I'm sure other games could always use more self-entitled customers.

 

But honestly, if the difficulty level of grind-oriented trash mobs is such a big deal breaker for certain people that they decide to leave the game because of it...then this isn't the MMO for them anyway. There are plenty of other games out there that offer endless difficult trash mobs to grind. I don't miss them

[sentientomega]

I agree , challenge for all mobs should be at a standard Heroic 2 + where a single toon and a companion can manage ,

 

BW:A doesn't agree, neither do I.

 

However, let's take your suggestion further anyway, and have every mob as a 16m NiM max level boss, on every planet.

[LordArtemis]

There are options in place.

 

Set your comp to heals.

Set your comp to DPS.

DISARM your comp.

Set your comp to passive.

Undergear yourself.

Dismiss your comp. (not reliable)

DO NOT build influence past level 10 if possible.

Do not gear presence or use presence buffs.

Toggle companion abilities off.

 

Now, despite all of that that can be done, it is pretty silly to do some of it. Frankly folks have been undergearing and dismissing companions since the launch of the game to set their own difficulty level.

 

With the removal of gear and the dependence on your own stats (based on level), players no longer have the option to undergear their companions to weaken them a bit. This is not fair, IMO, to hardcore players.

 

That is why I support an optional way to reduce their strength....something like disabling influence. If Influence is disabled, a huge amount of presence goes poof. This provides a way for hardcore players to enjoy a higher difficulty level without engaging in silly activities to try and dumb down their companions, while not affecting other players that enjoy companions as they are (myself included).

 

I personally like my tank companions and healers at 50, and my DPS at 30 or so. I try to tailor the level to suit my specific needs and desires for challenge depending on my play style.

 

Healers in this game are made of paper, while companions make good tanks the same way screen doors are great for deep sea subs....so I need the comp to be as powerful as possible, to grab and hold aggro.

 

If im running DPS I like to concentrate on my target management. Having a strong healer comp helps with this, but their low health does make them venerable, so they are certainly not gods in healing mode....unless they are healing themselves. They then seem to become petrified trees at level 50....

 

If I want a challenge I run two dps, down my gear a bit and have at it. I have characters set up specifically for this...and die often. But the challenge is fun.

 

Depends on my mood...sometimes I want to get it done, other times I want to think it through.

 

Options are good. Forced is not IMO.

Edited November 4, 2015 by LordArtemis

[Swissbob]

Of course not. Nowhere in my post did I refer to wanting or thinking anything like that. D

 

Well, you said

 

This. This. And more this. ^

 

to

the constant creating of these threads is annoying. The people have spoken. The majority is fine with it. If you don't like it ..play a different game.

 

And by saying "This this and more this", to the above post, I assumed you agreed with it.... thus not wanting the game to change, not wanting us to talk about it on the forums and instead leave if we don't like it.

 

You can see how I arrived at the conclusion you thought the same thing as the poster when you said "this" to what he said.

 

With that said, if a person's mentality is "give me what I (the minority) want or I'm leaving," then I have no intention of trying to keep them here against their will. I'm sure other games could always use more self-entitled customers.

 

Yeah, why should paying customers feel entitled to leave if the game if their interests aren't met and the game isn't fun for them? They should keep paying their hard earned money on a game that isn't fun for them because their interests are in the minority, the ungrateful, self-entitled scum!

 

But honestly, if the difficulty level of grind-oriented trash mobs is such a big deal breaker for certain people that they decide to leave the game because of it...then this isn't the MMO for them anyway. There are plenty of other games out there that offer endless difficult trash mobs to grind. I don't miss them

 

It's not just that. It's the general dumbing down and casualizing of the game over time, which, of course, over time will drive the "hardcore" players away. After all, a casual game is not what "hardcore" players want

Edited November 4, 2015 by Swissbob

[Neglience]

No majority has spoken on anything. No one knows what the majority wants even BW does not and BW does not even care. They do not make their decisions on what players want (maybe they should).

 

Every thread made, every poll posted has huge flaws that just not allow to determine any kind of majority.

 

When BW starts to do forced polls on all accounts (which they could but they do not want to do), you can start to talk about majority's.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Neglience

[Kalfear]

He is right .

 

*insert bunch of whining*

 

Nope hes wrong, move on

[erei]

BW spent the last years dumbing down the difficulty. In fact, they can't really dumb it further, unless they add an "auto play" feature, that will play the game for you while you pick the answers during convos. I don't see why they would suddenly increase it.

 

No consequential choices for skill tree ? Check. Auto-filled skill tree ? Check. Less abilities ? Check. Flashing skill to tell you what to play ? Check. Uber-companions that practically play the game for you ? Check. No more class based attribute, because apparently it was too confusing ? Check ! Crit stats merged, because it was also way too confusing ? Check.

And when it comes to story, as seen in KOTFE : giant warning in the middle of screen when you are about to start a romance ? Check !

 

I'm pretty sure I could do any regular fight by just clicking on flashing skill in my bar, and not even watching the fight. In fact, I could even do that while not knowing the class at all, because the tree spec is auto-filled, and all I have to do is click on the glowing skills.

[Heromofo]

No thanks dont play swtor as an mmo anymore just play it for the story and i enjoy feeling powerful.

[Danylia]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=847514

There is challenging content in the game. Some people may still consider it too easy, but they may very well be under the Dunning-Kruger effect influence. Bioware's approach - wide accessibility to main content (Story, solo modes) and side activities for those seeking more challenge (HM Flashpoints, HM/NiM Operations, H2 Star Fortress mode) is, in my opinion, a wise one.

 

If anything, I'd love to see something like Proving Grounds here. Bioware did a good job with providing alternatives for both "casual" and "hardcore" players - it would be great if they would also ensure these two groups don't (un)intentionally mix, as that leads to disillusion of the former and frustration of the latter.

[Tarkashae]

Think about what you are asking.

 

Then think about all the complaints and rage posts from the toadlickers who can't read or understand simple directions. Even now, after the game is retarded level easy.

 

Do you see why BW/EA can't make it harder? They'd lose money.

[Riven]

I'm for the most part in total support of the changes introduced with 4.0. Level sync is a superb idea, making things more casual friendly is sure to bring in more subs and more story is simply the best thing since launch. That being said THIS GAME IS TOO EASY NOW.

 

I work full time and don't have the time to play more than a few hours a week. I think that classifies me as a casual player. But there is a difference in gamplay between casual and plain boring. Please realize this game was easy before 4.0, in fact there has never been a point where it hasn't been easy. However with the changes in 4.0 it just became dull. I used to solo H2s before, but it required care, paying attention to things and using the skills at your disposal (interrupts, CC, etc.). Now I can steam roll through everything without even realy looking at the screen. Not only is this not fun, but in regards to new players it will leave them ill equppied to participate in any form of elder game.

 

Again I welcome new players and I'm glad if people are enjoying the content, but I would also like them to keep playing and for them to become part of the community. With the direction of the difficulty I don't see that happening. People WILL get bored of face rolling through the same content and once they enter any thing that is remotely more difficult they will fail...HARD! You don't learn to interrupt unless you need to interrupt. You don't learn to CC or to not break CC unless there is a need to. You don't learn that standing in red circles is bad if they don't hurt you. Simply put you don't learn any of the neccessary gameplay mechanics for the elder game unless you are eased into them through experience during your regular solo play.

 

So please, consider that asking for a bit higher difficulty is (at least for me) by far from just a sefish request, but an honest care for the lasting success of SWTOR.

[LordJestR]

Story mode content is not meant to be a challenge at all. Pre 4.0 the mobs just hit harder, resulting in more down time per pull to heal up. If you define that as challenging then well, you might want to invest in a dictionary.

[sentientomega]

The WoW Proving Grounds that Danylia showed here sounds like an excellent idea for an actual learning curve, if this had been in SWTOR, I'd not've touched group content until I'd done plenty of this, first.

[LordArtemis]

Asking for the option to make the game harder would likely be good for the game IMO.

 

Asking for the difficulty level to be increased overall as a forced change or a new more difficult direction would likely be bad for the game overall.

 

The former would provide what hardcore players need, like all of the other more difficult content in the game. The latter would likely hurt the games growth and perhaps overall appeal.

[Galentor]

I see the word "challenge" being used a lot in these posts. Let's put things in perspective shall we ?

 

SWTOR's solo / leveling content like in most modern theme park mmo's was never challenging. However, it did require a small amount of effort and player INTERACTION. On certain boss, elite, champion fights players had to push a key in order to interrupt an ability or had to take 2 steps away and move the hero out of bad stuff on the ground. Sometimes the use of a defensive skill was also needed, another key press. That was all.

 

With 4.0 this minimal effort requirement is gone and the game virtually plays itself like an interactive movie. Bioware clearly caters to a new plentiful breed of players which brings cash, the breed which wants everything handed to them with 0 effort, the breed which cba to learn some very basic stuff regarding class / gameplay and yet is entitled to everything.

 

KotFE is still fresh and whatever negative think is outshined by novelty. I just hope that this new approach won't hurt the game in the long run.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Galentor

[AndreiBolkonsky]

This is nothing new, one of the reasons why I stopped playing was that I did literally fall asleep more than once while doing dailies. The only fun solo gameplay has always been trying to solo group content like hm flashpoints.

 

They should really do something about it and make gameplay more interesting. One thing is to like the story, another very different thing is to want to play a visual novel, story by itself isn't enough. Unfortunately people (and Bioware) seem to confuse soloers with "casuals" that don't know how to play.

[Divona]

It is still mind boggling why few still asking over and over somekind magical "challenge" in solo mode?

Ther are plenty of content for HM and challenges to do. Soloing isnt considered anything to be challenging. It is ment to be fun and easy. New heroics system was also changed not because all is suddenly easy.