Conquest Changes in Fallen Empire

[LydMekk]

KotFE promises to be a crappier deployment than 2015 roadmap, GSF, contraband slot machine, and 3.0 Ravagers exploit while devs go on Christmas vacation, combined.

 

I would laugh (Good post!) if it isn't lining up to be true...

[dscount]

I would laugh (Good post!) if it isn't lining up to be true...

 

I really don't want it to fail, but the lack of information just makes it seem they have a giant turd burger waiting for us on Oct 20th. Conquest is likely NOT going to change any until they have 6+ months of DATA saying the same thing we have been telling them for months about issues. Sadly it's likely to fail if they don't make some minor tweaks.

[FerkWork]

Thank you for this change BW it's the greatest thing 4.0 will bring us. I'm so happy for this.

[Kalfear]

I would laugh (Good post!) if it isn't lining up to be true...

 

Only reason I havent hit the cancel button already is EA has a proven true record in this game of reversing decisions when there is a big enough outcry

 

and their been a big enough outcry on this one

 

so I hope you are right

 

but the day these changes take effect is the day I shut down my account

 

This just the final nail in a long list of nails for me.

 

But still holding out hope they reverse choice and either leave as is or actually take some of our suggestions (in this very thread) and come to a proper middle ground adjustment.

 

PS: But sadly I'm not holding out to much hope. Figure I'll end up cancelling and just keep watch to see if they make some changes that will enhance the game over all.

 

I will not do the GSF with out joystick control

and

I will not do the crappy version of pvp they currently have

 

So if they going to force those on people for conquest

welp better games out there to play.

 

Speaking of which, back to Civ Beyond Earth!

[TUXs]

AND that is the SAD part.. we have to goto THIRD PARTY to find out what the game is going to be doing. WHY?

 

I'm sorry.. this is just silly how KoTFE is just turning into a tap dancing boondoggle and leads me to believe it's going to be a crapper deployment than 2015 roadmap and GSF combined.

Spot on. After seeing last weeks Mando/Merc changes, I can see why they're keeping their mouths shut...it's apparent they don't understand their own freaking game.

[idnewton]

Spot on. After seeing last weeks Mando/Merc changes, I can see why they're keeping their mouths shut...it's apparent they don't understand their own freaking game.

 

I think their plan is to release the really controversial information as late as possible (or not at all) so that theorycrafters won't have a chance to fully understand and publicize the implications. By that time, it will be too late, and most players will have already started playing the xpac with pre-subscribe rewards, and feel obligated to keep playing. Essentially, I think they're saving the worst news until they catch as many players in their net as they can, in order to mitigate the fallout as much as possible. It's kinda brilliant, but only if you view the game as a source of profit, not as a chance to make a good game. Unfortunately, seems they would rather make poor decision and run damage control than make smart decisions to begin with.

 

 

PS: Also, inb4 someone says "oh no they want to make money off their product". Yes, BioWare is a business and they should focus on making money, but there's something to be said for the long-term benefits of satisfying your customers. Between broken promises, blatant lies and tricky manipulation (withholding information until the point at which most won't do anything about it), people are going to start to realize how BW is using them, and the fallout will be bad.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

PS: Also, inb4 someone says "oh no they want to make money off their product". Yes, BioWare is a business and they should focus on making money, but there's something to be said for the long-term benefits of satisfying your customers. Between broken promises, blatant lies and tricky manipulation (withholding information until the point at which most won't do anything about it), people are going to start to realize how BW is using them, and the fallout will be bad.

 

Or the majority of people will just be like "wow that was a cool story and fun, can't wait for the next chapters oh and look I can actually get into PUGG/GF groups for these operation things now, think I'll give those a go" and carry on their merry little way doing the 100's of hours of content already in the game keeping them occupied.

[idnewton]

Or the majority of people will just be like "wow that was a cool story and fun, can't wait for the next chapters oh and look I can actually get into PUGG/GF groups for these operation things now, think I'll give those a go" and carry on their merry little way doing the 100's of hours of content already in the game keeping them occupied.

 

True, and in their position I would do the same. Unfortunately I was in their position a year ago. Now I really don't have much to do except enjoy the Star Wars aspect of the game and do the occasional weekend raid with the people I used to enjoy fun content with. I have over 3000 hours of gametime. There's just not much left for me to do/enjoy/prove. I'll still continue to sub, most likely, but I don't know for how long. To anyone who hasn't maintained an uninterrupted subscription since prelaunch, there's still plenty to do. However, since I have, I've simply run out of content. Playing the market is fun, but you really only need to succeed once or twice, and you're set. Granted I could continue and maneuver my way to 1b, but I'd rather be playing another game with another market system, and using some creativity to dominate a new economy.

[idnewton]

Conquest is likely NOT going to change any until they have 6+ months of DATA saying the same thing we have been telling them for months about issues.

 

So true.

[EMitch]

I read this the first day and came back to see if there was a bioware post. I am a little disappointed that there has been none. With these changes players like me will most likely not be able to reach their personal goals. I can not be on every day and while I do PVP I can not become a slave to it. I already spend a lot of time trying to get personal goals on several of my toons, with gathering mats running OPS, PVP and everything else.

 

These changes will make it easier for pure PVP guilds to win all the time. It is already being done on the Harb.

[TUXs]

These changes will make it easier for pure PVP guilds to win all the time. It is already being done on the Harb.

LOL! Wait a minute...are you claiming that PURE PvP guilds are currently winning Conquests on the Harbinger? No crafting...just pure PvP right?

 

Sorry Mitch...that's simply untrue. PvP simply can't even pretend to complete with crafting right now. Sure, it's repeatable, but it doesn't hold a candle to crafting.

[dscount]

LOL! Wait a minute...are you claiming that PURE PvP guilds are currently winning Conquests on the Harbinger? No crafting...just pure PvP right?

 

Sorry Mitch...that's simply untrue. PvP simply can't even pretend to complete with crafting right now. Sure, it's repeatable, but it doesn't hold a candle to crafting.

 

Right now MOSTLY PVP based guilds are winning for a combination of reasons. First being crafting (Duh), but the second is they are PVP guilds. So how does that HELP that crafting is removed (Mostly) from the conquesting? It doesn't, just means that those guilds that have a LOT of PVP guilds will remain in the top 10 spots without crafting. Even with lower overall points due to the rapid drop in crafting points.

 

Again.. for the record this is just a terrible knee jerk reaction and I wish BW would jump into the conversation.

[TUXs]

Again.. for the record this is just a terrible knee jerk reaction and I wish BW would jump into the conversation.

Knee jerk? Conquests have been monopolized by crafting since they were released...nothing knee jerk about this at all. This is LOOOOOOOOOONG overdue.

 

I agree, I wish Bioware would discuss this more with us, but this was a change that needed to happen.

[dscount]

Knee jerk? Conquests have been monopolized by crafting since they were released...nothing knee jerk about this at all. This is LOOOOOOOOOONG overdue.

 

I agree, I wish Bioware would discuss this more with us, but this was a change that needed to happen.

 

Knee jerk as in not providing a more PVE friendly version of conquest options. Right now crafting is WAY overdue for a change is agreed by everyone, but not increasing the repeatable options for PVE beyond GSF/PVP is just wrong.

[lanawinst]

Knee jerk as in not providing a more PVE friendly version of conquest options. Right now crafting is WAY overdue for a change is agreed by everyone, but not increasing the repeatable options for PVE beyond GSF/PVP is just wrong.

 

I agree. While I'd rather just craft, I can understand the need to nerd crafting. What I don't get is to make conquests only relevant for people /guilds who do GSF/PVP.

 

But also, without crafting, the only repeatable and soloable PVE thing available is just gone. I thought their goal was to draw more people to conquests, not restrict it further... I don't get it. On one hand, they'll make the FP more accessible to everyone by making them soloable but on the other hand they make the personal target goal in conquests impossible to solo, something that was doable before.

Edited September 23, 2015 by lanawinst

[TUXs]

I agree. While I'd rather just craft, I can understand the need to nerd crafting. What I don't get is to make conquests only relevant for people /guilds who do GSF/PVP.

 

But also, without crafting, the only repeatable and soloable PVE thing available is just gone. I thought their goal was to draw more people to conquests, not restrict it further... I don't get it. On one hand, they'll make the FP more accessible to everyone by making them soloable but on the other hand they make the personal target goal in conquests impossible to solo, something that was doable before.

THIS, we agree on! Repeatable PvE things are needed...I completely agree. I even want crafting to be viable for personal goals...but the way Crafting WAS, needed to go.

[TUXs]

Knee jerk as in not providing a more PVE friendly version of conquest options. Right now crafting is WAY overdue for a change is agreed by everyone, but not increasing the repeatable options for PVE beyond GSF/PVP is just wrong.

I agree with you.

[pooks]

Personal goal - just let us craft enough for personal goal each week.

 

I think the issue devs don't like is the massive crafting bombs 1 player can manage with 16 alts in their guild like one guild I know of. This one player carries the whole guild when they want to take a planet.

 

I'm fine with just allowing us to just get our personals with crafting.

[Kalfear]

Personal goal - just let us craft enough for personal goal each week.

 

I think the issue devs don't like is the massive crafting bombs 1 player can manage with 16 alts in their guild like one guild I know of. This one player carries the whole guild when they want to take a planet.

 

I'm fine with just allowing us to just get our personals with crafting.

 

ohohohohoh that would be me

 

heheh Probably not who you meant but I do that

I know a Imp guy that blows my numbers away but his guild feeds mats to him so its really not a solo experience

I do my numbers completely solo, gather my own mats and everything

 

and I would be perfectly fine with being allowed to only hit personal goal with crafting

Though I think a more fair way to do it is to just take the current crafting design and half it (to a minimum of 250 per war supply)

 

So weeks where war supplies worth 1500 (500x2 for planet+ 500 x bonus % = 1000+500 = 1500) half it. Remove the x2 planetary bonus, make the base amount 250 so its 500+250 rather then 1000+500

 

If they halved the crafting totals, ALLOT of players would shift to PVE and yes PVP and GSF rather then gather/buy the required mats

 

There is a reason on weeks where the crafting is 250 you see planets being won with under million points.

Big numbers when crafting at a 250 base is freaking painful and mat intensive

[TUXs]

There is a reason on weeks where the crafting is 250 you see planets being won with under million points.

Big numbers when crafting at a 250 base is freaking painful and mat intensive

Really? Being WON with under 1 million points? Aside from 2 dying PvP servers, no place was won with under a million. Take a look for yourself...http://www.swtorconquest.com/

 

15.2 million, even cut in half, is ludicrous. Crafting needed to be nerfed BIG TIME! Not made worthless...but drastically nerfed. Halving it wouldn't cut it.

[Transcendent]

I think the general gist of things is that if they're going to be making crafting heavily reduced in terms of conquest points available, as well as the other changes, they need to expand the available options beyond what is currently available (not just the PvE options either.....).

 

There is plenty in the game, but they need to cater for all of the players, not just a select few.

[Muljo_Stpho]

I think the general gist of things is that if they're going to be making crafting heavily reduced in terms of conquest points available, as well as the other changes, they need to expand the available options beyond what is currently available (not just the PvE options either.....).

 

There is plenty in the game, but they need to cater for all of the players, not just a select few.

 

As I've said in a bunch of different topics now, I think that new/revised mission terminals and making use of dailies / weeklies from various terminals on repeatable conquest objectives to enforce per character limits (100% replacing all "once per legacy" conquest objectives because that crap is just plain horrible) would go a very very long way towards doing what you say.

 

Add a mission terminal on every planet. Fill it with dailies and weeklies for various types of on-planet activity (like rampage missions for both specific regions and the planet as a whole, a target list mission which asks for the champions mentioned in a planetary achievement, a mission for the world boss, missions for assaulting the other faction's base (guard kills, commander kills), missions asking for completion of heroics, missions for PVP kills on the planet, and new missions themed around setting up defenses / securing routes for supply lines / delivering supplies to forward bases / gathering reconnaissance on enemy positions / etc.) Instead of having 1-2 objectives rewarding points for heroics on 1-2 of the 3-5 planets covered in a conquest week, they should have an objective for every planet covered that week and the objective should call for completion of any mission from the planet's conquest mission terminal. This will establish a solid basis for conquest of a planet as actually having something to do with that planet, since of course guilds will get a bonus (maybe always make it x3?) on the objective for activity on their chosen planet.

 

For dailies zones that are covered by conquests. They can have something like this conquest terminal added in as well, but the objective needs to award points for missions from both that terminal and the zone's dailies terminal.

 

I've also described a terminal like this for crafting. The idea is that there would be missions calling for specific numbers of one type of object or another (quantities scaled against material and time costs of the item, cheaper item = need to craft more of them, expensive item = don't need to craft as many of them) and then the primary point earner for crafting in a non-crafting week would be points for completion of any misssion on the terminal. These missions could cover war supplies, prefab kits, dark projects, and hopefully even gear and modifications (both separated out by tiers based on grade of materials used) as well. But there would be an effective cap on earnings per character based on the number of missions available and the value of the objective. They could optionally supplement this with a repeatable generic objective (preferably counting a lot more than just war supplies) with a very low point value per item (either the objective itself is worth very little (like 25 points maybe) or it requires a count of 30 items for each completion of the objective). And then the two crafting weeks would offer the repeatable 250 point per specific-item objectives in addition to this.

 

GSF should have its own terminal separate from the warzones terminal. Both terminals should feature additional dailies and weeklies beyond the current "complete this many battles" missions. These new missions could include objectives like getting a certain number of kills against each possible class of opponent / starfighter, getting a certain number of kills as a specific class of starfighter, completing a certain number of matches in each game mode, completing a certain number of matches in each map, earning a certain number of medals, etc. And then the big point earners for both warzones and starfighter become objectives that call for completion of any mission on these terminals, but of course the repeatable points per match would remain (not necessarily at the same value) to supplement this. During a week where warzones specifically are meant to be the main attraction for the week, triple the point values (before bonuses) of the two warzone objectives from where they would normally be. Likewise, when GSF is meant to be the main attraction for a week, triple the value (before bonuses) of its two objectives.

 

Possibly add an objective awarding points for the solo space missions (points for completion of any mission from the fleet command terminal on the class ships). I don't expect that it would be many points, but it would be one more thing that players would have the option to do. I would also suggest specific objectives added unique to each conquest week that specifically reward extra points for the space missions which send you to the same regions of the galaxy as that week's target planets. The core objective (points for terminal missions) can probably also be doubled or tripled in the same weeks when GSF is the main attraction.

 

An objective for flashpoints should award points for completion of any mission from the priority terminal (just like an objective for operations already rewards points for completion of any mission from the operations terminal). I would also suggest completely revamping the format of objectives for specific flashpoints and operations to reward points per boss kill so that they can be made repeatable without opening the door for the exploit practiced in Battle of Ilum and False Emperor that one week (and closing the door on current operation lockout abuse). They might be able to build in extra rewards for higher difficulty into this new format. (Objective calls for any boss kill and has a counter 0/1. Just let hard/nightmare mode kills count x2. In other words, the objective will trigger twice for each boss in the higher difficulty.) As with the previous ideas, when flashpoints are the main attraction the base value of their terminal objective would be tripled and when operations are the main attraction that would apply for their terminal.

 

Conquest weeks themed around events need to do a lot more to integrate with those events. Make it so that Death Mark has something to award points for completing bounties. Make it so that the Rakghoul and Gree weeks each have something to award points for every daily completed. Create rampage dailies (not "once per legacy" objectives, actual missions) for kills in the event areas. Do something extra beyond just having a "once per legacy" objective for the operations boss. (Speaking of which, that can be made repeatable so that it's open to all characters. The fight itself is on a weekly lockout for each character anyway.) And event activities should have fairly high value since "being the main attraction that week" should be the default status for them.

Edited September 23, 2015 by Muljo_Stpho

[well]

ohohohohoh that would be me

 

heheh Probably not who you meant but I do that

I know a Imp guy that blows my numbers away but his guild feeds mats to him so its really not a solo experience

I do my numbers completely solo, gather my own mats and everything

 

and I would be perfectly fine with being allowed to only hit personal goal with crafting

Though I think a more fair way to do it is to just take the current crafting design and half it (to a minimum of 250 per war supply)

 

So weeks where war supplies worth 1500 (500x2 for planet+ 500 x bonus % = 1000+500 = 1500) half it. Remove the x2 planetary bonus, make the base amount 250 so its 500+250 rather then 1000+500

 

If they halved the crafting totals, ALLOT of players would shift to PVE and yes PVP and GSF rather then gather/buy the required mats

 

There is a reason on weeks where the crafting is 250 you see planets being won with under million points.

Big numbers when crafting at a 250 base is freaking painful and mat intensive

 

You can't explain that to them. They have all the answers. They been keeping track of every server. Some Guilds can really go to town but that isn't everyone. They just assume since they think it is so it must be so.

Edited September 24, 2015 by well

[Kalfear]

You can't explain that to them. They have all the answers. They been keeping track of every server. Some Guilds can really go to town but that isn't everyone. They just assume since they think it is so it must be so.

 

yup, I'm not going to argue with people cheering the nerf with out having a clue on the dedication or time it takes to do these runs.

 

They will never agree because they want their play style to be the dominant one.

 

Me, just cancelling account when 4.0 drops if the changes go into effect.

 

I can wait a few months until EA reverses the change to try and attract back the lost subscribers (like they always do)

 

I will not be forced into the sub par PVP of this game

Will not play GSF with out joy stick control

the flash point change long over due (by years) but that alone (or combined with 1 hour a month of new single player story line) is not enough to fill the huge gap left by all the gutted content .

 

But hey, they might not wanna wait to many months before revising attitude cause when Fall Out 4 and Deus Ex 4 drop and are playable, SW:TOR will have a hard time competing with those single player games that will take 100+ hours each (think I have 250 hours into New Vegas and Deus Ex : Human Revolution easily matches that time played.). 1 hour a month of ultra easy single player content in SW:TOR will not even remotely compare.

[well]

yup, I'm not going to argue with people cheering the nerf with out having a clue on the dedication or time it takes to do these runs.

 

They will never agree because they want their play style to be the dominant one.

 

Me, just cancelling account when 4.0 drops if the changes go into effect.

 

I can wait a few months until EA reverses the change to try and attract back the lost subscribers (like they always do)

 

I will not be forced into the sub par PVP of this game

Will not play GSF with out joy stick control

the flash point change long over due (by years) but that alone (or combined with 1 hour a month of new single player story line) is not enough to fill the huge gap left by all the gutted content .

 

But hey, they might not wanna wait to many months before revising attitude cause when Fall Out 4 and Deus Ex 4 drop and are playable, SW:TOR will have a hard time competing with those single player games that will take 100+ hours each (think I have 250 hours into New Vegas and Deus Ex : Human Revolution easily matches that time played.). 1 hour a month of ultra easy single player content in SW:TOR will not even remotely compare.

 

It doesn't hurt to try. I am looking at Sword Coast Legends myself. The extremes in nerfing because of players with a agenda gets old.