dscount Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 The irony I mentioned in another thread... remove crafting from conquests, reward conquest with crafting mats. BUT WAIT... we have more... I suspect they are going to wait until the WEEK before go live for early adopters to explain what is happening to crafting. Primary reason (Rumor) is they are going to NUKE the materials market when a majority of them are made "OBSOLETE" and worth nothing but vendor trash piles. If rumors are true over 40+ materials (most of which are extras of same grade) will instantly convert to useless piles of credits. I do applaud they are going to finally do away with having more than 1 material at certain grades, but concerned on the approach if its true. So... again I ask BIOWARE to come out of it's 1950's marketing model and tell the good people that play this game what the REAL Crafting changes are going to be so we can all prepare accordingly. We have two more weeks of the advanced class patch notes being released and then hopefully we can get something more around other areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDucky Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Well, the only worthy option for crafters to make money, was that specific quest, and selling the conquest items they painfully crafted for weeks... Thank you for taking one of the only viable means of making money for crafters... *sigh* So basically, now, since mostly anyone can craft much of what they'll need/Want, the prices items sell for are less than what they are worth to make (check the cost to make a high level gear, between special mats and standard mats, it'll cost you around 35K/item in average -cost of making and disassembling large amount of items before hand not wistanding). So now, crafting will be solely for achivement purposes I guess :S. Only exception would be artifice and armstech I guess, for the barrel and hilts... At this point, why not just get rid of the crafting system all together? Since it no longer help while levelling either, as it's near impossible to get your crafting level in par with your actual level until higher levels, as we level so quickly... I'm actually fairly serious about removing crafting. Just get an automated build machine/droid. Ask what you want, like take the template of an item for style, choose the armor type (light/medium/heavy), apply the mods you wish. Then the companions get the materials, and craft the item automatically, still costing credits and time, so you don't loose that precious credit sink, and appearance of our companion actually spending time doing stuff (I'm all for that, it adds some immersion knowing a comp is unavailable doing tasks I picked, totally fine with me). Get rid of the multiple gathering/professions, it is a nightmare when crafting high level items. I assume originally, it was expected players would trade for ressources, but we all know this'll never happen, unless we need inventory spaces. But managing which toon needs to gather which ressources, for which items from which profession on which character can become annoying, and a bit of a maze. Considering what crafting has been used for so far, you might as well redesign it completely. If the idea of a building droid doesn't work out for people, at LEAST make crafting more Legacy friendly. Being able to do/launch stuff from any toons, and see what I can get without having to log out, take notes of what's needed from where to where would be a huge improvement. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries_cz Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Well, the only worthy option for crafters to make money, was that specific quest, and selling the conquest items they painfully crafted for weeks... Thank you for taking one of the only viable means of making money for crafters... *sigh* So basically, now, since mostly anyone can craft much of what they'll need/Want, the prices items sell for are less than what they are worth to make (check the cost to make a high level gear, between special mats and standard mats, it'll cost you around 35K/item in average -cost of making and disassembling large amount of items before hand not wistanding). So now, crafting will be solely for achivement purposes I guess :S. Only exception would be artifice and armstech I guess, for the barrel and hilts... At this point, why not just get rid of the crafting system all together? Since it no longer help while levelling either, as it's near impossible to get your crafting level in par with your actual level until higher levels, as we level so quickly... I'm actually fairly serious about removing crafting. Just get an automated build machine/droid. Ask what you want, like take the template of an item for style, choose the armor type (light/medium/heavy), apply the mods you wish. Then the companions get the materials, and craft the item automatically, still costing credits and time, so you don't loose that precious credit sink, and appearance of our companion actually spending time doing stuff (I'm all for that, it adds some immersion knowing a comp is unavailable doing tasks I picked, totally fine with me). Get rid of the multiple gathering/professions, it is a nightmare when crafting high level items. I assume originally, it was expected players would trade for ressources, but we all know this'll never happen, unless we need inventory spaces. But managing which toon needs to gather which ressources, for which items from which profession on which character can become annoying, and a bit of a maze. Considering what crafting has been used for so far, you might as well redesign it completely. If the idea of a building droid doesn't work out for people, at LEAST make crafting more Legacy friendly. Being able to do/launch stuff from any toons, and see what I can get without having to log out, take notes of what's needed from where to where would be a huge improvement. . How did those poor crafter made their craploads of money before conquests were around, I wonder? You will have to adapt to a new market, find a new niche. For example, Artifice got really badly hurt by introduction of level 10 +41 crystals on CM, but most adapted to the new market and prospered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diviciacus Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 I understand the drive behind making crafting to be non-repeatable, but... IMO, it would make reaching the personal goals even harder than it is now with higher limits but repeatable crafting. it would make good compromise, If it were possible to make crafting contribution to guild goal as non-repeatable, but leave it as repeatable for personal goals. The real solution, of course, is to make conquest points stop counting once a character reaches their cap. I've had weeks where my sentinel is at 350-400kk/35k. Derp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 How did those poor crafter made their craploads of money before conquests were around, I wonder? You will have to adapt to a new market, find a new niche. For example, Artifice got really badly hurt by introduction of level 10 +41 crystals on CM, but most adapted to the new market and prospered. Back then, gear wasn't thrown at players like candy... Armor mods, barrels, and hilts were more expensive (in terms of comms), and if you go way back, we had planet comms, not basic comms, to buy them all with. Gear used to be much more work to get, so crafting and selling it made sense. Today it is a joke... The game hands out so many comms, gear is so cheap with comms, there is little reason to craft any of it. Sure, bio can make implants and cyber can make ears, but there are a lot of people chasing that now, I'm finding a lot of purple of both for under 20k each on my server. That is hardly worth the trouble after the cost of mats... There is also almost no end game crafting anymore... Oh sure, you can craft 192 barrels and hilts, but that is the rare thing. Everything from 140 on up is now largely pointless. Even the 186 craftable stuff, while much better than basic comms, is rather pointless with Ziost 190 and elites dropping from the sky. --- Are there still credits to be made? Sure... but nothing like before... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries_cz Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Are there still credits to be made? Sure... but nothing like before... Yes, and slicing doesn't make one early game millionaire anymore. Stuff changes, you need to adapt to it, find a new crafting niche if you still want to earn money from crafting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnewton Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Well, the only worthy option for crafters to make money, was that specific quest, and selling the conquest items they painfully crafted for weeks... This change is bad, but that is not the reason. The smart people know that selling the materials for the conquest items was far more profitable than crafting the actual items. If you haven't figured that out yet, I feel sorry for you. Also, apparently 160 million credits from droid parts is 'not a worthy option for crafters' People always love to pretend they know more than they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Yes, and slicing doesn't make one early game millionaire anymore. Stuff changes, you need to adapt to it, find a new crafting niche if you still want to earn money from crafting. Sure, and one of those adaptions is to not bother with crafting anymore... I have made a large sum of credits over the years from crafting, but it largely has become useless. Oh sure, you can make a little here and there, a few people target niche markets and are happy with that, but volume sales of high profit items are gone. This isn't a big deal, for those of us already wealthy, but it presents a challenge for newer players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Do I care? I didn't buy them, I sold them. If people aren't willing to stay updated on what little KotFE information we have, that's their fault. I'm certainly not responsible for the ignorance of consumers. Besides, that method was patched out in 3.1.1 anyway, before KotFE was announced. But it's okay, you can continue to vent your jealousy if you want You found a nice little niche and made some credits, good for you... but it wasn't the core of crafting and it wasn't volume or something that 500 people could have done... And it is gone now... as is the rest of crafting shortly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnewton Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 (edited) Sure, and one of those adaptions is to not bother with crafting anymore... I have made a large sum of credits over the years from crafting, but it largely has become useless. Oh sure, you can make a little here and there, a few people target niche markets and are happy with that, but volume sales of high profit items are gone. This isn't a big deal, for those of us already wealthy, but it presents a challenge for newer players. This. Believe it or not, some people in this discussion aren't debating it for themselves. I know several people in here (including myself) who already have more than enough creds, but still want the system fixed for others. Not everyone is selfish and/or greedy... not sure why that's hard for some people in this thread to understand Edited September 12, 2015 by idnewton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 This. Believe it or not, some people in this discussion aren't debating it for themselves. I know several people in here (including myself) who already have more than enough creds, but still want the system fixed for others. Not everyone is selfish and/or greedy... not sure why that's hard for some people in this thread to understand ^ This is correct... We have new members to our guild, on their first toon, to whom 50k is a lot of credits. They don't have collections full of CM crystals and armor unlocked to toss on new alts, they don't have 5 million credits to mail a new alt to just unlock everything, etc. How do those new players earn a lot of credits? Sure, they can get to lvl 60 and run dailies, and a few weeks of that does earn decent credits, but it doesn't get you to the hundred million mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafaman Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Lol! I love threads like this. It's like watching brain cells fight. There is nothing, and I mean nothing, in the changes made that will be a huge impact overall. Guilds that want to Conquest will adapt and do the same things. Those that don't won't care about the changes at all. Conquests while sometimes fun are hardly relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Lol! I love threads like this. It's like watching brain cells fight. There is nothing, and I mean nothing, in the changes made that will be a huge impact overall. Guilds that want to Conquest will adapt and do the same things. Those that don't won't care about the changes at all. Conquests while sometimes fun are hardly relevant. Actually, the wider change will be the change in mat prices... Older mats were largely worthless pre-conquest, that changed in a big way when conquest came out and crafting became the way to win... Now that it isn't, I expect mats to go back into the toilet of worthless... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 I meant to type "selling war supplies was more profitable than selling mats," which I do recall someone being stupid enough to say, but I was thinking faster than I could type it out and ended up omitting the clause that would have given it meaning by mistake. That has been fixed. Actually you're both not entirely correct on that aspect so I'll be stupid enough to say that. During the previous repeatable invasion force weeks I sell crystal capacitors and holocron of strategies for 40-60K each for 99 stacks. I think only 1 stack went at that 60K rate later in the week where as most were selling from 40-50K range. I build these up over months of conquest buying mats or using all the green jawa scrap I get from packs. I never pay more than 1500 per mat for the 8x crystals/holocrons and always have enough mats to constantly craft with 6 companions to get my weekly. So at most I pay 36K in mats and make that back plus profit ( don't forget crafting crits are pure profit in that regard ) during the repeatable weeks easily to the point I wish I had more was supplies to sell. I of course don't go overboard and constantly craft war supplies, just enough for each weekly just in case they do something to change the system and I get lumped with tons of war supplies I can't sell. Risk vs reward but it's always come out in my favour and with this change it will probably be more so for that first repeatable week in 4.0 ( 100k war uspplies maybe? ) Anyway the other war supplies I don't think do that great as the holos and crystals, I did buy some cheap and hold them for repeatable week but they didn't really go up that much in price. So yeah, maybe check your facts before you go around calling people stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 This. Believe it or not, some people in this discussion aren't debating it for themselves. I know several people in here (including myself) who already have more than enough creds, but still want the system fixed for others. Not everyone is selfish and/or greedy... not sure why that's hard for some people in this thread to understand This is a fair point. I am one of those people also and if anything these changes I predict are going to make me even more super wealthy because of the inflation I predict to occur ( well, waiting to see what other additions might be coming to the game/crew skills before I fully say that will be the case but so far it seems to be ). As I make 99% of my wealth these days from buying/selling cm items ( or from the packs I also buy with creds ) any inflation will increase the value of the 2000 odd items I have in storage. Also with this change I have far less to spend my credits on to the point I really don't know what I'll keep doing with them so they'll probably just build up until I hit that billion mark ( my new goal with 4.0 now since conquest crafting won't be a thing ). These changes really benefit no one, they don't benefit conquest and all they will really do is make it even harder for the "poorer" players to get what they want from the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Lol! I love threads like this. It's like watching brain cells fight. There is nothing, and I mean nothing, in the changes made that will be a huge impact overall. Guilds that want to Conquest will adapt and do the same things. Those that don't won't care about the changes at all. Conquests while sometimes fun are hardly relevant. Maybe actually read the thread before making such nonsense statements. People have demonstrated numerous times many examples of how this will have a large impact on the game on a whole as it stands. Feel free to actually argue those points if you feel they are wrong rather than make such foolish blanket statements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnewton Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Actually you're both not entirely correct on that aspect so I'll be stupid enough to say that. During the previous repeatable invasion force weeks I sell crystal capacitors and holocron of strategies for 40-60K each for 99 stacks. I think only 1 stack went at that 60K rate later in the week where as most were selling from 40-50K range. I build these up over months of conquest buying mats or using all the green jawa scrap I get from packs. I never pay more than 1500 per mat for the 8x crystals/holocrons and always have enough mats to constantly craft with 6 companions to get my weekly. So at most I pay 36K in mats and make that back plus profit ( don't forget crafting crits are pure profit in that regard ) during the repeatable weeks easily to the point I wish I had more was supplies to sell. I of course don't go overboard and constantly craft war supplies, just enough for each weekly just in case they do something to change the system and I get lumped with tons of war supplies I can't sell. Risk vs reward but it's always come out in my favour and with this change it will probably be more so for that first repeatable week in 4.0 ( 100k war uspplies maybe? ) Anyway the other war supplies I don't think do that great as the holos and crystals, I did buy some cheap and hold them for repeatable week but they didn't really go up that much in price. So yeah, maybe check your facts before you go around calling people stupid. I know Artifice can occasionally turn a profit nowadays, but in general it's still better to list mats than list crafts for conquest, especially since Artifice has no dedicated crit companion (though there is the +1 from Treek/HK). But yes, crafting the items can be profitable if you do it at the right times, but it's not as reliable, and generally not as good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnewton Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Maybe actually read the thread before making such nonsense statements. People have demonstrated numerous times many examples of how this will have a large impact on the game on a whole as it stands. Feel free to actually argue those points if you feel they are wrong rather than make such foolish blanket statements. Yep, pretty much this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiobhill Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Crafting and PVE contributions capped, PVP contributions uncapped. Not happy about these plans, both regarding the conquest events themselves and making old mats completely worthless again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnewton Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Crafting and PVE contributions capped, PVP contributions uncapped. Not happy about these plans, both regarding the conquest events themselves and making old mats completely worthless again. Yep. And PvP really isn't good in this game anyway. This game was never about PvP and it never has been, so it doesn't make much sense that they would force everyone into the gametype they don't focus on. You don't fix a bad system by giving everyone incentive to play it, you fix a bad system by MAKING IT BETTER. It's not rocket science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayseven Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Actually, the wider change will be the change in mat prices... Older mats were largely worthless pre-conquest, that changed in a big way when conquest came out and crafting became the way to win... Now that it isn't, I expect mats to go back into the toilet of worthless... Mat prices were screwed prior to this announcement unless BW has changed their minds about crafting changes in 4.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Mat prices were screwed prior to this announcement unless BW has changed their minds about crafting changes in 4.0 Mat prices have been coming down in recent weeks for 2 reasons... 1. Some people knew 4.0 was coming and was expecting a new tier of mats and don't yet know that we aren't getting one. 2. Summer is slower, people have been away, more sellers and fewer buyers. Some items area already starting to recover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayseven Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Mat prices have been coming down in recent weeks for 2 reasons... 1. Some people knew 4.0 was coming and was expecting a new tier of mats and don't yet know that we aren't getting one. 2. Summer is slower, people have been away, more sellers and fewer buyers. Some items area already starting to recover. 3. People saw the illegal info and decided to get what they could out of their mats before 4.0 turns them into vendor trash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 3. People saw the illegal info and decided to get what they could out of their mats before 4.0 turns them into vendor trash. That too, abit I wouldn't call it "illegal", since no laws were broken... Speculation info would be a better term... after all, nothing is set in stone until release... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yaxmutal Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 35k -> 20k is a big improvement. End of Craft to win is a big improvement. Good changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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