Please make level scaling optional in KotFE

[Jeweledleah]

not exactly. It bolsters you, it doesnt for example give you discipline points, abilities, passives, etc.

 

 

wait... did you think new system of scaling will give you higher level abilities?

 

becasue it will not. all it scales is your lvl, health and damage output of abilities you already have. it doesn't temporarily make you level 65.

 

for example of how this will actualy work? look to the way KDY and instanced event bosses currently work

[TravelersWay]

"Intended"?

 

"Intended"?

 

Who gives a **** about "intended"?

 

Indeed - the game was intended to be a subscription based game without 12x XP. Things change. It's not all that difficult for people to still play content on level "as intended" without needing a forced scaling feature. If it was truly intended that an MMO player only play content "on level" then MMOs would have implemented systems to prevent players from becoming over leveled for said content. Like playing "on level", being overleveled is simply an option that presents itself by design, and there's nothing wrong with that for those players who get enjoyment from that.

[Max_Killjoy]

Indeed - the game was intended to be a subscription based game without 12x XP. Things change. It's not all that difficult for people to still play content on level "as intended" without needing a forced scaling feature. If it was truly intended that an MMO player only play content "on level" then MMOs would have implemented systems to prevent players from becoming over leveled for said content. Like playing "on level", being overleveled is simply an option that presents itself by design, and there's nothing wrong with that for those players who get enjoyment from that.

 

 

And being able to go back and solo the Heroic2 on Oricon if I feel like something different some night isn't fault in the game, it's something that keeps me playing.

 

Being able to go back and 2-man or solo lower level Flashpoint for a piece of gear or because I never had a chance to play it on-level isn't a fault or oversight in the game, it's great.

[Argonloris]

I doubt the leaked photos would be real. closed PTS sessions have systems in place to identify who is playing in the screen shots. Anyone in a closed testing has to sign an NDA giving the company large sums of money and depending on the game, possibly your first born for ritual sacrifice if you break the contract. Considering it's EA we are talking about here I doubt they would hesitate going after money from rule breakers. Don't think anyone would take that chance.

 

Regardless, I've only heard news that certain flashpoints are affected by the leveling change. I doubt we would see level modification on open world systems as doing a reverse bolster on each planet would be more trouble than it's worth in coding. At most I could see them laying it out in designated PVP zones like outlaws den or the icefields in Ilum. Those however would make sense as it would be a step towards deterring ganking in pvp zones.

[cach-x]

It's a weird choice.

 

I thought this game was moving into a more solo friendly experience and "forced leveling down" (at least in the way I understand it, could be different) kinda goes against that.

 

The only positive I can see is that if high level players are "forced" to go back to old planets for dailies or whatever then the planets won't feel like ghost towns anymore.

 

Negatives... well. 2 of my favorite past times besides story content are gearing companions and soloing old content, and they both seem to be going away. Looks like I'll be cutting my sub time by 1/3

[Jedi_riches]

I have tried googling about planetary level scaling and came up with nothing (official or otherwise) I would think scaling outside of flashpoints and companion gear isn't a wise idea though.

 

I am a OK gamer (not great) so overlevelling slightly does help me with my enjoyment and experience of the game to "MY" fullest extent, since I am here for the 8 stories and voice acting with the ocasional flashpoint I don't exactly want to "faceroll" content either but just 2-3 level over content can still be effective but I will die if I don't concentrate on what I am doing (I have a habit of mind wondering).

[aeterno]

If we get scaled when visiting older planets the reasonable assumption is there will be something to go back to the old planets for at level cap. Else it would be the definition of wasted effort.

 

We've known for a while that some of the existing planetary content is getting "repurposed for alliances". This must be part of that.

[DarthSpuds]

I'm not sure about this to be honest.

 

I can see the pros and cons of scaling.

 

I do like the idea of facerolling old, below-my-current-level, content to tidy up missing achievements for example, or to collect decorations.

 

I also like the idea of scaling content so it is always relevant.

 

But above all I like the idea of me being able to choose which option to take at any given point, because how I am playing now may be different to how and why I am playing the same content in a week's time.

 

All The Best

[Max_Killjoy]

It's a weird choice.

 

I thought this game was moving into a more solo friendly experience and "forced leveling down" (at least in the way I understand it, could be different) kinda goes against that.

 

The only positive I can see is that if high level players are "forced" to go back to old planets for dailies or whatever then the planets won't feel like ghost towns anymore.

 

Negatives... well. 2 of my favorite past times besides story content are gearing companions and soloing old content, and they both seem to be going away. Looks like I'll be cutting my sub time by 1/3

 

Yeah -- 2 things I enjoy as well.

 

Yet people keep telling me to stop being negative about it where the game is heading.

 

In general LIKE being over-leveled, I play games for fun and stress relief, not for a "challenge" and not for some sort of useless adrenaline hit. I don't want the content to ever scale up, or my character to scale down.

Edited September 17, 2015 by Max_Killjoy

[IanArgent]

I'm worried enough about it that I'm doing the HK quest now on a character rather than putting it off some more.

 

What I'd love to see it the option for solo mode, paired mode, or 4 for heroic 4s and story FPs. For pairing, bolster the companions, but still have a firm requirement for all the roles to be filled. With the new companion mechanics (stats based on main char, not gear, any comp for any role), you could sneak in a bolster if the group selects paired mode for group content. It's a lot easier to get a second player to to group content with than to round up 4.

[EnkiduNineEight]

Of course you did every single thing in the game.

 

Funny to see people lobbying for the ability to "roflstomp,"

 

If their roflstomping doesn't affect the greater game, I say leave them to it. I've enjoyed being able to run through a prior FP to 'collect' equipment I had wanted but was unable to obtain when it was level appropriate. Especially with the addition now of being able to modify your cosmetic appearance. I ran through Athis SOOOOO many times just to try to complete a set because I wanted the look.

 

It sounds like they're removing the ability to go and do that. I wasn't hurting anyone, the items were bind on pickup, and they didn't provide a stats bonus because I outleveled them significantly.

 

No, to attempt to maybe get a full set of the dropped gear from a FP that has no benefit outside of aesthetics for me, I'll have to compete with other players on random/rare infrequent groupfinder pops to do a tactical version of the fp.

 

On my low-population server that's not very attractive to me.

 

The option to 'faceroll' or 'roflstomp' content where there really is no benefit from doing it other than aesthetics or a quick/brainless fun jaunt should be retained. New systems should be an enhancement to the experience and not a restrictor. By removing an option they are restricting my play.

 

And again, the 'benefit' to me was generally bind on pickup items. If they are concerned about people selling decorations etc, just change them to bind on pickup as well.

[Jedi_riches]

If their roflstomping doesn't affect the greater game, I say leave them to it. I've enjoyed being able to run through a prior FP to 'collect' equipment I had wanted but was unable to obtain when it was level appropriate. Especially with the addition now of being able to modify your cosmetic appearance. I ran through Athis SOOOOO many times just to try to complete a set because I wanted the look.

 

It sounds like they're removing the ability to go and do that. I wasn't hurting anyone, the items were bind on pickup, and they didn't provide a stats bonus because I outleveled them significantly.

 

No, to attempt to maybe get a full set of the dropped gear from a FP that has no benefit outside of aesthetics for me, I'll have to compete with other players on random/rare infrequent groupfinder pops to do a tactical version of the fp.

 

On my low-population server that's not very attractive to me.

 

The option to 'faceroll' or 'roflstomp' content where there really is no benefit from doing it other than aesthetics or a quick/brainless fun jaunt should be retained. New systems should be an enhancement to the experience and not a restrictor. By removing an option they are restricting my play.

 

And again, the 'benefit' to me was generally bind on pickup items. If they are concerned about people selling decorations etc, just change them to bind on pickup as well.

 

Agreed, on my first trooper I had my character and all my companions in trooper gear that was coloured orange which you can get from Flashpoints. Now fortunatly I got the chest peices from Hammer station and Madalorian Raiders I won my roll (technically the mods inside the gear were upgrades at the time so even though the "look" eventually went to my companion the mods inside were for me), but in the end I did not get the "entire look" such as any moddable legs etc for all sets so by the time I got to the point where I had a full squad and about to do the gauntlet mission I was overlevelled for the flashpoints I wanted gear off enough to solo for the rest.

 

Now should I want gear I will have to roll need for companion gear (its wrong but there is only so many times I will run a flashpoint to get stuff I once ran Mando raiders 5 times running for an item) if I don't get the option to solo a flashpoint and reset if the 1st boss for example does not drop my peice.

[LordTynell]

This reminds me of the flying debate in WoW. Over there, you had a vast majority against the removal of flying and a minority stating, "Flying isn't needed - we need it to make the worlds ALIVE!" Flying was an accepted norm in WoW. A gift for getting to level 60 and then epic flying, and then super epic flying (or whatever 310% was).

 

Well, in case you missed the "WoWTanic" sub losses in WOD, it didn't turn out well. Now, that's not to say that's the only reason WoW dropped about 4.5 million subs since November 2014, but it seems to a bunch of little things..

 

Kind of like KotFE:

 

No new group content at launch.

Level scaling.

Making people do dailies to get their companions back.

One story for all classes.

 

I've played this game since Day 1 Early Release. As Obi-Wan said, "I have a bad feeling about this."

 

Disclaimer: This is an opinion. My opinion.

[Shwarzchild]

The entitlement in this thread is astounding.

 

Group content isn't meant to be solo'd unless a solo version is available. Group content will inherently come with greater rewards than a solo mode. If you are a solo player you have consciously accepted this consequence. While I'm sure it was a thrill to be able to skirt around the game design to get what you want, that kind of design was not how the content was designed to be used.

 

You are playing a hybrid MMO. That means that there will be group content, and there will be solo content. You can not realistically expect group content to become solo content because you prefer it. You can not expect rewards for group based activities to be the same for solo content. Solo content should not have the same levels of rewards be it deco, credits, gear. If you want those things you will have to understand that you need to cross the aisle and play more group content in a way that can give you satisfaction. I like to call it gamer growth.

 

About the level of the game. Stop. The re scaling is a very good thing, and it needs to happen. It needed to happen at 2.0, and at 3.0, and thankfully we'll be getting it at 4.0.

[aeterno]

Only problem I have is the impact on travel.

 

Relevant content shmelevant content, fine, scale me for quests and whatnot, but if I, on my way to an alliance contact, have to kittyfoot around coruscant mobs again, after 4 year's, that's going to be... a special kind of tedious.

[Jedi_riches]

The entitlement in this thread is astounding.

 

Group content isn't meant to be solo'd unless a solo version is available. Group content will inherently come with greater rewards than a solo mode. If you are a solo player you have consciously accepted this consequence. While I'm sure it was a thrill to be able to skirt around the game design to get what you want, that kind of design was not how the content was designed to be used.

 

You are playing a hybrid MMO. That means that there will be group content, and there will be solo content. You can not realistically expect group content to become solo content because you prefer it. You can not expect rewards for group based activities to be the same for solo content. Solo content should not have the same levels of rewards be it deco, credits, gear. If you want those things you will have to understand that you need to cross the aisle and play more group content in a way that can give you satisfaction. I like to call it gamer growth.

 

About the level of the game. Stop. The re scaling is a very good thing, and it needs to happen. It needed to happen at 2.0, and at 3.0, and thankfully we'll be getting it at 4.0.

 

So you would prefer it if I roll need on gear that I want for a companion then? There are only so many times I will re-run a flashpoint, if I solo Athis for instance for the trooper legs I know it comes from the first boss so if I don't get them I can simply exit reset and try again.

 

I am harming nobody by doing this, I will however be harming other people if I am "forced" to roll need on stuff I want for companions, I mean if after running a flashpoint for the 5th time in a row am I really going to risk loosing a roll by hitting greed for a peice of gear I want.

[Max_Killjoy]

Group content isn't meant to be solo'd unless a solo version is available.

 

Ah, yes, the "intent" canard again.

[MillionsKNives]

If old content isn't intended to be able to be solo'd at higher levels then why is there a game mechanic that makes low level mobs miss you 99% of the time? If it wasn't intended then why did they make it so gosh darn easy to do, for the past 3.5 years? Intended or not, after 3.5 years it's a feature. I'm not seeing any good arguments for removing it either.

[TUXs]

The entitlement in this thread is astounding.

 

Group content isn't meant to be solo'd unless a solo version is available. Group content will inherently come with greater rewards than a solo mode. If you are a solo player you have consciously accepted this consequence. While I'm sure it was a thrill to be able to skirt around the game design to get what you want, that kind of design was not how the content was designed to be used.

 

You are playing a hybrid MMO. That means that there will be group content, and there will be solo content. You can not realistically expect group content to become solo content because you prefer it. You can not expect rewards for group based activities to be the same for solo content. Solo content should not have the same levels of rewards be it deco, credits, gear. If you want those things you will have to understand that you need to cross the aisle and play more group content in a way that can give you satisfaction. I like to call it gamer growth.

 

About the level of the game. Stop. The re scaling is a very good thing, and it needs to happen. It needed to happen at 2.0, and at 3.0, and thankfully we'll be getting it at 4.0.

 

Honest question - Once you hit level cap, what solo activity is there for players to do (after 4.0)? Dailies? Nope...too many H2 or H4's in those. Ops? Obviously not. FPs? Not after 4.0. Craft? Sure. PvP? Since that requires a group, that's not a solo activity, neither is GSF. Decorate your house? For a little bit. Replay the story? Can't do that either...so...where is all this solo content you believe is there?

[Shwarzchild]

So you would prefer it if I roll need on gear that I want for a companion then? There are only so many times I will re-run a flashpoint, if I solo Athis for instance for the trooper legs I know it comes from the first boss so if I don't get them I can simply exit reset and try again.

 

I am harming nobody by doing this, I will however be harming other people if I am "forced" to roll need on stuff I want for companions, I mean if after running a flashpoint for the 5th time in a row am I really going to risk loosing a roll by hitting greed for a peice of gear I want.

 

Harming people or not harming people isn't the point. What I'm saying is simply: if the stuff you want is in a game mode you don't enjoy you either don't get what you want, or you understand the time and effort it may take ti get it. If it takes you 7-10 tries to get something that's what you have to deal with. Or you could just find a similar item that isn't involved in a game mode you dont enjoy that resembles that piece. Or you just don't get it at all and accept that because you don't enjoy doing that part of the game you won't get it. I'd love to get enough tokens to get the mounts and things from the pvp seasons, but I don't enjoy pvp. I don't think I'd be in the right if I said that I deserve those rewards without doing what's intended (play a bunch of pvp matches). I don't see much of a difference in that line of thinking in terms of this conversation between solo players wanting group content rewards.

[DOHboy]

Honest question - Once you hit level cap, what solo activity is there for players to do (after 4.0)? Dailies? Nope...too many H2 or H4's in those. Ops? Obviously not. FPs? Not after 4.0. Craft? Sure. PvP? Since that requires a group, that's not a solo activity, neither is GSF. Decorate your house? For a little bit. Replay the story? Can't do that either...so...where is all this solo content you believe is there?

 

H2s and H4s are optional, not required.

if all you care about it solo content, they will just reroll a new toon or quit once they've done everything. People don't play MMOs for solo content, this game being a huge exception with the story lines. Once they've absorbed all of it they want, they will most likely leave, or wait for another expansion and new solo content.

[Shwarzchild]

Honest question - Once you hit level cap, what solo activity is there for players to do (after 4.0)? Dailies? Nope...too many H2 or H4's in those. Ops? Obviously not. FPs? Not after 4.0. Craft? Sure. PvP? Since that requires a group, that's not a solo activity, neither is GSF. Decorate your house? For a little bit. Replay the story? Can't do that either...so...where is all this solo content you believe is there?

 

My rebuttal would be that end game is for group content/ mmo features. So in the hybrid mmo style that this game gives us the end game represents the mmo portion. For story driven players their options are to:

1) create a new character and level him through the story that's provided.

2) Dailies (Yavin has no heroics, Rishi has no heroics, Ziost has no Heroics, CZ has a heroic 2 which is you and your companion, Illum has a heroic 2 for you and your companion. A player can just ignore the heroic 4 on Section X if they wanted to or they could use that as a )

3) Do the story of Makeb Yavin and Rishi and Ziost.

4) Can do the daily solo mode shadow of revan flashpoints by picking them up from the quest givers, and when 4.0 drops as you've said previously there will be solo modes of a lot more flashpoints.

 

So there is solo content, but since the end game is more tailored towards the MMO crowd their options are limited. Being a solo player in an MMO is a hard position to put yourself in to be honest. It's literally squeezing the square into the round hole as best you can. This game does have a lot for solo players to get themselves into. The game is pretty well balanced to at least give something to everyone in some fashion.

[Transcendent]

The entitlement in this thread is astounding.

 

Group content isn't meant to be solo'd unless a solo version is available. Group content will inherently come with greater rewards than a solo mode. If you are a solo player you have consciously accepted this consequence. While I'm sure it was a thrill to be able to skirt around the game design to get what you want, that kind of design was not how the content was designed to be used.

 

You are playing a hybrid MMO. That means that there will be group content, and there will be solo content. You can not realistically expect group content to become solo content because you prefer it. You can not expect rewards for group based activities to be the same for solo content. Solo content should not have the same levels of rewards be it deco, credits, gear. If you want those things you will have to understand that you need to cross the aisle and play more group content in a way that can give you satisfaction. I like to call it gamer growth.

 

About the level of the game. Stop. The re scaling is a very good thing, and it needs to happen. It needed to happen at 2.0, and at 3.0, and thankfully we'll be getting it at 4.0.

 

The entitlement of your opinion is equally strong. Just saying.

 

They're adding solo modes to flashpoints and what-not, much akin to how we've seen Blood Hunt and the other flashpoints. I've got zero issue with solo-mode being added so players can go through and play the story, scaling involved or not - point in case here is that they do not drop equal gear / decos to the hard-mode or tactical flashpoints. Equally we have the hard-mode flashpoints available which do drop specific loot and while they are current content for the level players are at any given expansion (read - new content), it is still nice to be able to return to those very same hard-mode flashpoints and solo them when over-levelled so you can actually get the loot you will have missed out on due to terrible RNG rolls.

 

Now the caveat here, if they scale all flashpoints and operations to level, you'll no longer be able to do something that may / may not provide enjoyment to you, as well as guarantee that you'll be able to gain achievements and decos and gear that you simply couldn't previously (content may have been over-tuned or groups not available, or it may not be your preferred playstyle). Bear in mind we're talking about OLD hard-mode flashpoints, the ones that are now no longer relevant as you've already run them countless times while levelling on a previous expansion / level increase.

 

It literally causes no harm to leave that option in the game, a lot of players I know do this and it affects not a single other player in the game by allowing it. The same can be said about operations as well.

 

Content scaling in purely flashpoints and operations (old content) pretty much eradicates any chance of some players to finally be able to run content that is over-tuned from the start by game designers who simply do not have a flipping CLUE about the demographics of the players who play their game. All they see is content that isn't run as much as they like. Leaving the option to not have scaling and have it in "vanilla" form there harms no-one, and only increases longevity of that content.

 

On the other subject of content scaling, especially in an open world environment? Why would I even return to an old planet like Korriban, to be scaled down to the level of the planet, for anything like an Alliances system? What was the point of me levelling to 60 or 65? If it's introduced without being optional, then that's also content I will not run. It'll literally be the story as far as I can go, and then done - all end-game content will have been removed by defacto of the player not wanting to be scaled in the first place.

 

I seriously hope BioWare are not going to go down the path of content scaling. I don't actually recall any player ever having asked for this to be introduced since I've been playing the game. Ever.

[DarthSpuds]

If old content isn't intended to be able to be solo'd at higher levels then why is there a game mechanic that makes low level mobs miss you 99% of the time?

 

Shhh now.

 

Sensible facts have no place here; people want to accuse others of being entitled.

 

 

All The Best

[Shwarzchild]

The entitlement of your opinion is equally strong. Just saying.

 

.

 

Had I not put that initial sentence in there I don't think you would be able to label me entitled. To your points. I understand, but it is still an entitled approach to sit there and say well I'm not hurting anyone so I should be able to do x or y or z even though that game mode isn't meant to be played that way. A Heroic 4 is meant to be played with 4 players. An operation 8 or 16, flash point 4. This game at the forest level tries to be everything to everyone which is a good thing. Inevitably though, there will be times when a player in this type of environment will come across something that they'd want, but can't readily achieve because it doesn't mesh with their totally ideal in game style. When I got to this game at launch, I was a solo only player. I understood that if I wanted x reward or y reward that was intended for group play that I'd have to step out of my comfort zone and find a way to make that group play as enjoyable as my solo play. Now, I'm totally into the group play more specifically end game raiding. I love it. Had I not been OK with stepping out of my comfort zone to do what the mission intended me to do i.e get in a group i would have never discovered my love for raiding.