Level synch = death of SWTOR

[Teladis]

A toggle might not work for a few reasons.

 

1) PVP as listed.

 

2) The game Engine itself. From what I was reading it is pretty limited. It could have some thing to do with quest rewards, Getting max level reward for 1 shotting mobs is not cool. So it could be the scaling thing was a all or nothing system.

 

3) World Bosses

 

4) Future, They might have more plans set up for it.

 

 

 

So no it does not have to be optional, I see no reason why it should be. If you can still kill things with ease, (mind you will be a tad slower.) I think you will be fine with it not being optional.

[-Spc]

But no, its not something you _have_ to do. I just keeps you from soloing stuff that wasnt intended for soloing.

Then they should raise the level of those things to level 65 ? so you can't solo it ?

Dread Seed stuff is also leveled up and doesn't give us forced low levels.

Edited October 1, 2015 by -Spc

[kodrac]

stuff that wasnt intended for soloing.

 

That's the crux of the issue. It was never intended to one shot H4s or get an achievement from using one AoE. No more easy mode -- commence crying.

[ZavienUK]

My guess a toggle might not be as easy as it sounds, and it would still F with open world PvP.

 

I actually don't see from a programming perspective that it would be difficult. As it currently stands a character is down levelled, presumably when they zone into a planet. Adding a line into that procedure to first check whether a variable is set to 0 or 1 and only run the procedure if set to a particular value is not complicated. The toggle only needs to set this variable.

 

That effect on open world PVP is possibly the only argument against a toggle I have seen, but in reality I suspect a down levelled character with all abilities is still going to win against a natural level character so in the real world, I suspect a gank is still a gank, and not worth forcing this system on everybody for (especially those on PvE servers).

[Max_Killjoy]

That's the crux of the issue. It was never intended to one shot H4s or get an achievement from using one AoE. No more easy mode -- commence crying.

 

 

If they didn't "intend" for much of that content to be soloed, why did they put in things like the GSI droid, or the mechanism that makes it almost impossible for "grayed out" mobs to hit you in combat?

 

Not that "intent" is anything more than a crutch argument.

[Falensawino]

I really don't see what the problem is... So people are crying because they can't oneshot mobs anymore if they visit older planets? I mean, you're still 2 levels above it.

 

Think about it now, it is RARE to see some high level doing quests on a lower planet, because there is NO point in doing so. Now we can do heroic missions on any planet that actually give usable rewards.

 

If you don't like it, just avoid lower level planets just like you do now. It's simple.

You're not considering how it's going to affect our old dailies for credits.

 

Harder mobs and gear that doesn't overpower you is going to increase the time it takes to complete dailies.

credit/hour (credit per hour) reduction

 

source of ingame credits will take a hit

[-Spc]

That's the crux of the issue. It was never intended to one shot H4s or get an achievement from using one AoE. No more easy mode -- commence crying.

No crying, i will just not do that stuff ever, i will only do level 65 stuff because it's the only thing i can use my gear with.

All other content is just not worth doing.

[ZavienUK]

Most, if not all, of the posters I've seen commenting against this particular implementation of level sync have been in favor of its being included as an option.

 

Many of those pleased with this implementation of level sync, however, seem to believe it should not be optional, because then (paraphrase follows) "No one would use it."

 

I am not sure that is actually the case, my anecdotal evidence suggests most of the people FOR the system wouldn't mind a toggle, but in any case, if you were right, and option that nobody (or few) uses (again unlikely) is better than no option at all. Think the 12x remover. I have no idea how many people actually turn off 12x, but I'm glad the option is there.

 

And also, if it was a toggle, I would be FOR the system too, and would use it. I just don't want to be forced to use it all the time.

 

Edit: I misread your post as 'nobody would use the option to NOT be downlevelled, where you meant nobody would use the option TO be downlevelled. I've no idea if that is actually true, but if it was , as another poster pointed out, it is rather telling isn't it. Implement this as the system it should be, a buddy system for those who want to downlevel and play with lower levels.

Edited October 1, 2015 by ZavienUK

[leehambly]

No crying, i will just not do that stuff ever, i will only do level 65 stuff because it's the only thing i can use my gear with.

All other content is just not worth doing.

 

How do you know this? Maybe the chapters will involve these planets? You really aren't thinking about the reasons why they are doing this! We already know that part of the 4.0 thread will involve re-engaging with and gaining influence over lost companions, where exactly do you think they are?

Edited October 1, 2015 by leehambly

[Quraswren]

Not optional? Well that sucks.

 

Guess if someone wants help I get to tell them, not a chance in hell since BW down graded my battle master back to a padawan.

 

Why should it have replayability? I've done it on plenty of characters, I just want to one shot things. I'm that powerful Sith Lord. Or did I progress to 60 to have them bother me again?

 

You spent all that time leveling to 60 so BW could laugh at you as they turned you back into a level 10 because you wanted to go back to your starter planet for a bit of fun.

 

I can only hope this bites BW in a major negative way. I don't level up so I can act like a lower level again no matter what downscaled skills I get to keep.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Quraswren

[kodrac]

All other content is just not worth doing.

 

Was older content ever worth doing? Seriously, once it's greyed out it's not challenging or rewarding.

[Max_Killjoy]

No crying, i will just not do that stuff ever, i will only do level 65 stuff because it's the only thing i can use my gear with.

All other content is just not worth doing.

 

"Y U cry? U no even lift?" Is the only "argument" they have that "supports" this. There's no reason to make this mandatory and it provides no benefit to much of the playerbase, so all they have left is to try to insult and belittle anyone who says they're against it.

[Max_Killjoy]

Was older content ever worth doing? Seriously, once it's greyed out it's not challenging or rewarding.

 

Maybe it's not worth doing for you.

 

Maybe other people get other things out of the game. Why are you so determined to decide what's worth doing for other players?

 

For me, going back and doing content anywhere I'm downscaled / levelsynced will be FAR LESS worth it. If I'm going back to those places now, it's not for the "challenge" or the "reward". If I want "challenge" or "reward", I go do something that has those things already, right now.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Max_Killjoy

[Kiesu]

Then they should raise the level of those things to level 65 ? so you can't solo it ?

Dread Seed stuff is also leveled up and doesn't give us forced low levels.

First of all, "Intended" is one of the top-10 bull**** arguments in MMO discussions.

 

Second, if they didn't "intend" for content to be soloed, why did they put in things like the GSI droid, or the mechanism that makes it almost impossible for "grayed out" mobs to hit you in combat?

Good example are Worldbosses on planets. But, I guess you never got a raid for those on appropriate level because you could just "solo them later" huh? That's what the WBs have been for the past years, a punching back for max-lvs. Way back when we actually made 16m raids full of lowbies to do planet WBs. Those were fun.

Nowdays they're just all dead all the time since 60s like "soloing" them before you get a raid together.

[Lecaja]

The gaming press followed this game intensely before it came out and for a year or so after its release and didn't really stop until it became clear that ftp wasn't going to kill it. Through that entire time the talk was all doom and gloom even from the game press and the game is still around. A month from now I might be gone, you reading this might be gone but the game is still going to be around. If EA hasn't killed it like they have so many other franchises and games I don't see them doing so as long as it's making money and plenty of people out there seem to have very deep pockets so it's going forward with or without us.

[Gindorf]

And they'd still have an advantage which makes the need for a toggle unnecessary. Works both ways.

 

Ok, thats were we truly differ then.

 

The purpose of a level system is to (mechanically) demonstrate the power you have gained over the course of time spent playing. By forcing players to play at lower levels than they have earned, it makes the point of levels mute. While not losing the abilities you have gain, you still lose the power.

 

Using DK as an example given level 18 is the scale to level based on the stream:

 

A player who is level 18 might have helped expand the Empire's grasp on Taris but,

A player who has defeated Revan and thus gained "the most powerful and advanced gear available" should be demonstrably different. - The abilities do not reflect the fact that you killed "the most dangerous threat to the Empire", they reflect that you have learned much (since you helped on Taris)

 

Thats the "immersive" argument.

 

The "real world" argument that I would make is this: I have spent 100s of hours working on improving my character. (In rotation/gear/etc) and it is simply not fair that I must be "reset" to the equivalent of 5 or 6 hours. That (to me) seems to be the major issue with a forced sync.

 

Me personally? I would use the sync if I happened to be on X planet and wanted to help someone lfg for a heroic. However, if I am there for another reason, I should be able to choose if my countless hours (RL time) spent should count for something or not.

[-Spc]

Was older content ever worth doing? Seriously, once it's greyed out it's not challenging or rewarding.

It was worth doing for story and achievements, let's say thana vesh storyline was awesome, even at level 60.

I would do it every day if i could repeat it because Thana is so awesome and funny, even though i get very low level gear from it i love the story and the character.

Edited October 1, 2015 by -Spc

[kodrac]

Maybe it's not worth doing for you.

 

Maybe other people get other things out of the game. Why are you so determined to decide what's worth doing for other players?

 

For me, going back and doing content anywhere I'm downscaled / levelsynced will be FAR LESS worth it. If I'm going back to those places now, it's not for the "challenge" or the "reward". If I want "challenge" or "reward", I go do something that has those things already, right now.

 

I'm not determined to to decide anyone's playstyle. I am trying to understand it though. Hence why I asked was it ever worth doing anyway.

[SelinaH]

When you get lvl synched what happens? Your stats get reduced to the highest lvl that still gains experience(aka 6 lvls above content).

You get de-leveled regardless of whether or not you've taken any missions; simply setting foot on a lower-level planet scales you (confirmed during the stream by Eric).

 

Given that this is the case, what specific content are we scaling to?

[JLazarillo]

Current Situation: People wanting the system=Happy, People not wanting the system=Unhappy

 

If I had to venture a guess, it's like the people who don't want there to be "Solo Mode" Operations for the people who want the story...because supposedly if people can do "solo mode", they won't want to team up to do it.

 

Personally, I think it's probably not quite right though since it makes the assumption that everyone who would have soloed it won't just ignore the content if forced to team.

[DarthDymond]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

That doesn't really apply when the topic of a discussion / argument / debate is whether some change to a piece of popular entertainment is a 'good' change or not - Argumentum ad Populum comes into play when there is an objective truth being debated.

 

If you're talking about Global Warming, then you're talking about something that objectively either is or is not happening, in that situation, the issue of how widespread the belief or disbelief in it is doesn't prove anything about that objective truth.

 

But with entertainment media, there is no truly objective measure of whether a change is good or bad - instead the closest we get to an objective measure... is how popular it is.

[ZavienUK]

Might someone point me to where they have answered the following issue .

 

When doing seeker mission and macro binocular , both of which are post LvL 52 missions, you go back to lower level planets. ( one of the many reasons I go back to lower level planets on higher level characters)

 

However the mobs near the dread seeds or in the seeker drop zones are often higher level ie 50-55.

 

Trying not to spoiler You are also attached by higher level mobs as you do the quest , even on these low planets as it is assumed you are level 52 up .

 

Have they said how this will be handled.

 

Nope they also didn't address the similar situation of Bonus areas that have higher level mobs than the normal planet range.

 

I actually like that there are areas with different level mobs, that it's no all the same level, it introduces a bit of depth, I like that there are areas of the planets you dare not go at the planets level, but return to later when you are higher level (aka more powerful). I can only assume they are handling this by changing the level of the mobs to the same as the rest of the planet. What a great way for me NOT to feel more powerful as I level and how boring.

[kodrac]

It was worth doing for story and achievements, let's say thana vesh storyline was awesome, even at level 60.

I would do it every day if i could repeat it because Thana is so awesome and funny, even though i get very low level gear from it i love the story and the character.

 

I'd go back and kill the Hutts on Quesh for the same reason. But I'd still want a challenge otherwise I'd be bored by it.

[Max_Killjoy]

Yeah... not sure why people think it's "awesome" that their Jedi Knight who gained enough power and skill and savvy to almost destroy the Sith Emperor in his own lair... will suddenly be reduced back to nothing more than a raw apprentice if they set foot on Tython again.

[Anaesha]

You get de-leveled regardless of whether or not you've taken any missions; simply setting foot on a lower-level planet scales you (confirmed during the stream by Eric).

 

Given that this is the case, what specific content are we scaling to?

 

Question if you're not on the planet for a mission or to do the heroics what are you doing on the Planet? I don't go to Taris, Tatooine, or Alderaan after I complete them unless I have a reason to do so.