Mandatory Level Sync, dumbest idea ever...No POINT in having a level based system.

[Tsillah]

If we equate the forum posters to the entire subscriber base, then it's about 75% against levelsync based on the posts in that one thread at least.

 

Let's not equate that because there is no reason to. And the 75% you quote is not reliable for me either because I don't think it was achieved objectively or unbiased as far as I'm concerned.

 

The whole point of speculating on the ratio is to illustrate that even if that's skewed by "who comes to post" issues and other things, it's still showing that opposition to levelsync overall is unlikely to be "insignificant".

 

There is no need for that. All you have to say is that there are player who don't like it and what matters then is how many of them will actually quit the game over it. I've also been very upset in the past at decisions of BW and I haven't actually quit, except once in the first year when the game really was in a bad shape but I came back after a couple of months. And this is why this speculation is pointless, because unless people massively quit over this and/or don't resub within a month or two, what happens on the forum is completely useless as a foundation.

 

Even if we were to suppose that it's skewed by a figure of 6:1, then it's still a quarter of the subscribers who are against it.

 

The only way to completely dismiss what we've seen here is to presume that the "skew factor" is more like 20:1.

 

More useless speculation.

 

What matters is what happens in the next few weeks, starting on Tuesday and it will have very little to do with this forum since the vast majority of players doesn't even come here to post to begin with.

 

You see, it could be true that a lot of people quit over it. I don't know and I don't expect it, but it could be true. However, this forum does nothing more than indicate that there is smoke, but certainly not how big the fire is and even less whether this fire will keep burning or not. With every big patch or expansion there are people complaining here about various points. This is no different from previous times. Remember the massive forum assplosion over the price of guild ships or that gambling machine decoration? These things happen. They come and they go.

 

They can see that there is an issue, but it doesn't meant that what happens on the forum actually represent the player base because the game didn't fall apart the last 10 times (random number) either and most people do have the capacity to get over their anger and give it a bit of perspective.

 

And that's why I insist that your speculations might as well be completely made up.

Edited October 18, 2015 by Tsillah

[Max_Killjoy]

I'm in favor of level sync and I believe you are incorrect. I know you are from my perspective. When I can run around in "God Mode" where NPCs can't even damage me it ruins my immerision and I'm not engaged in the game. If the mobs present at least some danger to me then I have to pay attention, I'm engaged, and that makes it more interesting. I may be able to take on 3 or 4 mobs level sync'd where I could barely take on one while leveling, but that makes sense to me. I'm a more expeirenced figther so being able to take on a "few" more mobs makes sense.

 

First, this is about a lot more than "god mode". People have been over all the other issues, but it never seems to sink into the conversation, and we're right back at "god mode".

 

Second, from what we've seen, you'll kill those mobs in 2 or 3 hits, instead of 1, and at least in the steam of Musco playing, they could barely hurt his PC despite being silver and gold mobs. I just don't see this as any more "engaging" or "interesting" -- just more tedious, when, at least for me, the last thing I'm there to do on those planets is fight those mobs (when taking a max level back to a low-level planet).

[Max_Killjoy]

Let's not equate that because there is no reason to. And the 75% you quote is not reliable for me either because I don't think it was achieved objectively or unbiased as far as I'm concerned.

 

 

 

There is no need for that. All you have to say is that there are player who don't like it and what matters then is how many of them will actually quit the game over it. I've also been very upset in the past at decisions of BW and I haven't actually quit, except once in the first year when the game really was in a bad shape but I came back after a couple of months. And this is why this speculation is pointless, because unless people massively quit over this and/or don't resub within a month or two, what happens on the forum is completely useless as a foundation.

 

 

 

More useless speculation.

 

What matters is what happens in the next few weeks, starting on Tuesday and it will have very little to do with this forum since the vast majority of players doesn't even come here to post to begin with.

 

You see, it could be true that a lot of people quit over it. I don't know and I don't expect it, but it could be true. However, this forum does nothing more than indicate that there is smoke, but certainly not how big the fire is and even less whether this fire will keep burning or not. With every big patch or expansion there are people complaining here about various points. This is no different from previous times. Remember the massive forum assplosion over the price of guild ships or that gambling machine decoration? These things happen. They come and they go.

 

They can see that there is an issue, but it doesn't meant that what happens on the forum actually represent the player base because the game didn't fall apart the last 10 times (random number) either and most people do have the capacity to get over their anger and give it a bit of perspective.

 

And that's why I insist that your speculations might as well be completely made up.

 

I'm not guaranteeing that the game will fall apart, just responding to those who think that the complaints and opposition posts are absolutely meaningless and absolutely nothing to cause concern.

 

And the numbers I'm working from (135 to 44 at the time) come from someone who said he was in favor of levelsync, and was careful enough that he listed out every name he counted to avoid double-counting the same person.

[Tsillah]

I'm not guaranteeing that the game will fall apart, just responding to those who think that the complaints and opposition posts are absolutely meaningless and absolutely nothing to cause concern.

 

And the numbers I'm working from (135 to 44 at the time) come from someone who said he was in favor of levelsync, and was careful enough that he listed out every name he counted to avoid double-counting the same person.

 

Well, whatever the numbers were back then in that post which is of course outdated by now, it all won't matter. It's gonna happen in two days and we will see.

 

Btw, just realised, this thread is actually about how level sync supposedly makes levels obsolete, which I don't agree with for factual reasons.

 

Think we should get back on topic?

[EllieAnne]

at least in the steam of Musco playing, they could barely hurt his PC despite being silver and gold mobs. .

 

Can we please stop pulling that up as proof? We have been asking to see Eric soloing the top level Heroic on Voss or Hoth or Belsavis as a fairer example of how much of a nerf level-sync will be.

[EllieAnne]

I'm not guaranteeing that the game will fall apart, just responding to those who think that the complaints and opposition posts are absolutely meaningless and absolutely nothing to cause concern.

 

And the numbers I'm working from (135 to 44 at the time) come from someone who said he was in favor of levelsync, and was careful enough that he listed out every name he counted to avoid double-counting the same person.

 

Don't bother Max. You are talking to people that refuse to see that there has been a paradigm shift at BW/EA which is screw over longtime subs to collect some unknown number of f2p players.

[Walpurulis]

Best idea ever. If there is one thing i don't like about SWTOR is that the leveling experience breeds bad players and teaches players bad habits and does not punish them for it.

 

Thank you Bio-ware.

Edited October 18, 2015 by Walpurulis

[SithEmpress]

I see a few pro to the level sync. system but I can see it getting old really fast. As for those saying it going to make grouping so much better, I don't think so. The fact is people either like to group or they don't. I'm curious if they changed how grouping works, as right now you start getting penalties when group with higher players. I hope they did or I believe some planets people may not be able to play together due to the level penalties. Which kind of defeats the purpose of the system. Of course they may have mentioned this and I missed it.

 

As for those that don't like to group they will see if they can solo it, if they can't they won't do it. If they can the entire system become pointless once again. I'm curious if it will be as easy to solo the high level content as the one we saw on the starter world. If it's as easy as it was in the stream then again the system isn't going to make anything more challenge and become irrelevant. If it is to hard it going to turn off the solo people. I guess well find out Tuesday.

[TheSeer]

Best idea ever. If there is one thing i don't like about SWTOR is that the leveling experience breeds bad players and teaches players bad habits and does not punish them for it.

 

Thank you Bio-ware.

 

I don't think the new system will help this problem or really change anything. What punishment, there going to die just like they do now which has little penalty for doing so. Maybe a few will get stuck on boss fights in their own story, as they do now, due to not being able to out-level it but then they will either quite, get a friend, or reach max level for that planet. For example a player couldn't beat his story boss so he asked me to help and I did. Even if were both the same level it be much easy to beat the class story boss if there is two players (not including if this is a down level higher leveled character). My sister and me play in a duo and never have any problems, even when we are poorly gear and our companions aren't properly geared. Now companion won't be under-geared. Of course they could just PVP, which doesn't again make sure people learn their class.

 

Also they can now do solo flashpoints, that gives them a way to gear and level without learning there class. (Not saying I dislike solo flashpoints as I never can find a group as I often play in the very early morning.) Of course I suppose they could have made them more challenging, but I don't think that likely. If it work like the current solo flashpoints it won't be hard or need skill. So it shouldn't be hard for players to hit max level for the planet and then kill their story boss. The heroic we say didn't appear very challenging either, if this hold true to the rest of them it isn't going to teach anyone anything. The system might slow thing down and make thing a little more tedious.

 

Come Tuesday we get the joy of people buying level 60 characters, who may not known how to play these classes. I'm not against this, the fact is there will always be bad players. People either learn to play there class or don't. This is the reason I don't think this system will be as rewarding as other think. I don't think it will make old content engaging or challenging again, just a little more tedious. I don't think it going to make more people group or high level players come back to the planet. Beside teleporting into a heroic and then jumping to the next one. Hey I could be wrong.

[Jackosaur]

Don't bother Max. You are talking to people that refuse to see that there has been a paradigm shift at BW/EA which is screw over longtime subs to collect some unknown number of f2p players.

 

They're screwing over subs and trying to collect f2p players by releasing an expansion that is only available by subbing?

[RevenDark]

Ok so if i understand level sync, it will make the character im playing appropriate to the area I'm in. I didn't read all the threat or infact any of the other threats on the subject but the ones i have read all all about higher levels brought lower. Has anybody though about lower levels brought higher? Can i take my lvl 10 newly finished [inseart starting planet here] character and pop over to yarvin?

 

As for the idea of it I'm not sure yet, I like to be 1 or 2 levels over, this would seem that any extra effort then the minimim isn't going to be rewarded by having easy fights, sure i might get a few abilities to use but the fights will be seemingly more or less the same depending on the amount of npcs involved.

 

Now that i kind of think about it whats the point of stats/gear if they are just going to level sync apart from the cosmetic look

[Erasimus]

They're screwing over subs and trying to collect f2p players by releasing an expansion that is only available by subbing?

 

I agree with you, but everyone views changes differently. For someone that spends a large part of their time on lower level planets soloing, collecting, etc I can see how they'd be against changes that might make it more difficult. And of course, those on PvP planets that get a kick out of destroying groups of lower level players will really not like this change.

 

If I had to guess my guess would be they are trying to attract more subs and see this as a way of doing so. My personal belief is that they've probably determined that the current model where a relatively few subs spend tons of money on the cartel market is not sustainable going forward and they'd rather have more subs even if they spend less.

 

Only time will tell.

[Mikahrtwo]

Then they should tell us.

 

I'm not going to accept "but Bioware must have reasons" as justification for tearing the game apart and putting it back together with duct tape.

 

They must tell you?

 

Who are you exactly that they must run their decisions by you and have your blessing?

[Mikahrtwo]

After reading through almost the entire thread, I still fail to see what's wrong with level sync .

 

That guy will be knocked off from his speeder by lvl 15 once in a blue moon.

 

Therefor level sync must go!

[Mikahrtwo]

Isn't Killjoy fun or haven't you figured his game out yet? Max Kill Joy.

 

His game is, necro all threads, spam the forums, spam them as much as possible -> proof of something lol

[Quraswren]

They're screwing over subs and trying to collect f2p players by releasing an expansion that is only available by subbing?

 

You got that right.

Their banking on getting gamers they do not have and seem fine to screw over the current subbers just to see what happen with an expansion that is rather short on everything except story and given how short that will last. I don't see it working out well.

[Tsillah]

Don't bother Max. You are talking to people that refuse to see that there has been a paradigm shift at BW/EA which is screw over longtime subs to collect some unknown number of f2p players.

 

Yes, of course...that's why 4.0 is available to subs only...to attract some unknown number of f2p players.

 

Surely, even you can see that your logic here is completely flawed to put it kindly.

[Transcendent]

Now that i kind of think about it whats the point of stats/gear if they are just going to level sync apart from the cosmetic look

 

With the way it's being implemented (without any adjustable levels to make content go from easy <------> stupidly hard), absolutely none aside from a set bonus. Level sync is probably setting you at BioWare's expected power curve, because lets face it the combat team can't balance all the variables (they never could).

[nimmerstil]

And the numbers I'm working from (135 to 44 at the time) come from someone who said he was in favor of levelsync, and was careful enough that he listed out every name he counted to avoid double-counting the same person.

You're numbers are skewed. There are more then 200 posters on the forum, there must be thousands, tens of thousands, and of all those posters only 135 had enough of an issue with the level syncing to post about.

[Thepyrethatburns]

Philosophically, I agree with the statement if not the anger.

 

At this point, why have a level-based system? Just have all the enemies at the same relative strength. If somebody wants to check out Ilum as soon as they have a ship, then let them do so. Hell, that would allow more people to take part in the Gree event.

 

I just feel like, with all the stat adjustments in the past as well as the 4.0 changes made, that it would be an interesting experiment to drop all the stats, levels, and other numbers altogether.

[adaemeneten]

They must tell you?

 

Who are you exactly that they must run their decisions by you and have your blessing?

 

He would be a customer that helps pay the company's salaries and other operations costs.

[Princess_Chibi]

He would be a customer that helps pay the company's salaries and other operations costs.

 

+1

 

This exactly.

[Reno_Tarshil]

He would be a customer that helps pay the company's salaries and other operations costs.

 

So? The ToS says they don't have to explain or tell us anything. And that they can change the game at anytime.

 

Guess what? We agreed to it.

[JumperPenn]

Philosophically, I agree with the statement if not the anger.

 

At this point, why have a level-based system? Just have all the enemies at the same relative strength. If somebody wants to check out Ilum as soon as they have a ship, then let them do so. Hell, that would allow more people to take part in the Gree event.

 

I just feel like, with all the stat adjustments in the past as well as the 4.0 changes made, that it would be an interesting experiment to drop all the stats, levels, and other numbers altogether.

 

This might be the future of the game and if they continued that to the next 'logical' step then no more level increases that I would welcome but if they keep adding levels I think it is stupid. Essentially no more vertical progression but horizontal progression.

[Princess_Chibi]

So? The ToS says they don't have to explain or tell us anything. And that they can change the game at anytime.

 

Guess what? We agreed to it.

 

 

Pay attention to the news. Fifty page long terms of service, written in legalese with the specific intent to confuse or prevent the consumer from asserting common sense rights or hold companies accountable for their products and promises aren't holding up in court right now.

 

In other words, just because you agreed to something, especially under duress (agree to this or you can't play) may not mean jack in a lawsuit.

 

Courts are getting tired of companies laying all blame on the consumer while collecting their money hand over fist. It's all risk for the consumer (predatory business practices). And that's slowly but surely changing. Look at some recent California consumer lawsuits, especially the nestle bottling suit.

 

And yes, I have background in business law.

Edited October 18, 2015 by Princess_Chibi