There's a special place in hell for....

[Miyran]

I'm more worried about the people who can't seem to differentiate between the real world and the gaming world when it comes to social standards. Your are presented with two very different plains of operation.

 

Is killing a player bad? Is that poor social standards even though its allowed by the game?

 

Your hung up on a chest when there are clearly more reprehensible areas in the game.

[ikinai]

I'm more worried about the people who can't seem to differentiate between the real world and the gaming world when it comes to social standards. Your are presented with two very different plains of operation.

 

Is killing a player bad? Is that poor social standards even though its allowed by the game?

 

Your hung up on a chest when there are clearly more reprehensible areas in the game.

 

Also, in the game we're supposedly at war or very close to it. Why in the world would you let your enemy get supplies or money easily?

[Miyran]

Also, in the game we're supposedly at war or very close to it. Why in the world would you let your enemy get supplies or money easily?

 

Because "it's a game, it's not real"; just like that chest and their entitlement to it.

[ikinai]

Because "it's a game, it's not real"; just like that chest and their entitlement to it.

 

Oh yeah, that's right. My RP is showing, I should probably cover that up.

[Miyran]

Oh yeah, that's right. My RP is showing, I should probably cover that up.

 

Stop flashing. You might offend someone.

[Thoronmir]

Why? Because it wasn't his. He may have thought about buying it but until he takes it down off the shelf and places it into his cart it's fair game to any shopper who wants it.

Not that I necessarily disagree with this real-life perspective, but that's not the complaint in this thread. Sure, if I'm just standing around staring at a chest or node, by all means take it. For the record, I'm among those who (a) send in my Companion to keep the mobs busy (or not if I'm on my Sage or Sorc ... that Force Armor is great), (b) grab chest/node/quest item, then © fight the mobs.

 

But I have a hard time equating actively clearing the threat at an item and standing in a store staring at a box of Cheetos. I suppose the better analogy would be to interpose some hurdle to the Cheetos that the other guy is removing and you swoop in to grab up all that cheesy goodness. Like, perhaps, if there are boxes of Triscuits in the way, which the other guy clears and, before he has a chance to drop those noxious squares of burlap, you reach in and snag the prize.

 

I adhere to a simple MMO ethos. Among the tenets of my creed is that I avoid being the reason someone else doesn't have a good time. Sometimes, being the source of another player's displeasure is unavoidable. Every time I land a spot in a PuG, there's some guy moping because his queue hasn't popped. But if I can avoid disrupting another's fun without disrupting my own, I will.

 

Honestly, there is nothing in any node or chest that could ever cause me to come here and complain. Someone pikes a chest from me, I may mutter a few expletives to myself and reach for the Ignore list. But that's as far as it goes. Part of prioritizing my fun is not ceding power to other players.

[Reno_Tarshil]

Not that I necessarily disagree with this real-life perspective, but that's not the complaint in this thread. Sure, if I'm just standing around staring at a chest or node, by all means take it. For the record, I'm among those who (a) send in my Companion to keep the mobs busy (or not if I'm on my Sage or Sorc ... that Force Armor is great), (b) grab chest/node/quest item, then © fight the mobs.

 

But I have a hard time equating actively clearing the threat at an item and standing in a store staring at a box of Cheetos. I suppose the better analogy would be to interpose some hurdle to the Cheetos that the other guy is removing and you swoop in to grab up all that cheesy goodness. Like, perhaps, if there are boxes of Triscuits in the way, which the other guy clears and, before he has a chance to drop those noxious squares of burlap, you reach in and snag the prize.

 

I adhere to a simple MMO ethos. Among the tenets of my creed is that I avoid being the reason someone else doesn't have a good time. Sometimes, being the source of another player's displeasure is unavoidable. Every time I land a spot in a PuG, there's some guy moping because his queue hasn't popped. But if I can avoid disrupting another's fun without disrupting my own, I will.

 

Honestly, there is nothing in any node or chest that could ever cause me to come here and complain. Someone pikes a chest from me, I may mutter a few expletives to myself and reach for the Ignore list. But that's as far as it goes. Part of prioritizing my fun is not ceding power to other players.

 

A Box of Triscuits would almost never be next to a Bag of Cheetohs in any store, and if by some chance it is, that's lazy stocking by the store because in majority of grocery stores I've shopped at items are stocked neatly next to each other in an orderly fashion for anyone to reach over and grab if they want.

 

I'm sorry but your analogy just doesn't really work in a real life setting. It doesn't work because of what I stated above and for the simple fact that if someone is at the shelf and actively going thru the food there reaching for a bag behind several boxes, odds are the other person won't be able to reach in and grab the bag without pushing the other guy away first, that wouldn't happen because you would go to jail for assault or worse. That doesn't apply to this thread because you arn't causing the other player any sort of in game harm to get to something that hasn't been touched by anyone.

[mikebevo]

I have no problem if someone gets the chest before me. It isn’t mine. I just grab it first. However, I will not grab a chest from someone if I believe they are after it.

 

What does annoy me is people stealing objectives. I am talking about areas where you can’t get the objective in combat. So you are fighting mob and someone else grabs it. Since 12x came out I leveled a sawbones to 60. I had some under-geared, under-level jerk following me around on a couple different planets stealing objectives. He would set back and wait for me to attack and then run in and get it. I changed instances he would eventually find me. Finally on Hoth I had enough, set companion on crewskills (because I didn’t want to kill mob) went in and sure enough here comes under-gear sentinel. I was only using basic attack. Waited until he ran past towards objective and I hit disappearing act. 2 strongs were soon attacking him. He got the objective, but died before he could get away clean. Never saw him again.

[HelinCarnate]

This whole thread has made me have a change of heart. I used to be ok with people who grabbed loot boxes if I was fighting a mob nearby since I was able to get it but chose not to. I also avoided doing so since it was kind of a jerk move. Now, every time I see someone fighting a mob next to something I can grab I will grab it in hopes that it is the OP. Sorry in advance to everyone else.

[branmakmuffin]

They are both crimes. They have different punishments.

So we have various "crimes' in TOR, (i.e. violations of the rules) ranging from the most egregious (whatever that may be, maybe continually stalking and harassing another player) to the least egregious (naming a character Lord'monkey, for example). Looting a security chest another player thinks is theirs is not even on that list since it's not a violation of the rules at all. It''s merely something that players find mildly annoying, maybe akin to burping in a crowded elevator after a meal of fish and garlic.

Edited June 25, 2015 by branmakmuffin

[BlueShiftRecall]

Ehh the chests don’t really bother me to much but stealing objectives really grinds my gears when you can’t do it whilst in combat. Though the one time it really really got to me was on Rishi doing the datacron quest on my sorc. It was late and there were only 5 people on my instance, perfect time to sit and wait for Wupp to pop up by killing that mob over and over. Must have waited and killed the other grophets for about 50min until Wupp finally spawned I was standing right next to him as you have to attack him before he targets you and a spilt second before I clicked attack a mara leapt in out of no where and aggro’ed him. I remember sitting there like a stunned mullet, beaten by nothing more than a split second after having waited for nearly 50 minutes. I said some choice words to myself before blocking the mara and logging off no point in saying anything to him...

[Max_Killjoy]

Why not? People play characters in games to get away from their real life sometimes. I don't want to "just be me" cuz "out there" I'm not a professional athlete or an elite military sniper or a car thief, but "in here" I can be.

 

Also, if I have 20 characters should they all behave and act the same? You're telling me that for a Dark V character who murders innocents is somehow not allowed to "steal" chests and objectives? If you really think this then every game should have one character and no more and it's an exact match to how the person is "out there", right?

 

But, if you truly believe this, and if *you* are no different "in here" than "out there" then I could never be your friend cuz I'd always be worried that I'm not tipping the waiter enough or I didn't give up my seat to the old lady quickly enough. You'd always be on my case for everything and I'd be constantly stressed out over it. No, I wouldn't want to know you at all "out there".

 

I really think you need to get off your podium and take a step back if you're slagging others and their morals in their real lives for tiny things that happen in a game.

 

I know who I am and what kind of person I am, you don't, and it's absolutely insulting and disgusting that you can claim to know otherwise based on something I, or anyone, did in a game and come to a place like this and freely and anonymously try and rip them apart and say I, and they, are such horrible people.

 

TL;DR - Judging peoples' entire moral compass based on something you don't like and tearing them apart anonymously is the real problem and says a lot more about you than any of them. You're out here taking a lot of time and effort to actively abuse people.

 

Treating other actual human beings like dirt "because that's what my character would do" is a really thin excuse.

[Max_Killjoy]

I'm more worried about the people who can't seem to differentiate between the real world and the gaming world when it comes to social standards. Your are presented with two very different plains of operation.

 

Is killing a player bad? Is that poor social standards even though its allowed by the game?

 

Your hung up on a chest when there are clearly more reprehensible areas in the game.

 

If that player hasn't actively and willingly entered into PvP, then yes, attacking another PC is bad.

 

And it's funny that people talk about "can't differentiate", when the lack of discernment in this whole thing involves not being able to tell that there's a real person behind some of those other characters you're interacting with.

 

Do whatever you want to the NPCs, they don't feel a thing.

Edited June 25, 2015 by Max_Killjoy

[branmakmuffin]

If that player hasn't actively and willingly entered into PvP, then yes, attacking another PC is bad.

You can't attack another player character unless it is flagged, which means the players has chosen to willingly enter into PvP (current bogus claims of how to involuntarily flag a character notwithstanding).\

 

And it's funny that people talk about "can't differentiate", when the lack of discernment in this whole thing involves not being able to tell that there's a real person behind some of those other characters you're interacting with.

The lack of "discernment" lies with those who don't seem to able to differentiate between a game and real-world actions.

 

wow...this is still going on?

Yes, in part because people like you post "Is this still going on?"

Edited June 25, 2015 by branmakmuffin

[Aumvaar]

Also, in the game we're supposedly at war or very close to it. Why in the world would you let your enemy get supplies or money easily?

 

This argument, however, doesn't hold water when you're talking about planets like Dromund Kaas & so on. Even on Makeb, I haven't seen a single Republican player in 3.5 hours of gaming this afternoon ... just other Imperials. I almost never see opposing players *anywhere* I'm out leveling.

 

So, a lot of the time someone pulls this move, they're pulling it on someone from their own faction.

[branmakmuffin]

This argument, however, doesn't hold water when you're talking about planets like Dromund Kaas & so on. Even on Makeb, I haven't seen a single Republican player in 3.5 hours of gaming this afternoon ... just other Imperials. I almost never see opposing players *anywhere* I'm out leveling.

 

So, a lot of the time someone pulls this move, they're pulling it on someone from their own faction.

It's a silly justification anyway, given that no more justification than "Hey, you were too slow to grab it yourself, so now it's mine" is needed.

[Max_Killjoy]

This argument, however, doesn't hold water when you're talking about planets like Dromund Kaas & so on. Even on Makeb, I haven't seen a single Republican player in 3.5 hours of gaming this afternoon ... just other Imperials. I almost never see opposing players *anywhere* I'm out leveling.

 

So, a lot of the time someone pulls this move, they're pulling it on someone from their own faction.

 

Which kinda sticks a pin in the "I'm just role-playing" excuse, doesn't it?

[PetFish]

Treating other actual human beings like dirt "because that's what my character would do" is a really thin excuse.

 

If I'm playing a game like Call of Duty I should just stand there cuz in real life I don't kill people?

 

Go ahead, keep judging everyone's "real life" morals based on make-believe stuff you see, you're the real problem.

[aerockyul]

I would do it in real life too. If they haven't picked up what they want off the shelf and it's something I want, I will say excuse me and grab it.

 

Please, please, please, go into a store with a friend recording you doing this, with reaction shots, and upload them for all of us to see. If a single person says nothing and moves on with no reaction, you can win the thread and it can be closed (hopefully).

 

Rules (to make your real life boast mean something to the in game experience):

 

Taking anything from someone browsing doesn't count (someone in game passes a mob and chest/node without attacking or moving towards the chest/node, it's obviously fair game)

 

It has to be what they want, as your chosen words indicate you know the person already wants what you're about to take from them (you see someone in game engaged with a mob and/or chest/node, knowing full well that chest/node is their goal, yet you take it anyway)

 

Also, it has to be the only item available (the person will have to wait for a restock). The amount of time something takes to respawn/restock in game/RL is irrelevant, since time is relative to the person you are taking it from.

[Reno_Tarshil]

Please, please, please, go into a store with a friend recording you doing this, with reaction shots, and upload them for all of us to see. If a single person says nothing and moves on with no reaction, you can win the thread and it can be closed (hopefully).

 

Rules (to make your real life boast mean something to the in game experience):

 

Taking anything from someone browsing doesn't count (someone in game passes a mob and chest/node without attacking or moving towards the chest/node, it's obviously fair game)

 

It has to be what they want, as your chosen words indicate you know the person already wants what you're about to take from them (you see someone in game engaged with a mob and/or chest/node, knowing full well that chest/node is their goal, yet you take it anyway)

 

Also, it has to be the only item available (the person will have to wait for a restock). The amount of time something takes to respawn/restock in game/RL is irrelevant, since time is relative to the person you are taking it from.

 

Your challenge doesn't work because you have to know what people are after when they are shopping and I'm not a mind reader so if I see someone looking at something random on a shelf I could pick up the wrong item and it wouldn't prove anything.

 

The only way to know what they are after would be them picking up said item (Tag/Loot/Click) and moving along. And at that point it still doesn't work because they claimed it by (Tagging/Looting/Clicking) and that it is theirs. If I try to take it then it would be stealing, which you can't do in-game once someone tags/clicks or loots something. Until everything is a free for all until touched individually.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Reno_Tarshil

[Qouivandes]

"

"Let It Go"

 

The snow glows white on the mountain tonight

Not a footprint to be seen

A kingdom of isolation,

And it looks like I'm the queen.

 

The wind is howling like this swirling storm inside

Couldn't keep it in, heaven knows I tried!

 

Don't let them in, don't let them see

Be the good girl you always have to be

Conceal, don't feel, don't let them know

Well, now they know!

 

Let it go, let it go

Can't hold it back anymore

Let it go, let it go

Turn away and slam the door!

 

I don't care

What they're going to say

Let the storm rage on,

The cold never bothered me anyway!

 

It's funny how some distance

Makes everything seem small

And the fears that once controlled me

Can't get to me at all!

 

It's time to see what I can do

To test the limits and break through

No right, no wrong, no rules for me I'm free!

 

Let it go, let it go

I am one with the wind and sky

Let it go, let it go

You'll never see me cry!

 

Here I stand

And here I'll stay

Let the storm rage on!

 

My power flurries through the air into the ground

My soul is spiraling in frozen fractals all around

And one thought crystallizes like an icy blast

I'm never going back,

The past is in the past!

 

Let it go, let it go

When I'll rise like the break of dawn

Let it go, let it go

That perfect girl is gone!

 

Here I stand

In the light of day

Let the storm rage on,

The cold never bothered me anyway!

 

edit: added a "

Edited June 26, 2015 by Qouivandes

[Aumvaar]

Which kinda sticks a pin in the "I'm just role-playing" excuse, doesn't it?

 

Yes, but then I've never used that excuse for this sort of thing -- because I don't do it -- nor have I accepted the blithe claim of "roleplaying" when one is simply being a jerk.

 

However, in the grand scheme of things ... who freekin' cares. It's pixels in a video game. People need to get over pixels in video games.

[aerockyul]

Your challenge doesn't work because you have to know what people are after when they are shopping and I'm not a mind reader so if I see someone looking at something random on a shelf I could pick up the wrong item and it wouldn't prove anything.

 

The only way to know what they are after would be them picking up said item (Tag/Loot/Click) and moving along. And at that point it still doesn't work because they claimed it by (Tagging/Looting/Clicking) and that it is theirs. If I try to take it then it would be stealing, which you can't do in-game once someone tags/clicks or loots something. Until everything is a free for all until touched individually.

 

Whatever conditions you or I apply to the scenario don't matter, we both know you would never actually do it. The point is the reactions would tell you what that society thinks about that behavior. In game, most players (society) do not generally react positively to you taking the item they are obviously working towards. You're not stupid (obtuse, certainly), we all know how the game mechanics work. Your and others' justifications for taking things that others are OBVIOUSLY working towards while you skip on the harder work is not "right" behavior, and you know it, because you wouldn't actually do the same thing in real life. Knowing something is wrong but doing it anyway is immoral by definition. You are constantly arguing in this thread that what you are doing is amoral (no right or wrong, period), yet the reactions of your fellow gamers should have long ago registered to you that there is definitely a right and wrong in these situations. Taking advantage of people, stepping on people, taking things from them that they are working toward specifically while you do NO work--these are not "right" behaviors. You're getting ahead at the expense of others (yes, humans have been doing it throughout history) which can definitely make you "successful" but makes you no less an immoral jerk (IN THE GAME. You may or may not actually be the same thing in real life, I don't know you personally)

[Reno_Tarshil]

Whatever conditions you or I apply to the scenario don't matter, we both know you would never actually do it. The point is the reactions would tell you what that society thinks about that behavior. In game, most players (society) do not generally react positively to you taking the item they are obviously working towards. You're not stupid (obtuse, certainly), we all know how the game mechanics work. Your and others' justifications for taking things that others are OBVIOUSLY working towards while you skip on the harder work is not "right" behavior, and you know it, because you wouldn't actually do the same thing in real life. Knowing something is wrong but doing it anyway is immoral by definition. You are constantly arguing in this thread that what you are doing is amoral (no right or wrong, period), yet the reactions of your fellow gamers should have long ago registered to you that there is definitely a right and wrong in these situations. Taking advantage of people, stepping on people, taking things from them that they are working toward specifically while you do NO work--these are not "right" behaviors. You're getting ahead at the expense of others (yes, humans have been doing it throughout history) which can definitely make you "successful" but makes you no less an immoral jerk (IN THE GAME. You may or may not actually be the same thing in real life, I don't know you personally)

 

But I would do it. If I wouldn't, I would flat out say I wouldn't.

 

There is no morals involved and here is why.

 

What you and everyone on the OP's side continue to ignore is the fact that in this video game, there is an open world with players in it all trying to do the same objective. It is a race. In a race, you are all trying to get to first place before everyone else. It doesn't matter how you get there as long as it is legal and allowed withing the game's laws and boundaries.

 

The First Place Goals in this race are Any of the Three or or All of the Three:

 

-Enemy NPCs

-Quest Objectives

-Security Chests

 

In the open world by themselves they belong to no one until a player comes along to one of these items on this list (or all 3 at the same time if they are truly skilled and not bad at the game.) Once a player has reached one of these items on this list and has completed the necessary steps involved within each separate item, it now belongs to them.

 

-If you tag an Enemy NPC with a damaging attack, it is yours.

-If you successfully click a quest objective, it is yours.

-if you successfully loot a security chest, it is yours.

 

It doesn't matter if you saw it first or started to clear out mobs around various items, until you actually touch it. You can not claim it as your own. And if someone gets to it first, too bad. They were better and faster than you. You can act mad, but you can't be mad because it wasn't yours to begin with.

 

Also they cannot steal from you once it's in your possession.

 

Same as in real life. Until a shopper reaches and grabs an item off of a shelf, it is not theirs even if they were thinking about buying it. If someone comes along and grabs the item you thought about buying, too bad. You should have decided quicker if you wanted it or not. And you can't get mad at them because they were more decisive than you are.

 

Those are the facts and the cold hard truth to the matter.

[Doqtyr]

I tell myself, no matter how much I want to, I cannot fix the world. There will always be that person who thinks what they want is far more important than anything else, and there will always be some lame justification for it.

 

If I am lucky, I will be able to minimize the interaction I have with this person.

 

If I am very lucky, I will never have to become this person.