Level synch = Revival of SWTOR

[Peoples_General]

My big concern with level sync is that it'll make it impossible to kill commanders for planetary conquests (or, for that matter, base guards for OWPVP).

 

Say I, having played to 65, go to Hoth. I'll be level synced down to level 40 or so. Whatever. I get an ops group of my guildies to kill the opposite faction's planetary commander for the encryption/framework drop. But the commander and his surrounding guards are still 60, or 65 if they get adjusted to the new cap.

 

I'm "level synced" 25 levels below what I'm trying to kill, even though I should be the same level. So level sync is going to take away the ability to hit something that I should be able to hit, unless base defenses are also taking level sync into account. And no one asked that question on the stream, either.

 

I'm sure they'll scale down the Guards and Commanders, but personally my concern is the ability for low level players to interfere, since the "level synced 65s" who get flagged for entering the enemy base can now get attacked and "ganked" by lowbies.

 

Currently the only ones who would interfere are other high level players. But now, a group of guild-less lowbies can attack your healers, kill them, and then your party DIES to the Commander and Guards and you end up with a Level 65 appropriate repair bill, because with level sync, you now have wider range of players who can interfere.

[Juromaro]

You don't RP, do you?

 

Many locations on low-lvl planets are great for RP sessions. Take a walk into Tython mountains with your padawan. Go on search of ancient artifacts into Belsavis tombs. Sneak into sand people village. Go feed your enemy to sarlacc. Free a hostage from pirate den. And so on.

 

There are a lot of great location populated with enemy mobs. When they are grey, they ignore you, unless you step on them. So you can have your RP session uninterrupted even in the middle of heroic area.

 

In 4.0 it will become impossible, because mobs will aggro to you no matter what, no matter how many levels you are above them.

 

For some people it is not about stomping weak mobs or easy commendations. It is about going into nice locations and have uninterrupted conversation. Which will be absolutely impossible when 4.0 hits.

 

And trust me, having to stop conversation every four minutes to kill respawning mobs is NOT fun.

 

((But I understand, everyone must play the way you play. How dare people enjoy the game differently!))

 

On the contrary I Roleplay quite a bit, but I also don't roleplay in areas where mobs can attack me or respawn on top of me, plenty of beautiful venues in the galaxy that don't have mobs surrounding them. But that's just my taste.

 

Besides me personally I have no problems breaking immersion to lay the beatdown on some npcs, to me it's no different than breaking immersion to say ((Brb bathroom)) or ((Spelling correction)). Besides from a story point of view why would you hang out in hostile territory anyway if you're not prepared to do combat?(not a jab, actually curious))

Edited October 1, 2015 by Juromaro

[Tsillah]

Sorry you're wrong, we will not be the same, we will be a weakened parody of ourselves, with no say in the matter. It would be different if this only happened if we were doing the heroics or whatever else they add, but if I just want to go to the planet and gather materials or maybe just RP, my toon shouldn't be de-powered by just setting foot on the planet.

 

I never got this need to be 40 levels higher than mobs so you can kill them with one fifth of a hit instead of 2 hits. First of all you get no xp for it as they are too low level and all it allows you to do is easy mode through heroics for commendations that you can use at level 60 even.

 

As for gathering, well, we'll have to see what they've done with crafting first because stuff is changing there too.

 

People are just jumping to all sorts of conclusions because that's what people do.

[Tsillah]

How about when you are in a heroic area, you will be level sync. Then outside of those heroic areas you are at max level. This would be good compromise.

 

The expansion's early access starts in less than 3 weeks...it's too late to worry about compromises. It's a done deal.

[Allamirr]

Make it so mobs dont aggro (unless stepping on them like how it is now) or knock you off your mount you while scaled. Then most people can live with the scaled down crap on the planets. You want to fight that stuff every step you take, then go for it, beat your self black and blue on them for all i care. But dont force everyone else that dont want that kind of aggro on them from NEWBIE mobs.

[SteveTheCynic]

Which would only work on Heroics that are behind an instance wall. The heroics that are in open world would be much harder to set up in that manner.

Really? They aren't in an area whose name shows up purple with [HEROIC] on it?

[Tsillah]

You don't RP, do you?

 

Many locations on low-lvl planets are great for RP sessions. Take a walk into Tython mountains with your padawan. Go on search of ancient artifacts into Belsavis tombs. Sneak into sand people village. Go feed your enemy to sarlacc. Free a hostage from pirate den. And so on.

 

There are a lot of great location populated with enemy mobs. When they are grey, they ignore you, unless you step on them. So you can have your RP session uninterrupted even in the middle of heroic area.

 

In 4.0 it will become impossible, because mobs will aggro to you no matter what, no matter how many levels you are above them.

 

For some people it is not about stomping weak mobs or easy commendations. It is about going into nice locations and have uninterrupted conversation. Which will be absolutely impossible when 4.0 hits.

 

And trust me, having to stop conversation every four minutes to kill respawning mobs is NOT fun.

 

((But I understand, everyone must play the way you play. How dare people enjoy the game differently!))

 

I find this ironic somehow.

 

How do you explain in RP terms that you come to a "low level" planet to begin with? Leveling really makes no sense if you think about it. It's a progression mechanic that is actually very unrealistic. Why would the mobs on tython be less powerful as a whole than the ones on Tatooine or Corellia?

 

If you think that walking into an enemy zone being ignored by the enemy makes sense from a RP point of view I have to put question marks with your brand of RP. This downleveling might actually make more sense from a RP point of view.

[Mikahrtwo]

Only compromise I'll agree to is if you don't level sync you cannot get credits, trash, loot, xp, or kill credit if you are 7 levels about max level for planet.

 

Yup, no quest loot (no quest advancement), no achievent advancement, absolutely nothing.

 

Pretty much if you kill gray mob you get zilch.

 

Now that would be acceptable compromise.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Mikahrtwo

[Mikahrtwo]

I find this ironic somehow.

 

How do you explain in RP terms that you come to a "low level" planet to begin with? Leveling really makes no sense if you think about it. It's a progression mechanic that is actually very unrealistic. Why would the mobs on tython be less powerful as a whole than the ones on Tatooine or Corellia?

 

If you think that walking into an enemy zone being ignored by the enemy makes sense from a RP point of view I have to put question marks with your brand of RP. This downleveling might actually make more sense from a RP point of view.

 

Yup, i dont see how poster can speak of RP where "mobs are grey and ignore you" lol

 

"look, a field full of enemies, lets go in a middle and have few hours of convo, our sworn enemies wont mind us"

[SelinaH]

Yup, i dont see how poster can speak of RP where "mobs are grey and ignore you" lol

 

"look, a field full of enemies, lets go in a middle and have few hours of convo, our sworn enemies wont mind us"

It's called "handwaving." Unfortunately, it's kind of difficult to handwave persistent mob aggro when you're just trying to have a conversation.

 

If roleplay could only happen if everything in the game environment and mechanics were 100% realistic and consistent with in-character perceptions, the only place we might find any RP at all would be in a tabletop game.

[SnakeSNMF]

Oh you're adorable <3

 

Enjoy those 10 matches a day

 

you must be a little sour because you lose the ten matches you're in against her lolllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

[SteveTheCynic]

If you don't want to go to trash mobs, then don't do the dailies on the lower level planets if it's that big of a deal for you. There is now a reason to step foot onto lower level planets. Before there wasn't. Doesn't mean you have to do any of that content if you don't wish to see the level scaling. Choose what you want.

So when I go to Ord Mantell on my HL trooper or smuggler, so I can lay waste to the savrip island, and get 9 basic comms for my non-trouble, that's apparently not a reason?

 

(My 60 Gunnery Commando can one-shot everything except the champion savrip by the puddle, and that only two-shots on the basic attack. I actually find it, you know, like, fun to do this, anyway. Hey, "it's fun" sounds like a reason to me...)

[mudmobile]

The expansion's early access starts in less than 3 weeks...it's too late to worry about compromises. It's a done deal.

Which would be a main reason they waited until now to tell us.

 

Now it was possible for DCUO to take out a similar change with their GU47 in less time after the community vehemently objected to it. But sadly from the looks of it SWTOR's is far more complicated, meaning the chances of a change are 0.

[sentientomega]

You guys are making this a much bigger deal than it is!! Older planets are now relevant! You will STILL STAY your same level, have all your abilities, have all your stuffs, have everything you did when you earned those levels. It's all still there! but you will get a scaled level that is beside your character level that allows you to do the dailies and new missions on each planet so you can do even more stuff to get more gear and more credits for your character to have more fun in the game! It is not taking away your gear or making you a crappy version of anything. It's not the "death of the game" at all. More missions will probably be added to it to make a ton of missions of these new ones. You can still go there to gather, you can still go there to RP. None of that is changing whatsoever about still wanting to do that.

 

I am explaining this system to people who might need to understand how it works. I am neither for or against it yet because I have not played it myself but from what I can see it was not done poorly nor will it "screw the game" as some are claiming! I think it will make the game even better. Things are relevant again. I can see this setting something up for the future of the game as well perhaps for open world pvp to!

 

YOU will still have your same level. It is just making a scaling level so the way they are doing it now is, when you go back to the planet you will be able to keep on doing content so you have something to do in the game instead of just the few things at max level. There will now be loads of things to do! If you think about it, it's actually giving the player more options to do things! Instead of sitting around with nothing to do.

 

I'm just optimistic about it guys, you know me! I am neither for or against it and don't have any expectations. I have to see for myself as well how it works before I make any decisions. I am hopeful but if it's not what I want, I won't throw a fit about it. It seems as though it is a little bit like GW2, but not completely which is not bad. But we'll see. You have to remain optimistic and take a rational approach to things to see it better. If things don't turn out to be what you wanted, just say goodbye and move on. There's no need for theatrics or to start name calling.

 

Also, I would like to tell you all right now. If you take anything I say as a personal attack or being rude, I am sorry in advance and I don't mean to come across as such. We have our disagreements, but there is no need for bad blood. Sometimes yes, I appear foolish and yes, I appear as a white knight which I will admit I am one most of the time. Although I have disagreed with the direction of some stuff. I do defend the game hardcore but a lot of the time I am being optimistic about it and I just love it THAT much! That's just how I am about a lot of things in life. I don't get myself disappointed in things. And I surely don't mean to come across as mean or angry to you guys! I like you guys and don't want to see you leave! I like you all here and I like being here.

 

Let's all take a step back, breathe, and just wait till it launches or more explanations so we can see for ourselves.

 

Thanks,

Sarfux

 

Number 1 White Knight in the Galaxy!

 

Thank you for your candour, I have to say, and I never thought I'd say it, I find the notion strangely attractive.

 

If I can solo the hardest H2+s without getting palpitations, I'll throw my weight behind the change 100%. Until I know for sure, I remain cautiously optimistic.

[Mikahrtwo]

It's called "handwaving." Unfortunately, it's kind of difficult to handwave persistent mob aggro when you're just trying to have a conversation.

 

If roleplay could only happen if everything in the game environment and mechanics were 100% realistic and consistent with in-character perceptions, the only place we might find any RP at all would be in a tabletop game.

 

Thats why you dont go having few hours convos in middle of enemy territory. Or find a spot where you wont draw aggro.

 

Alas, my compromise solution would accoumodate even quircky requests like this.

[sosolidshoe]

I never got this need to be 40 levels higher than mobs so you can kill them with one fifth of a hit instead of 2 hits. First of all you get no xp for it as they are too low level and all it allows you to do is easy mode through heroics for commendations that you can use at level 60 even.

 

As for gathering, well, we'll have to see what they've done with crafting first because stuff is changing there too.

 

People are just jumping to all sorts of conclusions because that's what people do.

 

It's not just the speed with which they die, it's the fact that most of them never attack you at all. Right now, I can go RP on most of my favourite planets(Korriban, Tatooine, DK, Tython, even Hoth) as a high level character with no problems whatsoever, because the trash mobs ignore me 99% of the time and in the 1% of the time they do attack, usually while on my speeder, it's no annoyance because all their attacks miss and they have essentially zero chance of knocking me off.

 

Now all of those fun, interesting, visually exciting locations in the game; the Korriban tombs, wilds of Tython & Hoth, pirate strongholds on Tatooine etc, all of those are off-limits for RP because you'll be perpetually under attack from trash mobs.

 

The same issues(aggro, speeder knockoff) apply for things like Bounty Week; the idea of slaughtering my way across a planet's worth of lowbie trash mobs on multiple characters just so I can do a 60 sec Gold mob fight isn't even remotely appealing, indeed the exact opposite.

[Faelandaea]

Yeah he kinda rested my case for me. What's hilarious is in another thread he was bashing on people for using /ignore, saying using such a feature means you are "sticking your head in the sand." Oxymoron much? LOL.

 

Anyway, back to the subject at hand, I am glad they are making the sync. No matter how much the high-level farmers whine that they can't harass the low level folks any more, it's going to be a great addition for leveling, for helping friends, for rewards (now all missions, regardless of sync, drop stuff appropriate to your pre-sync level - AWESOME!!!), and the list goes on. The positives of this FAR outweigh the negative - of which the only negative I have seen people come up with is, precisely translated, the "inability to troll low level players."

[Aries_cz]

It is a giant nerf to your character. How much of a nerf depends obviously on what planet you go to. But I'll feel reassured to still have all my levels to look at when sat on the fleet or my ship. I guess I can still use them with the combat dummy. Great RPG this, earn levels you can use with your combat dummy :/

 

All your abilities remain, all your gear remains, and you are on the highest level possible to make the quest and mobs grant XP. Only the output of your abilities get scaled, and you can actually get hit.

[Transairion]

I never got this need to be 40 levels higher than mobs so you can kill them with one fifth of a hit instead of 2 hits. First of all you get no xp for it as they are too low level and all it allows you to do is easy mode through heroics for commendations that you can use at level 60 even.

 

It's not quite like that.

 

I know some people who want to gather an assload of Biochem mats will go do one of the Republic Voss Heroics and slaughter all those mobs then Biochem them. I earn credits far more efficiently than dailies by soloing a Heroic 4 with like, 70 gold mobs in it on Corellia then resetting the instance.

 

If I want any sub-60 cosmetic gear (for example, let's use Forceslayer on Kaas), I can go farm Heroics for blue drops which can include the orange shells. It takes a lot, a lot of resets to get one of those drops, let alone a specific peice drop (let's say Hellfire armor set peice for Bounty Hunter).

 

 

All this will become so inefficient post KOTFE, if not outright impossible, it'll be a huge chore even more than it is at 60 while overlevelled. It's gonna be unpleasant. Probably to the point of no longer bothering at all.

 

 

.... anyone else thinking Alliances = downbolster = go do old content again is sounding a lot like Conquest 2.0?

[Aries_cz]

I'm sure they'll scale down the Guards and Commanders, but personally my concern is the ability for low level players to interfere, since the "level synced 65s" who get flagged for entering the enemy base can now get attacked and "ganked" by lowbies.

 

Currently the only ones who would interfere are other high level players. But now, a group of guild-less lowbies can attack your healers, kill them, and then your party DIES to the Commander and Guards and you end up with a Level 65 appropriate repair bill, because with level sync, you now have wider range of players who can interfere.

 

To be honest, that actually sounds like a good thing. It will get mostly rid of the max level people farming lowbies once they set foot outside the base...

[Transairion]

No matter how much the high-level farmers whine that they can't harass the low level folks any more, it's going to be a great addition for leveling, for helping friends, for rewards (now all missions, regardless of sync, drop stuff appropriate to your pre-sync level - AWESOME!!!), and the list goes on. The positives of this FAR outweigh the negative - of which the only negative I have seen people come up with is, precisely translated, the "inability to troll low level players."

 

I guess you didn't read much of other people's opinions then, or just blocked them out. Or you're just on a PvP server anyway.

 

- "Scaled rewards" just means loss of old rewards. What if my 65 wants a rare level 13 drop? It's now impossible to get because mobs will only drop trash 65 gear? Can farm a planet for that stuff at present.

- No soloing of... basically anything that wasn't already easy. Get your World Bosses, FP, Heroics, basically anything that became easier due to overleveling out of the way now

- Getting knocked off speeder x1000 again. Worst part of levelling, getting knocked on my *** because a "at level" aggros far far further than an overlevelled one

 

Solo content is what I do when I've exhausted the other content and don't want to sit on my *** on Fleet just waiting for a queue to pop in this supposedly forced-socialization game. I don't want to become a Fleet bum just bored waiting for other players to actual queue.

[Negivv]

I haven't watched the latest stream yet, but if the level-sync they are going to implement is anything similar to the GW2 one there really is no point in all this crying around. Yes, it can be a bit annoying going back to low level areas and having to use 3 attacks instead of 1 standard attack to kill mobs, but it doesn't mean the game is broken or anything. I remember playing in low level zones in GW2 with a max level character and having no problem facerolling stuff even if I was downscaled at lvl 5, so if the new SWTOR system works similarly I don't see why all the whining around.

Besides, unless you go into a very specific area overcrowded with mobs, one can pretty much easily avoid most if not all of the NPCs around even while doing stuff on-level or underleveled.

 

I will wait to see the system live to have a proper opinion about it, but honestly, at the moment all the whining I see around seems pretty much just on the line of "*whine* I want to do things superquick and supereasy no matter what, 15 seconds more needed to do them are too much, *whine*". And this consideration is coming from someone who used to play just for the RP and not having enough time to dedicate to it anymore still plays pretty much only for the story/ies.

[Faelandaea]

Few people - very few people - post on forums unless they want to complain about something or debate about something. Sometimes, also, there's people like me who post on both sides of the fence while waiting for guild-mates to finish gathering for an op (like I am right now - WHY is there always ONE who has to refill their drink just before going in? LOL).

 

But I think that something a lot of people do not account for is the amount of players who are not here - and are just in the game enjoying themselves, because they do not have any issue with the upcoming changes (and yes they are all fully aware of the changes coming - gods only know it's been plastered in our faces via email, etc. since KotFE was announced).

 

I don't base my opinion on an "amount of replies in a thread" one way or the other. Least to say when someone says "look at the replies in this thread", I do . . . and I emphasize with you - I truly do - but I also consider all the people who are not here because they have no issues or concerns to rally on.

 

I think the devs see this also, so I am comfortable is thinking that these changes are here to stay.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Faelandaea

[tcgtqu]

Which would only work on Heroics that are behind an instance wall. The heroics that are in open world would be much harder to set up in that manner.

 

FF14ARR does it with its dynamic events, so why can't SWTOR?

[Shoraan]

and speaking of gathering mats for crafting. now that nodes scale with your crafting level. have fun farming for lower level mats! since you can no longer physically farm them on a maxed out character. there are still options. but... I have a feeling a few material selling whales might be using the next few weeks to stock up while they still can and then break the bank selling lower level mats at higher prices.

[...]

 

As far as I understood it, it will work like this (numbers not based on factual data but on what Musco said during the stream):

If you have Scavening at 500 and harvest Electrum Cache you might get 15x Electrum.

If you have Scavening at 100 and harvest Electrum Cache you might get 3x Electrum.

If you have Scavening at 1 and harvest Electrum Cache you might get 1x Electrum.

 

The material you get remains the same, but the quantity is scaled according to your crew skill level.

That means that low level materials might become far more abundant than what we have now.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Shoraan