Would you PvP if Expertise was removed?

[EnkiduNineEight]

I thought copying WoW and creating a PVP stat was foolish from the beginning. The rationale for it was weak. They didn't want PVP raiders to have access to the very best equipment/stats and thus alienate the PVP players by making them go PVE to PVP. It is very simple to provide stats on equipment of equivalent value by making them available in other manners such as PVP vendors and based on putting in an equivalent time/effort cost to achieve.

 

But then they worried raiders would be upset that their uber shiny gear wasn't exclusive to them and their style of play.

 

Which demonstrates a flaw in a gearflation game. Focusing on gear stats alone as a measurement of reward generally puts the game in a poor territory. SWTOR made it even worse because they decided incremental growth for each gear tier wasn't viable so the jumps they made were absolutely _crazy_ and this made gearflation even worse.

 

Considerign the tack they have taken recently with gear, its quite easy for anyone to get the 'basic' set @ 208. Just remove expertise entirely, and since you're not kneeling at the altar of raiders any longer, just have the upper tiers fo gear available either through PVE play or through PVP play and collection of tokens to tun in to purchase those pieces.

 

Then players only ever need a single set of gear for 'basic' play though they may collect multiple sets when they want to specialize, re-spec, etc.

 

DAoC did it best prior to ToA imo.

[Icestar]

Yes/No - simple question and answer really. I'm just curious if this is a reason why many folk here don't PvP or would like to try it but lack of gear worries them.

 

Yes!

 

I would appreciate PvP much more if they removed it.

[howieloader]

The best PvE gear should not be the best PvP gear and vice versa... Because someone has 1936 and someone else has 2018 is not a reason people lose in PvP...

[LordArtemis]

There should be NO PROGRESSION in PVP IMO, other than rank. PVP should have very small boosts that you earn with rank, and you lose with death. The vast majority of rewards should either be useful in the rest of the game or visual IMO.

 

That means, IMO, gear should make no difference. Everyone should have the same stats across the board.

 

The reward from PVP should be the destruction of your enemies.

[Djiini]

Based on this, I ignored your posts. You are the only person on my ignore list in forum.

 

I uh...

You sure about that?

[EnkiduNineEight]

There should be NO PROGRESSION in PVP IMO, other than rank. PVP should have very small boosts that you earn with rank, and you lose with death. The vast majority of rewards should either be useful in the rest of the game or visual IMO.

 

That means, IMO, gear should make no difference. Everyone should have the same stats across the board.

 

The reward from PVP should be the destruction of your enemies.

 

See them driven before you and hear the lamentations of their women?

[RagnarAugustus]

Yes/No - simple question and answer really. I'm just curious if this is a reason why many folk here don't PvP or would like to try it but lack of gear worries them.

 

Simple answer yes.

 

Complex answer: I would definitely be more open to it as new players wouldn't be at a severe disadvantage when they start. In fact I don't understand why there is any specialty gear at all for PVP. PVP warzone commendations should be used exclusively to buy new and cool mounts, armor, weapons etc from exclusive PVP vendors but not to purchase gear that provides an advantage in PVP - that should be a level playing field for all players and based solely on PVP skill not crutches in the from of PVP gear. The bolster would only equalize level (health, mastery, etc ike in the new level sync Operations) as there would be no differences in gear.

[Pscyon]

I uh...

You sure about that?

You're on my ignore list as well. I have no idea what you just wrote and I'm quoting you by use of magic.

Edited November 2, 2015 by Pscyon

[Jarvus]

I uh...

You sure about that?

 

You're a troll. There's a button for ViewThisPostAnyway which I availed myself of when I saw the frequency with which you were posting in a thread I was posting in.

 

You seem to want to wise crack a lot. But your humor is based in cruelty and is actually very annoying. Do you punctuate everything you say in real life with a smirk? When someone explains an issue in real life do you typically ignore their points, assume they're incompetent, and then tell them as much?

 

Bugger off. I'm not going to avail myself of ViewThisPostAnyway again.

[Djiini]

Bugger off. I'm not going to avail myself of ViewThisPostAnyway again.

 

Cool, then you definitely won't see what I'm writing here. If you think a troll is someone who disagrees with you, there's no helping you.

 

You're on my ignore list as well. I have no idea what you just wrote and I'm quoting you by use of magic.

 

Heheheh.

Edited November 2, 2015 by Djiini

[LordArtemis]

Well, I would say that the market demonstrates that a change should be in order with PVP. GSF got it partially right, the idea that you should have a completely different set of abilities.

 

I think it should be more like Battlefront. The better you do, the possibility you might unlock a god mode. Other than that and a few small boosts based on overall rank, I think the main reward should be your kill count.

 

I don't think gear should play any factor at all.

[AlienEyeTX]

The better you do, the possibility you might unlock a god mode.

 

But... people good enough to unlock something like this don't need it.

[ahduth]

Pretty sure the PvE crowd would scream if we started getting PvE tier gear as rewards for PvP.

[Atalantia]

I thought copying WoW and creating a PVP stat was foolish from the beginning. The rationale for it was weak. They didn't want PVP raiders to have access to the very best equipment/stats and thus alienate the PVP players by making them go PVE to PVP. It is very simple to provide stats on equipment of equivalent value by making them available in other manners such as PVP vendors and based on putting in an equivalent time/effort cost to achieve.

 

But then they worried raiders would be upset that their uber shiny gear wasn't exclusive to them and their style of play.

 

Which demonstrates a flaw in a gearflation game. Focusing on gear stats alone as a measurement of reward generally puts the game in a poor territory. SWTOR made it even worse because they decided incremental growth for each gear tier wasn't viable so the jumps they made were absolutely _crazy_ and this made gearflation even worse.

 

Considerign the tack they have taken recently with gear, its quite easy for anyone to get the 'basic' set @ 208. Just remove expertise entirely, and since you're not kneeling at the altar of raiders any longer, just have the upper tiers fo gear available either through PVE play or through PVP play and collection of tokens to tun in to purchase those pieces.

 

Then players only ever need a single set of gear for 'basic' play though they may collect multiple sets when they want to specialize, re-spec, etc.

 

DAoC did it best prior to ToA imo.

 

I always thought Vanilla WoW had the best approach to pvp gear items and the ranking system, now this was before they ruined the game with Burning Crusades and the PvP Stat.

 

If you didn't play pvp that week your rank went down. They gear had its stats distributed slightly different from equivalent raiding gear, IIRC the damage stat or healing stat was higher on the pvp gear and the HP stat was a bit less don't really remember.

 

And it looked better than raid gear

[UglyStik]

I don't think gear should play any factor at all.

 

This is the only other way they could do PVP, because if I had to PVE to get the best gear I wouldn't play the game after I finish the storys.. :lol:

[Velgar]

Nope, not a chance. Boring pointless exercise with too many loudmouthed toxic people, not all of them but enough to make it an unpleasant and not fun exercise. Done enough across multiple mmos, and it is pretty much the same in every single one.

[LordArtemis]

I always thought Vanilla WoW had the best approach to pvp gear items and the ranking system, now this was before they ruined the game with Burning Crusades and the PvP Stat.

 

If you didn't play pvp that week your rank went down. They gear had its stats distributed slightly different from equivalent raiding gear, IIRC the damage stat or healing stat was higher on the pvp gear and the HP stat was a bit less don't really remember.

 

And it looked better than raid gear

 

I wouldn't mind gear that was health heavy, as that would boost survival time, improving the PVP experience IMO. But again, one of the main detriments to the system is that folks have no real entry point....without a separate rule set an a level playing field, like in other FPS games on the market, the feature does not and will not have wide appeal IMO.

Edited November 2, 2015 by LordArtemis

[Master-Nala]

Pretty sure the PvE crowd would scream if we started getting PvE tier gear as rewards for PvP.

 

I would have agreed before 4.0, but they basically throw gear at you now in PvE or PvP. It would be better to let Bolster equalize all players stats in PvP and leave gearing to PvE.

[Maraxuss]

No...because I want something to work for in PvP, and gear is one of those things.

 

but suppose that I said Yes.

 

I would also like to be able to do raids with a pug in lfg, without watching hours of you tube videos on how to defeat a boss, what needs to be done during a boss encounter etc. and also have a reasonable chance of not dying when not knowing said encounter, regardless of role tank, dps, or healer.

 

There has to be a carrot on a stick or no one will do it. and for pvp it is gear, just like raiding. If someone just wanted to see the story they would do it once and be over with it, but its week after week after week to get the gear you want. It'd already bad enough that the cost of pvp gear is so ridiculously low right now its almost unbelievable.

[Nottie]

No, I don't care for the Raider/PVP'er mentality. "You suck" "You people should f****** die" "f******* baddies" "Go kill yourselves" You see it in nearly every match. I'm "forced" to do a little for M1-4X and I've seen those and others in chat.

[LordArtemis]

Ok, the best PVP system, in my biased and unqualified opinion would be set up as follows....think Battlefront.

 

You have a toon that is separate from your current toon. It is a generic soldier. You also have a temporary ability bar and you are stripped of ALL of your gear and bonuses.

 

You play, you kill, you gain in rank. Every death costs you a portion of rank, every kill increases your rank more substantially than losses.

 

At some point you do so well you gain the ability to actually unlock your toon as a "god mode", with all the abilities present....no gear boosts mind you, just the abilities. Think the "jedi mode" in Battlefront.

 

This would make playing with your characters special because they would be treated as the "gods" on the battlefield. Once your character dies, you go back to the generic toon and have to build up your victories again to unlock it once more.

 

The rewards are overall rank, naturally...which changes based on individual kills and deaths, along with victories overall, and that rank sets you closer to the character unlock. The top ten players would always start with their characters on the field.

 

The rewards would be special cosmetic gear that would NEVER be available to other players, and other sets of cosmetics (including gear) that would be locked out from PVE player use for a set period of time.

 

Also, the top ten players on each server would gain a special rank and icon displayed for all in the game to see. Something like "GENERAL so and so" or "JEDI MASTER so and so" and a champion portrait and icon.

 

The SPECIAL reward that would actually boost participation IMO would be to provide Cartel Coins as rewards.

Edited November 2, 2015 by LordArtemis

[KalebGrayson]

Thing is though, would you feel the same if EA made it so that anyone who wanted to do a group flashpoint or operation was equally capable of doing so regardless of gear? Or would you feel that was unfair to you because the very reason you do PVE instances is to farm gear to be better at those PVE instances?

 

Would your logic work in reverse regarding participation in PVE regardless of gear, which basically means making the rewards of PVEing not 216 and 220 rated gear, which can only be got from operations and the like.

 

There really are two sets of people, PVE and PVP and each of them would like to participate in the other activity at least a little, at least theoretically, but neither of them seems to want to have the rewards given to them for their preferred activity nerfed in order to do it.

 

You make a good point Jarvus. I know I am in the minority in my opinion with regards to PVE gear. I am the first to tell the loot master to pass the gear to someone else if the upgrade is better for them. Most folks get really, really serious about gear and who gets it in PVE content. I'm just not sure that PVP players play for gear...not sure if I am making my point or not...PVP players, in my experience, play to beat other players.

[Shipwright]

Yes/No - simple question and answer really. I'm just curious if this is a reason why many folk here don't PvP or would like to try it but lack of gear worries them.

 

No.

 

Interesting question though; I know a few people who dislike the expertise stat and would probably do pvp here without it.

[Eleonora]

Yes I probably would.

[TUXs]

Yes/No - simple question and answer really. I'm just curious if this is a reason why many folk here don't PvP or would like to try it but lack of gear worries them.

Yes.

 

I PvP because I like PvP...the stupid gear thing was Bioware's idea. I want PvP to be rewarding too, but it should be gear that is on par with PvE gear.

 

Remove Expertise and the world is a better place.