The Operative roll!!!

[Souliena]

The only problem I see is the bugged warzone.

It is not a problem, that an operative can roll with the ball, the problem is that he is hidden then because of the bugged engine, so you can't even hit him.

But that is not only a problem of the operative roll, it es a problem for every speed-skill you use if you have the ball.

And in quesh-huttball it is even worse than in the normal huttball.

Thats one reason, why I don't play quesh-huttball anymore.

I'm not interested in a bugged warzone like that. And that is a problem what exists since quesh-huttball exists.

I reported this problem many times, but we all know, Bioware isn't really interested in PVP or in fixing problems

[stephenalandavie]

If this is to be addressed then so is force speed, hold the line, leap etc etc. the 12 immunity on shadows to boot. Some kid got his butt whooped by an operative and all of a sudden its the apocalypse. This game has numerous mechanics like this. Nothing new here keep on tripping. Have a nice day. If you guys can't root you have problems. Edited July 12, 2015 by stephenalandavie

[wadecounty]

Operatives overall are fine.

 

However, concealment's roll in the hands of a skilled player is somewhat broken and too good. Its basically 100% damage immunity and cc immunity for 4 seconds out of every 10 (the immunity actually lasts for around 2 seconds from the start of a roll, not just 1 GCD). Any class with a hard hitting cast or delayed ability (thermal detonator) will never hit you with it unless they can root/stun you at the right point, but then if you happen to roll during those they can completely waste their root/stun as well.

 

Either leave the immunity to stuns/cc/physics but allow them to be damaged during the roll, or keep the damage reduction high (90% maybe) but allow stuns/cc/physics to still work. But having both makes concealment's roll simply too good for the amount of uptime it has. And yes, you're not doing damage while you roll, but with kolto probes and the ability to LOS/use infusion, you can easily outlast any target.

 

EDIT: Actually this is the change I'd like to see, give concealment's roll increased defense chance over lethality's (like 75%), so it has a little bit of defensive buff, and have it be usable while rooted (but no more 100% resistance to EVERYTHING). This emphasizes concealment's ability to move in and out of trouble, very important for a melee class without really powerful DCD's, while not being as ridiculous as the current version can be.

Edited July 12, 2015 by wadecounty

[QuiveringPotato]

Operatives overall are fine.

 

However, concealment's roll in the hands of a skilled player is somewhat broken and too good. Its basically 100% damage immunity and cc immunity for 4 seconds out of every 10 (the immunity actually lasts for around 2 seconds from the start of a roll, not just 1 GCD). Any class with a hard hitting cast or delayed ability (thermal detonator) will never hit you with it unless they can root/stun you at the right point, but then if you happen to roll during those they can completely waste their root/stun as well.

 

Either leave the immunity to stuns/cc/physics but allow them to be damaged during the roll, or keep the damage reduction high (90% maybe) but allow stuns/cc/physics to still work. But having both makes concealment's roll simply too good for the amount of uptime it has. And yes, you're not doing damage while you roll, but with kolto probes and the ability to LOS/use infusion, you can easily outlast any target.

 

EDIT: Actually this is the change I'd like to see, give concealment's roll increased defense chance over lethality's (like 75%), so it has a little bit of defensive buff, and have it be usable while rooted (but no more 100% resistance to EVERYTHING). This emphasizes concealment's ability to move in and out of trouble, very important for a melee class without really powerful DCD's, while not being as ridiculous as the current version can be.

 

I'd be okay with concealment getting either a 50% damage reduction during roll, and immunity to controlling effects for the same 1.5s, OR with 50% chance to resist damage, and always resisting controlling effects. It still shouldn't be able to be used while rooted.

 

If you nerf it any more than that, concealment will most likely go right back down the ******* to how it was pre ~2.7 ish.

 

For lethality though, I'd like them to get a passive that lets them roll while rooted, and also have roll refresh a stack of Kolto Probes upon themselves, that class needs less GCDs to worry about. Maybe even take the insta-kolto infusion off the GCD as well, when it takes them ~5-6 GCDs to start doing damage on new targets that don't have any dots on them.

Edited July 13, 2015 by QuiveringPotato

[Zoom_VI]

Change roll to where it gives 100% damage reduction for the duration of roll.

[QuiveringPotato]

Change roll to where it gives 100% damage reduction for the duration of roll.

 

That could also be doable, however I just hope they'll be able to make it to where the roll bug doesn't happen. Haven't seen it often in leth or heals lately, but still.

[stephenalandavie]

That could also be doable, however I just hope they'll be able to make it to where the roll bug doesn't happen. Haven't seen it often in leth or heals lately, but still.

 

The roll bug is the engine. I get a similar bug when i leap a sorc if i pop his bubble and get bubble stun it shows me at the original location one moment and at the sage the next it bugs out. I am afraid these bugs show up even more with maps like huttball i.e ledges etc. Roll is fine as it is really operatives can be stopped when intelligence is used but players don't stop and think quickly. The majority don''t think to root them they just spam stuns none stop till it fills his resolve and away he rolls. This isn't an op class its stupid opponents many a times i mow through drels or ops in warzones and they don't get away the roll only gets them so far. And i know from playing it if i come up against bad players its just a simple dance around the enemy but if i come up against just a decent team could be pug or premade then its going to be a hard time. Ops only 2 v 1 against stupid opponents when gear is equal.

[QuiveringPotato]

The roll bug is the engine. I get a similar bug when i leap a sorc if i pop his bubble and get bubble stun it shows me at the original location one moment and at the sage the next it bugs out. I am afraid these bugs show up even more with maps like huttball i.e ledges etc. Roll is fine as it is really operatives can be stopped when intelligence is used but players don't stop and think quickly. The majority don''t think to root them they just spam stuns none stop till it fills his resolve and away he rolls. This isn't an op class its stupid opponents many a times i mow through drels or ops in warzones and they don't get away the roll only gets them so far. And i know from playing it if i come up against bad players its just a simple dance around the enemy but if i come up against just a decent team could be pug or premade then its going to be a hard time. Ops only 2 v 1 against stupid opponents when gear is equal.

 

Yeah, I know, but Bioware has never balanced with competent players in mind.

 

So, roll is likely to get nerfed.

[wadecounty]

Yeah, I know, but Bioware has never balanced with competent players in mind.

 

So, roll is likely to get nerfed.

 

Well, again, I think concealment's roll needs a small nerf. Its kind of ridiculous right now.

 

As for the changes you suggested to Lethality, totally agree that their survivability is too GCD dependent, but getting rid of those GCD's and making their heals even more efficient isn't the way to go, they already have just about the best off healing capability of any DPS.

 

How about instead, something in their skill tree that lowers the cooldown of shield probe every time roll is used by some set amount, maybe 2 seconds? That means in a 20 second period you've already lowered its cooldown by 8 seconds, so its basically now available every 20 seconds-ish. This way, they get their survivability buffed without touching the GCD or giving them even more self healing than they already have.

 

EDIT: And I realize shield probe is almost like a self heal in some ways, but I just don't want to see Lethality become even more OP as a skank healer in yolos, and shield probe only affects the operative himself.

Edited July 13, 2015 by wadecounty

[Fellow-Canadian]

Well, again, I think concealment's roll needs a small nerf. Its kind of ridiculous right now.

 

As for the changes you suggested to Lethality, totally agree that their survivability is too GCD dependent, but getting rid of those GCD's and making their heals even more efficient isn't the way to go, they already have just about the best off healing capability of any DPS.

 

How about instead, something in their skill tree that lowers the cooldown of shield probe every time roll is used by some set amount, maybe 2 seconds? That means in a 20 second period you've already lowered its cooldown by 8 seconds, so its basically now available every 20 seconds-ish. This way, they get their survivability buffed without touching the GCD or giving them even more self healing than they already have.

 

EDIT: And I realize shield probe is almost like a self heal in some ways, but I just don't want to see Lethality become even more OP as a skank healer in yolos, and shield probe only affects the operative himself.

 

You're nerfing scoundrels into the ground in a PVP world dominated by sorcs, assassins, and PTs?

[MisterPepssi]

It *********** blows my mind how overpowered that roll is. In hutball they should not be able to roll with the ball period. Yet i see them roll from the upper level to the touchdown in one simple roll. They should get their roll on a cool down not on a power usage situation. Yeah yeah all you ops will say but it consumes so much power and we dont have any other way to mitigate damage. Except you forget you have your shield or bubble what ever it is oh and you can heal no matter what spec you are. It is a broken power making you guys unstoppable PERIOD. Then I will get a bunch of premade guys saying oh its easy to kill the op when......... Yeah but it takes 3 or more guys to neutralize the op. So lets put it into persepctive no other class has as many heals, holds, damage mitigation and dps capability. NONE!! they are OP for PVP. If a shadow/assassin can't go invis with the ball then an op should not be able to roll with it. Roll should be like force sprint its on a cooldown and does not allow huge gaps to be covered.

 

L2P, seriously.

[Anishor]

One of my guildies use to play Operative a lot and now doesn't because of lethalities issues and how OP the roll is, and suggested it be replaced for Concealment with a short duration combat cloak that doens't break combat ala Mara's cloak.

 

Another idea was to give a longer lasting but less powerful damage reduction, say an additive 20-35% for 4s after a roll.

 

Concealment is in an interesting place, the roll is most assuredly overpowered in a good players hands, but without a suitable replacement concealment would be pretty weak.

[DarkSaberMaster]

L2P, seriously.

 

I concur.

[Technohic]

You're nerfing scoundrels into the ground in a PVP world dominated by sorcs, assassins, and PTs?

 

Often times it is one of those classes complaining.

[Vember]

The roll doesn't bother me, until you get into Huttball, then it gets a bit ridiculous.

 

Although, I've also seen the same situation described in an earlier post, on civil war, where it took about 5-6 people to kill an operative because all he did was roll around the node and heal.

[DirtyDiggler]

OP is the most BS class their is. This is most certainly the case in the open world, as 1v1 a decent one can defeat anyone. This game has become a stealth infested sham.

[QuiveringPotato]

Well, again, I think concealment's roll needs a small nerf. Its kind of ridiculous right now.

 

As for the changes you suggested to Lethality, totally agree that their survivability is too GCD dependent, but getting rid of those GCD's and making their heals even more efficient isn't the way to go, they already have just about the best off healing capability of any DPS.

 

How about instead, something in their skill tree that lowers the cooldown of shield probe every time roll is used by some set amount, maybe 2 seconds? That means in a 20 second period you've already lowered its cooldown by 8 seconds, so its basically now available every 20 seconds-ish. This way, they get their survivability buffed without touching the GCD or giving them even more self healing than they already have.

 

EDIT: And I realize shield probe is almost like a self heal in some ways, but I just don't want to see Lethality become even more OP as a skank healer in yolos, and shield probe only affects the operative himself.

 

Haha, that's a good point with lethality's healing. I have a video of me basically surviving a 1v4 and healing for nearly as much damage as I took (was like 460k to 497k). But yeah, how much stuff on the GCD in lethality is ridiculous. While I don't think the kolto probe refresh during roll would be bad, since it's not improving off-healing on others, I agree with the other one, in conjunction with the auto-refresh, off-the-GCD kolto infusion could be a bit too powerful. And the shield probe thing sounds nice, but I kinda wish Leth would get the +30% absorb on shield probe back into the tree by default, as well. That with the +15% shield probe absorb set bonus used to be really fun pre 3.0.

[Quarast]

To the op, a few things may help with your problem. Firstly, I highly recommend taking the "basic competence" utility, it's really a game changer. Also, you have these really weird and strange abilities called "roots" in your abilities list. This might be a shock, but they're not just to fill up those empty gaps on your quickbar. They actually stop ops from rolling!

Enjoy

[Alec_Fortescue]

operative roll is glitchy, broken and shuld be removed from the game, as it seems it;s not possible to fix it.

[AlrikFassbauer]

This game has become a stealth infested sham.

 

For PvP I'd almost even agree ... I've been in matches with more than enough stealthers ...

[Xanas]

I don't really have a problem with the roll as an ability, then again I have a problem with the engine and how it can't properly handle it. Not sure if I should blame the engine but when this dudes roll they pop all over the place.

[MisterPepssi]

OP is the most BS class their is. This is most certainly the case in the open world, as 1v1 a decent one can defeat anyone. This game has become a stealth infested sham.

 

Because swtor is all about duels?

[MisterPepssi]

To the op, a few things may help with your problem. Firstly, I highly recommend taking the "basic competence" utility, it's really a game changer. Also, you have these really weird and strange abilities called "roots" in your abilities list. This might be a shock, but they're not just to fill up those empty gaps on your quickbar. They actually stop ops from rolling!

Enjoy

 

Basic doesn't apply to nerf op threads.

[mmmbuddah]

OP is the most BS class their is. This is most certainly the case in the open world, as 1v1 a decent one can defeat anyone. This game has become a stealth infested sham.

 

I agree. I have a scoundrel and I can say with certainty the roll needs to be dealt with. How would everyone like it if sages got force barrier every 13 seconds for 3 seconds with force speed attached to it? I am sure people would be totally ok with that.

[Technohic]

I agree. I have a scoundrel and I can say with certainty the roll needs to be dealt with. How would everyone like it if sages got force barrier every 13 seconds for 3 seconds with force speed attached to it? I am sure people would be totally ok with that.

 

Hmm, so we take the strong aspect of a class; its best defense/escape, and put it on what is regarded as maybe the most OP class in PvP and a ranged one to boot giving it aspects of a melee class defense/escape and that is supposed to tell us about that one ability?