For those who criticize Bioware for focusing on story/solo play......

[ivanhedgehog]

You can't say that. It's just not true.

I happen to be one of those mostly single player guys, who came because of Kotor and Bioware in general. I've been subscribed for most of the game's existence.

I may soon stop because of university, personnal projects and others but it's not tied to my playstyle.

Claiming that Kotor fan only bought the game at release and never subscribed for long is just false. Because you can't know for sure.

 

you are telling us you bought more than 1 copy of kotor? did you install it multiple times on the same machine? was there some subscription service the rest of us missed? Hint: single player games arent usually subscription based.

[ivanhedgehog]

Will Kotor fans be willing to pay a sub fee? Maybe I'm confused on this post but I think whether or not Kotor fans are going to sub to this game would have be decided over the past 3 years. Nothing is going to change in that regard with KoTFE I believe.

That is to say if the initial games story etc. wasn't enough to get them subbing then KoTFE is unlikely to but it might bring in a few stragglers who didn't give it a go yet or didn't like the mmo aspect to it as it was originally designed ( the annoying forced side mission grind which has gone with 12xp.

 

I do agree with the point on pure story players possibly only subbing once at first then again 6 months later but one would think Bioware has a few more tricks up there sleeves to try keep these players interested and playing that we aren't aware of yet.

For one example we are aware of - the operation/FP overhaul. Whilst there has been a ton of discussion mostly around the lack of new ops I'm yet to find too many people who find the overhaul itself a negative. I think it will make the existing "end game" content much more accessible and there is a plethora of it so that might be on aspect that can help get the non MMO types at least trying it out and possibly getting hooked and playing on.

 

Also I'm sure Bioware must have done some planning around the possibility of pay n run subbing and taken that into account with any sort of budgeting they would have done around KoTFE.

 

They key statement though - time will tell.

 

we will see next year. I am concerned with the op overhaul because bw has not been able to properly tune operations any time recently. maybe my concerns will be unfounded. hopefully there will be some beta testing on this. look how overtuned rav/tos was at release. catering to your top hardcore raiding guild was a mistake. and see the loyalty they showed in return.

[Januaria]

"So for those who think that this is another mistake that Bioware is taking with SWTOR and that people will leave this game in droves because of the focus on solo play, then you are wrong. In fact, this expansion will satisfy a majority of their player base! In fact, the only reason why I am here and back as a subscriber is because I am excited for this new solo-friendly approach to SWTOR and while waiting for KotFE, I am leveling up a few characters that I will import into KotFE later this year."

 

I am so hoping that what you've posted is true! I am a confirmed soloer and more solo content would be heaven-sent. In fact, I wish all content was solo-able: Heroics, Flashpoints, etc.

 

Unlike some, I didn't sub to the game along with FFC's (family, friends, co-workers) + busy, chaotic lifestyle = cannot commit to a group for any length of time and when the phone rings I log off that moment, wouldn't be right to do that to a group.

 

So solo content? YES!!!

 

[samhinch]

I'm very happy that the game is shifting more solo. Doing flash points with just a couple of people is fun. Operations are a terrible way to deliver story content. You need too many people working together toward a single goal. It's llike herding feral barn cats. Solo content also provides you with the experience of the story without an impatient group member yelling at you to spacebar through cut scenes.

I think it's a good move by bioware.

[SithyJerry]

This game has Always been "solo" with some mmo / mp parts to it.

 

You'd have to be blind to have failed to notice that fact.

 

I've Always felt and said this game is an SP experience with co-op attached to it + some pvp arena type areas and thats about it.

 

Is that bad? no.. least now i think not.

Back at the start of the game i was disappointed but maybe after having played so many mmo's where you are all but forced to team up.. i ended up liking this type of game more.

[Leklor]

you are telling us you bought more than 1 copy of kotor? did you install it multiple times on the same machine? was there some subscription service the rest of us missed? Hint: single player games arent usually subscription based.

 

So your point was that people who play Kotor never bought the game more than a single time?

How is that relevant to SWTOR, may I ask?

I interpreted your rant as a statement of fact that Kotor players never subscribed to SWTOR and should therefore not be the target of the coming expac.

If that's your point, then I stand my ground. Why would people who played Kotor 1 and 2 be unwilling to subscribe to SWTOR? I was and I did, and I sure as hell am not pretentious enough to think myself the only one in that case.

If your point is that solo players don't buy the same game twice, then I don't see the relation to SWTOR. Subscribing isn't like buying the same game, it's paying to have access to the servers where said game is played.

 

And for your information: I bought Kotor 1 four times, twice as a boxed copy (One I gave to a friend in exchange for another game and the second who didn't survive the years of overuse), once on Steam and once on GOG (Since the Steam version ended up running really bad on Windows 7).

Edited August 19, 2015 by Leklor

[JouerTue]

i won't pay for a solo game. should i sub for fleet chat? lol.

two months after kotfe release with no signs of ops and i'll drop my sub.

and i skipped all the cutscenes of all the 8 stories.

[ivanhedgehog]

So your point was that people who play Kotor never bought the game more than a single time?

How is that relevant to SWTOR, may I ask?

I interpreted your rant as a statement of fact that Kotor players never subscribed to SWTOR and should therefore not be the target of the coming expac.

If that's your point, then I stand my ground. Why would people who played Kotor 1 and 2 be unwilling to subscribe to SWTOR? I was and I did, and I sure as hell am not pretentious enough to think myself the only one in that case.

If your point is that solo players don't buy the same game twice, then I don't see the relation to SWTOR. Subscribing isn't like buying the same game, it's paying to have access to the servers where said game is played.

 

And for your information: I bought Kotor 1 four times, twice as a boxed copy (One I gave to a friend in exchange for another game and the second who didn't survive the years of overuse), once on Steam and once on GOG (Since the Steam version ended up running really bad on Windows 7).

 

why would you expect single player gamers to subscribe to swtor? pay the 1st month...get 9 stories...wait 6 or 8 months..get the rest. $30 bucks you got it all. why pay every month? I have my kotor 1 and 2 on the shelf. I can reinstall them at any time. I am not wasteful like you, I doubt many people are.there will be absolutely no reason to subscribe for the little bit of content every month or so. ftp once you have the initial unlock will be fine.

[Shwarzchild]

why would you expect single player gamers to subscribe to swtor? pay the 1st month...get 9 stories...wait 6 or 8 months..get the rest. $30 bucks you got it all. why pay every month? I have my kotor 1 and 2 on the shelf. I can reinstall them at any time. I am not wasteful like you, I doubt many people are.there will be absolutely no reason to subscribe for the little bit of content every month or so. ftp once you have the initial unlock will be fine.

 

It's an interesting question to ask for sure. I will say though, that there probably are quite a few people who would have continued to buy Mass Effect DLC over and over again. I probably would have. If paying in advance allowed me free access to continuous Mass Effect chapters I would have absolutely done it. I didn't want that game to end. If KoTFE is anything as fleshed out, and of similar qualities, as something such as Mass Effect there could be a gigantic swell of players who want their stories to continue. Nobody has ever done this though, so it's definitely a very big question in terms of can it be successful.

 

Ive said previously that there has to be a balance between end game pvp/ and pve. So I do not think that episodic content could potentially act as that foundational support system all by itself. IF, and this is the big if to me, IF Bioware can release KotFE as smoothly as possible and get a new operation cadence out early in 2016 then this game has some serious legs to it again. My biggest two questions are 1) Can they stick to this monthly cadence for these story chapters when their history has been littered with cadence changes. 2) Can they really stick to their time frames for new operation tiers? There just hasn't been enough in the history of this game that could possibly let us feel comfortable in saying that they can actually stick to these time schedules.

 

If they can really really stick to their timing schedules...this game is going to explode in a good way.

Edited August 19, 2015 by Shwarzchild

[DarthDymond]

why would you expect single player gamers to subscribe to swtor? pay the 1st month...get 9 stories...wait 6 or 8 months..get the rest. $30 bucks you got it all. why pay every month? I have my kotor 1 and 2 on the shelf. I can reinstall them at any time. I am not wasteful like you, I doubt many people are.there will be absolutely no reason to subscribe for the little bit of content every month or so. ftp once you have the initial unlock will be fine.

Because after I finish Chapter 9 I don't want to wait six or eight months to see Chapter 10 when it is already available. Same reason plenty of people pay full retail price on a $60 game when you know full well its price will drop significantly in six to eight months.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

BW is putting immense pressure on itself to make this happen without the stale breaks that you mention. If they don't, and the stale breaks are indeed perceived to be there, they are in for a big backlash.

 

Whilst I would expect some breaks if the changes to the end game content are done correctly and it can get more people partaking in OPs then for those people it won't seem quite so stale.

 

This of course assumes that there are far more players who've a max level character who haven't done all the raids numerous times or can be considered "raiders" than those that are.

I base that assumption on previous topics around this where people presented industry wide metrics from various games showing the raiding community was a fairly small % much like PVP. Of course that is game dependent and metrics can be interpreted and gained in many ways but that's my opinion on that so I won't delve in to it too much as it's ideally another topic.

 

One point I will make though is in regards to end game of SWToR is when is end game? My point is you hit level 60 now on your first char, raiding seems daunting as everoyne expects you to know this and know that and it's quite an elitist and at times toxic community so instead you start a new char for a new story or start macrobinoculars or hk seeking or a multitude of other things you can do.

You could almost say having 8 class stories hurts raiding in this game because it doesn't really invite people to try raiding, much easier to go and do more of the story stuff available and get great value from their sub. Of course the raiding community don't help matters - have you ever seen a pug advertisement "looking for newbie op runners for a carry through and explanation of this raid" or anything like that? Not that I expect to but you tend to get the complete opposite "must know this, must have this gear, must be able to do this fast and not ask questions as it's a speed run" yada ya - it really puts new players off.

 

To those that are bored and have done absolutely everything in the game including all raids etc. and actually ahve nothing else they want to do ... well I would think that must be such a small subset that this would be accounted for in budgeting and the financial loss would be nothing comapred to the financial gains they hope to see and I would personally agree with this conclusion even without seeing their metrics.

 

 

I also feel that 12 months is the earliest realistic scenario. But think about that, thats about 150+ dollars/EUR of subscription fees for a single line of story that they will release in bits and pieces. This in my opinion is outrageous and bordering on unethical. What empowers them to do it is that they have:

 

1. a captive audience of players that want story and have nowhere else to go at present for this type of experiece
   
2. a new influx of players who want to try this "restart". Since they will be playing from the beginning, it will seem like there is a lot of content
   

 

I think this would have been the perfect time to shift the business model to Buy-to-play: one rate for existing subscribers for the KotFE add-on, another rate for new players for the whole game, doing away with F2P completely. And then no subscription fee, ever again. This is one of the few remaining sub-based MMOs out there, and in my opinion they are not releasing/supporting enough content to warrant the subscription fee. Compare ESO, GW2, Rift ... whatever you think of those actual games, just look at their content compared to their business model and you will see that SWTOR as projected after KotFE is a preposterous rip-off.

 

Well we'll just have to agree to disagree on those points as it's completely subject. I've come nowhere near doing everything fun ( imo ) there is to do in this game and I still enjoy it.

Of course someone who has done everything may indeed feel the way you do and then perhaps it is time to stop subbing for awhile until the content can back up.

Again though I think that would put you in quite a minority of players who have reached this point but that's just my opinion based around the sheer massive amount of content that exists in this game.

I can't comment for those other MMO's - I haven' played them so I can only realte my sub fee to what I can do in this game and quite frankly I'm happy to play it.

 

I guess going for me also is I pay to play casually at the moment. Do the odd raid, daily GTN stuff, whatever else tickles my fancy. I play other non MMO games a lot right now ( more than SWToR ) so it stops SWToR getting stale for me and yet I still feel like paying the sub fee for this game so *shrug* this point is really each to their own - only you can decide if this game is worth subbing for to you, you can't really put your views on others in that regard unless they are in a similar situation with completed content as you.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

we will see next year. I am concerned with the op overhaul because bw has not been able to properly tune operations any time recently. maybe my concerns will be unfounded. hopefully there will be some beta testing on this. look how overtuned rav/tos was at release. catering to your top hardcore raiding guild was a mistake. and see the loyalty they showed in return.

 

Completely agree with the raiding point. They need to tune these to make storymode be almost stupidly easy.

Sure the hardcore elitists won't like that but honestly I don't care about them in the slightest because from my time on these forums the majority of them come across as the most entitled, whinging bunch of players on the forums also and most of the time the whinging is just plain unjustified.

 

Any time you spend valuable development resources to try cater to such a particular minority in a game like this you are just asking for trouble.

 

What they should have done is looked at it like "we have X% of accounts having tried raiding or doing it this much or having completed this and that ... we want to improve this % and make it more accessible to justify making more raiding content - how do we go about it?" and go from there. Not "let's make it even harder and more inaccessible so even less people bother with raiding" - that was a massive fail.

 

My post there reminded me of one point people seem to neglect in metrics also.

Often we hear people saying how the metrics are ( not might be, but are heh ) skewed because of 12x etc. etc. but the funny thing is that takes this massive assumption that Bioware can't look at it on a per account basis.

Just like they can see how many characters have done X and Y they can also see how many pure accounts have done X and Y and it's the account metric that will give them the best stats on popular gaming activities.

 

People seem to base their knowledge of BW metrics around the fancy little posters they release, yup that's a really expert point to base an argument around.

 

I say we don't know BW metrics at all and they are probably smart enough to realise what sort of thins like 12xp might be skewing their figures and how to get around before commiting to multi million dollar development projects.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Because after I finish Chapter 9 I don't want to wait six or eight months to see Chapter 10 when it is already available. Same reason plenty of people pay full retail price on a $60 game when you know full well its price will drop significantly in six to eight months.

 

This is another point they will be banking on. I think most people even if they intended on doing 1-9 then the rest months later would probably succumb to temptation at 10 or 11 and re-sub.

 

Another point I think is with all this talk of unsubbing because nto getting new end game content etc. ... why are these people still here to post now and not unsubbed now? There is FAR less content the past few motnhs than there will be once KoTFE launches, why wait until there actually is more content to quit?

 

There is nothing stopping these people quitting now and coming back at lanuch or later on etc. - there is just as much a lack of end game content now as there will be then ( in fact far less because end gamers probably don't redo classic ops that much right now as they may do once KoTFE launches ) or are the pre-order bonuses really that worth it? Anyone who thinks they are I can almost guarantee won't unsub a few months into KoTFE because there will always be another carrot on a stick.

[ivanhedgehog]

Completely agree with the raiding point. They need to tune these to make storymode be almost stupidly easy.

Sure the hardcore elitists won't like that but honestly I don't care about them in the slightest because from my time on these forums the majority of them come across as the most entitled, whinging bunch of players on the forums also and most of the time the whinging is just plain unjustified.

 

Any time you spend valuable development resources to try cater to such a particular minority in a game like this you are just asking for trouble.

 

What they should have done is looked at it like "we have X% of accounts having tried raiding or doing it this much or having completed this and that ... we want to improve this % and make it more accessible to justify making more raiding content - how do we go about it?" and go from there. Not "let's make it even harder and more inaccessible so even less people bother with raiding" - that was a massive fail.

 

My post there reminded me of one point people seem to neglect in metrics also.

Often we hear people saying how the metrics are ( not might be, but are heh ) skewed because of 12x etc. etc. but the funny thing is that takes this massive assumption that Bioware can't look at it on a per account basis.

Just like they can see how many characters have done X and Y they can also see how many pure accounts have done X and Y and it's the account metric that will give them the best stats on popular gaming activities.

 

People seem to base their knowledge of BW metrics around the fancy little posters they release, yup that's a really expert point to base an argument around.

 

I say we don't know BW metrics at all and they are probably smart enough to realise what sort of thins like 12xp might be skewing their figures and how to get around before commiting to multi million dollar development projects.

 

as far as the metrics, I honestly have no real idea as what they are looking at. no one here does. metrics can be good or they can be done badly. none of us knows biowares process. you are right on the raiding. I was on a hm/nim progression team for over a year and I felt that they tuned sm stupidly high. That is part of why I am not completely happy with them upping all the ops. It was great to bring new raiders into ev or karaggas and show them that raiding could be fun when done with a group of people that were relaxed and having fun. it wasnt sudden death around every corner. it was fun bringing someone in leveling greens in and helping them see how bosses were done and helping to gear them. so none of the drops helped me in the slightest? so what. letting zorz put their stamp on tos/rav was a huge mistake.

 

as to why are people still here? 12xp for many. they are getting toons leveled

Edited August 19, 2015 by ivanhedgehog

[FerkWork]

as far as the metrics, I honestly have no real idea as what they are looking at. no one here does. metrics can be good or they can be done badly. none of us knows biowares process. you are right on the raiding. I was on a hm/nim progression team for over a year and I felt that they tuned sm stupidly high. That is part of why I am not completely happy with them upping all the ops. It was great to bring new raiders into ev or karaggas and show them that raiding could be fun when done with a group of people that were relaxed and having fun. it wasnt sudden death around every corner. it was fun bringing someone in leveling greens in and helping them see how bosses were done and helping to gear them. so none of the drops helped me in the slightest? so what. letting zorz put their stamp on tos/rav was a huge mistake.

 

as to why are people still here? 12xp for many. they are getting toons leveled

 

Sudden Death around every corner is my fetish

[Grayseven]

My problem with this whole discussion on metrics has and always will be that no one here truly knows what metrics Bioware are basing decisions off. We only know what they've decided to show us and that's going to be a very small subset of what they have available.

 

In general my position is basically KoTFE as we know it now is a wise decision.

It's bringing in plenty of story content that has always been the core of SWToR imo and hopefully promising to keep it on going so no big stale breaks between continuing storylines.

Also it's finally giving a long needed overhaul to operations and flashpoints to provide more end game content and making it far more accessible than it's ever been.

 

Yes I get that it's not fresh end game content but then that's the balance that we get this time, there will be more fresh end game introduced and it will be introduced in to a far better structured and accessible environment than what we had before. This needed to happen at some stage so what better time to have your op/fp team focus on this rejig than in the run in to such a big content update where the lack of new end game content won't be as noticeable than any other time ideally.

 

In terms of metrics or numbers we only really have our opinions.

I would find it hard to believe that an emphasis on story now would be catering to a minority over a majority also in this game, especially if you take attracting new customers in to the equation.

In the end we will find out in about 12 months I feel. By that time all of KoTFE will be out and they should have released new ops/fps.

From this they can then take more metrics to compare what had the better impact upon subscriber numbers.

If it turns out KoTFE boosted subscribers ( or let's just call it profit in general because the way people approach KoTFE and where they spend their money can differ ) and that taking a break from episodic content after the schedule of KoTFE chapters are done to focus on end game content or other "features" then start to see a decline then I think that you will see a long term focus on story content like KoTFE and even less focus on OPs and FPs.

 

However if KoTFE just falls flat it's quite likely you will see little focus on anything in 12 months because that may actually doom n gloom time for this game though personally I don't see KoTFE failing ( as long as they didn't set the bar riddiculously high, we have no idea ).

 

Perfect scenario is KoTFE is so successful they can afford to grow their team and have linear development of ops and story content and everyone is happy ... except pvp ... sorry pvp ( gsf included ) but I don't see you ever being a focus in this game with the current MMO style model it uses but hey that's just my opinion, maybe they'll wake up and get away from making gearing ANY sort of requirement for casual PVP.

I think this has a moderate chance of success depending on how good KoTFE is and how long the chapters are and if it can lure the non raiders into trying some raiding under the new system to retain them in the game. That may require the community being a little less toxic though, especially in game.

 

Anyway sorry but very little doom n gloom above, this is not the post you are looking for.

 

I want to address the highlighted portion of this comment.

 

Every toon that currently exists has played story content. Whether or not a toon has done something else such as ops, fps or pvp it can be stated unequivocally that it has done story.

 

From that data alone one could extrapolate that the majority wants story because that is what the majority plays. But that would be a false interpretation of the available data because it does not take into account the variables.

 

Variables like the fact that you don't get your companions or starship without doing the class story. And the fact that 12x xp has people doing just class story and no side quests. Those two simple facts automatically create questions in my mind about any data that says player metrics show EA/BW that players of SWTOR prefer story content.

 

Could EA/BW have made a design decision based on sketchy data analysis? Yep. It happens every day, mostly because...as the old adage goes...people see what they want to see (or show people what they want to be shown). So if, in a corporate office somewhere, a person in charge has made a comment along the lines of "Bioware has always been about the story, we need to return to our roots" and later says we need to collect data on what our players want...well, it becomes very easy for the data collector to reinforce the the view of the person in charge by showing him that story is indeed something that the majority of players do so that must be what they want.

 

All because a majority of players most assuredly do story content. Because they have to. Because it's built into the system.

[Jeweledleah]

Because after I finish Chapter 9 I don't want to wait six or eight months to see Chapter 10 when it is already available. Same reason plenty of people pay full retail price on a $60 game when you know full well its price will drop significantly in six to eight months.

 

but on a flipside - single player gamers have, well single player games to play. moreover - for every player that buys at launch, there are at least as many if not more that are perfectly content to wait for a sale. how do you think STEAM got as big as it did to the point of damn near everyone copying them, including seasonal sales?

 

we still have people here who haven't bought SoR after all.

Edited August 19, 2015 by Jeweledleah

[MeNaCe-NZ]

 

as to why are people still here? 12xp for many. they are getting toons leveled

 

I didn't mean why are people here, why are the people who claim there will be so little to do with the fail that will be KoTFE still here? There will be more to do then than there is now so why bother playing now?

 

If it's leveling alts pretty sure they can still do that with KoTFE.

 

I want to hear from those doom sayers on why they are playing now but won't be a few months into KoTFE, what is the difference between then and now that I'm just not seeing?

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I want to address the highlighted portion of this comment.

 

Every toon that currently exists has played story content. Whether or not a toon has done something else such as ops, fps or pvp it can be stated unequivocally that it has done story.

 

First error I see is you assume they would base metrics around how many toons did story vs how many accounts did operations etc. Why assume they only look at toons metrics vs account metric? The account metric will be the more accurate metric to base any financial decisions on.

 

I skipped the rest of your post and won't go further because I already touched on the account aspect:

 

Often we hear people saying how the metrics are ( not might be, but are heh ) skewed because of 12x etc. etc. but the funny thing is that takes this massive assumption that Bioware can't look at it on a per account basis.

Just like they can see how many characters have done X and Y they can also see how many pure accounts have done X and Y and it's the account metric that will give them the best stats on popular gaming activities.

 

People seem to base their knowledge of BW metrics around the fancy little posters they release, yup that's a really expert point to base an argument around.

 

I say we don't know BW metrics at all and they are probably smart enough to realise what sort of thins like 12xp might be skewing their figures and how to get around before commiting to multi million dollar development projects.

 

Now you could be right, they could base it all around toon metrics but I would find that a rather fool hardy way to base the wants of a community when they can extrapolate much better data from looking at the type of activities accounts on a whole do and how they spend their total playtime regardless of how many toons etc.

 

Analytics are far more advanced than most people either want to admit or are even aware of and there is just so much more off the top of my head they could incorporate into getting accurate metrics from analysing the data they should have available to them and with the resources they have available to them and the small touches they have mentioned about their datasets ( mind boggling amounts of data really ) I am confident they have done a fairly accurate analysis of their data to determine their metrics and base this future direction of the game in the right direction.

[Andryah]

All because a majority of players most assuredly do story content. Because they have to. Because it's built into the system.

 

Their analytics, by all appearances, are much better then the superficial example you sited.

 

For example.. they certainly are able to audit accounts and tell exactly what you are doing, when, and how.... if they want to parse the player base and see what we are doing. For example... they certainly are able to audit and see if a player is space baring through a story mission or if they are taking their time and actually embracing the story. And while I say "player" in my examples.. it is fully scalable to any demographic of the player base they could possibly want to see. I could go on and on here.. but I've made my point.

 

Modern analytics packages are amazing when wired into the data bases correctly. It's fairly straightforward to write new report views to look at new things if needed as well.

 

Note.. this is not directed at you but at the composite of the thread: I have yet to see a single poster in this thread (who is doubting their metrics) appear to have any real clue about how modern analytics packages work or how they are applied in complex databases to understand what your customers are doing.

 

AND.. analytics is only one part of the equation. But it is an excellent component in the equation to validate/invalidate assumptions as to what players are doing and what they are interested in.

 

In the end.. none of us know any specifics about their metrics.. other then what they tell us. Nobody with an agenda against the devs will believe anything they say if it does not fit the prosecutions focus. This thread, IMO, has devolved into a whirlpool of opinions circling the bowl of player expressed dissatisfaction.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Andryah

[Derat]

Using myself as an example. I have 16 60's - Many prior to 12x xp - the metric on me would indicate I LOVE story. LOVE it. The truth is I *like* it but mostly I just get bored. I run HM OP's 2 times per week with people I have been with online for 2-3 years in this game. They are friends. Do the metrics tell Bio-ware that I would run HM OP's with them 5-6 days a week if I could? I can't get 8 people to show up 6 days a week (nor should they have to, lol)... the reality is I can't do that so I am forced to do other things. But it looks like I prefer story as I do it more. These 8 people spoil me, I HATE PUGS WITH A LOATHING PASSION. So I do not run Group content without my peeps that are all on TS and know what to do or can adjust as needed.

 

Reality skews/skrews the metrics. We have no ability to create in game events, we are forced to use external websites no one wants to visit (and so they don't) to organize in game events or group content - So its near impossible to get people involved - you have to beg them to go to a website and sign up or get on Teamspeak etc... and they often don't regardless - so if it wasn't for 8 of us knowing the time and day to be on and being committed to that almost without fail we would not run any OPs and I know this is a struggle for friends running in other guilds...

 

Did the metrics notice that, while i have done unique stories 16 times, I have run Ziost 4.5 times across 16 toons? That I loathe Rishi and Yavin but have little choice? I did Ziost once to see it pub side, once to see it Imp side, a different class to see if the story changes much. Like 4 lines/responses are were new and so I got bored - hence 50% the way though on one toon. So is no new OP' and FP's really what the fan base wants or can metrics be skewed to fit whatever the person viewing them wants them to look like. (I have helped people run Ziost, so its actually more now - 4.5 times by own motivation... if it wasn't helping someone i would not have chosen to do it again on my own. Also 1 time I had to to get a toon access to the op boss.)

If I offer 3000 7 years olds a piece of cheese *or* a chocolate bar can I really say 90% of the 7 year olds in the world hate cheese? ... I think according to bio-ware that answer is yes.

 

Give us ways to get people involved in grp content that is not just a "Here are a bunch of random people, they may have no idea what they are doing." button and then saying - well... no one likes group content.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Derat

[ThorgrimLutgen]

Using myself as an example. I have 16 60's - Many prior to 12x xp - the metric on me would indicate I LOVE story. LOVE it. The truth is I *like* it but mostly I just get bored. I run HM OP's 2 times per week with people I have been with online for 2-3 years in this game. They are friends. Do the metrics tell Bio-ware that I would run HM OP's with them 5-6 days a week if I could? I can't get 8 people to show up 6 days a week (nor should they have to, lol)... the reality is I can't do that so I am forced to do other things. But it looks like I prefer story as I do it more. These 8 people spoil me, I HATE PUGS WITH A LOATHING PASSION. So I do not run Group content without my peeps that are all on TS and know what to do or can adjust as needed.

 

Reality skews/skrews the metrics. We have no ability to create in game events, we are forced to use external websites no one wants to visit (and so they don't) to organize in game events or group content - So its near impossible to get people involved - you have to beg them to go to a website and sign up or get on Teamspeak etc... and they often don't regardless - so if it wasn't for 8 of us knowing the time and day to be on and being committed to that almost without fail we would not run any OPs and I know this is a struggle for friends running in other guilds...

 

Did the metrics notice that, while i have done unique stories 16 times, I have run Ziost 4.5 times across 16 toons? That I loathe Rishi and Yavin but have little choice? I did Ziost once to see it pub side, once to see it Imp side, a different class to see if the story changes much. Like 4 lines/responses are were new and so I got bored - hence 50% the way though on one toon. So is no new OP' and FP's really what the fan base wants or can metrics be skewed to fit whatever the person viewing them wants them to look like. (I have helped people run Ziost, so its actually more now - 4.5 times by own motivation... if it wasn't helping someone i would not have chosen to do it again on my own. Also 1 time I had to to get a toon access to the op boss.)

If I offer 3000 7 years olds a piece of cheese *or* a chocolate bar can I really say 90% of the 7 year olds in the world hate cheese? ... I think according to bio-ware that answer is yes.

 

Give us ways to get people involved in grp content that is not just a "Here are a bunch of random people, they may have no idea what they are doing." button and then saying - well... no one likes group content.

 

I agree with your sentiment wholeheartedly, even from the stance of someone who never PVEs. Obviously I have ran all class stories once, why I would subject myself to that tedium an additional time baffles me. Did Ziost once, impside, would never touch it again in a million years, worse piece of BW work since Icewind Dale 2.

 

Unfortunately, you and I, no longer own the wallets they want to empty.

 

Time to let this one go.

Edited August 20, 2015 by ThorgrimLutgen

[Leklor]

why would you expect single player gamers to subscribe to swtor? pay the 1st month...get 9 stories...wait 6 or 8 months..get the rest. $30 bucks you got it all. why pay every month? I have my kotor 1 and 2 on the shelf. I can reinstall them at any time. I am not wasteful like you, I doubt many people are.there will be absolutely no reason to subscribe for the little bit of content every month or so. ftp once you have the initial unlock will be fine.

 

Noted, I'm not subscribing according to your logic.

After all, I skip most group content, so I'm a "Single player" by your logic.

All I'm saying is that Bioware/Kotor fans are not, by default, allergic to MMOs and subscription. Some are welcoming new experiences and some, like me, play a ton of alts and as a preferred I can't do that.

And FYI, I'm not "wasteful", I just struggled to find a copy of Kotor that ran correctly on a recent system and I'm not used to pirating games I love. And it's not like I bought it at 60 bucks every single time.

Your problem is that you have classified players in arbitrary group and it seems they can't behave differently from your previsions. Well, news flash, you're wrong! People ARE different and players who came because of Kotor can very well have been subscribed since launch, so why would they drop subbing now when they're about to be personnal story every months?

[Draqsko]

I agree with your sentiment wholeheartedly, even from the stance of someone who never PVEs. Obviously I have ran all class stories once, why I would subject myself to that tedium an additional time baffles me. Did Ziost once, impside, would never touch it again in a million years, worse piece of BW work since Icewind Dale 2.

 

Unfortunately, you and I, no longer own the wallets they want to empty.

 

Time to let this one go.

 

I disagree, IWD2 had a pretty good story for what is essentially a dungeon crawler. The IWD series was never an RPG nor was it touted as such. They did a really good job given the parameters of its genre.

[Joesixxpack]

In the end.. none of us know any specifics about their metrics.. other then what they tell us. .

 

At least this part is relevant and reasonable. ^ Quoted for those that missed it in the other stuff. ^

Edited August 20, 2015 by Joesixxpack