4.0 The dumbification of SWTOR.

[Raansu]

FFXI was truly a great MMO, love it, that's about the only thing I agree with on your post.

 

FFXI grouping was great because everyone was helpful, failed attempts were accepted and overcame. What killed grouping for alot of casuals.....the learn to play noob communtiy imo. I was a hardcore raider all the way up to WoW, getting phone calls from my raid leader at 4am because a boss spawned and it took hours to down a boss. You know what killed group content for me? Watching a raid leader in WoW bash a player because she didn't get out of the fire fast enough. A game is suppose to be fun for everyone, the fun stops the moment it turns into a job, the moment you have to be a certain spec, with a certain gear level or you are classed as a newb and kicked from the group. People cleared Lich King raids in quest blues to prove a point that you didn't need BiS to down a raid, you needed teamwork and determination.

 

Hell look at pvp in this game, we lose by 5 points and it's **** you guys suck go kill yourselves. That kills any desire for a casual to make the jump into grouped content.

 

You act like KoTFE is the end of raiding, yeah the OPS are getting rehashed, but the drops are updated by level now, We don't know what KoTFE is going to offer next year, only that they said no new raids with the release of the expansion. It'll come and believe me it will eventually, but I can tell you right now what will happen. Those raids will be put on farm status within the month and people will be back on these forums saying "Your not showing enough attention to us, we demand more because we subscribe and so on so forth".

 

Well casuals subscribe too, people who are here for the story and the story alone subscribe, when was the story given attention? Hutt cartel was one planet, Ziost is just a daily planet and SoR was great but again just 2 more daily planets.

 

This MMO was advertised as a Story Driven MMO, not a Raid and PVP MMO, it's about time the story got some love. Sure some of the changes suck, well not for me but for others sure it looks bleak, but you can still pvp, can still raid and can still group if you want.

 

"A year from now"

 

By then it will be 3 years since the last new raid.

 

I'm not against story driving content or solo content. I just dislike when a developer focuses on one thing and pushes everything else to the side. FFXIV does both solo and group content and does consistent updates every 2-3 months. Why cant BW do the same? Kind of sad really.

[Kalfear]

Havent hit this thread in a while and really 90% gone from game already

but saw this and so tired people correcting me when they are wrong

 

Except they are not removing stats from gear.

 

Your own quote from down the page

 

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post

How does gear come into play here?

Starting in KotFE your Companion's power and stats scale with your level, regardless of the gear they are wearing. However, you can still use gear to determine exactly how your Companions will look. (note: this is not a part of Appearance Designer)

 

So yes they are removing stats from companion gear, which is what I said originally

Doesn't get any more clear then that

[branmakmuffin]

I'm not against story driving content or solo content. I just dislike when a developer focuses on one thing and pushes everything else to the side. FFXIV does both solo and group content and does consistent updates every 2-3 months. Why cant BW do the same? Kind of sad really.

Then why are you here instead of playing FFXIV? Just to troll the forums with chronic discontent?

[Mikahrtwo]

"A year from now"

 

By then it will be 3 years since the last new raid.

 

I'm not against story driving content or solo content. I just dislike when a developer focuses on one thing and pushes everything else to the side. FFXIV does both solo and group content and does consistent updates every 2-3 months. Why cant BW do the same? Kind of sad really.

 

If you prefer "never" as an answer, well, never.

lol

 

FFXIV story was so good that requirement to finish the story until you can acess expansion was HUGE problem that actually had to be adressed by Yoshida himself. And, just for those who dont know, FFXIV is pretty much single character game. AND you had to group to do the story aka forced grouping. Imagine you had to do Oricon story arch until you can access SoR.

 

FFXIV is doing so great that they needed cash shop on top of buying the game+sub+buying expansion to stay afloat.

 

And, no small matter, FFXIV isnt all that popular in the west, its main player base is in asia (namely Japan).

Edited September 30, 2015 by Mikahrtwo

[Mikahrtwo]

But it's no longer a story driven MMO

 

It will becime story driven agan, and your personal subjective definition of "MMO" is irrelevant.

[Mikahrtwo]

It's comments and people like you that make Bio think this ok... It's not...

 

 

Edit: someone already point this out to you... Guess you're in the minority of what players want...

 

Forum warriors represent tiny minority.

 

Raiders are smallest demographich in MMOs. Even PvPers are bigger demographic.

 

Raids are completely unnecessary for successful MMO, in fact, using resources that they used on raids better, it can help with heslth of the gamesince there will be more content for those 95%.

[Mikahrtwo]

Buys online game.

 

Plays in corner by himself.

 

Logic?

 

Playing an MMO only to play solo and never touch group content is the most idiotic thing ever. Why play to begin with then? FFXI was the last true mmo. That game required groups for EVERYTHING including leveling up. Great community, great content, none of the "everyone runs around and does their own thing and pretends its a single player game" garbage. You wanted to do something? Guess what? You gotta play with others. Was literally the greatest thing about that game and lasted over a decade and is still a sub game.

 

This game wont will be lucky if it reaches 6 years as it floats through the casuals burning through solo content and not giving actual MMO players anything to do so you have no dedicated player, just players that float through the game. KOTFE basically proves that BW has given up on the game and will just float the last few casuals through one last solo story before shutting the game down because none of them will hang around once they finish everything in 2 hours.

 

"KOTOR 1-8"...with regular story contetn updates.

 

biggest sales pitch for SWTOR.

 

But, since they listened to your kind (tiny minority), and you cannot sustain a game by yourself a change in direction was very much needed.

 

Its last train for SWTOR, and all becuase they wanted to appease to people like you. Lets just hope that all those that left because they tried to appease to peope like you will take another look at SWTOR. And that BW can produce some quality story content. Thats actually worth paying for opposed to "endgame" they went with until recently.

Edited September 30, 2015 by Mikahrtwo

[robertthebard]

It's comments and people like you that make Bio think this ok... It's not...

 

 

Edit: someone already point this out to you... Guess you're in the minority of what players want...

 

If it's not OK, then their metrics would tell them something other than what they're telling them. Do you sincerely believe they read the forums only and go "Hey, we need to make all the Ops and FPs solo-able? Is this really what you're bringing to the table to try to run someone else down, or shut them up in a dialog?

 

Here's how it works:

 

They can check their logs and see what's being run and what isn't. How is it, exactly, that you believe achievements work? Do they come to the forums and see Player A saying "Yay, I finished my 10th run of xxx" and poof, there's an achievement for Player A? I have plenty of achievements, a few cars, and lots of NiM trophies, but the odds are, you'll never see me in a group. Why? I don't pug. I don't pug because I don't want to hear all about how good you are for 2 hours, and yet, every time I turn around twice, you're dead, yelling at someone else for messing you up.

 

I don't have enough time in my day to waste on people that think you have to have top tier gear to run a SM Op. Hell, I've run NiM successfully in an entire group that didn't have every single piece they needed, just to see if we could do it. So I know damn good and well that I don't need that gear for SM. So you'll be crying about my gear by yourself, if I'm actually undergeared, because as soon as the tears start flowing, I leave the group. I've got better things to do with my time than deal with basement dwellers.

[SelinaH]

Buys online game.

 

Plays in corner by himself.

 

Logic?

 

Playing an MMO only to play solo and never touch group content is the most idiotic thing ever.

False dichotomy.

 

The fact that any individual player does not queue for Group Finder or join PuGs does not necessarily mean that (s)he plays completely solo all the time.

[Teladis]

My wife and I duo and don't play with others. In fact we don't talk to others. We play mostly MMOs. Who says MMOs is about being social? To me, other players are like NPCs that buys my gear off ah. I don't even understand where it came from that MMO is all about grouping

[Aries_cz]

Havent hit this thread in a while and really 90% gone from game already

but saw this and so tired people correcting me when they are wrong

 

 

 

Your own quote from down the page

 

 

 

So yes they are removing stats from companion gear, which is what I said originally

Doesn't get any more clear then that

 

No, you said

 

Want gear, here we will remove the stats so you not confused or forced to even slightly think, just buy outfits off cartel market and your good to go

 

So you cannot write out what you mean properly, making it sound like all stats from all gear is going away.

[TravelersWay]

Buys online game.

 

Plays in corner by himself.

 

Logic?

 

Playing an MMO only to play solo and never touch group content is the most idiotic thing ever. Why play to begin with then? FFXI was the last true mmo. That game required groups for EVERYTHING including leveling up. Great community, great content, none of the "everyone runs around and does their own thing and pretends its a single player game" garbage. You wanted to do something? Guess what? You gotta play with others. Was literally the greatest thing about that game and lasted over a decade and is still a sub game.

 

This game wont will be lucky if it reaches 6 years as it floats through the casuals burning through solo content and not giving actual MMO players anything to do so you have no dedicated player, just players that float through the game. KOTFE basically proves that BW has given up on the game and will just float the last few casuals through one last solo story before shutting the game down because none of them will hang around once they finish everything in 2 hours.

 

What's the logic in the only reason for playing this game is because it's Star Wars? Yet, that reason has been given countless times since launch. Why should people have to forgo playing a good game, or one that they would enjoy, simply because of its on-line status. I always said that if the original Guild Wars was made as a single-player game, I would have bought that and still be playing it. It was't and therefore I still have to play the only version we got.

 

It seems like the industry has also realized this, hence the paradigm shifts in the MMO genre to make it more solo friendly. It's time to face the facts. The MMO genre would be dead if it were not for the changes in the last decade and a half. Be thankful for those filthy casuals and anti-social players - they are the only reason that we have so many great games to play now.

[Eanelinea]

Sometimes people don't want to group because they don't have time to. Do you really want to sit there and have to wait for someone because their baby began crying and needs to be fed? Or their dog needs to be walked? Or they came on long enough to do one or two things before they have to take the family out for socializing with them?

 

Not everyone is disabled and can stay home and play all day.

Not everyone is retired and can stay home and play all day.

Not everyone is unemployed and can stay home and play all day.

Some people can only play 30 minutes a day.

Some people only have non raid days off/available to play and they want to finish their class story, which is solo only.

Some people don't want to group with people who suck the fun out of the room.

Some people are free to play and don't have their weekly ops pass or pvp pass.

Some people have ran all the operations and flashpoints numerous times and don't want to run them again.

Some people only want to come online to vent their real life frustrations out on the npcs in a video game.

 

And some people don't want to spend an hour looking for others for a pug operation run. Maybe they want to run HM Toborro's Courtyard, but it's not on group finder and no one will join them for it.

 

Maybe they don't need anymore gear from that operation or flashpoint and don't need to do anything group related at the moment.

 

There's millions of reasons why someone prefers to solo instead of group for content. MMO doesn't mean mandatory grouping. It mainly means we're on Bioware's servers, online, playing in an environment where other players are also congregating at the same time.

 

If you want forced grouping there are games out there for it. Final Fanatasy, Everquest, etc.

[Mikahrtwo]

If you want forced grouping there are games out there for it. Final Fanatasy, Everquest, etc.

 

Actually those moved away from it too They were abandoned by players in droves because of it and they had to adapt if they wanted to exist. FFXI is will be shut down soon.

Edited September 30, 2015 by Mikahrtwo

[Uruare]

Does anyone agree with this? with all the rumors about it feels like they are dumbing the game down so that toddlers can even play it.

 

#1 Stats Crush

#2 Companions Auto Scaled, no gear

#3 Letting people buy 60's

#4 Skill Trees squished even further

#5 downscaling-upscaling

#6 Bolstering, why does gear even matter

 

The DUMBIFICATION OF SWTOR

 

 

It'll all dumb the game down on much the same way the electronic fuel injectors, antilock breaks, glare diffusing windshields and AC compressors have dumbed down the experience of driving a vehicle.

 

So no, frankly, I don't agree with you and I think you're both wrong and being way too kneejerk over excellent engineering decisions.

 

We don't know what it'll actually be in play just yet, so maybe save the drama for if there's even anything to have an indignant panic attack over.

Edited September 30, 2015 by Uruare

[psikofunkster]

Excellent engineer decisions? wow, you really really are working for EA.

 

Excellent engineer decisions my 2 cents...

Edited September 30, 2015 by psikofunkster

[_NovaBlast_]

completely disagree with the op and alot of the posters that have posted here ... award them the double facepalm.

this post says everything else

 

 

 

I also have not don't any raiding or PVP or really any group stuff IMO its really not the "core" of a mmo that some make it out to be .

 

(mmo is simply an environment in which multiple people are playing in the same environment in real time ...it has nothing to do with forced grouping or pvp in a general sense.)

 

I always find stuff to do whether its doing all the dailies weekly just running around one shot things just to hang out with certain companions and with more things being soloable there is even more to do.

 

If they start putting more forced grouping , raise the difficulty above "normal" level or I don't like what they do with companions that would be a game breaker for me however.

Edited September 30, 2015 by _NovaBlast_

[Teladis]

Like I said I never understood why people started thinking MMO had to be about grouping. Mud games before mmos had RPG elements with others but did not force grouping. As time went on group play became apart of mmos but not the core of it.

 

 

It is a rpg, and just like any good rpg. Options and play style are key. Groups are just that, nothing more or less.

[Raansu]

Then why are you here instead of playing FFXIV? Just to troll the forums with chronic discontent?

 

Because I enjoy swtor's pvp but its end game pve content is lacking thus I play FFXIV. But, ya know, heaven forbid I hold BW up to the standards of another developer.

 

If you prefer "never" as an answer, well, never.

lol

 

FFXIV story was so good that requirement to finish the story until you can acess expansion was HUGE problem that actually had to be adressed by Yoshida himself. And, just for those who dont know, FFXIV is pretty much single character game. AND you had to group to do the story aka forced grouping. Imagine you had to do Oricon story arch until you can access SoR.

 

FFXIV is doing so great that they needed cash shop on top of buying the game+sub+buying expansion to stay afloat.

 

And, no small matter, FFXIV isnt all that popular in the west, its main player base is in asia (namely Japan).

 

Not seeing the problem. Has a strong mix of solo content while also keeping group content relevant. Also, The game is sitting at 4 million active users and one of its servers population dwarfs the activity of all the servers in swtor. I'd hardly call that struggling to stay afloat. The cash shop is no different than WoW's with gender changes, server transfers and what not.

 

So ya, not sure what you're smoking there buddy but ffxiv dwarfs swtors population.

[Derfburger]

Does anyone agree with this? with all the rumors about it feels like they are dumbing the game down so that toddlers can even play it.

 

#1 Stats Crush

#2 Companions Auto Scaled, no gear

#3 Letting people buy 60's

#4 Skill Trees squished even further

#5 downscaling-upscaling

#6 Bolstering, why does gear even matter

 

The DUMBIFICATION OF SWTOR

 

Not a big fan of #5 (though it is a common MMO thing to let people group together more). That said since they are concentrating on the solo portion of the game idk why this is really needed at this point.

 

#6 agreed.

 

All the others no big deal imo. Though #3 tends to make end game worse as it lets player who do not know how to play their class have access to end game activities which can negatively impact other players enjoyment.

[Mikahrtwo]

Because I enjoy swtor's pvp but its end game pve content is lacking thus I play FFXIV. But, ya know, heaven forbid I hold BW up to the standards of another developer.

 

 

 

Not seeing the problem. Has a strong mix of solo content while also keeping group content relevant. Also, The game is sitting at 4 million active users and one of its servers population dwarfs the activity of all the servers in swtor. I'd hardly call that struggling to stay afloat. The cash shop is no different than WoW's with gender changes, server transfers and what not.

 

So ya, not sure what you're smoking there buddy but ffxiv dwarfs swtors population.

 

ROFl

 

Problem with expansion was so big that game director had to go in damage control. And all it took was finishing the story. Story which required forced grouping.

 

FFXIV is sitting on 4 million accounts created in 5 years around the world. And latest reports say only 20% of characters reached new level cap.

 

SWTOR had 8?10m iirc. So, no, FFXIV isnt doing all that great. Not to mention they spent boatload of money due to failed first attempt at launch.

 

They stay afloat, but absolutely nothing spectacular (except dips in population between content updates).

 

And we already see tearing apart of those content updates because latest one has been delayed by 2 months.

 

Cash shop has ingame items that arent obtainable ingame. On top of all other monetization. They milk you so hard it hurts.

Edited September 30, 2015 by Mikahrtwo

[Raansu]

ROFl

 

Problem with expansion was so big that game director had to go in damage control. And all it took was finishing the story. Story which required forced grouping.

 

FFXIV is sitting on 4 million accounts created in 5 years around the world. And latest reports say only 20% of characters reached new level cap.

 

SWTOR had 8?10m iirc. So, no, FFXIV isnt doing all that great. Not to mention they spent boatload of money due to failed first attempt at launch.

 

They stay afloat, but absolutely nothing spectacular (except dips in population between content updates).

 

And we already see tearing apart of those content updates because latest one has been delayed by 2 months.

 

Cash shop has ingame items that arent obtainable ingame. On top of all other monetization. They milk you so hard it hurts.

 

There's so much inaccuracy in this post it hurts to read.

[Uruare]

Excellent engineer decisions? wow, you really really are working for EA.

 

Excellent engineer decisions my 2 cents...

 

Actually, I'm a senior project engineer for a major aerospace defense contractor. For the most part, insofar as anything is disclosed yet, it seems that they're doing a very good job of designing towards a solidly identified intention rather than the fractious hydra-headed attempts at making The Game be a Raid Game and Casual-Friendly Game and PVP Game.

 

They've picked a direction and they're moving towards it apace.

 

Whether or not you like that is irrelevant. It is obviously so.

[Raansu]

Actually, I'm a senior project engineer for a major aerospace defense contractor.

 

No you're not.

[Eillack]

Level sync here we come