Level synch = death of SWTOR

[Quraswren]

"This will never happen raa raa raa!"

I shall wait till expansion to see the actual difference and test it myself, rather than theorize doom and gloom over it. I am happy about the potential, you are not. I get it. Preaching impossibru is kinda hilarious though.

 

All you have to do is pull from experience. IF you don't have any thats fine but reality says different from your imagined potential in every case ever created to hinder or stop ganking other than making sure there is a start zone no one can get to but newly created toon but even then, once they hit open world, ganking falls back into place.

 

You're a bit delusional with your hopes on this one.

[Kiesu]

So the lowbie noob is three-shot instead of one-shot? Like Quraswren said above, leveling syncing isn't really going to make all that much difference. However, like I have said twice, and now will say thrice, there are more effective ways of combating those issues without using a forced level scaling system.

You do realize, with lvsync, they also cannot pass trough the guard droids anymore to go camp in lowbi camps?

Its common to see these freebiekillers just stealth trough the droids and run off their aggro radius to camp lowbies on their camp. Getting turreted down by those droids synced however, they'll faceplant on the entrance like any lowbie I'd imagine. As cried by many, aggro radius!

Edited October 2, 2015 by Kiesu

[Kiesu]

All you have to do is pull from experience. IF you don't have any thats fine but reality says different from your imagined potential in every case ever created to hinder or stop ganking other than making sure there is a start zone no one can get to but newly created toon but even then, once they hit open world, ganking falls back into place.

 

You're a bit delusional with your hopes on this one.

 

Do tell how the current system is better in this case then, since the sync is so unrealistic!

[TravelersWay]

You do realize, with lvsync, they also cannot pass trough the guard droids anymore to go camp in lowbi camps?

Its common to see these freebiekillers just stealth trough the droids and run off their aggro radius to camp lowbies on their camp. Getting turreted down by those droids synced however, they'll faceplant on the entrance like any lowbie I'd imagine. As cried by many, aggro radius!

 

And the same effect can be achieved without using level sync. Just like forcing groups to take down a World Boss can be done without level sync.

[Kiesu]

And the same effect can be achieved without using level sync. Just like forcing groups to take down a World Boss can be done without level sync.

Ummmm no? What effect? You downscale, you take more damage, your aggro radius is bigger, how does that happen without sync? It doesnt. You get the scaling of your lv wherever you go.

"Forcing groups to take down WB"? I dont even know what you are talking about anymore. Yes WB can be taken down without sync or without 60, but nobody does because everyone cheeses it with a 60!

[Quraswren]

Do tell how the current system is better in this case then, since the sync is so unrealistic!

 

Neither system will change things in any conceivable manner to make a difference. A forced level down scaling of every single player i the game is a worthless attempt if the goal was to somehow prevent or hinder ganking as you brought up.

 

Ganking is something you simply cannot prevent and if a levl 65 goes after a lowbie. It's over just about as fast.

 

Some ganker isn't going to storm into a way point to get them them. They'll wait at a "watering hole" and it will be over before they they knew what hit them. Just like if it was a true 65 on a level 20.

 

You've got some pipe dream on this hindering gankers to any noticeable effect.

[Chelan]

However, there are other methods to fight the problems you speak of without forcing a system on the entire playerbase that can greatly affect a player's enjoyment of the content - as much, if not more, than the problems that you mention.

 

They might enjoy it? We don't know. People are pretty much imagining how bad it's going to be. Overreacting. The majority of the players haven't actually experienced the system. If the system was live then the argument might have more merit. And even then and if BW eventually agrees, such a change would probably not come soon. DOOOOM!

 

And in any case, MMOs are all about change. Embrace the change! If MMOs don't change, they become stagnant. Aaand that's boring.

[TravelersWay]

Ummmm no? What effect? You downscale, you take more damage, your aggro radius is bigger, how does that happen without sync? It doesnt. You get the scaling of your lv wherever you go.

"Forcing groups to take down WB"? I dont even know what you are talking about anymore. Yes WB can be taken down without sync or without 60, but nobody does because everyone cheeses it with a 60!

 

 

Uhmmm yes. It doesn't even take that much imagination to see how campers can be killed at the door of the enemy camp - even stealthed - without needing level scaling. Let me repeat more slowly this time - you don't need level sync to prevent people from soloing World Bosses. We already have examples of the means to prevent/control the issues you point out without the need to use level syncing as an ineffective means to do it.

 

Once again with feeling - you do not need level syncing to minimize or even prevent ganking, and you do not need level syncing to prevent people from soloing World Bosses. There are better ways to achieve both.

 

They might enjoy it? We don't know. People are pretty much imagining how bad it's going to be. Overreacting. The majority of the players haven't actually experienced the system. If the system was live then the argument might have more merit. And even then and if BW eventually agrees, such a change would probably not come soon. DOOOOM!

The system may not be on the "live" servers, but it most certainly is live and has been experienced. However, this is also a good jumping off point for talking about the value of having a true open beta period for testing fundamental changes to game mechanics instead of the BioWare method of open beta testing - aka Early Access.

 

And in any case, MMOs are all about change. Embrace the change! If MMOs don't change, they become stagnant. Aaand that's boring.

 

Yes, MMOs are always in a state of flux, but there are more than quite a few that some might consider "stagnant" but are far from boring. "Change just for the sake of change is not necessarily a good thing."

Edited October 2, 2015 by TravelersWay

[EllieAnne]

Someone explain this apparent contradiction:

 

With good gear, a high level player can still gank heroics (as Eric showed) even with the level sync.

Level sync will solve the problem of high levels ganking low levels in OWPvP.

[Kiesu]

Neither system will change things in any conceivable manner to make a difference. A forced level down scaling of every single player i the game is a worthless attempt if the goal was to somehow prevent or hinder ganking as you brought up.

Heh. Now its you who is making it sound more grim than it is. "Ganking" is not not the same thing as lowbiefarming. Ganking is when you take 10 people raid on Thorn raghoul tunnel enemy camp and kill everything in sight, in a group. Happens, its pvp, I've done that too.

HOWEVER. lv 60 vs lv 20. No chanse even with a group against that one guy. Gotta drive your own 60 over if you want to continue. Downscaled 60 to 20, vs 5 lv 20? Now we're talking pvp, not farming.

[TravelersWay]

Heh. Now its you who is making it sound more grim than it is. "Ganking" is not not the same thing as lowbiefarming. Ganking is when you take 10 people raid on Thorn raghoul tunnel enemy camp and kill everything in sight, in a group. Happens, its pvp, I've done that too.

HOWEVER. lv 60 vs lv 20. No chanse even with a group against that one guy. Gotta drive your own 60 over if you want to continue. Downscaled 60 to 20, vs 5 lv 20? Now we're talking pvp, not farming.

 

Ganking

It is a word commonly used in online video games, usually used in an MMORPG. Ganking is the process in which a group of charecters gang up on one or more players that do not have a chance to defend themselves, Or when one high level player does the same action to a player way below his or her own level.

Edited October 2, 2015 by TravelersWay

[Chelan]

Yes, MMOs are always in a state of flux, but there are more than quite a few that some might consider "stagnant" but are far from boring. "Change just for the sake of change is not necessarily a good thing."

 

Though the impression so far to this particular change seems to be more positive than not. There's probably only a handful of folks not on board or at least are waiting until the system is actually live to make judgement.

Edited October 2, 2015 by Chelan

[Kiesu]

Uhmmm yes. It doesn't even take that much imagination to see how campers can be killed at the door of the enemy camp - even stealthed - without needing level scaling. Let me repeat more slowly this time - you don't need level sync to prevent people from soloing World Bosses. We already have examples of the means to prevent/control the issues you point out without the need to use level syncing as an ineffective means to do it.

 

Once again with feeling - you do not need level syncing to minimize or even prevent ganking, and you do not need level syncing to prevent people from soloing World Bosses. There are better ways to achieve both.

Yes, we have examples and ideas for a lot of stuff. Are they announced to come in game? no. When they do, we'll talk again. But with the current options, that is not even an option atm, syncsolving this works just fine.

Again, I am not against other means of solving these, but right now those ways are not coming in the game, and if they do and we get to choose, sure, I might even change my mind about sync. Right now though, very happy about this.

[Quraswren]

Ganking

It is a word commonly used in online video games, usually used in an MMORPG. Ganking is the process in which a group of charecters gang up on one or more players that do not have a chance to defend themselves, Or when one high level player does the same action to a player way below his or her own level.

 

At least someone around here has a steady head on the subject.

 

This isn't hindering ganking in any noticeable way.

 

down scaling everyone isn't some amazing feature to get gamers to go back and do old content that is from launch because you attached some basic comms to it.

 

Optional is the way to go. Not forced.

[Kiesu]

I'm encyclopedia

I stand corrected. Doesnt change my point though.

[Kiesu]

Optional is the way to go. Not forced.

For the twentieth time, for you upset sweeties:

I am not against optional. But IF I HAD TO CHOOSE WITHOUT IT BEING OPTIONAL, yespls sync. Just my two cents.

Lets agree to disagree.

[Jackosaur]

So much whine...

[Eanelinea]

You all know that if they made this optional it would mean you would get ZERO rewards right? The entire point is to keep level 65's from one shotting and farming old content for the easy crystals/gear box that rewards items for your level. Heaven forbid you have to put a little time in to get rewards over "loloneshot" low level mobs. There is literally nothing to complain about here.

 

I didn't say give us the rewards as a lvl 65 roflstomping npcs. If I want to get the rewards, I'll do the heroics and happily be downscaled. I DON'T MIND BEING DOWNSCALED FOR THE HEROIC TERMINAL MISSIONS!

 

What I DO have an issue with is the SECOND I step foot on Nar Shaddaa or Coruscant or Voss or any planet being downscaled to the planet's original level (whatever that may be). Whether I'm there to /dance with guildies or just drive around on my speeder, I don't want to be gimped level wise just for making a pit stop.

[Max_Killjoy]

Since the thread this was in got dumped into off-topic...

 

First, which is it? Sometimes it's "the only thing you'll lose is roflstomp" and other times it's "downscaled characters will still roflstomp with ease". I'm beginning to suspect that which claim is made depends on what's convenient to the person making it, and not based on the objective facts.

 

Second, that some of you keep saying "You're just pissed about losing roflstomp" just demonstrates that you have not, in fact, actually bothered to take a moment and understand the statements of those who are opposed to this. Look more carefully -- note how many of the concerns are based not on "I won't be able to roflstomp", but rather on "now I'll have to take the time to roflstomp, because the mobs in those areas will actually agro now".

 

Somehow, people who are really really in favor of this, or just looking for the latest excuse to insult and belittle their fellow players, seem to keep mistaking "I'd prefer to not have to slog" for "I hate any form of challenge".

[FerkWork]

So much whine...

 

Needs some cheese with it.

[Chelan]

Cheese fun fact:

 

People of Greece are the largest consumers of cheese worldwide. An average person from Greece consumes around 27.3 kg of cheese every year, about ¾ of which is feta cheese.

 

(Ed. Note: I don't know if that's actually true.)

[TravelersWay]

Yes, we have examples and ideas for a lot of stuff. Are they announced to come in game? no. When they do, we'll talk again. But with the current options, that is not even an option atm, syncsolving this works just fine.

Again, I am not against other means of solving these, but right now those ways are not coming in the game, and if they do and we get to choose, sure, I might even change my mind about sync. Right now though, very happy about this.

 

Absolutely agreed. Hence why discussions like these are necessary. I think level scaling is beneficial to the game for many reasons. However, from my PoV, those benefits are only fully realized when the scaling is an optional system and not a forced one. And we shouldn't have to rely on a forced system to try to mitigate issues like the ones you mention, even if they are not the real reason the system was implemented in the first place.

 

Quite frankly, we shouldn't even be having this discussion because those problems should have been solved long ago with those other methods of preventing 1v1 ganking and WB soloing. However, lack of those systems at this point still do not override the benefits from making scaling an optional system.

[Quraswren]

For the twentieth time, for you upset sweeties:

I am not against optional. But IF I HAD TO CHOOSE WITHOUT IT BEING OPTIONAL, yespls sync. Just my two cents.

Lets agree to disagree.

 

For the 100th time. It's not currently optional so its something I want support. I don't need to play the game to know that. I don't nee to experince my toon being down scaled to know thats not something I would ever enjoy, as a constant "always on" feature.

 

As an optimal feature. Love it. Let gamers do what they have loved for years or take the new option.

 

If I had to choose just one. I'm not pushing for down leveling every single gamer in SWTOR to bring back 4 year old content that is barely worth doing for the comms and isn't anymore going to send max level gamers to those planets than thinking this will somehow hinder gankers from doing what they love.

 

Agree to disagree? Oh we disagree alright.

[Frybert]

I do not like this decision. I do, however, like cheese. So please pass some this way.

[SelinaH]

No I don't honestly think that. That is just your strawman because you have no real argument.

 

Not even everyone in the threads are against it and they still aren't even close to as hot as real hot issues were in the past. You have not one shred of support for any claim of any number.

I guess it's a good thing no one's been quoting actual numbers, then, or stating that everyone is against non-optional scaling. The quote you originally replied to was this:

Lots of people DON'T WANT THIS

and you lambasted the poster for "claim[ing] any quantity of the player base for or against this."

I don't care either way, but it is absolutely ridiculous for anyone to claim any quantity of the player base for or against this. Any claims like that are absolute conjecture.

The claim was not "The majority of players are against this," or "Most forum posters are against this," or even "More players are against this than for it."

 

With the number of posts from presumably unique accounts advocating against the mandatory change, I certainly don't find it unreasonable or ridiculous to believe that there are a good number of people unhappy with what's coming down the pipe.

Forums don't even represent the majority of the player base. They are usually a small minority, with most never or rarely posting.

 

So the idea that any of these threads that aren't even big in history of complaining on SWTOR, actually representing anything is a farce.

Obviously the forums will never represent a majority of players on any given subject. Again, that's not what was posted or what you were replying to.

And then the obvious, someone disagrees with you so they must be a troll response. Sorry nope, not here for a reaction, just don't like false claims some are making and I think a little truth doesn't hurt.

 

Not pro or against, but disgusted by some of the behavior actually on both sides of the topic.

Sorry, I'm not seeing where I called anyone a troll in any of the (now merged) threads. I can only assume that you skimmed this:

Unless you honestly think that all the complaints are from one person with a bunch of alt subscriber accounts, or that everyone who supposedly disagrees with the idea is only posting objections for the sake of trolling.

then saw the word "trolling" and, without reading further, saw red. It may become clearer upon re-reading, but if it doesn't, let me state for the record: I did not, in intent or fact, call you or anyone else here a troll.

Edited October 2, 2015 by SelinaH