Nico Okarr's Coat - What a disappointment

[Andryah]

I guess this nonsense topic is the forum chew-toy for the weekend. Everyone be sure to get a few chews in.. to make you feel like you conquered the emperor or something. Better yet... get yourself a class action lawsuit going.

 

Seriously.... it's a digital fluff item that in no way affects game play except for some peoples perceptions of aesthetics. But hey.. tell you what.. if you really feel screwed here.... go ask for a refund on the price you paid for the Duster.

 

All this Bioware lied!, Bioware screwed us again!, yada!, yada! is just the typical forum nonsense-about-nonsense. It's pointless faux-litigation about something that YOU have no control over, absolutely no say over, and Bioware decides what, how, when, and why.

Edited September 12, 2015 by Andryah

[Alssaran]

The only artwork we had of Nico to that point (that I know of) showed him in a specific coat, and people were expecting the specific coat that Nico had always been shown in. Same as they'd be expecting the DB5 from Goldfinger...

 

I really don't see how THAT is so hard to understand.

 

You can justify this all you want. It's free, don't complain. It didn't cost any additional money, so be happy. It has a slightly different color than the ones in the game.

 

It was lazy work for something that was supposed to be a reward for giving the game money during a content cycle in which nothing would release that was worth the money. This was supposed to show gratitude for the people who stayed subbed for three months and spend nearly 45$ during a timespan when nothing was on the horizon except a few minor tweaks. Bioware rewarded that with a reskin that took a single designer a days work.

 

Argue this however you want. People feel cheated, rightfully so.

 

All this Bioware lied!, Bioware screwed us again!, yada!, yada! is just the typical forum nonsense-about-nonsense. It's pointless faux-litigation about something that YOU have no control over, absolutely no say over, and Bioware decides what, how, when, and why.

 

That's only true to a certain extend. PR and image are important. If a company loses his image due to some pretty bad screwovers, there's no way in hell that anyone is going to trust them with money again. It devalues all other pre-order actions from Bioware and will result in less pre-orders happening and less "straight at release" purchases over a long period of time.

 

If Bioware feels the need to excercise their right to say: "This is our game! We do what we want!" they can do that, completely in their legal authority. But don't expect people to give them a second chance. Remember the ME3 ending? People were outraged and Bioware just reasoned with artistic integrity. That only made things worse and PR was turning sh*t in a matter of days.

Edited September 12, 2015 by Alssaran

[Blackbird]

I didn't say it just covered access to the base game, I said "When you pay your 15 dollars for your sub, you are paying for obligatory access to the base game, content updates & full features".

 

And for the dates indicated, the bonus items are included as "content updates & full features."

 

Ergo, they are paid for, not free.

[Aeristash]

You're paying, just not with money. In exchange for agreeing to use a security key, they promise 100 CC a month. This is a classic contract. Each promises to do something they are not otherwise legally required to do. Same with the "stay subbed" bonuses. We are not legally obliged to maintain our subscriptions through Oct. 19, so they are offering us additional consideration in exchange for us doing so, that is, the Nico swag.

 

Free means free, it does not mean "buy this and I will throw in this other thing, too."

 

Paying with what then? The app is provided to you completely free to use and the company pays you cc which have real world monetary market value to use the app, which cost you nothing but a few extra seconds of log in time. Bioware is effectively reimbursing you a bit of your sub for nothing. You'll get no argument from me that it's a binding contract but to say that you're paying some form dues to earn that is a bit much. Give credit where credit is due. Also your definition of free is liberally broad.

[Alssaran]

Paying with what then? The app is provided to you completely free to use and the company pays you cc which have real world monetary market value to use the app, which cost you nothing but a few extra seconds of log in time. Bioware is effectively reimbursing you a bit of your sub for nothing. You'll get no argument from me that it's a binding contract but to say that you're paying some form dues to earn that is a bit much. Give credit where credit is due. Also your definition of free is liberally broad.

 

Yeah, well. Did you ever hear about gaming transaction strategies? They give you the free CC so you spend some more money to get CC. What can you buy from 100cc? A single experience boost? A Valor boost? Nothing much.

 

However, there is a lightsaber for 400cc. You already have a hundrer. That means you only need 300cc. It's simply psychology. Riot has been doing that thing for years. They give you 500 Riot Points for free so you can buy 400 later on. Giving you 100cc has no real-life value to BW since you will eventually buy some more CC to purchase something. Or wait four months to get the item. And we all know how people like to wait these days.

 

If you believe Bioware is doing something to be nice as a profit-focused company, you're in for a surprise.

[Andryah]

That's only true to a certain extend. PR and image are important. If a company loses his image due to some pretty bad screwovers, there's no way in hell that anyone is going to trust them with money again. It devalues all other pre-order actions from Bioware and will result in less pre-orders happening and less "straight at release" purchases over a long period of time.

 

Ahem... this is an MMO, produced and managed by a large gaming company. By definition... they have a negative PR image with some percentage of the player base at any given time. Those that hate a game company (for whatever reason) will continue to do so and will actively seek reasons to do so. No positive PR effort can or will mediate such committed negative feelings. These same people, the very negative ones, will continue clamoring to snap up incentives and rewards every chance they can get... perhaps just so they can complain some more.

 

No... Duster-gate will be long forgotten in a month or two as habitual haters and complainers move on to their next internet chew toy.

 

Seriously... you have maybe a few dozen vocal complainers about this duster... without by the way actually seeing it in game yet. That does not = PR torpedo.

 

People need to stop inflating their importance as internet complainers. There are, and always have been things about this game I do not like... but I also know there is no point in complaining 7/24 in the forums over every perceived deficiency in the game. I've only gotten to a true frustration point one time (when they were incredibly inept for months after SoR dropped), and I took a break for 6 months from the game too. Came back when they showed some evidence of forward progress of the game with 4.0 coming. Of course 4.0 could be a disaster worse then how they handled SoR too.. and if so ... and if it upsets me ... I'll take another break.

Edited September 12, 2015 by Andryah

[Aeristash]

The only artwork we had of Nico to that point (that I know of) showed him in a specific coat, and people were expecting the specific coat that Nico had always been shown in. Same as they'd be expecting the DB5 from Goldfinger...

 

I don't even care that much, I'm just tired of watching the usual suspects troll and belittle people over what was a reasonable conclusion given the evidence at hand.

 

Yes, but like I said, that's presumption. Bioware never once said 'Get the duster nico okarr wore in the return trailer'. They just said get nicos duster, which can extend to any type of duster that the owners of nico, as an intellectual property, could dream up. Really no use in people getting mad about their own presumed artistic promises being crushed by their own expectations. If bioware was at fault, I'd say so but they aren't. People set themselves up for their own demise with too many presumptions and no binding evidence. Waving a fist at bioware because they didn't follow through on the presumed promises put in their mouths just makes them out to once again be the victim of irrational bullying.

[Alssaran]

Ahem... this is an MMO, produced and managed by a large gaming company. By definition... they have a negative PR image with some percentage of the player base at any given time. Those that hate a game company (for whatever reason) will continue to do so and will actively seek reasons to do so. No positive PR effort can or will mediate such committed negative feelings. These same people, the very negative ones, will continue clamoring to snap up incentives and rewards every chance they can get... perhaps just so they can complain some more.

 

It doesn't matter if the game in question and the company in question is an MMO or a single player game. PR stays PR. Game development is a very reputation based job. Once you lose it, you'll have a bad time. Look at Wildstar. They did such a bad job with Wildstar that many people virtually forgot the game existed and won't even give it another try with F2P.

 

You can blame everything on that "small minority with negativity" all you want. The same way Blizzard justifies a subscription loss of 5,2 million subscribers in six months with "some fluctuation is always there" and "People have grown older.". We all know it was due to the WoD expansion being a mess, not because a vocal minority is negative about it.

 

You should not underestimate the effect of bad development and bad PR on an MMO just because you think it is a negative "minority" all the time.

 

Yes, but like I said, that's presumption. Bioware never once said 'Get the duster nico okarr wore in the return trailer'. They just said get nicos duster, which can extend to any type of duster that the owners of nico, as an intellectual property, could dream up. Really no use in people getting mad about their own presumed artistic promises being crushed by their own expectations. If bioware was at fault, I'd say so but they aren't. People set themselves up for their own demise with too many presumptions and no binding evidence. Waving a fist at bioware because they didn't follow through on the presumed promises put in their mouths just makes them out to once again be the victim of irrational bullying.

 

This reads like an argumentation for lazy work. "You believed that it would be the classic coat Nico wore. The one you all knew for five years. But it wasn't. Because we think that this can be Nico Okarrs coat too.". Kind of like a five year old. "I said I'd do it. I never said when I'd do it.".

Edited September 12, 2015 by Alssaran

[Aeristash]

And for the dates indicated, the bonus items are included as "content updates & full features."

 

Ergo, they are paid for, not free.

 

Armor, clothing, weapons, vehicles ect are assets, not content & certainly not features.

[Zoom_VI]

Armor, clothing, weapons, vehicles ect are assets, not content & certainly not features.

 

content and features are comprised of assets.

[Eanelinea]

I had expected something along the lines of this to happen, disappointing but not unexpected. If we look at what we are offered, the duster was the one of the weaker bonuses offered. I would personally say it's my least desired of all, I could care less where it rots in my inventory. Their poor display of offering a recycled item on the other hand, shows very little consideration for those who are subscribed (myself included), attempting to tempt us with bonuses we may desire and delivering ever so poorly.

 

It would have been nice to show some love for the bonuses, new 3d models and textures, however, we are receiving the expansion at no cost(to subscribers). In Bioware's defense the bonuses are better than previous expansions, with subscribers ( as of a certain date) receiving Nico Okarr, his blasters, duster coat, a swoop bike and early access. Not too shabby for something we could consider free ( if you play regularly with a subscription).

 

Ultimately this does need to be voiced as it is poor delivery of a bonus item on their part, if we sit idle it will continue. Here is to hoping they actually remedy the situation and provide a new model at the very least. The newer armor sets in the cartel market have been amazing in regards to details compared to what we first received near when the market was introduced. I highly doubt (from my little experience in 3d modelling and texture class) that it would be such a hassle to simply create a new model and provide us with a quality bonus item.

 

Exactly. To me, it's not so much that it wasn't going to be 100% just like what he wore in the trailer, I knew they'd have to make it a bit different because of in game limitations for some things. (I'm not a computer person, so I don't know details like this) But the fact is, I'm more upset that an item that they're trying to tempt us with, make us want to keep our subs coming, what have you, was a reskin. I wasn't asking them to make batman's cloak or something, but something actually NEW would have been nice. As I've said before, just having NICO himself as my companion is good enough for me, but I don't want Bioware to keep assuming we'll just roll over with the free fluffies, awesome fluffies or ****** fluffies, and be done with it.

 

I'm one of those people call 'Bioware supporters', when in actuality I'm a SWTOR supporter. I like this game. I play this game more than I do anything else (mostly because I don't have any other computer games downloaded) and if I'm paying my subscription, which I've done since launch, I want to actually enjoy what I'm given. I'm not asking for uber special snowflakes items only for myself like I'm all great and important, but as much as I've shelled out real life money to continue supporting a game I enjoy, Bioware can take the time to at least show that they appreciate their subscribers and give us something that makes us glad we're still here and still subbing.

 

So far, I've gotten the Founder title, the Party Jawa, Refer-a-friend bonuses, box of color crystals, pets, titles, a free stronghold (NS), and all the other subscriber only items. They were unique and special in their way. Alot of us are just asking that Bioware at least attempt to act like they care. If you're going to say 'we'll give you nice free shinies for being loyal to us' at least put a little bit of effort into it and not give us things we have already, even if it's a different color.

[Aeristash]

Yeah, well. Did you ever hear about gaming transaction strategies? They give you the free CC so you spend some more money to get CC. What can you buy from 100cc? A single experience boost? A Valor boost? Nothing much.

 

However, there is a lightsaber for 400cc. You already have a hundrer. That means you only need 300cc. It's simply psychology. Riot has been doing that thing for years. They give you 500 Riot Points for free so you can buy 400 later on. Giving you 100cc has no real-life value to BW since you will eventually buy some more CC to purchase something. Or wait four months to get the item. And we all know how people like to wait these days.

 

If you believe Bioware is doing something to be nice as a profit-focused company, you're in for a surprise.

 

Hmph, well can't help but agree with this.

[Aeristash]

content and features are comprised of assets.

 

I knew we were going there the second I posted that Now we have to argue exactly what defines content & features and how exactly assets are integral to their makeup. This is going to get extremely lengthy, so I propose we agree to disagree.

[Andryah]

It doesn't matter if the game in question and the company in question is an MMO or a single player game. PR stays PR. Game development is a very reputation based job. Once you lose it, you'll have a bad time. Look at Wildstar. They did such a bad job with Wildstar that many people virtually forgot the game existed and won't even give it another try with F2P.

 

You can blame everything on that "small minority with negativity" all you want. The same way Blizzard justifies a subscription loss of 5,2 million subscribers in six months with "some fluctuation is always there" and "People have grown older.". We all know it was due to the WoD expansion being a mess, not because a vocal minority is negative about it.

 

You should not underestimate the effect of bad development and bad PR on an MMO just because you think it is a negative "minority" all the time.

 

Trust me.... nobody will remember the Duster one month after 4.0 releases. It is simply not that good of a chew toy..even for this forum.

 

And your Wildstar anecdote only proves my point. ALL new MMOs get bad PR... mostly because you multiply player expectations across hundreds of thousands of players. PR is bad for ALL MMOs with a segment of the player population at any given time. Social media has only made this worse.. and nothing a company does right = credit given from players who choose to be negative about the game.

 

I agree with you that MMOs and single player games are equally loathed at the macro level in the world player community. One could argue that single player games have it even worse as they are pretty much consume and discard these days.... but so what. This is an MMO.

Edited September 12, 2015 by Andryah

[Eanelinea]

So, in fact I do believe that people who are upset have a reason. Bioware was supposed to show how much they care for subscribers who stay with the game during a long-term content draught. Who trust them that it's worth staying. This should've been rewarded with only unique items. Instead one of the most anticipated items is a simple reskin that took one designer a days work to make. Now they are calling that a "reward" for staying with the game through a long time without content. No, it isn't. It goes to show how much Bioware respects people who stick with this game through the worst.

 

 

I know I've stuck around through the good times, the bad times, and the *** YOU SMOKING BIOWARE?? times. Still here. I must be a masochist.

[GhostDrone]

Nope not those. Try this one, or this one.

 

That said the undershirt in the cinematics is different from what they are giving.

 

Neither of these have anything to do with Nico's original coat.

 

His duster is based off of the Republic version of the Eliminator Smuggler set, except with the collar area being a lot more buffed and fat. The color scheme is more accurate (a darker shade of brown, not the terrible light/creamy sand type).

 

http://tor-fashion.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/RD06BEliminatorPubMaleClose.png

 

What they're giving us with this new coat is pathetic. It's not just a reskin. It's a reskin of an endlessly reused set of agent coat models that have only been made more common by the tons of adaptive variations BioWare has added since the Cartel Market dropped.

 

You can spot the slight differences all you want, but it's still an Agent coat. It'll always be an Agent coat. The Scorpion coat. It has nothing to do with any kind of iconic Smuggler apparel Nico was meant to represent in that Return cinematic.

Edited September 12, 2015 by GhostDrone

[Zoom_VI]

Guys I'm pretty sure you want it to be a reskin considering that their reskins of vanilla gear are much higher quality than their "new" models.

[Sith-Viscera]

They finally posted a picture of the coat on Twitter:

 

And it's just a recolored version of the Troublemaker coat... *yawns*

 

It's astonishing how lazy devs can be.

 

Edit:

Someone on Twitter posted an image of the Troublemaker coat dyed brown.

It look exactly the same as Nico's coat.

 

This is beyond lazy!

 

The troublemaker duster looks better then Nico anyway. I can care less about the duster. Before its over with i have Nico in some other gear. I usually where a set of gear for so long anyway and that goes for companions as well...

[DarthDymond]

They finally posted a picture of the coat on Twitter:

 

And it's just a recolored version of the Troublemaker coat... *yawns*

 

It's astonishing how lazy devs can be.

 

Edit:

Someone on Twitter posted an image of the Troublemaker coat dyed brown.

It look exactly the same as Nico's coat.

 

This is beyond lazy!

Wow. If that is indeed the released version of this reward then, yeah, I agree that's pretty lackluster.

[Blackbird]

I knew we were going there the second I posted that Now we have to argue exactly what defines content & features and how exactly assets are integral to their makeup. This is going to get extremely lengthy, so I propose we agree to disagree.

 

It's pretty simple. Without assets, there is no game, therefore assets are an integral part of the game. What's more, the assets require development resources to create and implement, therefore they are not a zero-cost item and are part of the development budget just as any other content.

 

But you can all keep sticking your fingers in your ears and denying that it ever cost BW anything to create these assets, or that they pass that cost onto you through your subscription.

[dscount]

Lets face facts.. they are even getting lazy in the reskinning department.

 

Look at the mount and gear those Battlefront users are getting.. Not even renamed... but stuff in game already. LOL

 

Unless this new "STORY" based xpac is super cool and keeps me on the edge of my seat.. I'm likely bored again before the end of the year is out. Especially without new operations (no rehashed/releveled OPS is not new content).

[neoraFIVE]

I've posted this several times, but it's been ignored. They CHANGED Nico's artwork when they extended the deadline to Aug 10. So the duster is accurate now.

[Alssaran]

I've posted this several times, but it's been ignored. They CHANGED Nico's artwork when they extended the deadline to Aug 10. So the duster is accurate now.

 

It is not that the duster does not fit the current artwork. It does.

 

What I think is bugging people is that Bioware thinks they can get away with another reskin of a reskin of a reskin as a subscriber reward, after starting the promotional action with the old Nico Okarr picture. Yes, the old picture was used during the start.

[Max_Killjoy]

It is not that the duster does not fit the current artwork. It does.

 

What I think is bugging people is that Bioware thinks they can get away with another reskin of a reskin of a reskin as a subscriber reward, after starting the promotional action with the old Nico Okarr picture. Yes, the old picture was used during the start.

 

Someone even posted the multiple degenerating iterations of the Okarr artwork that have appeared since the start, before the facts of the "new" coat "reward" were realized.

[Sobekeus]

So you didn't have to pay to subscribe in order to obtain them?

 

What is this unadvertised method by which you've obtained them?

 

I paid for the sub regardless of what ends up in my mail box on certain dates.

 

You and the others don't seem to understand how promotional items work in a business model. They aren't charging any extra for them, so they are technically losing money by not doing so. But you can argue cash flow all you want, you still have to understand it to make a point.

 

Every business has a marketing budget, those items fall under that marketing budget, they are not paid for in the sense that a Cartel Market item is. There is no direction purchase by the customer, so it is free. Because it did not have to happen, there was no expectation nor obligation for it.