Conquest Changes in Fallen Empire

[TUXs]

It's the worst possible step as I see it and you've not really justified how it could be the best?

 

Wouldn't the best first step be bringing up other things as repeatable? Increasing the points other and new repeatables are worth so crafting is only "1" way of doing conquest but not necessarily the best way?

 

I mean we talk of metrics, we know they have them, we know they could do the math to work out how much to boost other items by to make it more balanced ( and be willing to keep tweaking it from there ).

This sort of approach would actually increase participation because a) crafters can still craft and add on tons of points and b) people who want to pvp/pve feel like they are competing evenly against crafters ( due to better points ) and thus will be more inclined to do so ( which is good for the whole game even if you don't do conquest because more people to do content with = more content to do ).

 

So yeah how is this the best first step? This is a step that drastically puts people out thus isn't it the worst possible first step? The best first step is one that doesn't over negatively impact people currently doing it whilst improving the other areas for other people.

 

Lets be honest here though ... conquest is a side thought these days. They really don't care. I come to this conclusion based on the decision they've made here and how little thought would have gone into it and how little time is required to make the change. Change a few numbers for the target and the code on the repeatable part for war supplies to match the one time only of the others.

 

I really don't know why they've even bothered to be honest, either do it properly or don't do it at all. All this is going to do is mess with the whole economy like that stupid slot machine, I really would have thought BW would have learned a lesson from that.

It's the first best step imo, because without spam crafting, there is ZERO way to win Conquests. There's nothing more monopolizing than crafting...there's nothing that even comes slightly close to it either.

 

Is it what "I" would do? Hell no. There are a ton of other things that we can both agree upon that should be done - repeatable activities being a key thing, whether that's crafting (reasonably), PvP, GSF, Ops, FPs or whatever...this isn't all I would do or how I'd do it myself.

 

I'm not anti crafting...I honestly don't care HOW you spend your time playing, as long as YOU are happy doing it. I WANT crafters to have a way to compete in Conquests too...just not monopolize it...which is what they currently do.

 

@TUX - This goes supports my previous points in other topics about how crap this community team is. He makes topics like this and doesn't do a damn thing to participate in the debate what so ever and just comes across as making us think their entire company as a whole ignores us.

 

A simple "Hey guys I've spoken with the dev team about your concerns and at this stage unfortunately it's staying as it is but they said they will monitor it going forward and KoTFE and look at changes then if they might be needed".

I agree...a few words here would go a looooong way to easing some players frustrations. I just don't know what Eric is allowed to say or do though...I highly doubt he has the freedom to just reply though. I wish they'd do/say more, but I believe their hands are tied more than you think.

[vaporousmist]

Also remember you as a guild of 5 are on cruise mode. I'm in a guild of 500 and know the amount of work my GM and leadership put in to keeping the guild ticking over etc. so they really shouldn't be punished for being larger.

 

 

my question then is, why are smaller guilds being punished for being smaller? small guilds do not have the manpower to push content. there is simply no way to put in enough hours of content in a small guild to compete with guilds that have 500 members. smaller guilds are mocked for not being able to be in the top 10 every single week. my little guild has been able to take down several of the largest guilds on our server BUT only because of months of farming, strategizing and millions upon millions of credits spent for a single conquest.

 

with the removal of crafting as a viable point maker, smaller/medium guilds will be unable to compete on a realistic scale. you will only see the same 6-10 guilds winning planets every single week. this move is completely unbalanced.

 

if lacking points for completion are the issue (as musco stated as part of his original post "One thing that we noticed in looking at Conquests is that not as many players as we would hope are completing their personal targets. We feel this may be because the targets are too high, requiring more time to complete than many players may have available. Because of this we are adjusting the target points for rewards in some Conquests") then why not make points easier to obtain. give more bonuses even. if you have a guild stronghold, extra 5% to points (or something). guild ship completion grants an additional bonus (this would also improve the utilization of guildships since right now their only funciton is to invade a planet and possibly provide and easy travel point by parking it over a desired planet) which would probably encourage more ppl to expand their ships faster. lowering the cap is great and all, but that doesn't help people get their points any faster/easier/better for guilds who commit to planets for which the only bonuses given are for pvp. also, how does this move effect conquest weeks like The Trade Emporium or Titans of Industry, which are both crafting-centric conquests? There are other better ways to get people to reach their completions than nerfing.

 

my question for eric musco is: if "Although we want to include Crafting as an essential part of the Conquest effort, we don’t want that objective to be the “only best answer” to Conquests." is really what you want for conquest, how does nerfing crafting to a 2000pts per legacy accomplish that?

[TUXs]

Also remember you as a guild of 5 are on cruise mode. I'm in a guild of 500 and know the amount of work my GM and leadership put in to keeping the guild ticking over etc. so they really shouldn't be punished for being larger.

 

 

my question then is, why are smaller guilds being punished for being smaller? small guilds do not have the manpower to push content. there is simply no way to put in enough hours of content in a small guild to compete with guilds that have 500 members. smaller guilds are mocked for not being able to be in the top 10 every single week. my little guild has been able to take down several of the largest guilds on our server BUT only because of months of farming, strategizing and millions upon millions of credits spent for a single conquest.

 

with the removal of crafting as a viable point maker, smaller/medium guilds will be unable to compete on a realistic scale. you will only see the same 6-10 guilds winning planets every single week. this move is completely unbalanced.

 

if lacking points for completion are the issue (as musco stated as part of his original post "One thing that we noticed in looking at Conquests is that not as many players as we would hope are completing their personal targets. We feel this may be because the targets are too high, requiring more time to complete than many players may have available. Because of this we are adjusting the target points for rewards in some Conquests") then why not make points easier to obtain. give more bonuses even. if you have a guild stronghold, extra 5% to points (or something). guild ship completion grants an additional bonus (this would also improve the utilization of guildships since right now their only funciton is to invade a planet and possibly provide and easy travel point by parking it over a desired planet) which would probably encourage more ppl to expand their ships faster. lowering the cap is great and all, but that doesn't help people get their points any faster/easier/better for guilds who commit to planets for which the only bonuses given are for pvp. also, how does this move effect conquest weeks like The Trade Emporium or Titans of Industry, which are both crafting-centric conquests? There are other better ways to get people to reach their completions than nerfing.

 

my question for eric musco is: if "Although we want to include Crafting as an essential part of the Conquest effort, we don’t want that objective to be the “only best answer” to Conquests." is really what you want for conquest, how does nerfing crafting to a 2000pts per legacy accomplish that?

Really? You don't understand how crafting is extremely out of whack with anything else?

 

It's getting nerfed because right now, Conquests are exclusive content to whoever crafts the most. NO OTHER ACTIVITIES can come close. Crafting NEEDED to be reigned in...it's been ruining conquests since it launched. If you refuse to see how simple and obvious the reasons for the nerf are, so be it...but it's clearly obvious to everyone but a handful of folk.

Edited September 11, 2015 by TUXs

[Heat-Wave]

Really? You don't understand how crafting is extremely out of whack with anything else?

 

It's getting nerfed because right now, Conquests are exclusive content to whoever crafts the most. NO OTHER ACTIVITIES can come close. Crafting NEEDED to be reigned in...it's been ruining conquests since it launched. If you refuse to see how simple and obvious the reasons for the nerf are, so be it...but it's clearly obvious to everyone but a handful of folk.

 

Frankly, this is just another example of how conquest was put into place without proper testing and without enough thought. Rather like the stronghold slot machine, just tossed out without testing. Even a small amount of testing would have show that the original pay rates of that thing were insane. Of course, did they fix it to something reasonable? No, they nerfed it into nothing, I haven't used one since and the 4 on my guild flagship are always empty.

 

Bioware doesn't do middle ground, and that is a shame. SWTOR could be so great, if they had reasonable adults running the place, but frankly lets be honest, watch the streams and you'll know they don't have adults running the place.

[TUXs]

Frankly, this is just another example of how conquest was put into place without proper testing and without enough thought. Rather like the stronghold slot machine, just tossed out without testing. Even a small amount of testing would have show that the original pay rates of that thing were insane. Of course, did they fix it to something reasonable? No, they nerfed it into nothing, I haven't used one since and the 4 on my guild flagship are always empty.

 

Bioware doesn't do middle ground, and that is a shame. SWTOR could be so great, if they had reasonable adults running the place, but frankly lets be honest, watch the streams and you'll know they don't have adults running the place.

Absolutely it is. It's a shame too...they're extremely slow to react and when they finally get around to it, they destroy things. It baffles the living **** outta me how they muck things up like they do, as often as they do. I swear, it's almost like they screw things up so bad intentionally.

[casirabit]

You do know you can form a full group of 4 (or 8 for Ops) out of people you like and still use GF right? Also, not being completely useless helps a lot in preventing people screaming at you (and it is not really that hard to not be completely useless in SM Flashpoints/Ops or in Tacticals)

 

And also, nobody is forcing you to use it, but then do not complain you are losing out on rewards.

 

Really Aries, telling someone not to be completely useless was something you had to do? Give me a break. I been in groups where people will yell and be jerks because they are like that. I am a medic and I have done hard mode operations and flashpoints with no problems. I have the correct gear and I damn well know what I am doing but yet when I did group finder this happened to me as well. Even my friends, who are tanks are fed up with group finder and the attitudes that are in group finder lately.

 

You do know there are idiots out there in group finder that will be jerks because maybe they "gasp" have to blame someone else. Maybe instead of telling someone they are useless you might want to understand that there are jerks out there in group finder and they might be the problem.

Edited September 11, 2015 by casi

[casirabit]

Absolutely it is. It's a shame too...they're extremely slow to react and when they finally get around to it, they destroy things. It baffles the living **** outta me how they muck things up like they do, as often as they do. I swear, it's almost like they screw things up so bad intentionally.

 

I have to agree as well and I used to think highly of BW. How can they think nerfing crafting like they did is the answer especially when they haven't given another way for people to get their points, other than pvp and GSF. Come on BW you are going to have to do better than this.

[Heat-Wave]

Regarding conquest, any solution is simply going to favor one group of players over another. Crafting could be reduced to 100 points per item, or made a limit of X per toon/legacy/week, etc. but that doesn't really solve the issue, which is that one playstyle can earn more points per hour than another.

 

One possible option would be to have rotating theme weeks, to give everyone a shot. Some weeks, crafting would be the "way to win", other weeks, PvP would be the "way to win", still others would have PvE as the "way to win".

 

Rather than fight it, give everyone a shot.

 

So week 1 you have repeatable PvE stuff like operations, flashpoints, heroics, world bosses, dailies, weeklies, etc. Crafting and PvP can be there, but they are all 1 time objectives such as "play 10 warzones for 1,000 points", or "complete the warzone weekly for 2,000 points". Crafting could be "make 10 war supplies for 2,000 points" or "make 10 invasion force for 3,000 points".

 

Week 2 you have repeatable PvP objectives, you get 1,000 points for every 10 warzones you win, you get points for every match played, etc. PvE and crafting would be one time objectives.

 

Week 3 is crafting week. PvP and PvE are not repeatable, similar to above, but crafting, have at it...

 

Another option is to specifically setup different planets each week to be focused on something different. Example:

 

Invade Taris this week, crafting free for all, Invade Nar Shaddaa this week, PvP free for all, Invade Ilum this week, PvE free for all. So make items repeatable for specific planets, and rotate which planets are for which repeatables from week to week so over time, everyone gets a shot at every planet with every play style.

 

Of course the above is slightly harder to plan for and program for than the current system, but frankly had it been planed that way from the start, it wouldn't be THAT bad.... And it is a perfect example of how to take care of everyone and not drop the nerf nuke from orbit.

 

----

 

Another point, several people have said that small guilds need their own bracket. Look at boxing, you don't put a lightweight in with a heavyweight, that would be stupid.

 

So why not offer multiple guild sizes? Pro Tip: You can put this in the CM and make money Bioware!.

 

Standard guild would be up to 100 toons, that is free. Large to 500 toons, and Super Unlimited Guild to 2,000 toons.

 

Small groups can complete in the 100 toon class, normal guilds (and those grandfathered) in the 500 toon class, and a new class of 2,000 toon Super Unimited Class. Charge 14,500 CC ($99) for an upgrade to the 2,000 toon Super Unlimited Class and use the $99 (times many guilds) towards a decent server upgrade. Of course this token would be tradable and sellable so if you want to use credits, you can buy it off the GTN.

[Psychopyro]

I have to agree as well and I used to think highly of BW. How can they think nerfing crafting like they did is the answer especially when they haven't given another way for people to get their points, other than pvp and GSF. Come on BW you are going to have to do better than this.

 

BW was fine before EA took over. Anyone who has played any (or tested) EA game knows this is SOP for them. Sadly though it's not just EA, but every publicly traded game company. Gone I think are the days where the gaming companies even bother to listen to players. Just however much money they can suck out of John and Jane Public at this point.

[jojobanutz]

Really? You don't understand how crafting is extremely out of whack with anything else?

 

It's getting nerfed because right now, Conquests are exclusive content to whoever crafts the most. NO OTHER ACTIVITIES can come close. Crafting NEEDED to be reigned in...it's been ruining conquests since it launched. If you refuse to see how simple and obvious the reasons for the nerf are, so be it...but it's clearly obvious to everyone but a handful of folk.

Seriously, just because I and many others disagree with you, does not make us all idiots.

 

There are just as many people in this thread opposing your views with well considered and thoughtful arguments and proposals as there are agreeing with you.

 

I disagree that crafting needed to be reigned in (not that this change to conquests does that, it destroys it completely). What needed to be done was to make the other conquest activities more attractive.

Frankly, this is just another example of how conquest was put into place without proper testing and without enough thought. Rather like the stronghold slot machine, just tossed out without testing. Even a small amount of testing would have show that the original pay rates of that thing were insane. Of course, did they fix it to something reasonable? No, they nerfed it into nothing, I haven't used one since and the 4 on my guild flagship are always empty.

 

Bioware doesn't do middle ground, and that is a shame. SWTOR could be so great, if they had reasonable adults running the place, but frankly lets be honest, watch the streams and you'll know they don't have adults running the place.

Yes, I fully agree, this whole Conquests debacle reminds me very much of the Cartel Slot Machine ugliness.

[Heat-Wave]

Really Aries, telling someone not to be completely useless was something you had to do? Give me a break. I been in groups where people will yell and be jerks because they are like that. I am a medic and I have done hard mode operations and flashpoints with no problems. I have the correct gear and I damn well know what I am doing but yet when I did group finder this happened to me as well. Even my friends, who are tanks are fed up with group finder and the attitudes that are in group finder lately.

 

You do know there are idiots out there in group finder that will be jerks because maybe they "gasp" have to blame someone else. Maybe instead of telling someone they are useless you might want to understand that there are jerks out there in group finder and they might be the problem.

 

That door swings both ways, for what it is worth...

 

Last night I PUGed HM Manaan... The tank was wonderful, nicely geared with about 59k health (yea, that isn't everything, but it is hard to be badly geared with that much health.)

 

I was 51k as a Sniper DPS, the other DPS was a Mara with 42k, mostly 186 basic comms, some blue 172 stuff, 168 PvP relics, etc.

 

You know, we probably COULD have carried the Mara, but I'm really tired of carrying people who don't even bother to try. You're lvl 60, go run Ziost, put the 190 stuff on, it is much better than 186 basics (and the enhancements are better than 192 elite comms gear).

 

After I vote kicked him, the tank commented and said, "thanks, I hate doing that, but I was thinking of leaving, I just PUGed this in HM an hour ago with a healer with 162 and 168 gear on, wiped over and over".

 

I asked, "why in the world did you bother?", to which he replied, "I don't like kicking people, but yea, it was a waste of time".

 

I've seen people show up in 146 gear for HM 60 FP, really, why are you wasting everyone's time? You don't know any better? That's ok, I'm happy to explain gear to you if you don't know, we were all new once.

 

HOWEVER, most of the time I get a "screw you" response, or a "I know what I'm doing, lets just go". Worse, sometimes the crappy player (usually DPS) who showed up with 30k health for a 60 HM runs off and attacks the first mob without anyone else, then says, "what the heck, why aren't you all coming, lets do this S***". He then dies in about 3 sec, then releases to med center, run backs and does THE SAME THING AGAIN. Then he rage quits with more swearing out the door as he goes.

 

That stuff gets old.

[Faardor]

the other DPS was a Mara with 42k, mostly 186 basic comms, some blue 172 stuff, 168 PvP relics, etc.

 

better to judge his stats than his gear tbh. If he had 110% melee accuracy for example I wouldve kept him (or close to)

and if hes not pulling his weight during the first boss (which is really easy to judge) kick him.

Edited September 11, 2015 by Faardor

[TUXs]

Seriously, just because I and many others disagree with you, does not make us all idiots.

 

There are just as many people in this thread opposing your views with well considered and thoughtful arguments and proposals as there are agreeing with you.

 

I disagree that crafting needed to be reigned in (not that this change to conquests does that, it destroys it completely). What needed to be done was to make the other conquest activities more attractive.

I never called you (or anyone) and idiot.

 

And no lol, there's been NO thoughtful argument for keeping it how it is. Anyone being honest about this, can easily see that crafting was outrageously rewarding.

 

Disagree if you like...doesn't make you any more right though.

[Heat-Wave]

better to judge his stats than his gear tbh. If he had 110% melee accuracy for example I wouldve kept him (or close to)

and if hes not pulling his weight during the first boss (which is really easy to judge) kick him.

 

In 186 basic comms gear with 172 blue mods? Hardly...

 

Keep in mind the 42k health was with the high endurance mods...

 

Had it been Tython or Korriban, we'd probably have run it with him, but I'm past wanting to screw around with stuff like that. Go to Ziost, get your 190 gear with good enhancements, and carry on... If you don't, why are you in HM 60 queue?

[Faardor]

In 186 basic comms gear with 172 blue mods? Hardly...

 

Keep in mind the 42k health was with the high endurance mods...

 

Had it been Tython or Korriban, we'd probably have run it with him, but I'm past wanting to screw around with stuff like that. Go to Ziost, get your 190 gear with good enhancements, and carry on... If you don't, why are you in HM 60 queue?

 

42k health is close to where you will end up being in full 186s without augments. so yeah better ot judge his skill and his stats than gear.

[casirabit]

That door swings both ways, for what it is worth...

 

Last night I PUGed HM Manaan... The tank was wonderful, nicely geared with about 59k health (yea, that isn't everything, but it is hard to be badly geared with that much health.)

 

I was 51k as a Sniper DPS, the other DPS was a Mara with 42k, mostly 186 basic comms, some blue 172 stuff, 168 PvP relics, etc.

 

You know, we probably COULD have carried the Mara, but I'm really tired of carrying people who don't even bother to try. You're lvl 60, go run Ziost, put the 190 stuff on, it is much better than 186 basics (and the enhancements are better than 192 elite comms gear).

 

After I vote kicked him, the tank commented and said, "thanks, I hate doing that, but I was thinking of leaving, I just PUGed this in HM an hour ago with a healer with 162 and 168 gear on, wiped over and over".

 

I asked, "why in the world did you bother?", to which he replied, "I don't like kicking people, but yea, it was a waste of time".

 

I've seen people show up in 146 gear for HM 60 FP, really, why are you wasting everyone's time? You don't know any better? That's ok, I'm happy to explain gear to you if you don't know, we were all new once.

 

HOWEVER, most of the time I get a "screw you" response, or a "I know what I'm doing, lets just go". Worse, sometimes the crappy player (usually DPS) who showed up with 30k health for a 60 HM runs off and attacks the first mob without anyone else, then says, "what the heck, why aren't you all coming, lets do this S***". He then dies in about 3 sec, then releases to med center, run backs and does THE SAME THING AGAIN. Then he rage quits with more swearing out the door as he goes.

 

That stuff gets old.

 

Oh I know. When I group up with a tank friend of mine there are times that we have carried people but I don't mind it so much if they are willing to listen to what we say. When I asked please don't stand in those circles and they try then they are listening.

 

I had one DPS when I did one of the hard mode flashpoints go out of his way to be a jerk. I warned him twice if he couldn't work with the group, the next time he pulled the entire room I was going to let him die. He didn't listen, he died. Needless to say he didn't do it again.

 

My problem is until we actually know what a person is like in a group, we should never say they are useless. To me that is rude and uncalled for. Sometimes people on the forums have forgotten we don't know what that other person is like in a group as we haven't ran with them.

 

Why do we do that? Does that make us feel superior to another person or are we acting like jerks? This is part of the reason I don't come to the forums as often.

[Heat-Wave]

42k health is close to where you will end up being in full 186s without augments. so yeah better ot judge his skill and his stats than gear.

 

I wouldn't take a toon in pure 186 comms gear into a HM 60 FP, but maybe that is just me...

 

I either want the 186 crafted mods/enhancements, or Ziost 190 enhancements, or augments and 186 crafted relics, or crafted ears/implants (Mk-2 versions), or some 192 gear.

 

I consider 186 straight basic comms gear to be undergeared for Rakata, Rishi, Blood Hunt, and Manaan HM FP. It is acceptable for Tython and Korriban. Just my personal standards...

 

---

 

Side note to all DPS, even if you have 190/192 in your armor, if your main hand is still 178, or worse, 172, you are still undergeared. A large part of your damage output is the hilt/barrel in your main hand, spend the money to buy a 186 purple on the GTN, or have someone craft you one, it makes a large difference.

[casirabit]

Oh I know. When I group up with a tank friend of mine there are times that we have carried people but I don't mind it so much if they are willing to listen to what we say. When I asked please don't stand in those circles and they try then they are listening.

 

I had one DPS when I did one of the hard mode flashpoints go out of his way to be a jerk. I warned him twice if he couldn't work with the group, the next time he pulled the entire room I was going to let him die. He didn't listen, he died. Needless to say he didn't do it again.

 

My problem is until we actually know what a person is like in a group, we should never say they are useless. To me that is rude and uncalled for. Sometimes people on the forums have forgotten we don't know what that other person is like in a group as we haven't ran with them.

 

Why do we do that? Does that make us feel superior to another person or are we acting like jerks? This is part of the reason I don't come to the forums as often.

 

Anyways back on topic:

 

Maybe BW will add some interesting conquests for everyone this time, including the ones that are leveling characters so they can be part of it.. (Not holding my breath)

[Psychopyro]

I wouldn't take a toon in pure 186 comms gear into a HM 60 FP, but maybe that is just me...

 

Yes, but the problem is, that is what we are supposed to do by design. Run regular FPs to get Basic Comms to buy 186 gear to do HM FPs to progress to operations... But that is going to get me into the how horrible BW/EA is a actually testing how they plan on things progressing and how they actually test...

 

But at this point, it's still not the topic at hand.

[tmwfte]

None of it suggests that they're even touching them.

 

So them directly saying that they're turning the story mode flashpoints into tacticals and scaling up the hard mode flashpoints makes you think that they're not touching them. Okay...

[Faardor]

I wouldn't take a toon in pure 186 comms gear into a HM 60 FP, but maybe that is just me...

 

I either want the 186 crafted mods/enhancements, or Ziost 190 enhancements, or augments and 186 crafted relics, or crafted ears/implants (Mk-2 versions), or some 192 gear.

 

I consider 186 straight basic comms gear to be undergeared for Rakata, Rishi, Blood Hunt, and Manaan HM FP. It is acceptable for Tython and Korriban. Just my personal standards...

 

---

 

Side note to all DPS, even if you have 190/192 in your armor, if your main hand is still 178, or worse, 172, you are still undergeared. A large part of your damage output is the hilt/barrel in your main hand, spend the money to buy a 186 purple on the GTN, or have someone craft you one, it makes a large difference.

 

172, 178 and 186 a mix of those regardless of optimized or not / augmented or not is good enough for any HM flashpoint with the exception of blood hunt unless the player knows what hes doing (i.e rotation)

 

Rakata: no hard bosses, just explain mechanics such as cleansing the fire immobilization and to stay away from people / jakarro if they have circles.

Rishi: stand under shield, kill all bosses at the same time unless you think your healer can heal through it.

Manaan: Explain mechanics, first boss can be an issue if he gets to shot gun too long but if the tank can juggle the grapples onto the boss then the down time from that shouldn't make it hard on the healer. Rest of the flashpoint is just stay outta stupid, hug tank and drag under fire, easy peasy.

Tython: stay outta stupid and designate corners, easy peasy.

Korriban: Stay outta stupid, pop and buffs / offensive CDs during his soft enrage, dont hug eachother otherwise laser zaps both. Not that hard.

Edited September 11, 2015 by Faardor

[Heat-Wave]

Yes, but the problem is, that is what we are supposed to do by design. Run regular FPs to get Basic Comms to buy 186 gear to do HM FPs to progress to operations... But that is going to get me into the how horrible BW/EA is a actually testing how they plan on things progressing and how they actually test...

 

But at this point, it's still not the topic at hand.

 

I agree with you that is the intent, but it isn't how it works out in reality...

 

You should also be augmenting your toons, using credits from leveling, dailies, etc. A toon in pure 186 basic comms with a full set of augments is just fine by me. The augments at lvl 60 make a world of difference in HM FP.

[Heat-Wave]

172, 178 and 186 a mix of those regardless of optimized or not / augmented or not is good enough for any HM flashpoint with the exception of blood hunt unless the player knows what hes doing (i.e rotation)

 

The min gear rating for the HM FP is 178, but that is the same number for Korriban (the easiest) as it is for Blood Hunt.

 

Regardless, while it of course can be done with 4 toons in 178 gear, there is just no need to do it, unless you want a personal challenge (and if you do, find friends to do it with please, don't use GF).

 

If memory serves, the gear rating for HM 55 back pre-3.0 was 148, but if you took 4 people in 148 without augments, those were a kick in the teeth as well.

 

Perhaps it just depends on how "hard" you want your HM FP to be.

 

---

 

It is also worth noting that there is "what is good enough" and what is "expected". If everyone else shows up in 186/190/192 gear with augments and you show up in 172/178/186 without augments, then what you're really saying is, "I'm too lazy and cheap to do any better, please carry me".

 

I actually have had someone say, "I'm too cheap and lazy to do that", when I tried to explain augments. He said, "oh, I know what they are, but I can't be bothered".

 

Yea, I vote kicked him.

[The-Kaitou-Kid]

42k health is close to where you will end up being in full 186s without augments. so yeah better ot judge his skill and his stats than gear.

 

As they mentioned, though, he was using endurance heavy mods so saying it's close to where you'd be in full 186 is somewhat misleading. If you were in full 186 endurance heavy gear you'd probably have more than 42k HP, and in their gear level if they'd been in main stat or power/crit heavy mods they wouldn't have had 42k HP.

 

For example, my Sorcerer currently has 39k HP in mostly full 178 (Relics included), with Earpiece and Implants being 186. She's a DPS spec though, and she even has an augment in one of her relics that boosts her HP up a bit.

 

Also note that, in this scenario, that HP comes at the cost of damage output because they're losing mainstat/power in lieu of endurance when it should be the other way around. So them having 42k HP actually kinda makes it worse as it means their DPS stats would be even worse than would have if they were using the mainstat/power heavy mods.

 

I don't even really disagree with you in practice, as it should be more than gear level that decides things (usually), but in this instance there seems to be more to it than gear level based upon their HP. They don't meet the gear rating and their stats are poorly distributed. I don't know if I'd kick them or not, depends on the group I guess, but I can't fault somebody for kicking them with the knowledge we have on the situation.

[TravelersWay]

Really? You don't understand how crafting is extremely out of whack with anything else?

 

It's getting nerfed because right now, Conquests are exclusive content to whoever crafts the most. NO OTHER ACTIVITIES can come close. Crafting NEEDED to be reigned in...it's been ruining conquests since it launched. If you refuse to see how simple and obvious the reasons for the nerf are, so be it...but it's clearly obvious to everyone but a handful of folk.

 

Indeed. It's clear that conquests were poorly thought out to begin with when the only apparent option for small guilds to compete is one thing - which in this case happens to be crafting. The fact that people here are complaining that they can no longer compete in conquests if crafting gets nerfed is the exact reason why crafting should be nerfed. However, as many people also pointed out, crafting stills needs to remain a viable option along with all other options, and additional changes should have been implemented to ensure this instead of just the nerf to individual points and crafting.

 

What BioWare should do is change the system so that if people prefer certain elements of the game over the others, they can do those elements and still reach their personal goals. However, in order for guilds to win their goals, all activities should need to be performed, with diminishing returns to prevent one activity from being performed more than others (i.e. continual crafting rewards less and less points the more it is done, while doing a bit of each activity rewards maximum points).

 

A better implementation would have been to allow for a variety of activities to be included in every conquest event, and not have the size of the guild dependent upon the successful completion of those events.

Edited September 11, 2015 by TravelersWay