Level synch = Revival of SWTOR

[Shipwright]

For some it may well be a revival. I think I'll have some fun with it.

 

For some it is the end of the road. I'm in a casual guild and since late Thursday, 8 (just lost another tonight, I learned) members have quit.

 

In short, after talking to them on Skype (it is a guild made up of a bunch of friends), they quit because of one reason. They cannot over level things while leveling to make it easier for them. It's just how they enjoy playing. If a quest is giving them some trouble at say, lvl 32, they level a bit and come back to do it.

 

So, they learned that we will be leveled to the max for the planet and said, forget it. Since they cannot out level stuff while leveling, they just dropped the game. They're all off with the first 3 to leave, who went to another game in which have they some characters.They don't care for having things be an edge-of-the-seat, winning by the skin of your teeth, victory.

 

Some players love that. They do not feel any fun if they don't struggle. Others, they play just because they enjoy playing whatever character/characters they like.

 

But, for these people, they just don't want to bother anymore. I tried playing devil's advocate to keep them playing. I mostly play healers, I have healed on things with them in the past, so I told them it's not a real problem. I'll just come along as a healer whenever they want.

 

No deal. They want to play as they like, period. As they have been playing. Though they do want me to join in this other game; I'll roll a healer there and see how I like it.

 

So it'll be somewhat of a revival for some people. However I am thinking now, that for some of the casual sort of players, it may end up being the opposite.

 

For what it's worth, 2 of these people joined GW2 with me, where I have bunch of characters. They hated it. The system we are getting in swtor is quite similar, so it is maybe no surprise that they left.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

For some it may well be a revival. I think I'll have some fun with it.

 

For some it is the end of the road. I'm in a casual guild and since late Thursday, 8 (just lost another tonight, I learned) members have quit.

 

In short, after talking to them on Skype (it is a guild made up of a bunch of friends), they quit because of one reason. They cannot over level things while leveling to make it easier for them. It's just how they enjoy playing. If a quest is giving them some trouble at say, lvl 32, they level a bit and come back to do it.

 

So, they learned that we will be leveled to the max for the planet and said, forget it. Since they cannot out level stuff while leveling, they just dropped the game. They're all off with the first 3 to leave, who went to another game in which have they some characters.They don't care for having things be an edge-of-the-seat, winning by the skin of your teeth, victory.

 

Some players love that. They do not feel any fun if they don't struggle. Others, they play just because they enjoy playing whatever character/characters they like.

 

But, for these people, they just don't want to bother anymore. I tried playing devil's advocate to keep them playing. I mostly play healers, I have healed on things with them in the past, so I told them it's not a real problem. I'll just come along as a healer whenever they want.

 

No deal. They want to play as they like, period. As they have been playing. Though they do want me to join in this other game; I'll roll a healer there and see how I like it.

 

So it'll be somewhat of a revival for some people. However I am thinking now, that for some of the casual sort of players, it may end up being the opposite.

 

For what it's worth, 2 of these people joined GW2 with me, where I have bunch of characters. They hated it. The system we are getting in swtor is quite similar, so it is maybe no surprise that they left.

 

Pretty good point and that's why overly I think this is a really stupid move for Bioware to make this mandatory. It's not going to attract in anywhere near as many new players than what it's going to lose.

 

Whilst I personally like the concept due to ease of finding groups etc. and more relevant end game content for a wee while I don't see why they made it mandatory beyond the inability ( time contraints perhaps ) to make it optional .

 

In another topic I was very pro the concept of having rewards removed/scaled if you chose not to sync but I've never thought making it mandatory was a very good plan. I can see this driving quite a few people away, especially once story content is done and there is less casual content for them to do.

[Lecaja]

I don't see how level synch won't be broken. You get keep all of your passives and abilities earned through higher levels. Even with your stats brought down to the planet level each character is going to be godlike or more godlike. I'm an average player but only other players in Warzones and Flashpoint mobs can kill me, a couple years ago that was most certainly not the case.

[MrBorsh]

Level syncing works perfectly in guilds wars 2. The only issue here in SWTOR is that people are already depressed already of this game and completely lost motivation. They are so naive when speaking to their friends who say one thing that they read on Reddit and then BioWare tells them something else. I think that BioWare is going the right direction with this. People here just need to stop acting like 80 year olds who have lost motivation of life.

[Taythan]

The only problem I can see with Level Sync is when you go back to a planet for something like the HK missions and you're using your scanner, the mobs that you can now pretty much ignore and allow your companion deal with while you scout your next location for a scan will now become mobs that you have to pay attention to or they will kill you. This will make missions like the HK parts missions and the macrobinocular missions etc an even bigger pain than they already are.

[DmdShiva]

The only problem I can see with Level Sync is when you go back to a planet for something like the HK missions and you're using your scanner, the mobs that you can now pretty much ignore and allow your companion deal with while you scout your next location for a scan will now become mobs that you have to pay attention to or they will kill you. This will make missions like the HK parts missions and the macrobinocular missions etc an even bigger pain than they already are.

 

And aren't there points in the macrobinocular missions where you eat an ambush after spotting one of the minidroids? All of those are going to have to be fixed, or you're going to find yourself (for example) on Dromund Kaas at an effective level of 20 facing a level-55 ambush. Whee.

[TravelersWay]

Just look at the years-long two-fools slapfight between Chris Roberts and Derek Smart.

 

On my Goodness. The flamewar follies! That was the most fun I ever had on Usenet.

[Hupp]

I think it is a good idea in general overall. I think it helps draw new players into the game when they can play with experienced players. They also get to see skills and gear that they can look forward to later in game. It also maximizes grouping by increasing the available players for content.

[Quraswren]

I think it is a good idea in general overall. I think it helps draw new players into the game when they can play with experienced players. They also get to see skills and gear that they can look forward to later in game. It also maximizes grouping by increasing the available players for content.

 

The rewards are basic comms so I don't see to many experienced players, especially higher level ones, going back for that.

 

The best hope you have is them going back to help a friend which is cool and all but a mentoring system would have been better and optional.

 

I think most gamers went back to old planets to farm things. Credits, decos, gear customizations. Things like that. It was easy and fun and just mindless entertainment.

 

Down leveling them, suddenly some of that interest in gone. An added hurdle that just didn't need to be there all the time. I actually think you're going to see less people on planets than ever before.

 

Decent game play feature, it really just needed to be optional.

Edited October 4, 2015 by Quraswren

[smurftube]

You guys are making this a much bigger deal than it is!! Older planets are now relevant! You will STILL STAY your same level, have all your abilities, have all your stuffs, have everything you did when you earned those levels. It's all still there! but you will get a scaled level that is beside your character level that allows you to do the dailies and new missions on each planet so you can do even more stuff to get more gear and more credits for your character to have more fun in the game! It is not taking away your gear or making you a crappy version of anything. It's not the "death of the game" at all. More missions will probably be added to it to make a ton of missions of these new ones. You can still go there to gather, you can still go there to RP. None of that is changing whatsoever about still wanting to do that.

 

I am explaining this system to people who might need to understand how it works. I am neither for or against it yet because I have not played it myself but from what I can see it was not done poorly nor will it "screw the game" as some are claiming! I think it will make the game even better. Things are relevant again. I can see this setting something up for the future of the game as well perhaps for open world pvp to!

 

YOU will still have your same level. It is just making a scaling level so the way they are doing it now is, when you go back to the planet you will be able to keep on doing content so you have something to do in the game instead of just the few things at max level. There will now be loads of things to do! If you think about it, it's actually giving the player more options to do things! Instead of sitting around with nothing to do.

 

I'm just optimistic about it guys, you know me! I am neither for or against it and don't have any expectations. I have to see for myself as well how it works before I make any decisions. I am hopeful but if it's not what I want, I won't throw a fit about it. It seems as though it is a little bit like GW2, but not completely which is not bad. But we'll see. You have to remain optimistic and take a rational approach to things to see it better. If things don't turn out to be what you wanted, just say goodbye and move on. There's no need for theatrics or to start name calling.

 

Also, I would like to tell you all right now. If you take anything I say as a personal attack or being rude, I am sorry in advance and I don't mean to come across as such. We have our disagreements, but there is no need for bad blood. Sometimes yes, I appear foolish and yes, I appear as a white knight which I will admit I am one most of the time. Although I have disagreed with the direction of some stuff. I do defend the game hardcore but a lot of the time I am being optimistic about it and I just love it THAT much! That's just how I am about a lot of things in life. I don't get myself disappointed in things. And I surely don't mean to come across as mean or angry to you guys! I like you guys and don't want to see you leave! I like you all here and I like being here.

 

Let's all take a step back, breathe, and just wait till it launches or more explanations so we can see for ourselves.

 

Thanks,

Sarfux

 

Number 1 White Knight in the Galaxy!

 

Love your post.

 

Regardless how level syncing actually affects the game, one very nice possibility the system adds is the ability for developers to add new content to existing planets. The opening up of the current heroics are nice, but new story lines taking us back to familiar territory could be a lot of fun, as well as a less expensive development option to produce. And if dynamic PVE/PVP events ever get added, there won't be any level disparities to complicate things for any of the players. Everyone gets to participate; everywhere; all the time.

 

EDIT: er .. well, every max level character gets to participate; everywhere; all the time. Lower level characters will still have to level in order to gain access to higher level content. I guess that just means leveling is still going to be a worthwhile adventure.

Edited October 4, 2015 by smurftube

[Max_Killjoy]

For some it may well be a revival. I think I'll have some fun with it.

 

For some it is the end of the road. I'm in a casual guild and since late Thursday, 8 (just lost another tonight, I learned) members have quit.

 

In short, after talking to them on Skype (it is a guild made up of a bunch of friends), they quit because of one reason. They cannot over level things while leveling to make it easier for them. It's just how they enjoy playing. If a quest is giving them some trouble at say, lvl 32, they level a bit and come back to do it.

 

So, they learned that we will be leveled to the max for the planet and said, forget it. Since they cannot out level stuff while leveling, they just dropped the game. They're all off with the first 3 to leave, who went to another game in which have they some characters.They don't care for having things be an edge-of-the-seat, winning by the skin of your teeth, victory.

 

Some players love that. They do not feel any fun if they don't struggle. Others, they play just because they enjoy playing whatever character/characters they like.

 

But, for these people, they just don't want to bother anymore. I tried playing devil's advocate to keep them playing. I mostly play healers, I have healed on things with them in the past, so I told them it's not a real problem. I'll just come along as a healer whenever they want.

 

No deal. They want to play as they like, period. As they have been playing. Though they do want me to join in this other game; I'll roll a healer there and see how I like it.

 

So it'll be somewhat of a revival for some people. However I am thinking now, that for some of the casual sort of players, it may end up being the opposite.

 

For what it's worth, 2 of these people joined GW2 with me, where I have bunch of characters. They hated it. The system we are getting in swtor is quite similar, so it is maybe no surprise that they left.

 

 

Thank you for posting that.

 

I'm one of those people who isn't looking for a sense of struggle and/or adrenaline in a video game.

 

(If it was safe to have one's adrenal glands removed, I would. I hate that feeling.)

Edited October 4, 2015 by Max_Killjoy

[Azareya]

And aren't there points in the macrobinocular missions where you eat an ambush after spotting one of the minidroids? All of those are going to have to be fixed, or you're going to find yourself (for example) on Dromund Kaas at an effective level of 20 facing a level-55 ambush. Whee.

 

Betting that they forget about this and they're just gonna remove the macrobinocular and seeker droid quests

Edited October 4, 2015 by Azareya

[Faelandaea]

Keep forced level sync ... BUT .. make a special instance on each planet where sync is NOT forced so that those people who want to run around at much higher level can do so without interfering with those who are honestly trying to do content to level up.

 

Not that many high levels at a time go back to old planets to do whatever it is they do there, so one instance per planet is enough.

[Max_Killjoy]

Keep forced level sync ... BUT .. make a special instance on each planet where sync is NOT forced so that those people who want to run around at much higher level can do so without interfering with those who are honestly trying to do content to level up.

 

Not that many high levels at a time go back to old planets to do whatever it is they do there, so one instance per planet is enough.

 

At least that's a compromise that gives more people more fun from the game.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

The rewards are basic comms so I don't see to many experienced players, especially higher level ones, going back for that.

.

 

I believe you get both basic and elites for doing the content 61+

[SithEmpress]

I think both sides have made some good points, but what I'm most worried about is the system actual working right. I mean they have struggled to get bolster to work. So I'm very worried about them getting it right, when there so many factors to be take into account. Like people wearing mixed gear from leveling, different kind of mission, etc. I will not be surprise if there are mission or content that can't be done due to scaling bugs. Player might even have problem as the system doesn't scale them right. I hope I'm wrong but the track recorder for them releasing content that isn't full of bugs isn't very good.

 

As for group content I think it might increase the number of players willing to do group stuff a little but I think people are acting like its going to make this massive change in group content. I think there getting there hope up a little too much. There isn't going to be a huge shift, those who don't like group content will continue to not do it. Look at how many players have been with the game for years and still haven't complete all the flashpoints of course that why there adding in even more solo flashpoints. I guess well just have to wait and see how it turns out.

Edited October 4, 2015 by SithEmpress

[Faelandaea]

At least that's a compromise that gives more people more fun from the game.

 

Yeah it's the only way I can think of that would keep everyone happy all around. This entire sync thing has caused so much ruckus and stress on the forums that people are starting to tear into each other in a panic, and I've seen people at each others' throats that probably normally wouldn't be. In SWTOR this topic is about as volatile as some very controversial presidential topics have been in the real world news as of late..

 

We need to start hitting the devs with compromises. And this seems a good idea. In fact, Max I think it was one of your posts that I saw this idea in.

[Max_Killjoy]

Yeah it's the only way I can think of that would keep everyone happy all around. This entire sync thing has caused so much ruckus and stress on the forums that people are starting to tear into each other in a panic, and I've seen people at each others' throats that probably normally wouldn't be. In SWTOR this topic is about as volatile as some very controversial presidential topics have been in the real world news as of late..

 

We need to start hitting the devs with compromises. And this seems a good idea. In fact, Max I think it was one of your posts that I saw this idea in.

 

It was one of my suggestions; someone else may have also made it at some point, it's been kinda crazy.

 

Removes all chances of griefing, conflict, crossed-up leveling between mobs and PCs, etc -- because the synced and the unsynced are effectively on entirely separate worlds.

Edited October 4, 2015 by Max_Killjoy

[Exield]

optional level sync is the way to go. Mandotory level sync is out of the question.

[DmdShiva]

I think both sides have made some good points, but what I'm most worried about is the system actual working right. I mean they have struggled to get bolster to work. So I'm very worried about them getting it right, when there so many factors to be take into account. Like people wearing mixed gear from leveling, different kind of mission, etc.

 

Or simply from taking a quick, fast, and dirty solution that shortchanges players. For example, if they implement stat scaling based on your total stat values and the relative character level and synced level, and you go to a planet where your gear stats are scaled down to 25% of their 'real' values. If you were an unsynced character with level-10 Hawkeye crystals in your weapon and offhand, you'd be getting +82 Power from them; with syncing only looking at your total stats, you'd be getting +20 Power from them, even though the crystals are lower-level than what you're syncing to. But scaling each component of your gear is more complicated to code, and my bet is on Bioware taking the fast and easy solution, because after all, characters getting level-synced are keeping their high-level abilities, so they're already coming out ahead, so gimping them in one part of the conversion doesn't really hurt them overall, right?

[Bomyne]

Yeah, no. Level sync isn't a sought after MMO feature... I really don't think it'll have an effect... either way... on the subscription level.

 

I think it'll frustrate some players, and excite other players... and both sides will continue to argue their case on these forums for many months to come, with Bioware ignoring both of them...

 

But will it bring players back? No.

 

BUT

 

Fallen Empire might do that with its story content. It brought me back.

[branmakmuffin]

optional level sync is the way to go. Mandotory level sync is out of the question.

You seem to think there is something you can do about it (other than cancel your subscription).

Edited October 4, 2015 by branmakmuffin

[Aries_cz]

Problem is - you can't level the "normal" way. 12x XP is becoming a permanent feature in the game with no opt out, so people who actually do want to level normally will only be able to do it for the first couple of quests on the starter planet. From then on, they will be permanently over-leveled and thusly permanently synced - unless of course they want to skip a whole bunch of content along the way. Not fun.

 

Ok, you you have a problem with 12XP being "permanent", as it makes your character way overleveled, but at the same time, you have a problem with system that keeps you still in a zone that still makes quests reward you?

 

It seems like you are contradicting yourself.

 

Or is your gripe about you seeing a orange colored indicator next to your level?

[Eanelinea]

It was one of my suggestions; someone else may have also made it at some point, it's been kinda crazy.

 

Removes all chances of griefing, conflict, crossed-up leveling between mobs and PCs, etc -- because the synced and the unsynced are effectively on entirely separate worlds.

 

Separate instances would be a good way of making it optional without actually making it optional in a sense. They just go to a different part of a low level world. Pick up heroic DK mission from fleet terminal? You're in the level synced version of DK where you are level 18. Fly to DK to grab a datacron you forgot? You're level 60 go in grab it and head out.

 

Yeah, this would work well. I like this in lieu of an actual optional toggle thing.

[Kiesu]

It was one of my suggestions; someone else may have also made it at some point, it's been kinda crazy.

Yeah, was trying to find that suggestion. Didnt one find from earlier than mine..

 

This is indeed the only completely working way of implementing an "optional sync" from what i have read.

 

The idea actually originally came from PVPers figuring what to do about server depopulation, and came up with that; requesting server merge with PVE server, with the only difference being PVP and PVE on planets were instanced via map dropdown menu. To the addition could be added SYNC instance.

 

The only issue i can imagine with it is people feeling syncers need to work harder for reward than facerollers, but if people are fine with not actually getting rewards while doing lowbi stuff on unsynced instance, then i see no issue.

 

Though, its been years since the idea been tossed around, and they still havent done it :\

Makes one wonder if they dont have what it takes to make entire instances with different properties, is it a financial problem, or cant they just be arsed

Edited October 4, 2015 by Kiesu