TJBono Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 It *********** blows my mind how overpowered that roll is. In hutball they should not be able to roll with the ball period. Yet i see them roll from the upper level to the touchdown in one simple roll. They should get their roll on a cool down not on a power usage situation. Yeah yeah all you ops will say but it consumes so much power and we dont have any other way to mitigate damage. Except you forget you have your shield or bubble what ever it is oh and you can heal no matter what spec you are. It is a broken power making you guys unstoppable PERIOD. Then I will get a bunch of premade guys saying oh its easy to kill the op when......... Yeah but it takes 3 or more guys to neutralize the op. So lets put it into persepctive no other class has as many heals, holds, damage mitigation and dps capability. NONE!! they are OP for PVP. If a shadow/assassin can't go invis with the ball then an op should not be able to roll with it. Roll should be like force sprint its on a cooldown and does not allow huge gaps to be covered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venomlash Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 You'd have a persuasive argument if it weren't for the fact that in Update 2.7 (which came out 4/8/14, OVER A YEAR AGO), they DID change Scamper/Exfiltrate. Now it doesn't cost energy, but it can only be used twice before going on a 10-second cooldown. And if your team lets an enemy ball-carrier get to the ramp, it's not the developers' fault that they then are able to get into the endzone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJBono Posted July 12, 2015 Author Share Posted July 12, 2015 (edited) Thanks for the correction. I forgot that they could roll 2 times before a seriously short cooldown and cost no power. It should be a treated the same travel mechanics as force sprint and on a similar cooldown. As for letting him get to the upper edge, you have to remember they are just as hard to detect as assassins/shadows. so one could be sitting there most of the game and unless you have someone patrolling your end he i will score every time. very little coordination involved. Edited July 12, 2015 by TJBono Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iona_Var Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 I don't have an issue with them rolling with the ball. I have an issue with them rolling through a fire or acid trap with the ball and not dying. No other class can just speed right through them, so why can they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJBono Posted July 12, 2015 Author Share Posted July 12, 2015 I don't have an issue with them rolling with the ball. I have an issue with them rolling through a fire or acid trap with the ball and not dying. No other class can just speed right through them, so why can they? Exactly that is another point I forgot to mention. It is BS. they cover great distances take almost no damage and can do things that no other class can. It is broken and should be fixed. Or hell bring force sprint and hold the line up to the same type of power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrGoldsilver Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Oh good, I thought the weekly "Nerf Operatives" thread's deadline was going to be missed this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmSlash Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 (edited) Exfiltrate can be easily countered by most classes (e.g. Electro Net, Grapple, most roots, etc.). Yes, it closes distance quickly, but it doesn't provide much mitigation unless you're specced correctly and it can be countered by anyone experienced if they play their cards right. Edit (Additional sauce.) Except you forget you have your shield or bubble what ever it is oh and you can heal no matter what spec you are. It is a broken power making you guys unstoppable PERIOD. Shield Probe absorbs a moderate amount of damage. "Moderate" is around 10-15k damage at best. Not very much in the grand scheme of things. Yes, operatives can heal in each spec, but the only heal that we'd realistically be able to use in a Huttball arena is Kolto Probe, which is NOT enough to heal through an 2+ enemies tunneling the carrier. Even in Lethality with the Infusion instacast, it's still not enough to survive big burst damage. If a shadow/assassin can't go invis with the ball then an op should not be able to roll with it. Roll should be like force sprint its on a cooldown and does not allow huge gaps to be covered. This confuses me... Edit 2 : Electric Boogaloo Why did I respond seriously to this..? Edited July 12, 2015 by lmSlash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joesixxpack Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 (edited) It *********** blows my mind how overpowered that roll is. In hutball they should not be able to roll with the ball period. Yet i see them roll from the upper level to the touchdown in one simple roll. ::snip:: Nah we do the 2 rolls then have to walk a few steps. Total bull****, buff pls BW so we can cross the line from the top with 2. Edited July 12, 2015 by Joesixxpack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJBono Posted July 12, 2015 Author Share Posted July 12, 2015 I forgot you guys have to have the upper hand to win. That's cool. It is an over powered move and needs to be addressed for "Balance" sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmSlash Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 I forgot you guys have to have the upper hand to win. That's cool. It is an over powered move and needs to be addressed for "Balance" sake. Would you like some cheese with that whine, sir? Tell me more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJBono Posted July 12, 2015 Author Share Posted July 12, 2015 Would you like some cheese with that whine, sir? Tell me more. Nah Im good. It is not a whine either. It is just addressing what I feel is a broken power. I get you probably are unable to play with anything that is not FOTM. Hey that's on you. If it were up to me I would rather buff the powers I listed to make it something of a comparable. Hell if I had my way I would give Mara/Sents a huge buff to make them scary like the were prenerf bats instead of sabers. The devs love Ops and see to it they are going to be unstoppable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmSlash Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 (edited) I get you probably are unable to play with anything that is not FOTM. Hey that's on you. I won't engage in a debate with someone who dismisses those who disagree with him as FOTM re-rollers. The majority of players who care about this sort of thing see Exfiltrate as a balanced skill that doesn't require much/any change. (look up every other post that says "nerf operatives" or "the roll is OP, pls nerf" and you'll see more people in defense of Operatives than opposed to them). Whether you like it or not, you're the minority, and I doubt the devs will cater to your inability to handle Operatives. But hey...what do I know? The devs ARE pretty good at dumbing things down for those who can't adapt. Edited July 12, 2015 by lmSlash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuiveringPotato Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 (edited) Nah Im good. It is not a whine either. It is just addressing what I feel is a broken power. I get you probably are unable to play with anything that is not FOTM. Hey that's on you. If it were up to me I would rather buff the powers I listed to make it something of a comparable. Hell if I had my way I would give Mara/Sents a huge buff to make them scary like the were prenerf bats instead of sabers. The devs love Ops and see to it they are going to be unstoppable. "The devs love ops" Which class has been the most-nerfed class in the history of the game again? But seriously, use roots, for the love of God. If your class doesn't have a reliable one (really only merc?), that's your class' problem, and not operative's. Edited July 12, 2015 by QuiveringPotato Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake_Chambers Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 I forgot you guys have to have the upper hand to win. It's scoundrels who need the upper hand, operatives use tactical advantage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RooRider Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 I wish the bads who write these "Nerf Operative" threads would actually go and play operative, then we could get some "Buff Operative" threads happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmSlash Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 I wish the bads who write these "Nerf Operative" threads would actually go and play operative, then we could get some "Buff Operative" threads happening. I second this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomius Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 I wish the bads who write these "Nerf Operative" threads would actually go and play operative, then we could get some "Buff Operative" threads happening. Oh please. I have a scoundrel who i play regularly and its easy mode. At one point me and another guy were able to hold off 6 of the enemy at mid in novare whilst our team was at east. All i did was interrupt > roll > heal > roll back. They couldn't kill us or stop us. Its not the distance that's the problem, its the immunity to everything tied to it. HO > Can be stunned + damaged Force speed > Can be stunned + damaged Leap > Requires a TARGET (+ can be stunned if not veng) and is buggy as hell. Yet here is a stealth class with already a powerful stealth escape, who can then roll away completely immune to stuns, roots, slows and damage. Keep roll, remove the immunity. Roll is also used as a DCD rather than an escape which further supports that it needs a change. The only counter to roll is E-net (which the effect can be broken anyway and has a long CD) is tied to one of the weakest pvp classes who you can slaughter as a stealth class. If you want to keep the immunities, then take away some of the healing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xX-Archangel-Xx Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 You'd have a persuasive argument if it weren't for the fact that in Update 2.7 (which came out 4/8/14, OVER A YEAR AGO), they DID change Scamper/Exfiltrate. Now it doesn't cost energy, but it can only be used twice before going on a 10-second cooldown. And if your team lets an enemy ball-carrier get to the ramp, it's not the developers' fault that they then are able to get into the endzone. True and tbh is over a year operatives just disappear wjile rolling from edges making electro net and other **** completely useless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrikFassbauer Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 At one point me and another guy were able to hold off 6 of the enemy at mid in novare whilst our team was at east. All i did was interrupt > roll > heal > roll back. They couldn't kill us or stop us. Your effort will be badmouthed with an "oh, then this were BAD players" - in an efford to make the Scoundrel / Operative look weaker than it really is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xX-Archangel-Xx Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Oh please. I have a scoundrel who i play regularly and its easy mode. At one point me and another guy were able to hold off 6 of the enemy at mid in novare whilst our team was at east. All i did was interrupt > roll > heal > roll back. They couldn't kill us or stop us. Its not the distance that's the problem, its the immunity to everything tied to it. HO > Can be stunned + damaged Force speed > Can be stunned + damaged Leap > Requires a TARGET (+ can be stunned if not veng) and is buggy as hell. Yet here is a stealth class with already a powerful stealth escape, who can then roll away completely immune to stuns, roots, slows and damage. Keep roll, remove the immunity. Roll is also used as a DCD rather than an escape which further supports that it needs a change. The only counter to roll is E-net (which the effect can be broken anyway and has a long CD) is tied to one of the weakest pvp classes who you can slaughter as a stealth class. If you want to keep the immunities, then take away some of the healing. problem is in this game stealth classes have too many tools compared to non stealth, thats why game is unbalanced e will continue to be till the end. But majority of ppl will mock you if u call for a slight nerf o op's. Well community sucks enough, so, i will leave you bb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmbuddah Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Exfiltrate can be easily countered by most classes (e.g. Electro Net, Grapple, most roots, etc.). Yes, it closes distance quickly, but it doesn't provide much mitigation unless you're specced correctly and it can be countered by anyone experienced if they play their cards right. Edit (Additional sauce.) Shield Probe absorbs a moderate amount of damage. "Moderate" is around 10-15k damage at best. Not very much in the grand scheme of things. Yes, operatives can heal in each spec, but the only heal that we'd realistically be able to use in a Huttball arena is Kolto Probe, which is NOT enough to heal through an 2+ enemies tunneling the carrier. Even in Lethality with the Infusion instacast, it's still not enough to survive big burst damage. This confuses me... Edit 2 : Electric Boogaloo Why did I respond seriously to this..? Lol, all they have to do is use their cc breaker, and god roll to victory. Not only did they break your hinder but they will ignore all your damage. Honestly the roll needs to be toned down. 3 seconds of invincibility every 13 is too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Well operatives are not OP but yes; roll is a very strong tool. The thing is, it is one tool the operative has to stand up to the overall over performing classes. That and purge, and purge is on another class as well but that would be one if the big 3 and one that really has a hard time with operatives. Just to be honest but that's why I started using mine. After endlessly facing PTS and DOT inquistors; it was either that or join them. On my slinger, operatives were the least of my worries and that's saying something about a class that was once one of my counters. Roll probably will have something coming to it, but other things should be dealt with first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glower Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 (edited) In hutball they should not be able to roll with the ball period. Yet i see them roll from the upper level to the touchdown in one simple roll. While the sins and sorcs can do the same from that ledge, i agree... This map is not designed with teleporting rolls in the mind. Firepit? Roll! Acid? Roll! DPS swarmed around? Double roll! They are more tanky and more useful than full tank with a ball. Edited July 12, 2015 by Glower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glower Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 (edited) Exfiltrate can be easily countered by most classes (e.g. Electro Net, Grapple, most roots, etc.). Yes, it closes distance quickly, but it doesn't provide much mitigation unless you're specced correctly and it can be countered by anyone experienced if they play their cards right. Nah, u cant catch them while they roll in mid tree. You need to do it VERY carefully and you have very little time for second attempt on huttball map. 30-40 sec cd vs smart roll? Its not easy at all. Edited July 12, 2015 by Glower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joesixxpack Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Nah Im good. It is not a whine either. It is just addressing what I feel is a broken power. I get you probably are unable to play with anything that is not FOTM. Hey that's on you. If it were up to me I would rather buff the powers I listed to make it something of a comparable. Hell if I had my way I would give Mara/Sents a huge buff to make them scary like the were prenerf bats instead of sabers. The devs love Ops and see to it they are going to be unstoppable. > DPS Ops > FOTM lol pick one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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