Level synch = death of SWTOR

[Quraswren]

What do you want?

 

I already said I'm fine with an on/off switch if it makes sense.

 

I cannot know if it makes sense however, because I cannot know all the variables and I haven't seen the full scope of the expansion yet as it is.

 

Then don't bring up some imagined variables when there are none to bring up other then the possibility in the back of your head.

 

So really, it's all just hypothetical ******** until then and you're just interested in that to keep a thread going that already reached its futility status pages and pages ago.

So the discussion no longer matters, just continuing ad infinitum for your personal vendetta.

 

Hmmm, maybe I'll stop enabling you lot. I used feel for some of your plight but you guys are just being so annoying with this that I'm losing my sympathy for your side.

 

If you no longer have a vested interest in the subject, maybe thats best you do move on. You support it being optional but are fine with coming up with imagined variables for why it didn't. We'll note that should you not come back.

Edited October 3, 2015 by Quraswren

[Jimvinny]

How would you know if the engine is capable?

My guess is that current MaxLvl stuff like Outpost guards and Conquest Commanders will be reduced to the Sync Max Level (e.g. 32 on Alderaan) to adapt to the Level sync changes. With Level sync being optional in this guess, surely they'd need some way of these MaxLvl toons to adapt level depending on who attacks it?

 

Mission rewards can possibly be turned off but what about mission+loot rewards for others? Say a lowlevel hits the mob and the 65 finishes the mob off. How would this be handled? Can this be handled?

 

Snip.

 

This is probably one of the best explanations I've seen. Conquest commanders will most definitely be syncd to the Max planet level, and making the level sync optional would absolutely lead to problems with that system. Taking away rewards wouldn't prevent griefing, and making them a spawnable kind of defeats the purpose of the random spawning named champs. Any other brilliant idea probably represents a time and effort commitment they didn't want to make.

[ZavienUK]

Funny how he keeps failing to mention that.

 

Keep? Would you like to actually point out where exactly.This is the first time somebody has mentioned alliances to me. Please see my previous reply, immediately above.

 

I don't know why you suddenly think we are in completely disagreement. We all want the system, nobody is saying otherwise, just not forced on, all of the time. Would you like to reply explaining and justifying your opinion on making this optional because it's funny how you guys keep failing to address that*

 

*Joke, it's the first time I've asked you directly.

Edited October 3, 2015 by ZavienUK

[Kiesu]

So really, it's all just hypothetical ******** until then and you're just interested in that to keep a thread going that already reached its futility status pages and pages ago.

 

Indeed I've noticed the same. They're effectively increasing the page amount of this thread to the point that nobody is likely ever going to actually read it hence wasted effort and shot in own leg.

Same things have been discussed about as many times as this thread has pages. No wonder its just the same names here anymore, and occasional random who didnt catch the last conversation, because it was ten pages long and god knows who and where was the start and point and filler and snark and then random and what the actual poop start same thing over incase you missed the clusterfuk here we go again-

[kodrac]

So your now insulting the intelligence of everybody here, you don't think people have actually considered this.

 

If they have, I haven't seen it mentioned. It's always the same other nonsense. And given this community, it's doubtful.

 

Once again, for your benefit, the request is for this to be optional, not for it to not exist.

 

Yes i know that. It gets regurgitated over and over.

 

 

Why don't you actually explain to us how you feel about this system being optional, and justify your reasons. The previous consensus was that even amongst the people who were all for the system, there were few objections to it being optional.

 

I have done that already. Quarens (sp?) quoted it and replied to it earlier.

Edited October 3, 2015 by kodrac

[JustinGabriel]

I think it is basically probably a self serving statement to say that the majority of the community is against it based on the idea that a lot of *****y little whiners are posting 10-15 times in the against threads in response to being called *****y little whiners. Fact is that people that are happy or moderately don't care about a change as less likely to spend time arguing to fighting to prevent a change.

 

You list several points for game play that we don't know how will be handled yes, but your listing them in such a way as to make it seem like these are all things that will be adversely affected by the change rather then that BW has predicted these issues and has a resolution to them even though they have not gone into exacting details. You do realize that different areas of a planet have different names and maps in the server. So simply could be that the level sync could be more based on the planet AND map area you are in rather then just the planet.

 

But I don't consider the issue to be a problem and many people don't. The ones that do are the ones that currently exploit the running game mechanic that allows for them to return to a planet that have grossly out leveled and still run the missions and fight the world bosses and earn the rewards with no real threat or challenge to earn the reward. So really even if more responses are negative if its on the basis of that people are upset that they are losing their exploit why should BW or any of us that don't exploit it really give a flying ****.

 

Also if they had to combine all the threads into one, then why would you start yet another thread to express your negative feelings on the manner?

 

I wouldn't have called running old content an exploit. But that's because I'm too much of a dandylion and don't have your moxy sir. You just carry on the good fight!

[-Spc]

Not really. If the Devs say it's not feasible that's really it.

Then they should leave game as it is now, and don't even enable level sync.

[Quraswren]

This is probably one of the best explanations I've seen. Conquest commanders will most definitely be syncd to the Max planet level, and making the level sync optional would absolutely lead to problems with that system.

 

Not really. Just have it spawn to the highest level person that attacks it at any point. That way you cannot cheese it and or have lower people pull and then higher levels kill it. Hell, put a buff on the commanders that if you attack it after the pull you get that same kill affect the boss on Voss does. That would be kinda cool to watch someone try and grief you (or your group) only to die.

 

Taking away rewards wouldn't prevent griefing, and making them a spawnable kind of defeats the purpose of the random spawning named champs.

Nothing will prevent griefing if that is a gamers goal. Down leveling sure wont.

 

The mission + loot rewards can easily be handled by a debuff for being down leveled. You have the mission and debuff you get the upper reward. You cannot pick up the mission without the debuff and if you adjust the debuff at any time you lose the mission.

 

Any other brilliant idea probably represents a time and effort commitment they didn't want to make.

That I believe. We're not getting anything new for end game group content. Not a damn thing. Thats a pretty staple feature for any expansion in some sort. They did not put in the time and effort in many areas of end game. PVP included. The down leveling thing falls under that same commitment I'm sure.

Edited October 3, 2015 by Quraswren

[Elracor]

Then they should leave game as it is now, and don't even enable level sync.

 

And that's where I (and seemingly many others in this thread) disagree.

[kodrac]

I think it is basically probably a self serving statement t

 

I gotta remember that for the next tempest in a teacup forum war.

[Max_Killjoy]

Then they should leave game as it is now, and don't even enable level sync.

 

Exactly.

 

And even if the devs say it's not possible to make it optional... their track record gives me no reason to take them at their word.

[ZavienUK]

Methinks you guys are having this discussion with the wrong people. It's not like any of us can change this for you.

 

Some people want optional

Some people don't care

Some people don't want optional

 

After 200 pages of 5% reasonability and 95% nonesense and/or regurgitation, I can tell you the current status:

 

Some people want optional

Some people don't care

Some people don't want optional

 

And if you add 200 more pages guess what the status will be then....

 

The point has been made 100 times by 20 people...the outcome is exactly the same.

 

Actually it's more like this

 

A few people love the system and don't want it to be an optional toggle

Some people love the system, but don't mind an optional toggle.

Most people don't care and so naturally don't care either way if it's optional

Some people hate the forced nature of the system and want it as optional

A few people hate the system and don't want it whatsoever

 

So what was determined 100 pages ago is that whatever your feelings are on the system, the overwhelming majority were not against it being an optional toggle. Somewhere in these last few pages some people seem to think it's about not wanting the system at all (not helped by the thread title), which it was never about for the vast majority.

[Paktaii]

It´s a pity that no one of the BW team jumps in here and explains why they are implementing this. Or why it can/can´t be optional.

On the other hand, it only took them 9 sites at the cartel market changes thread to explain some things and listen to the community to do some changes with that.

Now we know where their focus is on: $$$

[Max_Killjoy]

Actually it's more like this

 

A few people love the system and don't want it to be an optional toggle

Some people love the system, but don't mind an optional toggle.

Most people don't care and so naturally don't care either way if it's optional

Some people hate the forced nature of the system and want it as optional

A few people hate the system and don't want it whatsoever

 

So what was determined 100 pages ago is that whatever your feelings are on the system, the overwhelming majority were not against it being an optional toggle. Somewhere in these last few pages some people seem to think it's about not wanting the system at all (not helped by the thread title), which it was never about for the vast majority.

 

Indeed.

 

As long as it's optional, I think it's great that the people who want to use it get to use it, and thereby get more enjoyment from the game.

 

It's only when it's mandatory that I'm absolutely and resolutely opposed to it.

[TravelersWay]

That you know of.

 

You don't know that.

 

And that goes both ways. You don't know that there are any other plans. It's easy enough to say they made it mandatory because of "Future reasons" but that doesn't mean that there are any actual future plans other than the reason it was implemented - as a half-assed method to offset the accelerated leveling pace that is also mandatory.

 

Before any one says, "well they must have had good reasons to make it mandatory", they also had reasons when implementing the CSM. They also had reasons for implementing the change in skills that affected the cost and repurchasing of skills in the game. Seems to me that despite their reasons, they don't always factor in the consequences of those reasons and hence have to back peddle rather quickly to resolve the problems that come about because of those reasons.

 

Now, unlike other things in this thread, there have been given no reasons why this should be mandatory that have not already been considered and better alternatives suggested. If there are, let's hear them and discuss.

Edited October 3, 2015 by TravelersWay

[Quraswren]

It´s a pity that no one of the BW team jumps in here and explains why they are implementing this. Or why it can/can´t be optional.

On the other hand, it only took them 9 sites at the cartel market changes thread to explain some things and listen to the community to do some changes with that.

Now we know where their focus is on: $$$

There focus has always been money of some sort but especially so since F2P started and the market.

 

But yes, It's sad there is no better explanation for this not being optional like 12X.

[-Spc]

And that's where I (and seemingly many others in this thread) disagree.

Then they should remove all levels, and this will fix it.

Biggest problem in this game are levels at the moment it seems.

That's what's driving these features like level sync ... etc..

Edited October 3, 2015 by -Spc

[Kiesu]

Then they should remove all levels, and this will fix it.

I would actually be completely fine with that.

[Elracor]

Then they should remove all levels, and this will fix it.

 

Many in here are complaining that this change will neuter/diminish/whatever the leveling experience, which surely means they have enjoyment out of the leveling experience as it currently is. Removing leveling entirely surely can't be a satisfactory solution for these players?

[Max_Killjoy]

Whether a game without classes and levels would have been better is a moot point. That's not the game they made, it's not the game people signed up for, and it's not the game we've been playing for years.

[Quraswren]

Many in here are complaining that this change will neuter/diminish/whatever the leveling experience, which surely means they have enjoyment out of the leveling experience as it currently is. Removing leveling entirely surely can't be a satisfactory solution for these players?

 

Probably not but getting to max level and enjoying that process only to have that removed (down scaled) every time you go to an old planet isn't satisfactory all the time either for players.

Edited October 3, 2015 by Quraswren

[Tsillah]

This is something we'll never know, only Bioware does. When the game was doing badly 2 years ago I don't remember there being any more upset posts about it than there are now.

Long story short, most people that are upset or don't like something won't bother to post about it. And the same goes for people that do like something.

Having said that, this is a change with a lot of impact. The game will go from being a traditional levelling game to more of a GW type of game. That on itself isn't the issue, it's the fact that it never was that type of game in the first place and it's mandatory.

 

I did not like GW2 because of the level synching but I knew beforehand that it would be that way. Swtor changed one of its core gameplay aspects 4 years in, that's like changing a product fundamentally. I'm personally not ok with it. If Swtor had been a level sync game from the get go, I would have been long gone.

 

Guess you'll be leaving then.

[-Spc]

Many in here are complaining that this change will neuter/diminish/whatever the leveling experience, which surely means they have enjoyment out of the leveling experience as it currently is. Removing leveling entirely surely can't be a satisfactory solution for these players?

Levels are the biggest problems, i think bioware wants level sync because at level 65 people will be too powerful for let's say an example: Nightmare pilgrim

That's why they want to "remove" powerful level 65 by reducing levels.

In that conclusion it's best to remove levels so everyone is equal and every mission in game is equally hard as there are no levels.

it's the same with level sync, everything is the same (same level) so it's almost like there is are no levels anymore.

So why would i want Nightmare Level 65 gear on hoth ?

 

If they keep levels and keep level sync then everything below level 65 is useless because stuff that drops in level 65 can only be used in level 65 planets, on other planets it doesn't matter if you use level 55 green gear or level 65 nightmare gear, you will do the same dps - so why would someone do ops if the gear can only be "used" on level 65 "planets" - there's no reward in ops anymore, just titles and speeders, which are only design, nothing else.

Edited October 3, 2015 by -Spc

[Kilikaa]

The majority of players on Harb and Shadowlands are against this. 2 of most populated servers. Again, Bioware states they listen to the community. So if it's forums they listen to, then they are delusional. If it's chat, still delusional because no matter what front you see it as, the majority of whatever front are in distaste of this level sync. Spin it how you want, it ultimately means bioware isn't listening lol.

 

I have to call BS on this right here! The majority of Shadowlands is against level synch? Who the hell are you talking to? I know quite a few people who are in favor of it. I have seen peple in chat say they are in favor of it. I am not, however going to claim that most are favor or against it.

 

You have absolutely no clue how many people are for or against level synch. Quit pretending you do.

[Raansu]

This is something we'll never know, only Bioware does. When the game was doing badly 2 years ago I don't remember there being any more upset posts about it than there are now.

Long story short, most people that are upset or don't like something won't bother to post about it. And the same goes for people that do like something.

Having said that, this is a change with a lot of impact. The game will go from being a traditional levelling game to more of a GW type of game. That on itself isn't the issue, it's the fact that it never was that type of game in the first place and it's mandatory.

 

I did not like GW2 because of the level synching but I knew beforehand that it would be that way. Swtor changed one of its core gameplay aspects 4 years in, that's like changing a product fundamentally. I'm personally not ok with it. If Swtor had been a level sync game from the get go, I would have been long gone.

 

You act like MMO's never evolve. WoW is literally nothing like it was at launch. Things change, it is what it is.