Overpowered companions 4.0

[Nihilkult]

You actually get a point there , I didn't think about that legacy thing. Didn't realize I already gathered that much presence hehe.

[sentientomega]

And I like having companions that in heal mode are as effective as running with my friend who plays a healer. healer companions are now actually as effective as running with a player healer.

 

They're actually better than PUG healers, who will oftentimes happily let us get defeated.

[TaeKwanLeap]

The is a lot of hyperbole flying about over the companions but nobody who is screaming about them being OP is mentioning what presence bonus they hove on these low level toons, or what their influence level is at. A brand new player on a new account with no legacy bonuses, no account wide datacrons, low influence and low presence is going to have an entirely different experience than the old hands who are in here screaming that their 30th alt is wiping the floor in low level content, neglecting to mention that it is due to all their accumulated bonuses from legacy etc..

 

That would be me... even though I have beta tested and played since the beginning, my highest influence is "10" on the character I put more time into. I don't have all purple gear, with tons of legacy bonus perks and are a casual player.

 

This change is perfect for my style of MMO game play because it means I won't be frustrated trying to get a quest line done without asking for help from people I play with to "take down this hard boss at the end."

 

I know there probably is a good 60% or so of the servers that are "not" me and have maxed out characters with tons of presence and legacy perks that make one uber, but for some of us that just play to have fun and enjoy the story lines play out, this was a good patch. Please don't pull out the nerf hammer!!!

[maidelken]

But they don't.

 

Black Hole Daily, Kovic fight, using StarParse:

Mine:

Concentrated Slice: 7230 biggest hit, 10765 total damage

Focused Burst: 5092 biggest hit, 10027 total damage

Dispatch: 5246, single use

Zealous Leap: 4027, single use

Force Exhaustion: 3593 total damage, 2 uses

Sunder Strike: 2380. single use

Force Leap: 2168, single use

Blade Storm: 2041, single use

Saber Throw: 1663, single use

 

Kira:

Finishing Strike: 4888 single use

Pummel: 4038, 3677, 2354

Whirlwind Strike: 1037, 1001

Melee Attack: 811 biggest, 11 hits between 530-490 averaging about 515-520.

Force Crush: 678x3, 431x7

 

Base attack did 800 damage for a biggest hit, you're doing something wrong if they are out-dpsing you.

 

PS. My commando finished the same fight with Yuun and got higher DPS, 2100 versus 1700 I did on my guardian. Yuun's damage was similar to Kira's, in fact only a few points difference between any particular type of ability. But I still did almost 47k off the boss's hp, Yuun did less than half that.

 

This is from another thread. It only happens while levelling, I assume you are at or near level cap

 

That dps companion attack some are crying about has a fairly long CD and, in that time, a halfway decent player can rip out that much damage eight or ten times over. If you can't, you truly suck or are playing with one foot while blindfolded or something.

 

You can't just look at the damage number and ignore everything else when assessing these things.

 

In the time it takes my BH's Mako to use her one attack that deals 10-12k, have it come off CD and be up again, my BH can do WAY more damage.

 

And sometimes, with just two abilities; tracer missile followed by heat seeker. So sad is not one. I have to then wait a whole ten seconds or o before I can sometimes do 20-22k with that one-two punch, but in the meantime, I console myself with frequent 13k rail shot crits and blaster lolspam these deals 8-10k over its

That dps companion attack some are crying about has a fairly long CD and, in that time, a halfway decent player can rip out that much damage eight or ten times over. If you can't, you truly suck or are playing with one foot while blindfolded or something.

 

You can't just look at the damage number and ignore everything else when assessing these things.

 

In the time it takes my BH's Mako to use her one attack that deals 10-12k, have it come off CD and be up again, my BH can do WAY more damage.

 

And sometimes, with just two abilities; tracer missile followed by heat seeker. So sad is not one. I have to then wait a whole ten seconds or o before I can sometimes do 20-22k with that one-two punch, but in the meantime, I console myself with frequent 13k rail shot crits and blaster lolspam these deals 8-10k over its channel.

 

If I'm feeling saucy, crushing out 8-9k rocket punch crits on anything that gets too close is tasty, and AoE?

 

Poor Mako has her one shooty cone attack... Also with a decently long CD.

 

I can drop Death from Above and while that's on CD, flame my enemies and then spam them with quick and dirty blaster AoE that has no CD at all.

 

But yeah, you keep crying about how dps companions have one attack that has a bigger damage number than any of yours. Totally ignore the cool down; I mean, this is a threat to your e-peen here, we can't let little things like math and facts or reason get in the way of anything so CLEARLY IMPORTANT.

 

The thing is the cool down in that attack really isn't relavent at all.

 

I'm in game now so some specific detailed examples.

 

Elara Dorne at influence level 14 on my lvl 42 trooper

 

Health - 20717, mine 11846

 

Standard attack - 612-685, mine 361-433

 

Blast attack with 6 sec cool down - 1637-1749

Dead eye shot with19 sec cool down - 3054-3262

 

My cool down attacks are all 14 seconds so no exact comparison, but my damages are:

High impact bolt - 848-942

Fire pulse - 718-765

Shock strike - 817-869 (+168-220)

 

 

No, those abilities aren't excessive at all!

 

If I switch her to heal mode then she keeps her basic attack (which if you notice is about 100 less damage than my long cool down attacks) and gains the following heals:

 

Koto scan - 7 sec cool down for 2357 (25% of my health)

Koto drip - 11 sec cool down for 887 ever second for 9 seconds (8% of my health every second)

Progressive - no cool down for 2801 over 3 seconds

 

 

It can't just be me who sees how ridiculous that is. I'm not yelling nerf, just give me some semblance of balance please.

 

The thing is the cool down in that attack really isn't relavent at all.

 

I'm in game now so some specific detailed examples.

 

Elara Dorne at influence level 14 on my lvl 42 trooper

 

Health - 20717, mine 11846

 

Standard attack - 612-685, mine 361-433

 

Blast attack with 6 sec cool down - 1637-1749

Dead eye shot with19 sec cool down - 3054-3262

 

My cool down attacks are all 14 seconds so no exact comparison, but my damages are:

High impact bolt - 848-942

Fire pulse - 718-765

Shock strike - 817-869 (+168-220)

 

 

No, those abilities aren't excessive at all!

 

If I switch her to heal mode then she keeps her basic attack (which if you notice is about 100 less damage than my long cool down attacks) and gains the following heals:

 

Koto scan - 7 sec cool down for 2357 (25% of my health)

Koto drip - 11 sec cool down for 887 ever second for 9 seconds (8% of my health every second)

Progressive - no cool down for 2801 over 3 seconds

 

 

It can't just be me who sees how ridiculous that is. I'm not yelling nerf, just give me some semblance of balance please.

[ReverendAnderson]

The is a lot of hyperbole flying about over the companions but nobody who is screaming about them being OP is mentioning what presence bonus they hove on these low level toons, or what their influence level is at. A brand new player on a new account with no legacy bonuses, no account wide datacrons, low influence and low presence is going to have an entirely different experience than the old hands who are in here screaming that their 30th alt is wiping the floor in low level content, neglecting to mention that it is due to all their accumulated bonuses from legacy etc.

 

It seems nobody bothered to read the detailed explanation of how companions work now and how having all those bonuses built up is going to power up the companions for low level alts etc. It was all there if you bothered to read it and take the time to understand the implications. They even talked about how companions of low level alts before 4.0 were hilariously overpowered due to all the bonuses. That did not change significantly because new players without all those bonuses would get slaughtered.

 

They also said the companions of low level characters with a legacy Presence bonus should no longer be hilariously over powered. I started a new Knight on Harbinger, where I had no legacy at all, and played through Tython. T7 arrives with double my health and damage, and significantly higher stats that I have. My Presence score was something like 34, and T7 gave me +50 from the get go. I let him solo both Bengal Moore and the Forge Guardian fights and he had no trouble with either.

 

My current character, on Ebon Hawk where I do have a legacy, starts with a 187 bonus to Presence, but by the end of Coruscant, T7 has rank 9 Influence and was providing +450 Presence, making him very OP whether my character go his legacy bonus or not.

[Kane_Ren]

Ok, here is my experience. I have a full legacy 50 on harbinger with max presence and all datacrons. I have a legacy on red eclipse with a few datacrons and not bothered with comp affection at all. There is a definite difference between the 2. The lightning sorc I used monsters through single player content on harb legacy and my other inq feels noticeably inferior.

OP? not really. Way more fun to continue with my better companions. People have to have something to complain about I suppose. There are solutions already ingame to increase the challenge without spoiling it for others

 

Reminds me a lot about the early slicing nerf after release. Was a great way to make creds until a few complained (probably because they didn't take it as a skill) and BW acted on it immediately.

[Juromaro]

Ok, here is my experience. I have a full legacy 50 on harbinger with max presence and all datacrons. I have a legacy on red eclipse with a few datacrons and not bothered with comp affection at all. There is a definite difference between the 2. The lightning sorc I used monsters through single player content on harb legacy and my other inq feels noticeably inferior.

OP? not really. Way more fun to continue with my better companions. People have to have something to complain about I suppose. There are solutions already ingame to increase the challenge without spoiling it for others

 

Reminds me a lot about the early slicing nerf after release. Was a great way to make creds until a few complained (probably because they didn't take it as a skill) and BW acted on it immediately.

 

 

God I hated the slicing nerf, jacked up quest mission boxes with it. A box on hutta used to give 1000 credits for a class quest till that nerf then it gave 43 credits, now it gives something like 200-300.

 

 

Companions are fine as is. Seriously before 4.0 people complained that taking their gear away was nerfing them, now those same people complain they are too strong.

[Max_Killjoy]

so the same ppl whining about lvl sync reduce the players lvl on mid/low lvl planets are now moaning because Companions give them back their pre 4.0 godmode?....

 

are u guys actually doing the new alliance stuff? w/o powerfull comps its an endless grind.

 

at least u could ask for adjustment instead of an nerf. and we all know how hard the Dev`s nerf hammer will hit if once wielded.

 

Which same people are those?

 

Other than that, yes, you're right -- there needs to be an adjustment and re-examination, not a matter of carpet-bombing companions with an overall nerf.

[RogerApple]

Can some of you please stop complaining. We tried it the other way for 3 years. It's seen a massive drop in subs under a million. People laid off etc. If they want to go back to the failed experiment they should listen to people who are complaining. Actually in game me and several others are having fun and we think companions is an improvement. If you think its a problem. Fight without your companion. Don't ruin it for the rest of us.

[Draqsko]

*snip*

 

Those long cooldown attacks that Unare was talking about are finishing moves. Those hard hitting attacks can only be executed just like Dispatch for Knights, when the target is below 30% hp. So not only does it have a long cooldown, they can really only use it once per fight except against flashpoint bosses, everything else is dead.

 

Now about your base attack versus Elara's....

 

Mine base attack at level 42 is 664-862, Elara's is 579 - 619. My HP is 13525 and Hers is 20748. Naturally everything else is scaled in relation to that as well.

 

So the issue is you, somehow you are undergeared... or more likely you ignored the datacrons of which I have every one except Rishi. I noticed on low level planets my character's hp is double everyone else's because of the datacrons I gotten earlier in my adventuring days. Those crons matter now because otherwise you'd be capped lower in stats without them.

 

On Tython my main has 3300 hp, most people there have 1700. On Coruscant I have 4400 hp, most people have 2300. I haven't even guess what the mastery difference is but it's probably substantial too.

 

So there's the problem, your characters are too weak, not companions are too strong. Get the datacrons, problem solved.

[Sedgecammel]

Speaking as someone who loves this game,and good MMO's in genral,I really do think they need to tone the companions down.

I have always been,at best,an average player,but now I feel like the best and not in a good way. With my companion set to healer there is zero chalenge in any fight. If I choose a different role for them it gets slightly better,but only slightly. I've gone from making sure I had plenty of meds before venturing out, to never needing them and almost never having to heal after a fight. On my BH,for example,the only time I use my heal between fights is to vent heat.

 

I have always wished I was better at surviving,but making me an unstoppable killing machine is going to far....I never thought I would say this,but please make the game harder again. A lot of the changes I love,but not this one.

[maidelken]

Those long cooldown attacks that Unare was talking about are finishing moves. Those hard hitting attacks can only be executed just like Dispatch for Knights, when the target is below 30% hp. So not only does it have a long cooldown, they can really only use it once per fight except against flashpoint bosses, everything else is dead.

 

Now about your base attack versus Elara's....

 

Mine base attack at level 42 is 664-862, Elara's is 579 - 619. My HP is 13525 and Hers is 20748. Naturally everything else is scaled in relation to that as well.

 

So the issue is you, somehow you are undergeared... or more likely you ignored the datacrons of which I have every one except Rishi. I noticed on low level planets my character's hp is double everyone else's because of the datacrons I gotten earlier in my adventuring days. Those crons matter now because otherwise you'd be capped lower in stats without them.

 

On Tython my main has 3300 hp, most people there have 1700. On Coruscant I have 4400 hp, most people have 2300. I haven't even guess what the mastery difference is but it's probably substantial too.

 

So there's the problem, your characters are too weak, not companions are too strong. Get the datacrons, problem solved.

 

They are not finishing moves, Elara starts with one, then volley fires and hits the rest as they come off cool down.

 

And yes, I have absolutely no datacrons (however the rest of my fear is oranges filled with blue mods at my level with purple implants and relics) I am geared as well as I can be for my level without forking out 500k in purple mods for a few levels.

 

Why on earth should companions scale with datacrons? Surely they should scale as if I don't have any?

[TheSeer]

Ok, here is my experience. I have a full legacy 50 on harbinger with max presence and all datacrons. I have a legacy on red eclipse with a few datacrons and not bothered with comp affection at all. There is a definite difference between the 2. The lightning sorc I used monsters through single player content on harb legacy and my other inq feels noticeably inferior.

OP? not really. Way more fun to continue with my better companions. People have to have something to complain about I suppose. There are solutions already ingame to increase the challenge without spoiling it for others

 

Reminds me a lot about the early slicing nerf after release. Was a great way to make creds until a few complained (probably because they didn't take it as a skill) and BW acted on it immediately.

 

I think you make a great point, I think vet forgot how many buffs they are getting. That not counting the fact they are wearing top gear most of the time and many known how to play there class for max damage. For complete new or young players this game isn't nearly as easy.

 

When I hear someone screaming nerf yourself. As I said my sister does this by never agument her gear and wearing thing that are five level back. For me I wanted a challenge for a new character, I wore only an empty orange sell and got all the way to the end boss in my class story on the capital world. Man that was a hard fight but I don't think other want that challenge, even I sometime just want thing to be easy. So please stop calling for a nerf.

 

PS I would support a debuff like the white token for 12xp, we could call it the hardship buff or the nerf buff

[Draqsko]

They are not finishing moves, Elara starts with one, then volley fires and hits the rest as they come off cool down.

 

And yes, I have absolutely no datacrons (however the rest of my fear is oranges filled with blue mods at my level with purple implants and relics) I am geared as well as I can be for my level without forking out 500k in purple mods for a few levels.

 

Why on earth should companions scale with datacrons? Surely they should scale as if I don't have any?

 

Dead eye shot is a finishing move, look at the description. It's also the single biggest hitter in their skill set.

 

Companion tertiary stats are being scaled by level, but player stats are not. I have 32% crit, 77% surge on Tython, any of my companions have 20% crit, 50% surge. On Coruscant, they have 40 power and 40 crit rating, if you can't outgear that I don't know what to say.

 

Datacron buffs to the players stats are also not being scaled by level sync, you are nerfing yourself by not getting them. Again, this is a player issue, not companions.

 

I just showed you the data from my parse in Black Hole, again on Coruscant and Tython my companion did not out damage me at all.

Edited October 25, 2015 by Draqsko

[LordArtemis]

Look...It is a fair complaint to point out that dismissed companions keep returning over and over again. If a player does not want to play in "god mode", if there truly is such a thing, they should be able to dismiss their companion and it should STAY GONE until it is resummoned.

 

THAT CHANGE, IMO, has to happen. Frankly it should have been fixed ages ago....they had some kind of a problem with companions not showing up for cutscenes to get credit for choices, so they set it up so your companion would spawn with EVERY cutscene...and consequentially every zone as well.

 

This was a LONG time ago, this has been a persistent bug and NOW it really needs to be fixed. It is not fair to those players that wish to have a challenge when they play to be forced to constantly dismiss their companions over and over again.

 

No adjustments should be made to the current companion system IMO. It is just fine as it is...in fact, all of the unique traits that old companions have should be returned, especially in the case of HK and Treek.

 

But when you dismiss a companion it should stay gone.

[sentientomega]

There is another solution that would negate companion involvement, put them in PASSIVE stance; they may get attacked initially, but that won't last once your chars start cranking out their dps/heals/threat, it'll be as if you were the only one there.

 

See there's one thing I've noticed, if you have your comp attack first, all the threat goes to them, and even if you're a tank, you get generally ignored; and if you go and aggro more mobs, there's a high chance that said mobs will ignore you and run to fight your companion, it doesn't always work this way, but for me it has done, most of the time.

 

My suggestion would negate companion involvement, because companions are not going to attack, or do anything else except follow the player, and thus raise barely the minimum level of threat. Especially, this applies if we attack first, as it's the puller who gets most of the initial threat, which our chars wouldn't lose if we pressed home the attack.

Edited October 26, 2015 by sentientomega

[LordArtemis]

There is another solution that would negate companion involvement, put them in PASSIVE stance; they may get attacked initially, but that won't last once your chars start cranking out their dps/heals/threat, it'll be as if you were the only one there.

 

See there's one thing I've noticed, if you have your comp attack first, all the threat goes to them, and even if you're a tank, you get generally ignored; and if you go and aggro more mobs, there's a high chance that said mobs will ignore you and run to fight your companion, it doesn't always work this way, but for me it has done, most of the time.

 

My suggestion would negate companion involvement, because companions are not going to attack, or do anything else except follow the player, and thus raise barely the minimum level of threat. Especially, this applies if we attack first, as it's the puller who gets most of the initial threat, which our chars wouldn't lose if we pressed home the attack.

 

That's a fair point that I am embarrassed to admit completely slipped my mind...passive. That could be at least a temporary and effective solution until the bug is fixed.

[kasanth]

You know what companions use to remind me of?

You ever play The Last of Us? Companions always reminded me of anyone who is suppose to

be helping you fight and kill in The Last of Us.

They had unlimited ammo. When you first meet them, they can fight off a group of infected alone

to save you. But when they are teamed up with you, they cant handle one by themselves without

having to call for you to help them.

 

Im glad companions are a little over powered. Some are suppose to be great. But up untill

now, they sucked and were not the great warriors they were suppose to be. They should

be able to handle themselves alot better then they did in the past.

[Bomyne]

Please leave companions alone... I am begging you.

 

If you don't like your companion, put it on passive and use it simply to collect resources on the map. That'll give you the same experience as pre-4.0.

[Halinalle]

One of things many are ignoring is our player characters.

 

I accidentally attacked a group in heroic are on Hoth after I had send my companion to sell stuff. It was 3 strongs and 1 elite. They were level 39. I didn't have problems soloing them as level 65 Plasmatech.

 

Yes, at level 42 I would not have things like Plasmatize, Plasma Barrage, Plasmatic Assault, Hazardous Heat or even level 44 passive Rain of Fire, dot spread. Don't even get me started on those three utility points.

 

What exactly is my point? Simple, faster we kill enemies less healing we need.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Halinalle

[WorldSmasher]

Yeah... I want my Companions to be strong! I like that they can fight like me! Now I can bravely go into dangerous areas at my level with a reduced fear of getting creamed by the elite mobs because my companion couldn't hold his/her own weight.

 

Now I don't always have to group up with another player, whom I don't know will make it fun or a chore, when I do Heroics.

 

Bioware, companions are fine as they are!

 

Now... I wouldn't mind if you made the non-heroic mobs a tiny little bit stronger..., but only a little bit. You hear BW? Don't go all slot machine nerfing crazy on us and make the non-heroic mobs into unbeatable bosses...

[shdwfx]

Yeah, leave the companions alone please, I didn't do all that work to have them nerfed into the ground. You may not like the comp playstyle as it is, but I do.

[maidelken]

Dead eye shot is a finishing move, look at the description. It's also the single biggest hitter in their skill set.

 

Companion tertiary stats are being scaled by level, but player stats are not. I have 32% crit, 77% surge on Tython, any of my companions have 20% crit, 50% surge. On Coruscant, they have 40 power and 40 crit rating, if you can't outgear that I don't know what to say.

 

Datacron buffs to the players stats are also not being scaled by level sync, you are nerfing yourself by not getting them. Again, this is a player issue, not companions.

 

I just showed you the data from my parse in Black Hole, again on Coruscant and Tython my companion did not out damage me at all.

 

Fair enough one of them is a finishing move - the other attacks arent.

 

And as for not getting the datacrons being my fault - no that completely misses the problem entirely.

 

Say I did spend HOURS getting all the damn things, I hate jumping around so there isnt much chance I will, what would it change?

 

My character would be a bit more powerful.

 

Great - how does that affect the fact that my companions can solo Golds and champions on their own, kill chapter bosses without my imput? Just because I made my own character a bit more powerful would not in anyway change that fact and thats the problem - my healer companion should not be able to tank and heal 30 agroed npcs, or the final boss of a storyline until she ground him down with basic attacks.

 

I accidentally got into some PVP on Tatooine (my bad, I just clicked on a red character, turns out it was another player, but never mind.) after a few minutes we both got bored and walked off - why? because both of us had a healing companion with us and we simply could not do enough damage to overcome the uber healing abilities of the other persons companion.

[CarpeSangrea]

I accidentally got into some PVP on Tatooine (my bad, I just clicked on a red character, turns out it was another player, but never mind.) after a few minutes we both got bored and walked off - why? because both of us had a healing companion with us and we simply could not do enough damage to overcome the uber healing abilities of the other persons companion.

 

I hadn't even considered that. Imagine how ridiculous it would be for people on actual pvp servers.

[zhandao]

Fair enough one of them is a finishing move - the other attacks arent.

On the note of skills: They are affected by the weapon damage stat on the weapon your Companion is equipped with. Basic attacks are not affected by weapon damage. However abilities such as "Dead-eye Shot" are affected by weapon damage. You can check by switching weapons and looking at the hover-over tool-tip.

 

Every single stat besides weapon damage has no effect on anything as should be the case.

 

So I'm curious if giving your Companion a level 1 white blaster pistol will make them do less damage