supafreak Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) Id very much love to play more GSF, but the barrier for entry is too high to be worth it. It's fun, but I weigh everything as cost/ benefit. Im saying this not as a newcomer to Swtor Ive been playing since beta off and on. I cant get into GSF, which is a shame because I feel it has allot of potential that allot of people new and old are completely missing out on. Imo the costs for upgrading are too inflated compared to the time required. The time required is inflated even more because queues are so slow. This is driving people away before they even try. Im not saying I want anything handed to me. Ive always been the type of gamer to say nobody should have anything handed to them. Nothing should be made too easy. But this isnt a handout, it's getting a playable ship(not a maxed out ship) in reasonable time, and increasing GSF population for everyone. Nobody is playing the darned thing. That is what it comes down to for me. Above all else, I want more people to play, but they wont for reasons stated here. Slow queues are a symptom of something else. GSF needs some life breathed into it. People wont play because queues dont pop. Queues dont pop because nobody plays. Nobody plays because it's too much of a time-sink for little reward (or reward many dont care about, but that's another thread for someone else). Something needs to be done. Im sitting on two options here A: Hope for GSF pops and try and get a few matches in a day when I can get on. At this rate it'll probably be months of grinding unless queues explode. When that's all over, it still wont matter because Ill just be a guy with a cool ship and still no gsf pops. B: Just dont play GSF and save myself the futile investment. 3.3 PvP economy changes sound like a breath of fresh air. Less grinding more playing. Perhaps something similar would promote GSF action and lower queue times. Perhaps a better tutorial Perhaps legacy wide requisition Perhaps an event like 12x the requisition for GSF,. That should get allot of people to try it out and at least level up a ship or two in the process. Feel free to disagree Edited June 19, 2015 by supafreak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommanderKiko Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Could be condensed into: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=8259672#post8259672 Seems two posters got the same idea at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pietrastor Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) Could be condensed into: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=8259672#post8259672 Seems two posters got the same idea at the same time. Well, if we're going with big expansion that's suppoused to "relaunch" the game, may as well throw in couple super-easy to do economy balance changes to increase the appeal of GSF. No better moment. PVE comms/gearing has been rebalanced and streamlined, PVP is going to happen in 3.3. 1-50 class-stories are getting streamlined/enhanced, it seems like they want the game to be "ready" for October and maximum of SW hype anticipating influx of new (casual) players. Good realistic and pro-active approach, but they can't forget about GSF. Edited June 19, 2015 by Pietrastor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verain Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I have several problems with your suggestions: 1)- Tutorial. This isn't an "economy" change. We've been begging for tutorial improvements: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=8097490 But Nemarus went the distance for realsies and actually asked the devs in person: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=807498 So yes, pretty much everyone wants this, but it may not be in the cards. It's certainly not a level of effort / economy change. 2)- You start with a reasonable statement ("generally too expensive") and then go to crazy crap like 12x req. That's totally out of line. One of the reasons the ground game needs incentives like that, is that most of the game takes place with a massive gate in power that you must get through to play. GSF has no such gate. You are playing the game right away, and you are in possession of solid components in hours. Unlike the ground game, where to participate in end game content requires leveling, farming, a bunch of economic stuff, and a large group to support, in GSF you have no such barrier. A reduction in cost would be great, but trivializing req with 12k or some other joke amount is just silly. The ground game has 12x XP on just class quests (not all quests), and more importantly, it doesn't have 12x epic drops, 12x pvp currency, etc. None of those things will ever happen, and neither should 12x rep. 3)- "Less grinding more playing". Unlike the ground game, which generally pushes you towards "more rewarding" activities (such as doing a certain quest, or staying in an area for better XP), and therefore minimizes the play you might want more of (playing in group content, queueing and playing pvp) because you feel (often correctly) that one form of play is "more correct"- GSF you are playing right away. And it doesn't take long to get your ship out of the "stock ship" situation. There's not any grinding in GSF to eliminate. The game is full pvp from the moment the queue pops. Also, "grinding" is a rather repetitive scenario- you do a less fun thing so that you have the ability to have more fun later. If the "less fun" thing is "play GSF" and the more fun thing is "play GSF", you by definition don't have grinding. Maybe if you got most of your req by having to farm an asteroid or some crap, sure- but your play goals don't change much when you don't need req versus when you do. 4)- Legacy wide req was denied early, and at this point they would be crapping on GSF players if they did manage whatever self imposed technical hurdles lie in that direction. There could still be a lot more crossover- for instance, they might enable you to transfer req from one character to another through a legacy bound token- but two hangars for each Legacy (one imp, one pub) would honestly be pretty messed up at this point. But I do agree with a lot of your points. I think that MANY economic tricks could encourage GSF play- for instance, a double req weekend from time to time would be pretty massive, or just adding a decent amount of fleet req to every single character in existence (and all later created characters)- my old suggestion was 10k, but anything around that would be great- or allowing a time period where you could "borrow" a few ships from an NPC. Basically, any kind of "festival" that encourages GSF play with GSF incentives would match up nicely with all the existing things that encourage other play styles temporarily. And you could absolutely bring the component cost down, especially on the priciest components. Upgrades going 1, 2.5, 5, 10, 15 can be pretty harsh, especially given that the game has plenty of "long tail" rewards in the form of *buying other components to try out other things*. Does it really need to cost 35k to max out your Pike's heavy lasers, given that you will eventually also max out your Quad lasers, if given more req? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phalczen Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 But I do agree with a lot of your points. I think that MANY economic tricks could encourage GSF play- for instance, a double req weekend from time to time would be pretty massive, or just adding a decent amount of fleet req to every single character in existence (and all later created characters)- my old suggestion was 10k, but anything around that would be great- or allowing a time period where you could "borrow" a few ships from an NPC. Basically, any kind of "festival" that encourages GSF play with GSF incentives would match up nicely with all the existing things that encourage other play styles temporarily. They did that with the Nar Shaaddaa casino event last year, but not this year, and I'm not sure why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommanderKiko Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 The economy changes to GSF that I feel would be ideal are as follows 1: All daily and weekly req items should be bind to legacy. Hangards should still remain separate. This would reward people who GSF consistantly across several alts. 2: All components should be free to start out with, low teir (non-choice) upgrades should cost less, high teir upgrades (choices) should cost more. This would help pilots both new and old with creating new characters and making builds, and still make upgrades a "Reward" 3: All type 1 "backbone" ships should be free. A standard bomber, standard striker, standard scout, and standard gunship. This way, new players could play with different classes and get a feel for what they like, older players would be able to server hop more easily and jump right into their prefered class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supafreak Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 I have several problems with your suggestions: 1)- Tutorial. This isn't an "economy" change. We've been begging for tutorial improvements: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=8097490 True, it isnt economy based, but I kinda just threw it in there along with the other possible improvements 2)- You start with a reasonable statement ("generally too expensive") and then go to crazy crap like 12x req. That's totally out of line... That was just brainstorming. I meant something in the spirit of 12x xp. It doesnt literally need to be 12x, it could be any number that makes sense, and for any amount of time, even just a weekend. ...GSF has no such gate. You are playing the game right away, and you are in possession of solid components in hours. Sure doesnt feel that way. Maybe it only took hours at launch when everyone was giving it a go. It might still take hours now, but must be spread out thin over weeks. It feels grindy as hell to me. It definitely feels gated. Lower the gate and more new people might play. Queues might get better and people could get more req/day and it might not feel so grindy. 4)- Legacy wide req was denied early, and at this point they would be crapping on GSF players if they did manage whatever self imposed technical hurdles lie in that direction. There could still be a lot more crossover- for instance, they might enable you to transfer req from one character to another through a legacy bound token- but two hangars for each Legacy (one imp, one pub) would honestly be pretty messed up at this point. Again, Im just spitballin here. Cheaper upgrades wouldnt make alt ships so tedious. The token thing would be nice too. Our job is to say what we'd like, within reason. It's up to the devs to tweak it and get the logistics right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supafreak Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 I have several problems with your suggestions: 1)- Tutorial. This isn't an "economy" change. We've been begging for tutorial improvements: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=8097490 True, it isnt economy based, but I kinda just threw it in there along with the other possible improvements 2)- You start with a reasonable statement ("generally too expensive") and then go to crazy crap like 12x req. That's totally out of line... That was just brainstorming. I meant something in the spirit of 12x xp. It doesnt literally need to be 12x, it could be any number that makes sense, and for any amount of time, even just a weekend. ...GSF has no such gate. You are playing the game right away, and you are in possession of solid components in hours. Sure doesnt feel that way. Maybe it only took hours at launch when everyone was giving it a go. It might still take hours now, but must be spread out thin over weeks. It feels grindy as hell to me. It definitely feels gated. Lower the gate and more new people might play. Queues might get better and people could get more req/day and it might not feel so grindy. 4)- Legacy wide req was denied early, and at this point they would be crapping on GSF players if they did manage whatever self imposed technical hurdles lie in that direction. There could still be a lot more crossover- for instance, they might enable you to transfer req from one character to another through a legacy bound token- but two hangars for each Legacy (one imp, one pub) would honestly be pretty messed up at this point. Again, Im just spitballin here. Cheaper upgrades wouldnt make alt ships so tedious. The token thing would be nice too. Our job is to say what we'd like, within reason. It's up to the devs to tweak it and get the logistics right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archonitek Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 3: All type 1 "backbone" ships should be free. A standard bomber, standard striker, standard scout, and standard gunship. This way, new players could play with different classes and get a feel for what they like, older players would be able to server hop more easily and jump right into their prefered class. The intro quest to gsf pretty much gives you a free gunship and bomber already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OKonst Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 The intro quest to gsf pretty much gives you a free gunship and bomber already. True, but we all know that the Hangar Interface doesn't really help new people in deciding where to spend these points most effectively - which may lead to severe waste of valuable points. Some time ago a new player on my server spent his 5000 fleet req. after his first ever game on a Dustmaker-Gunship. When I asked him why, he simply stated: "The ship model is awesome" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aakrea Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 True, but we all know that the Hangar Interface doesn't really help new people in deciding where to spend these points most effectively - which may lead to severe waste of valuable points. Some time ago a new player on my server spent his 5000 fleet req. after his first ever game on a Dustmaker-Gunship. When I asked him why, he simply stated: "The ship model is awesome" The first 2 ships I got were the warcarrier and condor. I didn't even consider the rampart/quarrel because they were cheep. I wanted the best of each class and thought that would be the more expensive one so when comparing ships I just looked at warcarrier vs sledge and condor vs comet breaker. I think a better way to do it would be getting a voucher for the rampart/quarrel (razorwire/mangler) instead of the req for the first mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommanderKiko Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 I was thinking sledge/quarrel for free in hangar, seeing as they are the "backbone" craft. Sledge teaches newbis about lockons, mines, and drones. Hence why i call it a backbone ship. Newbies can be useful while they learn, although it isn't exactly competitive, it would work well for training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAZIM Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 (edited) I was thinking sledge/quarrel for free in hangar, seeing as they are the "backbone" craft. Sledge teaches newbis about lockons, mines, and drones. Hence why i call it a backbone ship. Newbies can be useful while they learn, although it isn't exactly competitive, it would work well for training. Making the following ships baseline(free) would probably help new players get a feel for the ship type, without giving them the strongest possible variant right out of the gate. B-5 Decimus / SledgehammerGSS-5C Dustmaker / SGS-41B Comet Breaker Most players seem to view these as the inferior versions anyhow, which wouldn't be unexpected for a starting ship. It could help get rid of that feeling of downgrading that usually occurs later when you'd buy them normally. The free cheque (fleet req) method is okay but, when someone is new, mistakes will happen. The intro quest could be changed to give base ships 20k ship req each to eliminate some of the ramp up time. Edited June 26, 2015 by RAZIM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ligurio Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 I think a better way to do it would be getting a voucher for the rampart/quarrel (razorwire/mangler) instead of the req for the first mission. Please, no. On my latest char I chose to choose another ship because I wanted to try something new (and I know how I am.. give me a mangler and I won't fly anything else ) Just give the choice between a voucher or the points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyanothis Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 if we're looking at GSF economy it would be nice for there to be something useful to spend fleet/ship reqs non that isnt upgrades to components. Let us convert them into something else (fleet comms maybe) that we can then spend outside of GSF. Of course that would also need there to be a wider choice of things to spend fleet comms on - the 5 things you can buy from the PVP/GSF vendor vs the 18 things available with PVP commendations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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