Attention all players and Devs - 4.0 most complained about new feature. LEVEL SYNC

[MooseMcKenna]

I like seeing the idea of optional. I also want to be able to actually gear up my companions again.

 

I don't like the force on me level sync at all. Try getting a group together on Jung Ma where lots of players left for more populated servers. I leveled up for a reason so I can beat those lower level stuff easier and faster.

 

I could care less about experience points gained doing low level heroics. And once those that like the experience points gsined from them hit lvl65 they too would start to become annoyed with lvl sync.

[xlDaemonlx]

Yes making it optional allows for players to play with lower level friends, level and gain experience for lower level content, but for people who need to complete tasks, or want to help their friends get to their level quickly, and thats just to name a few. I hope more people understand that this does not have to be mandatory for everyone to be happy.

 

Those who argue that it makes World PVP and avoiding griefers much easier has not seen those griefers just getting in big groups to do the same, so that issue will continue to exist. If getting ganked and killed during questing is a problem in the first place, why play PVP server if your complaining about getting killed, and if your complaining about a fair fight, again they will still run in groups. Also the opposite is true, now a high level player now needs to worry about EVERYONE leveled to the planet they are on, so now A Dark Council member can get slaughtered by a small group apprentices, which honestly kinda destroys the story, lore and immersion into the universe and character. As for other griefers, they will always exist like trolls will always exist. So either way level sync or not that wont help that problem.

 

Those who argue that they enjoy the new feature because of them being able to play lower level content and reap the rewards, or they enjoy the challenge can still use this if they just make it optional. So that way those who want to use it can, and everyone who doesnt want or doesnt need to use it they can deselect the option. Everyone wins.

 

If there are any other solid reasons to why this should stay I would love to hear them, especially the ones that require this to not be optional at all.

 

Thank you.

[Nika_Alexandrov]

I for one would like level sync to be an optional thing. What happens if one is doing the Shroud of Ruin quests or the DreadSeed ones and their levels are underpowered because of a system that forces it on it's players? That's not a good business model to force a product on someone it makes people want to unsubscribe because there's less choice.

 

For those who think it's a good idea what happens if you want to be alone and quest by yourself or want to do quick runs in order to get high level quests completed? The same is true for flash points? What if you don't have a problem killing everything while the other person just loots and don't fancy the idea of having to go through fighting harder for something?

 

Personally I myself if I wanted to do the low level heroics on a sixty am just trying to speed through it. I don't want to have to worry whether Quinn or another healer companion is doing his or her darn job properly while getting stunned by npcs who should just be dead quickly.

Edited October 22, 2015 by Nika_Alexandrov

[JulesKor]

I also hate the levelling sync feature mainly for the reasons as stated by many posters - I am largely a solo player and loved the fact I could go back to earlier planets and complete heroics and legacy achievements without having to wait hours or days to find a group to help. 12x XP was a prime example of many people being focussed on power levelling through class missions that all other content was ignored.

I spent the better half of last month just grinding my way through as many achievements as I could. Soloing many low level HM Fps to get these achievements was a grind - let's face it, doing 25 HM FPs to get a single achievement is one heck of a grind, but I was progressing and that was fun for me.

Last night I spent over an hour waiting for a HM FP to pop - "The False Emperor" - there we were, two lvl 65s and two lvl 60s, and it was, to say the least, difficult. I felt the 1.5 years I spent levelling toons, immersing myself in the story, etc was simply wasted overnight because suddenly I'm so squishy again. Having to go through that for another 24 times to get the achievement? No, thank you.

I would love to see this level sync as a selectable option, too. If PvP is your thing, why not make it so you're automatically level synced as soon as you're flagged for PvP? That way you're happy you're not being one-shotted and PvE players are happy because they feel like the powerful master they've worked so hard to be

[Nika_Alexandrov]

My point exactly it should've an optional choice; but instead it was forced much the same way NCSOFT killed off City Of Heroes. The fans loved the game but the people removed from it sitting in their towers decided against it, that sort of bad business outlook causes trouble later on down the road maybe not right away but eventually there will be some other patch or issue and others will feel the same exact way and leave.

 

I am on Taris on a level 60 and am trying to do the Shroud quests now there's a boss that shows up who is level 60. What happens now that I am forcibly made as squishy as a level 38 or what not? I can't ask another level 60 to help they'd have the same exact issue. Where does that leave a person? Likely it will make him or her not want to do the quest or even stay with the game if a choice is going to be removed. That is my point here and all those who claim it's for the best well what happens when it's their turn?

Edited October 22, 2015 by Nika_Alexandrov

[TangledDruid]

Yes making it optional allows for players to play with lower level friends, level and gain experience for lower level content

So does not making it optional, I find this argument invalid, as it can be applied to both sides equally.

 

for people who need to complete tasks, or want to help their friends get to their level quickly

This is the only argument I have seen. Frankly having spent all my play time last night doing older content, this just doesn't wash. We are *faster* now, more powerful, *and* the loot is better.

 

Please give us one concrete, "I went here and couldn't do this" example, so we can have an actual discussion.

 

Seriously, check the other threads, login and try to do something quickly. Its a face roll. I did the whole Ilum string in about 30 minutes, didn't get knocked off once. I had zero trouble driving around mobs I did not want to kill.

 

However, I realize that is my personal impression, and not very helpful to this argument. So, here is my concrete example to argue against, even using your vague and hazy example.

 

Level Sync on: Person you help gets 125,000 XP

Level Sync off: Person you help gets 2000 XP

 

... and thats just to name a few. I hope more people understand that this does not have to be mandatory for everyone to be happy.

You named one, and it was more of a generalization than an argument. I saw no examples of content you have trouble with now, issues with gathering nodes, just a general "its not as good" statement.

 

You say you want a an open and mature discussion, so please, elucidate your concern. My personal experience with lower content is that it is even easier than it was before, so your assertion baffles me.

 

Post 65 the content is on the existing planets.

 

For expansion in the future they can design more instances, planets, new areas, and the backstory for them.

Or

Change them game world so they can tell stories in the existing universe

 

Level Sync effectively allows encounters to be designed without having to spend all that production time and money. They now have a giant area in which to tell stories and publish new chapters with out worrying if the new area will be barren in 4 months when the next bit comes out.

 

Look at the history:

 

Makeb

CZ-198

Oricon

 

Lots of effort went into these places for them to be a ghost town.

 

The game is about the STORY

 

1 - Level sync turns the whole game into a medium to tell star wars stories

2 - Level sync turns turns operations and flash points into something that can scale, which means less work for new ones, now hopefully they won't have to "redo" them every time there is a level cap increase.

 

PVP

 

...snip... for brevity

 

PVP arguments either way are irrelevant, I agree. Neither side will make a good point here.

 

Those who argue that they enjoy the new feature because of them being able to play lower level content and reap the rewards, or they enjoy the challenge can still use this if they just make it optional. So that way those who want to use it can, and everyone who doesnt want or doesnt need to use it they can deselect the option. Everyone wins.

 

If there are any other solid reasons to why this should stay I would love to hear them, especially the ones that require this to not be optional at all.

 

Thank you.

 

There is no challenge. I skipped mobs just as effectively on Makeb, Ilum, Oricon, and Alderaan as I did pre sync.

Clearing an area is easier.

 

Please tell me what would change if it was switched off. This is a straw man argument I cannot have a response to, as having it on does not make things any more difficult. Please, show me or tell me where you are having difficulty. I can't find anywhere.

 

The main point is this is a major change that is going to allow more story content to get added. I would hate to see it get screwed up trying to implement some sort of toggle.

 

It isn't something they did to gimp you; this is made obvious by the fact that everything is still face rolled.

 

It a MAJOR game change; there are lots of facets other than the number above your head changing.

 

Where to put them, how to determine difficulty of encounters.

 

So to summarize that into a reason against a toggle:

 

Right now, every battle has a baseline. Every player will be within X power, X health, X accuracy etc. As a result, every battle can be incorporated as a STORY element. Anywhere.

 

As you level , you gain Passive and active abilities ; these never go away, you will always be able to face roll when you are synced.

 

To enable a toggle, now each encounter has to be set to a certain power level. so WHERE the encounter is, is level dependent. Now there is a lot of game world that is unusable. Which is where we were last week.

 

So, in a nutshell, the best reason to not have level sync toggle is:

 

We will get more story. More Content. and previous content will no longer be taken away from us.

The trade off is ... well, nothing, it is easier to float through older content than before.

 

Its a mechanism, not a punishment. The number beside your portrait literally means nothing as far as fighting mobs. (Until you are talking about higher levels, as you do not sync UP)

 

At this point I would summarize my argument as "Level Sync is working, allows more content to be published"

 

So what reason would make the additional work of re coding encounters to be single level again would be worth losing Tython / Belsavis / Hoth / Korriban / Hutta as place we can go back to for fresh story?

 

To clarify, by re-coding encounters, I mean the additional work that is making sure the high level mobs dont agro under level players, adding terrain features so low levels don't wander in, setting up another loot table for each new bit of story, etc)

 

I am trying to be ordered and polite, but I am getting tired writing

 

I will probably write a summary post later in this thread that will hopefully be more succinct and getting people to maybe reconsider sync toggling.

[TangledDruid]

My point exactly it should've an optional choice; but instead it was forced much the same way NCSOFT killed off City Of Heroes. The fans loved the game but the people removed from it sitting in their towers decided against it, that sort of bad business outlook causes trouble later on down the road maybe not right away but eventually there will be some other patch or issue and others will feel the same exact way and leave.

 

I am on Taris on a level 60 and am trying to do the Shroud quests now there's a boss that shows up who is level 60. What happens now that I am forcibly made as squishy as a level 38 or what not? I can't ask another level 60 to help they'd have the same exact issue. Where does that leave a person? Likely it will make him or her not want to do the quest or even stay with the game if a choice is going to be removed. That is my point here and all those who claim it's for the best well what happens when it's their turn?

 

That, my friend, sounds like a bug, and the VERY REASON they came up with level sync. This shouldn't happen anymore with new content published under the sync system.

[TangledDruid]

I also hate the levelling sync feature mainly for the reasons as stated by many posters - I am largely a solo player and loved the fact I could go back to earlier planets and complete heroics and legacy achievements without having to wait hours or days to find a group to help

 

 

This is baffling me SO hard.

You can.

You just can.

Its EASIER.

Please go try.

The number means nothing....

[Nika_Alexandrov]

You assume that it won't happen however you are not taking into account it seems the human error factor or the fact that code of any kind can be bugged. Just look at all the number of bugs that have arisen in previous patches and will likely appear now I mean why do another new patch right off the bat unless there already are bugs?

 

The saying it's a straw man and acting as if I am not trying and just complaining is a falsehood. I'm already going and doing heroics I would rather just breeze through without having to worry about getting killed or being stunned repeatedly because it was forced.

 

Show me where level sync is a good idea for the people who want to solo and don't want to have to worry about being stunned all the freaking time? I've given evidence (living evidence on my own end) and have been nothing but frustrated by this level sync idea it wastes my time because I frankly do not feel the need to group with others all the time. And just for quests I've already done that bore me only so I can pick up a few more datacrystals.

 

Tangled you can disagree with me and say that this is a good system. I've encountered differently on balmorra a planet I should be able to own and dominate to my heart's content yet now can't. The old system they had in place was fine for me personally, I didn't have to contemplate being grouped with complete morons who I would be tempted to shove against the nearest wall and then smack repeatedly upside the head with a baseball bat just to get that heroic done.

Edited October 22, 2015 by Nika_Alexandrov

[Kyzarn]

Having level-sync be mandatory sucks. It needs to be made optional or get rid of it.

[TheDT-Sniper]

Hello everyone! I've unsubbed from swtor because level sync and other changes... I really didn't want to but man it's just not fair to level and than to not be leveled... anyways bye bye. I'll check in on the patch notes now and again for a hopeful fix .

[Nika_Alexandrov]

Exactly it's mandatory, it's forcing a choice on those who do not want it the very definition of the word:

 

mandatory

(ˈmændətərɪ; -trɪ)

adj

1. (Law) having the nature or powers of a mandate

2. obligatory; compulsory

 

And because it's a choice forced onto people some (myself included) do not care for it. What if I want to go to dromund kaas and do the heroics for extra datacrystals to get gear for companions, or myself or for an alt? Where it would take say a few minutes for a level 60 it now takes longer, that's time taken away. Secondly as said repeatedly it's not something I wanted and as a customer the person giving money to the people who make the game who pays essentially for their paychecks, their servers and equipment is not my opinion a valuable one?

 

Sorry to see you go DT can understand why though.

Edited October 22, 2015 by Nika_Alexandrov

[Arix-Altair]

Canceled my sub too, level sync crap, making companions boring!! What the hell's the point of them now?! And taking away our commendation vendors and forcing crafting!! Screw you guys!

[Velarax]

PLEASE for the love of all that is fun and desired, make the LEVEL SYNC OPTIONAL!!!.. FF14 does it, why can't YOU?

[Everrgreen]

Yeah level sync; first thing I did was take a level 27 on a companion quest - a level 24 Corso quest - to Coruscant and got dropped to lvl 18. So how is that syncing to level? more like sinking the ship. I requested level sync to be optional before it released and it's worse than I imagined.

 

Also; big on my list of disappointment is that Corso can no longer wield Torchy, a big part of his character as he is the blaster geek. I also miss "let's have us some fun, Captain" every time I de-rez a vehicle. So how is Bioware big on "story" when they screw character elements like that? There's more to the character/story losses but 'nuf said for now. Maybe a different thread.

[Nika_Alexandrov]

Yeah and they did that with Andronikos removed his second blaster pistol which was a stupid move I thought. I mean he's an outlaw, a gunslinger yet his second weapon is removed while Vette's isn't? *Shakes head* How does that make sense?

 

The problem is the devs made it mandatory Everrgreen which makes it I personally think even worse, now optional it would work for those who want to go that route and those who wouldn't but making it so that everyone suffers because of those who were in favor of it isn't right as I see it. That'd be like making it so Dr Pepper only has one flavor it's a bad business decision.

[euroDSMtuner]

Some of the times when you get scaled down, take Dromund Kaas for example, as a level 18, you can steamroll through nearly every NPC on the planet just by sneezing. Several other planets also need to have their level's scaled down by 2-3 levels so we can actually have a bit of resistance to work with as a challenge.

[DragonBIS]

I for one really like the new system. Syncing is great for lvling, you always get exp. You steamroll anything the same way You did before the 4.0. And for me running the Heroics now is far more quicker than it was before. Mainly because of the auto rewards and the teleport item. No need to run around the npcs, no need to fly around the planets, pop and Your by the quest area. Really don`t understand the arguments about it taking longer now. For me it takes a significantly less time that it did before. Edited October 22, 2015 by DragonBIS

[Tenzarin]

I'm not going to say anything that hasn't been said already, but in case anyone from Bioware happens to read this, my Knights of the Fallen Empire experience was this:

 

 

• Look forward to the expansion.
  
• Excitedly log in to early access.
  
• See what they've done to companions & level syncing.
  
• Unsubscribe.
  

 

The type of gameplay I enjoyed the most - soloing old group content - is gone, so I'm taking my money & leaving.

 

Life's too short to pay for something you don't like any more.

[Mysterymanlives]

Being able to backtrack and do missions with ease was a neat feature of SWTOR. I enjoyed soloing flashpoints and even helping a single person get through a flashpoint because no one else was in queue to do it. This update has ruined a lot of gameplay that will be almost difficult to complete because they may not be able to find a group to help.

[Gallandaeus]

Oh give it a rest already. It's here, it's not going anywhere, we can stop pretending this is a democracy.

 

QFT

 

Get used to it.

[-Calypso]

I am perfectly fine with the level sync. What is wrong with you? This actually provides you the opportunity to experience the old content at a challenging degree of difficulty! The only thing this really does in the long run is allow old content to be recycled. THAT IS AWESOME! Why would you not want that?

[serpentari]

+ for OPTIONAL level sync. and people who keep saying shut up - u are outnumbered. and wrong. we have total right to demand the game we pay for to be likable. level sync is NOT likable, and i am delighted i am so not alone with it. on levelling, i used to put much effort in crafting bis gear and being powerful. i dont want to feel like i am not only low level, but also wearing outdated greens. its not like demolishing poor little mobbity was best fun in my life, but if was fun. and i dont really see why the hell i, lvlcapped player in ops gear, should have any problem killing levelling mobs. with no choice. At l65 i dont need exp, and whole point of level sync is to enable us to get it. so why should i struggle against stupid l20 mobs with no profit (since my legacy is very long since level capped, and so are my characters). give me a choice, there are enough people who want it. because i have no damn reason to ever go and mess with outdated mobbity synched down to shreds.

[-Calypso]

Exactly it's mandatory, it's forcing a choice on those who do not want it the very definition of the word:

 

mandatory

(ˈmændətərɪ; -trɪ)

adj

1. (Law) having the nature or powers of a mandate

2. obligatory; compulsory

 

And because it's a choice forced onto people some (myself included) do not care for it. What if I want to go to dromund kaas and do the heroics for extra datacrystals to get gear for companions, or myself or for an alt? Where it would take say a few minutes for a level 60 it now takes longer, that's time taken away. Secondly as said repeatedly it's not something I wanted and as a customer the person giving money to the people who make the game who pays essentially for their paychecks, their servers and equipment is not my opinion a valuable one?

 

Sorry to see you go DT can understand why though.

Look my friend. I understand your frustration, but you are hanging on to what was. Everything that you have worked hard for, you STILL have! From this point everyone has the same opportunity, with the same challenge. The playing field has been leveled. Old players can respect that because they still have what they worked hard for. New players are happy because they can play WITH the old players! ITS WIN WIN!

[-Calypso]

+ for OPTIONAL level sync. and people who keep saying shut up - u are outnumbered. and wrong. we have total right to demand the game we pay for to be likable. level sync is NOT likable, and i am delighted i am so not alone with it. on levelling, i used to put much effort in crafting bis gear and being powerful. i dont want to feel like i am not only low level, but also wearing outdated greens. its not like demolishing poor little mobbity was best fun in my life, but if was fun. and i dont really see why the hell i, lvlcapped player in ops gear, should have any problem killing levelling mobs. with no choice. At l65 i dont need exp, and whole point of level sync is to enable us to get it. so why should i struggle against stupid l20 mobs with no profit (since my legacy is very long since level capped, and so are my characters). give me a choice, there are enough people who want it. because i have no damn reason to ever go and mess with outdated mobbity synched down to shreds.

 

Remind me why you play this game again? Is it for the challenge? No? Or do you just like to wear your badges and be proud of all that you've accomplished? If you want to do that, go right ahead. But if you want to stay on TOP you are gonna have to keep working, buddy. That's the sport of it. That's the competition. You are just angry because you've lost your advantage. Why? Because now its hard for you too? THATS THE POINT! THE CHALLENGE IS WHY WE PLAY THE GAME!