Player Review: Now That "The Shiny" has Worn Off

[Apax]

I always find it funny how people compare **** to WoW, while WoW is a amalgamation of every single other MMO that was out there.

Rogue mechanics? stolen from DaoC

Questing Mechanics? AC

Mage Mechanics etc etc EQ.

 

I can go on and on and on, but this kinda debunks least one of your points about the tiredsome same ol same ol MMO gameplay..

 

You just don't get it. 12+ million people have played WoW, compared to the few hundred thousand that played any one of the other MMOs you mentioned. That isn't to say those other games weren't any good, but they just weren't as popular.

 

Understanding that, why would you ever say "This mechanic plays just like it does in DAoC" when attempting to give a reference? Very few people will know what you're talking about compared to the number that will understand the reference had you just said "This mechanic plays just like it does in WoW" instead.

 

Hate on WoW as much as you want, but at least gamers are generally going to know what you're talking about when you compare something to it. Nobody is ever going to accuse Blizzard of being revolutionary, but they are usually good at taking existing concepts and improving upon them.

 

I don't care who designed mechanic-X first. I just care who implements it best.

[Darka]

People hear a monetary amount and so how attach this massive expectation to it because its a lot of money, yet they do not know the costings of work, nor what they really want that sum spent on.

The cost of the game should not be considered over anything, its used as a weak excuse for players who felt the game didnt do what they thought it would do.

[Jxspyder]

I'm enjoying the game myself, but let's be serious here - this argument is ridiculously flawed. Each industry builds on the successes (and failures) of their competition, even when breaking into new markets. There is a difference between polish (which TOR seems to have) and features we've come to expect as 'standard'.

 

Let's make it a car analogy. There's no way I could start a company, build a car that's roughly on par in features and quality with the 1986 Hyundai Excel - Hyundai's entry into the US market - and charge the same as say, a 2012 Ford Focus. I mean, I guess you'd be happy to buy it? If so, I have a 1986 Hyundai Excel - err, I mean a 2012 tNok Superba - to sell for you for $16,000.

 

Keep in mind 25 years is 25% of the time cars have been available to the general public, vs. WoW's 7 years - roughly 50% of the time MMOs have been available to the general public.

 

I could make an analogy that has nothing to do with your point and prove you false too. It's really very simple. His entire arguement could be summed up with the line you quite clearly glossed over and ignored in your rush to argue.

 

"I find you expectancy of any MMO to just come out to have as much, and or, more content then another MMO that has been out for the past 7 years to be ridonkulous"

 

Content. His arguement is perfectly sound. You're just trying to disprove it with an opinion that has no relevance to the point he's making. You're comparing the content of 5 years worth of development to the content of 13 years worth of development. Obviously there's going to be a disparity in actual content available.

 

That being said, you've got 15 different flashpoints, with each faction having access to 12. Then you have heroic versions of them all, giving you 12 end-game instances. 2 raids. 4 PvP instances. At least 2 dedicated world PvP zones.

 

That's quite a bit of content for a game at launch.

[hirath]

My experience in this game has been a level 40 something imperial agent and just a myriad of other lower level everything (and 4 months in beta). Okay, first thing we see in the game (and this is a major blah for me) - The Character Creation. It is absolutely dreadful. Obviously its not on the level of suckiness that you see in your average F 2 P Korean Grindfest, but not by alot, especially if you've played any Bioware game in the past. There are only 4 body types for men, and they are each varying degrees of awful to meh. Theres Shape 1, which is Justin Beiber (and what is used for "kids") Shape 2 which is your average Bruce Lee build, theres Shape 3 which is Big Mc Large Huge and Shape 4 which is Lord Lard ***. Shape 4 is absolutely awful, and for Sith Warriors, is the shape of your Master, which, if you look at his Wiki, is not how he should look at all. It makes no sense.

 

The races are...well...everything is just "Human-like". Obviously this was done for cutscenes and voices (No wookie would talk like your character) but there are still races like Togruta or Nautolan that would be fine but are not in. Chiss are pretty sweet however. There is no long hair, at best you have hair that goes down to your chin. I guess this is because it would be too graphics intensive? Complexions and Scars aren't so bad, shame you can't stack them. And yes, no sliders still, you choose predetermined faces. For a game where you spend alot of time looking at your character in cutscenes, the amount of corner cutting in CC is disappointing. It should have been one of the top five priorities. The number of unique models in this game, NPC wise is also staggeringly low.

 

The graphics were no doubt simplified to accommodate as many systems as possible, like World of Warcraft, I understand that. But if that is the case, why does the game, for me and so many others run like absolute crap? I understand its an MMO but this is just inexcusable

 

Okay, gameplay. Know World of Warcraft? Good news! You already know how to play 85% of the game! Played KOTOR only? Bad news! Theres basically nothing from KOTOR in this that warrants mention. Its your standard MMO affair. Tanks, Heals, DPS, Burst Damage, DOT, Taunts, Rotations, ETC. If you're used to MMOs then you're in luck. It does that pretty well, although tanking as my Jedi Guardian has been a fittingly in character practice in patience. You dont get your first taunt until 15, and it has a long cool down. Your robot companion tanks better than you. The gameplay is the same tired WoW gameplay but with a combat delay which makes it worse, and the game suffers big time for it.

 

The missions are the biggest flaw in this game. Every quest is a variation of "Go here, kill stuff along the way for bonus maybe, kill boss or interact with object" or "Collect 5 blah blah blah" with varying degrees of logic in their drops,. All the flavor in the world, which does help a little, doesn't change the fact that is every quest. But maybe that is nit picking. Your choices in quests rarely matter as well. Story is this game's real saving grace, and why it goes from "Mediocre MMO" to "has potential." Imperial Agent's story was a freaking blast, but after you finish all the storylines, if you even do that... what next? Endgame in this game is pretty much non-existent. One or two mediocre raids... And yes, Bioware continues the proud tradition of Dark Side = Stupid Evil Jerk. I was hoping DS Jedi Knight would mean "Emotional and prideful" but nope, just "AHAHA LOOK HOW EVIL I AM FOR NO REASON".

 

Another issue is every faction goes through the same planet order. Your Bounty Hunter and Sith Warrior's planets after the first one will be the exact same experience as will the quests - save for your personal class quests. This will make replay value for someone like me who can't stand doing the same thing again very difficult. Also this makes the whole "KOTOR 3-11" claim a total farce. Class storylines are only 20% of the game. Everyone shares about 80% and one of the best features I would list was removed.. Your armor could be matched to the color of whatever your chest piece was, avoiding clown armor. They removed that...

 

All in all ,the story of this game is pretty good and had me hooked for the first 2 weeks. Sadly, the gameplay made it where it was a chore. I was FORCING MYSELF THROUGH GAMEPLAY for the story. That's unacceptable for an MMO where gameplay should always be important. Maybe this game will improve in the future but for now, this game is just another WoW clone, in space, with kinda cool cut scenes, and with a lot less real content.

The painful UI issues...Cant search the AH, bad UI with no customization, search filtering doesn't work on menus, no dual spec, and respec is EXPENSIVE. There are just so many features you should expect missing. It attempts to be like WoW, without the things that made WoW popular. It just has neat storylines. But that is all it brings to the table and I'm terribly upset that the reply value and long-term hook does not seem to be in place at all. This means 30 to 60 days and a lot will lose interest.

 

I understand that many will not like this review but you need to look at this without being subjective. I'm saying that for $100,000,000+ dollars that has been spent on this game it does not come close to the graphics of AOC, the gameplay of WOW, the UI of RIFT, the customization of WOWs UI, the innovation of EVE, the PVP of Shadowbane or DAOC, and the story of LOTRO.

 

Well said.

[Jxspyder]

WoW had the smoothest gameplay of any MMO ever, that's what it offered. What does this game?

 

Since when? WoW vet from launch through Cataclysm. Try again.

 

 

Seeing as they've been working on it, for 6yrs...

 

Compared to the game that's been doing the same for 13?

Edited December 26, 2011 by Jxspyder

[Turando]

And yes, Bioware continues the proud tradition of Dark Side = Stupid Evil Jerk. I was hoping DS Jedi Knight would mean "Emotional and prideful" but nope, just "AHAHA LOOK HOW EVIL I AM FOR NO REASON". .

 

Hit the nail on the head here. I have absolutely loved this game, but this is part of the reason I won't play dark side because of the "moral" choices that are dark side are over-the-top maniacal. I far prefer your idea of an "emotional and prideful" dark jedit or dare I say it, gray jedi (ghast!)

[Jigss]

Very much agree with this as a level 44 BH i am already getting bored with the questing in this game and doing it only to further the story. Tried pvp and the amount of lag and unresponsive gameplay i got was surprising.

 

Not to mention all the bugs which actually hurt my gameplay at times(All MMOs have bugs but many are able to put out a smooth gameplay experience at release). I wanted to try SWTOR as a filler for GW2(maybe even do both since one wont have a sub fee) since that just went into closed beta and looks to come out sometime next year. However i may just drop SWTOR now and move back to Eve or Rift.

 

Besides the story which i do find interesting but nowhere near the quality and depth of some other games ( be it these games are not MMOs so i wont include them) I don't find any reason to keep playing.

[jarjarloves]

You sir are truly kidding yourself! LMAO!

 

Guise, my pinto is faster than a Ferrari heheh

 

rofl AoC is a Ferrari??? that sir is funny

[riamri]

Look i have been playing mmos senice i was little i beta tested ragna rock in late middle school then went on to pay to play ( via some begging to my dad to ues his credit card online for a game) senice then i have played alot of mmos including 7 years of wow.

Wow is a great game but it has killed the MMO market no one wants to put the cash in building a long term mmo any more becuse wow will just take your ideas and first mistake you make they jump ship back to wow. This game is the first game that i think may for lack of better words bring balnce to the mmo community. BW seems to be willing to go the distance with this one i just hope people give it an honest shot.

I dont want it to kill wow i loved that game even wrath and cata but its gotten stail and the raids are too easy for my taste ( probly becuse i have 7 years of practices not the games to easy). This game has buggs ( AH may be the worst lay out ever lol) but dispite the wining they are acting fast at fixing bugs and adding what players want ( not the board posters they seem to be largly 12 year olds or people who should go to anger mangment) but for this to happen they need to hold people for more then 3 months. It was a good launch now to raipidly start expanding end/casual content.

[Wiggletphyre]

Best graphics in an MMO yet? Guild Wars 2

 

Good (hopefully excellent on release) gameplay and extremely innovative combat (can block, dodge, combine with other classes for additional affect or even enviroment elements)? Guild Wars 2

 

Decent UI on release? Guild Wars 2

 

Comlete innovation in PvE enviroment (voice acted, no text AND no collect 5 quests, 1500+ quests of full player interaction with enviroment and other players)? Guild Wars 2

 

Epic WvWvW PvP and a real competitive arena PvP too? Guild Wars 2

 

 

 

What's the problem, OP?

 

Can you please tell me how you build that time machine?

[Asuka]

My experience in this game has been a level 40 something imperial agent and just a myriad of other lower level everything (and 4 months in beta). Okay, first thing we see in the game (and this is a major blah for me) - The Character Creation. It is absolutely dreadful. Obviously its not on the level of suckiness that you see in your average F 2 P Korean Grindfest, but not by alot, especially if you've played any Bioware game in the past. There are only 4 body types for men, and they are each varying degrees of awful to meh. Theres Shape 1, which is Justin Beiber (and what is used for "kids") Shape 2 which is your average Bruce Lee build, theres Shape 3 which is Big Mc Large Huge and Shape 4 which is Lord Lard ***. Shape 4 is absolutely awful, and for Sith Warriors, is the shape of your Master, which, if you look at his Wiki, is not how he should look at all. It makes no sense.

 

BioWare's known for this type of character creation. It shouldn't be a surprise.

 

The races are...well...everything is just "Human-like". Obviously this was done for cutscenes and voices (No wookie would talk like your character) but there are still races like Togruta or Nautolan that would be fine but are not in. Chiss are pretty sweet however. There is no long hair, at best you have hair that goes down to your chin. I guess this is because it would be too graphics intensive? Complexions and Scars aren't so bad, shame you can't stack them. And yes, no sliders still, you choose predetermined faces. For a game where you spend alot of time looking at your character in cutscenes, the amount of corner cutting in CC is disappointing. It should have been one of the top five priorities. The number of unique models in this game, NPC wise is also staggeringly low.

 

They've explained why characters are humanoid a number of times.

 

The graphics were no doubt simplified to accommodate as many systems as possible, like World of Warcraft, I understand that. But if that is the case, why does the game, for me and so many others run like absolute crap? I understand its an MMO but this is just inexcusable

 

Should get a better computer that doesn't suck quite so badly then because many with 5+ year old rigs run it fine.

 

Okay, gameplay. Know World of Warcraft? Good news! You already know how to play 85% of the game! Played KOTOR only? Bad news! Theres basically nothing from KOTOR in this that warrants mention. Its your standard MMO affair. Tanks, Heals, DPS, Burst Damage, DOT, Taunts, Rotations, ETC. If you're used to MMOs then you're in luck. It does that pretty well, although tanking as my Jedi Guardian has been a fittingly in character practice in patience. You dont get your first taunt until 15, and it has a long cool down. Your robot companion tanks better than you. The gameplay is the same tired WoW gameplay but with a combat delay which makes it worse, and the game suffers big time for it.

 

I don't tank so can't comment.

 

The missions are the biggest flaw in this game. Every quest is a variation of "Go here, kill stuff along the way for bonus maybe, kill boss or interact with object" or "Collect 5 blah blah blah" with varying degrees of logic in their drops,. All the flavor in the world, which does help a little, doesn't change the fact that is every quest. But maybe that is nit picking. Your choices in quests rarely matter as well. Story is this game's real saving grace, and why it goes from "Mediocre MMO" to "has potential." Imperial Agent's story was a freaking blast, but after you finish all the storylines, if you even do that... what next? Endgame in this game is pretty much non-existent. One or two mediocre raids... And yes, Bioware continues the proud tradition of Dark Side = Stupid Evil Jerk. I was hoping DS Jedi Knight would mean "Emotional and prideful" but nope, just "AHAHA LOOK HOW EVIL I AM FOR NO REASON".

 

Yeah it is nitpicking.

 

Another issue is every faction goes through the same planet order. Your Bounty Hunter and Sith Warrior's planets after the first one will be the exact same experience as will the quests - save for your personal class quests. This will make replay value for someone like me who can't stand doing the same thing again very difficult. Also this makes the whole "KOTOR 3-11" claim a total farce. Class storylines are only 20% of the game. Everyone shares about 80% and one of the best features I would list was removed.. Your armor could be matched to the color of whatever your chest piece was, avoiding clown armor. They removed that...

 

Same routine, different character class experience but still fun and you're going to do the quests anyway. It's not like they are excruciatingly mind numbing to do again like in that game known as WoW. I've nearly died from boredom repeating 60-85 after the first time or 2 through. I don't get that feeling from TOR. They didn't remove chest matching, they simple decided not to implement it until it was working how they intended which they have stated.

 

All in all ,the story of this game is pretty good and had me hooked for the first 2 weeks. Sadly, the gameplay made it where it was a chore. I was FORCING MYSELF THROUGH GAMEPLAY for the story. That's unacceptable for an MMO where gameplay should always be important. Maybe this game will improve in the future but for now, this game is just another WoW clone, in space, with kinda cool cut scenes, and with a lot less real content.

The painful UI issues...Cant search the AH, bad UI with no customization, search filtering doesn't work on menus, no dual spec, and respec is EXPENSIVE. There are just so many features you should expect missing. It attempts to be like WoW, without the things that made WoW popular. It just has neat storylines. But that is all it brings to the table and I'm terribly upset that the reply value and long-term hook does not seem to be in place at all. This means 30 to 60 days and a lot will lose interest.

 

Read the stickly, they've said they are working on a bunch of UI stuff.

 

I understand that many will not like this review but you need to look at this without being subjective. I'm saying that for $100,000,000+ dollars that has been spent on this game it does not come close to the graphics of AOC, the gameplay of WOW, the UI of RIFT, the customization of WOWs UI, the innovation of EVE, the PVP of Shadowbane or DAOC, and the story of LOTRO.

 

WoW took it's ideas from Everquest. WoW is not the holy grail of MMOs. Everything WoW got it took from EQ just like every other MMO out there.

 

Also don't know what rig you're playing on but on mine SWTOR looks incredible for no AA.

[Xaestha]

Can all you WoW fanbois please go back to your ****** MMO? We get you have a Hard on for WoW, so please stop ************ about TOR, which the MAJORITY are having fun playing.

[njsurfing]

Thanks for giving your input, but you unfortunately invalidated it all with this statement. You're expecting a brand new MMO (not even actually a week old yet as far as official release is concerned) from people who are doing an MMO for the first time to have the gameplay or UI customization of games that have been out for years. It's sort of like getting upset at a kindergartner's first drawing because it wasn't of the same quality as comic book artist Stjepan Sejic.

 

Are you really saying that blizzard is a quality artist and bioware is a kindergartner?

 

I think the original poster expects a product to be as good as current ones. for instance, I would expect a new cell phone maker to create a phone with 4G/wifi, etc, not a phone with 2G, no browser, etc.

 

This game is fun but is not even in the same league as wow as far as an MMORPG goes. This game is more comparable to mass effect or dragon age, not wow.

[DrakusMa]

Adios, amigo.

[PROGOD]

I would write my own review but it would look so much like this one its not funny

 

bw dev better get there act together if they are going to get people to keep paying subs.

 

I suspect the ave mmo player will be done with leveling within the free 30 daqys if not def after the first sub month so the big question is what is there to keep mmo players after that.

 

currently nothing exists to keep a player playing after playing through the storyline once imo

 

there is sio much atm missing that is considered bare minimum standard in MMO's

 

first toon hit 50 yesterday took me about a week problem is currently there are like 4 50's on my server currently so raiding atm is on hold till more catch up. I am rolling a republic toon but already feeling the stress of replayability. I do agree with the op more content is needed to sustain gameplay for awhile or this game will be updateing patches as fast as rift due to bleeding subs.

[Kaedann]

You aren't alone OP, myself and about ten friends are just amazed how hollow and bland this game turned out to be. I can't honestly seeing myself playing past the first month, and even that is going to be a chore.

 

There is this overall feeling to the game that it's just bleh. I suppose your points highlight this better heh.

[Mamono]

Can all you WoW fanbois please go back to your ****** MMO? We get you have a Hard on for WoW, so please stop ************ about TOR, which the MAJORITY are having fun playing.

 

Keep telling that to everyone that has an idea how to improve the game or have an opition about the game and see how many whos back in the game in the end if all of them did go back.....

[JimG]

Nothing original here. This stuff has all already been covered ad nauseum in other threads. There was absolutely no need to create a new thread for any of this.

[Kazu]

you are so right OP. I thought I would be able to play a great mmo in starwars universe but instead I get a singleplayer game with some multiplayer functions, don't kid yourself people, there is no replay value to this game, once you do 1 rep and 1 imp character it's over, the class story quest doesnt justify having to do the hundreds of boring quests you already done on your first character..

[Jaku]

Some people like it, some people don't.

 

We've established this.

[DarkoDon]

Because it's number 1. Hard to understand?

 

If you think WoW is #1, your sadly mistaken. Not sure what you take into account as making a mmo better than the next. WoW might have more subs, but other games have better gameplay, or better communities, or be f2p and have waaaaay more people playing it than WoW ever had. There is no #1 mmo, it's all opinion based.

 

Understand that.

[DarthDolemite]

If you think WoW is #1, your sadly mistaken. Not sure what you take into account as making a mmo better than the next. WoW might have more subs, but other games have better gameplay, or better communities, or be f2p and have waaaaay more people playing it than WoW ever had. There is no #1 mmo, it's all opinion based.

 

Understand that.

 

Wrong!

[swishers]

If you think WoW is #1, your sadly mistaken. Not sure what you take into account as making a mmo better than the next. WoW might have more subs, but other games have better gameplay, or better communities, or be f2p and have waaaaay more people playing it than WoW ever had. There is no #1 mmo, it's all opinion based.

 

Understand that.

 

No, WoW is pretty much the # 1 mmo. EVERY mmo now a days rips most of it's design right from WoW. From the UI, to the in game interface, to the arbitrary token systems and dailies.

 

Was WoW the first MMO? No. But it WAS the first CASUAL mmo, which is what pretty much every MMO since WoW has been.

 

Go back to your old days of AC, EQ, DAoC and you won't find **** like an ingame map, giant !/?'s ovre quest givers heads, useful tooltips, etc etc. WoW pioneered the MMO scene and anyone who thinks otherwise is completely and totally clueless.

 

Not to get it twisted, I'm not saying WoW started MMO's or WoW is the grandfather of MMO's. I'm saying that while WoW took from a ******** of MMO's and their other Blizzard games and built upon it, MMO's now a days take WoW and reskin it to their liking with 1 or 2 "defining" features for the game. SW:TOR is different in that it reskinned WoW and added 5 or 6 "defining" features for the game. Which was basically just mash KOTOR, ME and WoW together.

[davidpop]

I would write my own review but it would look so much like this one its not funny

 

Ahhh man, cmon, write one, what this forum needs is more reviews from Joe Nobodys....

[Jalal]

It is not only fair but expected to compare it to wow.

 

WOW has been in development for 7 years. That is 7 years of free development information that SWTOR should utilize. If they haven't then shame on them.

 

I will give them a break on content, but some of the basics should be there.

 

My biggest gripe is the oversized worlds that just seem like pointless running around. Here is the next chain of your quest run for 10 minutes oh and by the way if you want kill 60 of x woohoo. I like big worlds if it makes sense, this is big for being big sake, its not fun or interesting to me.