Max_Killjoy Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 ...or because they have plans for the future of which none of us have any knowledge or foresight. Frankly, my money's on the latter. I too can summon spirits from the vasty deep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kodrac Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 I meant what I said. As long as they're not actively depriving others of enjoyment of the game, I don't care. It's a game, it's about having fun. I'm sure griefers and exploiters have fun griefing and exploiting too. Still don't care? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elracor Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) Eh? Your just being obtuse. People like level sync because it makes content relevant. If commanders were intended as high level content, nobody is going to have a problem turning off level sync to do that content. That obviously depends on how easy it is to turn the sync on and off and still keep it exploit free. It also still doesn't really handle the PvP aspect of it as I see it. Your still being being obtuse. We've already accepted there would be compromise in making it optional. Not wanting level sync has never been about being able to kill some commanders, I never saw that from anybody as a reason for not wanting level sync. I suggest a compromise solution which would allow the level sync to be optional, and you throw it back as 'well that wouldn't be optional then would it'. Fine let me kill the commanders then while level sync is turned off, I won't offer that compromise. Oh but then that would be open to abuse so we can't do that either. So in other words I can't win with you whatever I say. At this point I'm beyond debating each point with you. I get it, you want this system. I don't. We disagree. Can we just leave it at that. The Commanders are only an example. Insert whatever other highlvl mobs (GSI) or future events and the problem grows. This turning lvl sync on and off still comes down to how easy it can be done without being exploitable. Oh my god. I said I wouldn't just automatically believe what they said if they didn't explain it. Do you take everything you are told at face value? Your nieve if you do. Oh I get it now, your actually just trolling me now. Well played. You can't actually believe what you typed. What are earth are you on about. At no point have I suggested or in any way believe the developers are doing this maliciously, that is an utterly absurd suggestion. This was only ever about providing feedback to say is there way this could be made optional Your in favour of this system, I'm not. We disagree. I really really really don't want to be endlessly debating this issue. Lets just agree we disagree and leave it at that. What else would it be then? If the Devs don't give you Optional sync and you won't believe they don't do it for a good reason without explaining so, what other alternative is there but that they're not giving you this feature and have no good reason for not giving you said feature. Edited October 3, 2015 by MFollin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SelinaH Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 The livestream showed a downsync to 18 on DK. Which is either 2 or 3 higher than the highest mission on planet (the heroic he jumped to is a H4 @ L15 right now.) Dromund Kaas/Tython are shown on the galaxy map as levels 10-16, so -- assuming level bands are the same as on Live -- Eric was at +2 for the Livestream. However, according to the blog, characters on Alderaan will be scaled to 32 -- +0 to planetary range limit (28-32, not counting Bonus Series). It is possible they'll be tweaking the level ranges, or setting different de-level criteria for different planets. It'd be nice to get some more details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 I'm sure griefers and exploiters have fun griefing and exploiting too. Still don't care? As long as they're not actively depriving others of enjoyment of the game... that would certainly seem to put griefing outside the box of "just have fun", I think. As for exploiters... I have a tremendous amount of trouble working up any outrage over 90% of the "exploits" that seem to draw so much ire. Most of the outrage seems to be more about something else, other than whatever damage the exploiters could possible do to other people's enjoyment of the game in most cases. For the most part, I can't figure out what that something else is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sentientomega Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) Dromund Kaas/Tython are shown on the galaxy map as levels 10-16, so -- assuming level bands are the same as on Live -- Eric was at +2 for the Livestream. However, according to the blog, characters on Alderaan will be scaled to 32 -- +0 to planetary range limit (28-32, not counting Bonus Series). This is awful, I don't see how I can possibly solo ANYTHING at level, let alone H2+s with the down-scaling. It should be 3-6 levels above, why not give us that small edge? Edited October 3, 2015 by sentientomega Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) Dromund Kaas/Tython are shown on the galaxy map as levels 10-16, so -- assuming level bands are the same as on Live -- Eric was at +2 for the Livestream. However, according to the blog, characters on Alderaan will be scaled to 32 -- +0 to planetary range limit (28-32, not counting Bonus Series). It is possible they'll be tweaking the level ranges, or setting different de-level criteria for different planets. It'd be nice to get some more details. I think its very possible there still fiddling around with it. Pretty sure they said highest level for the planet a number of times. If he was higher, it was a fluke I'd wager. UI fluke maybe? Actual scaling fluke - maybe. Edited October 3, 2015 by Quraswren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elracor Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) Dromund Kaas/Tython are shown on the galaxy map as levels 10-16, so -- assuming level bands are the same as on Live -- Eric was at +2 for the Livestream. However, according to the blog, characters on Alderaan will be scaled to 32 -- +0 to planetary range limit (28-32, not counting Bonus Series). It is possible they'll be tweaking the level ranges, or setting different de-level criteria for different planets. It'd be nice to get some more details. Dromund Kaas has lvl 18 content AFAIK, if nothing else then the world boss. That could be tweaked of course. Edited October 3, 2015 by MFollin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DalrisThane Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) Oh FFS. "There are REASONS. I won't speak of them." That reasons are the *********** copy-paste of the answer YOU tried to give me. Now, when told those reasons essencially fall under 'one-shot' category, you say "Oh, there are EVEN MORE REASONS I will not speak of". Would you kindly provide full list of those reasons, or you simply can't becouse there are non? Thanks. Because: mostly blue. Yup. Why the crazy talk? Might as well get a jump on the "I'm irrational" part. Fun Fact: I can VOTE with a "Because: mostly blue." mindset, and, as long as I keep that "I am an armchair psychopathic nihilist" to myself at the voting booth, I, and enough other crazy people can affect local, national and international policy by voting for someone... Because: mostly blue. Why should I change that for a game?... This non-sequitur unproductive post brought to you, IN PART, by a paraphrased "mostly blue" segment from Northern Exposure... Edited October 3, 2015 by DalrisThane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dharrkan Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 This is a bad solution to a non-existent problem, get rid of the this **** before it goes live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elracor Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 I mentioned a possible reason why. The same reason gamers are labeled a path of least resistance group of people. BW is no different. Why do more when you can do less. Of course it plays in, but surely if there was an easy solution they'd implemented it? I'm just not seeing that easy solution, too many potential issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertthebard Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 As long as they're not actively depriving others of enjoyment of the game... that would certainly seem to put griefing outside the box of "just have fun", I think. As for exploiters... I have a tremendous amount of trouble working up any outrage over 90% of the "exploits" that seem to draw so much ire. Most of the outrage seems to be more about something else, other than whatever damage the exploiters could possible do to other people's enjoyment of the game in most cases. For the most part, I can't figure out what that something else is. You do know what a griefer is, right? So by the very definition, very bold conditional doesn't apply. Is it any wonder that you can't see anything but conspiracy theories? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kodrac Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 As long as they're not actively depriving others of enjoyment of the game... that would certainly seem to put griefing outside the box of "just have fun", I think. As for exploiters... I have a tremendous amount of trouble working up any outrage over 90% of the "exploits" that seem to draw so much ire. Most of the outrage seems to be more about something else, other than whatever damage the exploiters could possible do to other people's enjoyment of the game in most cases. For the most part, I can't figure out what that something else is. Exploits that go unchecked will kill a game faster than an NGE. It seems you have a disconnect between the game you play and the people that make a living making it for the sake of your own personal enjoyment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allexj Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 No mandatory level sycs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sentientomega Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 I think its very possible there still fiddling around with it. Pretty sure they said highest level for the planet a number of times. If he was higher, it was a fluke I'd wager. UI fluke maybe? Actual scaling fluke - maybe. But that's a total disaster! I and so many others will never be able to do anything at-level solo... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kodrac Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 I'm just not seeing that easy solution, too many potential issues. Me too. If there was a way to make it optional without issues (exploits and general customer confusion) I would be fine with a toggle. I'm just not seeing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) Of course it plays in, but surely if there was an easy solution they'd implemented it? I'm just not seeing that easy solution, too many potential issues. Im sure it might have issues, its coding but how stupid do you think they are? Do you give them credit enough to get it right as mandatory for every single player in the game? Every single planet? Every single heroic area? Every single heroic instance? Every single quest that send you back to some low level planet and it all has less possible issues so go with forced on everyone? There are too many potential issues for optional but not if forced? You give them enough credit to miraculously get forcing it right, but its to hard to make optional because of some potential issues? I find your line of thinking really odd here. Probably nothing but, Why should BW do more, when they can get away with less. Gamers are victims of that label and BW is no different and since time and money is driving them, I'd say it makes it more plausible as to why there is no option to this. Edited October 3, 2015 by Quraswren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Spc Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) From blog: If you are level 60, and you return to Alderaan to do some Missions, your character will be scaled down to be level 32. And Alderaan bonus series is level 40+ So it will be impossible do to bonus series, because they HAD to do this level sync system. Another reason why this is super bad idea Edited October 3, 2015 by -Spc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZavienUK Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Let me see if I'm understanding you correctly here: You instructed me to go back and read the thread, even though you haven't read the thread to know if there's anything in there that I hadn't seen already? To be clear, the reason this thread is all mashed together is because there were several of them clogging the first page. This is people freaking out about level sync, because they don't want it, or it's not optional. Then we get the stream, and then the blog, and then people are picking and choosing what they want to use from the blog because they don't think anyone will bother to read the whole thing, so they can claim it says whatever they want, or as was done in this very thread, quote one line out of context, aka cherry picking, to carry on their cry of DOOM. It doesn't matter, in the context of the dialog if it was your post or not. You quoted me claiming that nobody is cherry picking anything. Since you claim you can't speak for anyone else, how can you speak for the people that are cherry picking lines out of context to prove how "doomed" the game is? If you hadn't done it, why did you feel the need to defend it? Is it some kind of "Us vs Them" thing? Ironically, I haven't come down firmly one way or the other about this, because I'd prefer to see it in action for myself, and I will, when it goes live. I'll make a decision based on my own hands on experience. What I have consistently done is point and laugh at the doomsayers. Urggh, I can barely be bothered with this, but if I don't reply you will infer something from that too. I have been here since and read the entire thread that was created after the stream. If this was merged with a thread that was created before the stream even went out, and therefore including concerns that turned out to be unfounded (e.g. losing abilities) I hadn't realised that. I suggested you go back and read the thread because you seemed unable to understand the concern that some people had, and why some people are against this. I completely disagree that the majority of posters here are cherry picking anything. We understand the system as far as has been shown, and it comes down to wanting or not wanting that system to be mandatory. The thread I have been taking part in has not been about doomsayers for the most part, and I'm sorry your being mislead by the unfortunate title that was retained after the mergers. I have certainly never suggested the game is doomed, and I certainly don't think so, because this brings a great deal to the game. But I am with other posters in wanting it to be optional. 'Pointing and laughing' at doomsayers as you put it is unhelpful and inflammatory. Try to show a little empathy for the people who are upset by this. I might not agree that is the 'death of swtor' but they are entitled to their opinion all the same, and while they are most probably wrong when they say it is the 'death of swtor' it doesn't change the fact that they are upset by this change. And in any case where are these doomsayers your talking about, I'm not seeing much of that in this thread. Actually trying this system out before having an opinion/commenting on it is actually a very logical approach, but we can't do that until the expansion launches (because there is no PTS) and obviously people will be concerned that the longer it is left to provide feedback the less likely it is that the system will be changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kodrac Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Im sure it might have issues, its coding but how stupid do you think they are. Do you give them credit enough to get it right as mandatory for every single player in the game? Every single planet? EVery single heroic area? Every single heroic instance? Every single quest that send you back to some low level planet? There are too many potential issues for optional but not in forced? You give them enough credit to miraculously get that forcing it right, but its to hard to make optional because of some potential issues? I find your line of thinking really odd here. Probably nothing but, Why should BW do more, when they can get away with less. Gamers are victims of that label and BW is no different and since time and money is driving them, I'd say it makes it more plausible as to why there is no option to this. A universal change is much easier to plan, develop and code than throwing in a myriad of options. it's not about giving them credit to do it right one way and wrong another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiesu Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) Oh I read it. And then promptly went W.TF! is he on because clearly we all need some and he isn't sharing. Indeed I was just as confused by the logic used there! No wonder I'm not the only one who was laughing out loud thinking that was some next level logical thinking by some people there! Thats why i pointed it out, for the amazing internet logic lulz quoted. Edited October 3, 2015 by Kiesu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kodrac Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 From blog: And Alderaan bonus series is level 40+ So it will be impossible do to bonus series, because they HAD to do this level sync system. And how do you know the bonus area will still be 40+ ? You assume too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) A universal change is much easier to plan, develop and code than throwing in a myriad of options. it's not about giving them credit to do it right one way and wrong another. A universal change isn't any more easier when dealing with that much code and or all those areas that I mentioned. It's just interesting when it code time. Like I said, Why do more when you can do less and get away with it and But that's a total disaster! I and so many others will never be able to do anything at-level solo... ITs got high potential to piss off a good number of gamers. There are a lot of people that love to solo. BW isn't turning every FP into a soloable FP because no one asked. Solo is a huge things even in an MMO. Not being able to go back and solo some world bosses and possibly some old heroics. That will get on some gamers nerves for sure. Thats why you keep hearing a cry for making this optional. Down leveling isn't a bad feature at least not until it's forced on everyone. Like 12X, this should not have rolled out till it had optional on it. Edited October 3, 2015 by Quraswren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiesu Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 There are too many potential issues for optional but not if forced? You give them enough credit to miraculously get forcing it right, but its to hard to make optional because of some potential issues. I see you haven't read up on any of the replies on problems to your brilliant suggested solutions here, as i still havent seen a working one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Spc Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) And how do you know the bonus area will still be 40+ ? You assume too much. And are assuming that they will change all the missions ? I think you're wrong. I think you'll need a group do do bonus series. Edited October 3, 2015 by -Spc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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