Significant power shift @ the Harbinger

[Floplag]

They can't control who they play against. That said... I see plenty of bad premades as well. Guilds like Hustle, #Hacks, Midian, Lemon Party, Tauntauns would stomp them as well.

 

Should players in those guilds who may not enjoy arenas just retire from PvP altogether so they don't hurt some pugs feelings? You guys put down "regstars" but 75% of people in regs can barely even handle regs.

 

I queue solo mostly but when I get into matches like this I totally understand people who premade exclusively

 

Interesting comment though i wonder out of the supposed better groups, how often do you see them actually helping other players get better as opposed to complaining about noone in queue? I can think of one guy that has made that effort recently, one.

 

If those better groups would take a step back maybe one night out of the week and invite some of those better "regstars" to roll with them to learn ranked instead of farming them, the community would grow. But you don't see that do you? All you see is troll posts on fleet begging for lambs to queue for slaughter.

[ace_boogie]

Well, obviously I wasn't there, but by the numbers I'd say your teammates did reasonably well for the most part. It looks like the imps had three healers and turtled up at south. Your shadow probably guarded west the whole match and didn't see much action. The other shadow was probably a tank. Scoundrel was heals. The Guardian probably spent a good amount of time chasing the sins and sorcs and operatives all over the place. Meanwhile, the lone sage rotation was something along the lines of DoT, AOE, AOE, AOE, AOE, DoT, AOE...etc. Huge numbers! I am the greatest and you all suck!!

 

Sorry, but I get a little incensed at the implication that damage numbers are more important than objectives. Maybe if you replace a couple DPS with a couple more AOE and DoT spam sages you could break the turtle shell, but that's hardly fair to blame your teammates for the state of class balance. You obviously are quite good at dealing damage with your sage, but it's not fair at all to imply that your teammates sucked.

 

Ah the old "damage doesn't tell the whole story" trope.

 

Its a valid point. Maybe I'm just a dot spreading baddie. I definitelymconsider myself only slightly above average. But if maybe just 1 of these guys played up to my level of badness, maybe we still lose... But maybe we don't get farmed? Turtle matches are the easiest one to farm huge numbers in and not one person managed to get even half of me

 

In any case, my team arguably had the more FOTM comp. 2 VGs, 2 shadows, 2 scoundrel healers(one who barely managed 400k heals between his 8 deaths).. I don't think we get stomped like we did if they were "good".

Edited June 1, 2015 by ace_boogie

[teclado]

I didn't call you a baddie, I said you are quite good. I'm just saying don't be so hard on those guys. Not every player and certainly not every class can put up the damage necessary to break a turtle. Also understand that there are a few of those guys on your team that have a legit reason for not hitting huge numbers (shadow tank, shadow node guard, guardian, scoundrel healer). I just don't see that as a valid reason to justify going premade as you stated.

 

EDIT: Also, I wouldn't say that the two VG did bad. They just were not on your level. That's no reason to rip them publicly like this.

Edited June 1, 2015 by teclado

[zZeroAgent]

Ah the old "damage doesn't tell the whole story" trope.

 

Its a valid point. Maybe I'm just a dot spreading baddie. But if maybe just 1 of these guys played up to my level of badness, maybe we still lose... But maybe we don't get farmed?

 

In any case, my team arguably had the more FOTM comp. 2 VGs, 2 shadows, 2 scoundrel healers... I don't think we get stomped like we did if they were "good".

 

That's because all you did is fluff damage. They have 3 healers, your DoTs do nothing. I mean, if you were TK then that's actually a little impressive. But if you were Balance, you literally did nothing. All that damage and you probably never managed to get anyone below 80% hp by yourself

 

When the team has multiple healers, burst specs are superior

[Jimmajamma]

The notion that premades should play against other premades is not, however. Which goes back to the original point. They're all regstars.

 

You're like a broken Yoko Ono record.

[ace_boogie]

That's because all you did is fluff damage. They have 3 healers, your DoTs do nothing. I mean, if you were TK then that's actually a little impressive. But if you were Balance, you literally did nothing. All that damage and you probably never managed to get anyone below 80% hp by yourself

 

When the team has multiple healers, burst specs are superior

 

Like this?

 

Damage is damage.

[ace_boogie]

Interesting comment though i wonder out of the supposed better groups, how often do you see them actually helping other players get better as opposed to complaining about noone in queue? I can think of one guy that has made that effort recently, one.

 

If those better groups would take a step back maybe one night out of the week and invite some of those better "regstars" to roll with them to learn ranked instead of farming them, the community would grow. But you don't see that do you? All you see is troll posts on fleet begging for lambs to queue for slaughter.

 

This I agree with... The one thing I always gave the dominant guild on my home server **** for was how they *****ed about no one in queue to play when they literally had just about every ranked capable player on the server on their roster.

[Floplag]

Like this?

 

Damage is damage.

 

Cant say i agree with this... ive seen a lot of people put up stupid damage numbers doing something as simple as spamming force storm or dot spreads that dont really take a lot of effort. No insult intended but not all damage is created equal

[ace_boogie]

Cant say i agree with this... ive seen a lot of people put up stupid damage numbers doing something as simple as spamming force storm or dot spreads that dont really take a lot of effort. No insult intended but not all damage is created equal

 

Lol...damned if I do and damned if I don't.

[Floplag]

Lol...damned if I do and damned if I don't.

 

no i dont mean it like that just saying you cant just say damage is damage. i care more about contributions that i do raw damage for example. i would have more respect for a guy that did less damage and got caps/defended that i would a guy that sat in the crowd and spammed. extreme examples i know... not implying anything.. just sayin

[teclado]

The biggest damage totals that I have ever seen have come from sages/sorcs after 3.0. Snips comes to mind. With that said, I'm not trying to imply that playing the class well takes no skill. Don't take offence, I will gladly compliment you on it. I've never been able to put up those kinds of numbers. I just don't agree with the assessment that the other players on your team were bad. You are really good with a really good class. Combine a good player with a good class and you get utter domination. Just give the rest of us a break, please?

[ace_boogie]

I respect winning no matter how it happens. The op or sin with low damage but a few solo kills and taken nodes will get my mvp vote. As will the node guard who calls and is able to delay multiple attackers.

 

Now despite these screenshots, I play my sage mostly as a healer. I can tell how bad my teams DPS is during a match by how much the opposite team freecasts on me. And sure enough the scoreboard will show it at the end. Damage isnt the end all be all... But usually in nonhuttball regs... It absolutely is. Whether it be dots or burst, the outgunned team usually loses. That's a fact.

Edited June 1, 2015 by ace_boogie

[xchristyyle]

I respect winning no matter how it happens. The op or sin with low damage but a few solo kills and taken nodes will get my mvp vote. As will the node guard who calls and is able to delay multiple attackers.

 

Now despite these screenshots, I play my sage mostly as a healer. I can tell how bad my teams DPS is during a match by how much the opposite team freecasts on me. And sure enough the scoreboard will show it at the end. Damage isnt the end all be all... But usually in nonhuttball regs... It absolutely is. Whether it be dots or burst, the outgunned team usually loses. That's a fact.

 

This.

[maverickmatt]

Now despite these screenshots, I play my sage mostly as a healer. I can tell how bad my teams DPS is during a match by how much the opposite team freecasts on me. And sure enough the scoreboard will show it at the end. Damage isnt the end all be all... But usually in nonhuttball regs... It absolutely is. Whether it be dots or burst, the outgunned team usually loses. That's a fact.

 

No. Not even close.

 

Reference the earlier post by some anonymous member of Hustle, where it was explicitly stated that objectives are secondary (and we wonder why more people do not pvp...).

 

You see, while one side of the ops group is parsing at mid, grabbing HUGE numbers that mean absolutely nothing.. the other side is frequently free to actually, you know... win the *********** match. So when I see some of these premades, I get a bit excited because it's easy comms. They may not care about winning and tactics because ZERRRRGGG MECHANICS DON'T MATTER I GOTZ DA HIGHEST DEEEPZZZ but some of us do, and it's easy to win those.

 

Premade or not, damage farming is the quickest path to a loss when facing opponents who understand the maps and actually pay attention to the strengths and weaknesses of the players on their team (*********** BLASPHEMY I KNOW RIGHT??!?!)

 

 

 

 

Also, PLZ PULL MOAR KSENIA.

Edited June 1, 2015 by maverickmatt

[Vember]

They can't control who they play against.

 

Umm yea, actually, they can. Queue ranked 4's, and I can 100% guarantee you will not face a pug.

[Vember]

You're like a broken Yoko Ono record.

 

Don't be scared of competition man, it's good for you.

[Janglor]

Its because Janglor and Duck left the Pub side of Harb, so we arent there to carry anymore.

[Jimmajamma]

Don't be scared of competition man, it's good for you.

 

so is yoga and i don't really see a point in doing that.

 

if people didn't run macros i would probably try to do a little group ranked, but they do and i don't. i don't even have a gaming mouse or any bullsh*t like that. all things equal a lot of players are still better than me, so with better equipment i would be at a much larger disadvantage before the matches even start.

 

it's about knowing your limitations. i had 2 tier 1 toons last season, so i wouldn't exactly say i'm a *******. that is probably my cap and i know it. i'm fine with it.

 

people like you come here and call people regstars and say they should be queueing ranked, yet you're probably the same type of person who after losing a solo match will tell some people "stick to regs sh*tter". i can't help it if you are too dense to see how the inequities that exist in regs exist in group ranked as well, so simply using an umbrella statement of "all groups should queue ranked" or whatever bs you keep saying makes you look a bit silly. teams farm in group ranked as much as they do in regs. that would be exacerbated if all 4-man groups were forced into ranked. the situation isn't as binary as you make it out to be, so for the sake of everyone just shut up, guy who talks a lot but doesn't put his toons in his sig.

 

- bronson 3:16

Edited June 2, 2015 by Jimmajamma

[alexsamma]

so is yoga and i don't really see a point in doing that.

 

if people didn't run macros i would probably try to do a little group ranked, but they do and i don't. i don't even have a gaming mouse or any bullsh*t like that. all things equal a lot of players are still better than me, so with better equipment i would be at a much larger disadvantage before the matches even start.

 

it's about knowing your limitations. i had 2 tier 1 toons last season, so i wouldn't exactly say i'm a *******. that is probably my cap and i know it. i'm fine with it.

 

people like you come here and call people regstars and say they should be queueing ranked, yet you're probably the same type of person who after losing a solo match will tell some people "stick to regs sh*tter". i can't help it if you are too dense to see how the inequities that exist in regs exist in group ranked as well, so simply using an umbrella statement of "all groups should queue ranked" or whatever bs you keep saying makes you look a bit silly. teams farm in group ranked as much as they do in regs. that would be exacerbated if all 4-man groups were forced into ranked. the situation isn't as binary as you make it out to be, so for the sake of everyone just shut up, guy who talks a lot but doesn't put his toons in his sig.

 

- bronson 3:16

 

You do not need macors for team ranked, simply setting up your focus target and target of target hotkeys will enable you to do everything that you need to in order to win team ranked.

 

Not that I really care, grouped ranked isn't for everyone and no one should ever feel forced to queue group ranked (though it will make you a better player and more than likely it will make you realize how shallow solo arena/regs are).

 

To the people who talk about "numbers not meaning everything," stop defending your lack of ability, in the game that K'senia linked he pulled 3-4x the amount of damage as everyone else on his team.... while I agree that a dot spec sage/sorc can out dps most classes, it should not be nearly to that magnitude.. (and really, a vigi guardian in the mid fight the entire match can easily farm dps); while objective play is important in regs there comes a point were you simply need to be able to pull the numbers. (2k+ dps is easily achievable in a game like that from tactics/vigi, it's frankly pathetic that anyone is defending those numbers).

[Jimmajamma]

You do not need macors for team ranked, simply setting up your focus target and target of target hotkeys will enable you to do everything that you need to in order to win team ranked.

 

Not that I really care, grouped ranked isn't for everyone and no one should ever feel forced to queue group ranked (though it will make you a better player and more than likely it will make you realize how shallow solo arena/regs are).

 

To the people who talk about "numbers not meaning everything," stop defending your lack of ability, in the game that K'senia linked he pulled 3-4x the amount of damage as everyone else on his team.... while I agree that a dot spec sage/sorc can out dps most classes, it should not be nearly to that magnitude.. (and really, a vigi guardian in the mid fight the entire match can easily farm dps); while objective play is important in regs there comes a point were you simply need to be able to pull the numbers. (2k+ dps is easily achievable in a game like that from tactics/vigi, it's frankly pathetic that anyone is defending those numbers).

 

i know you dont need to run macros to do team ranked, but a lot of players use them, so it puts those who aren't at a disadvantage from the jump. i understand how the focus target/modifier works, but its not as efficient as being able to multiple things with the push of a button. its just not.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Jimmajamma

[Pherdnut]

Actually I've found the complete opposite... On harbinger at least, imps are usually the players who won't play objectives, while reps will

 

Sometimes it flips in mid-match on Shadowlands. Like if you do really well against a strong team of imps they'll just start deathmatching and ignoring objectives. It's a Sith rage-quit I guess. But as I build more alts across all servers via the convenience of 12x and recently acquired double holostatues in my collections it's really different from server to server. Was really surprised at pub quality on Ebon Hawk, an RP server. I don't RP (not that there's anything wrong with that), but have some friends on there. Most games, even ones where the pubs were making fun of themselves for sucking, the skill levels were way above Shadowlands. It was still mids though so maybe luck of the draw.

[foxmob]

she usually does solo queue heal sage. and with a tank, she's pretty beastly, but otherwise, it's just fun poking the fool who solo queue'd pub side on JC. hehe

 

as a fellow solo, the dot specs are more practical since they're more self sufficient. personally, I feel like healing is a lost cause. you can't guard cuz you need to be at the hot spot. you can't take a node cuz...you can't kill anything. it's very frustrating. iunno why she healed at all. it made me want to kick puppies.

[The_Anghell]

Unless the other team is constantly dead.. if there's someone on the team doing 3-4 times the amount of damage as the other members.. it's useless damage. It's pretty clear they're not killing.. or not killing with any sort of efficiency. Now in 4v4's all those bleeds can be effective at putting strain on a single healer.. when paired with a burst dps. But ultimately without burst.. those dots are pretty ineffective if the other players even know their classes remotely well enough to have developed some type of survivability.

 

Many of us can choose to play our fotm op classes and spam dots.. putting up blinding numbers.. but that's very seldom going to win a match in an 8v8. 90% of the time if someone does that kind of damage in a regular objective based warzone.. they're not playing wisely for their team. And at the end of the game they look at the numbers and say 'if everyone else came close to my damage we'd have won.' But you know what? Some of those other players were probably somewhere trying to make an impact instead.

Edited June 2, 2015 by The_Anghell

[alexsamma]

Unless the other team is constantly dead.. if there's someone on the team doing 3-4 times the amount of damage as the other members.. it's useless damage. It's pretty clear they're not killing.. or not killing with any sort of efficiency. Now in 4v4's all those bleeds can be effective at putting strain on a single healer.. when paired with a burst dps. But ultimately without burst.. those dots are pretty ineffective if the other players even know their classes remotely well enough to have developed some type of survivability.

 

Many of us can choose to play our fotm op classes and spam dots.. putting up blinding numbers.. but that's very seldom going to win a match in an 8v8. 90% of the time if someone does that kind of damage in a regular objective based warzone.. they're not playing wisely for their team. And at the end of the game they look at the numbers and say 'if everyone else came close to my damage we'd have won.' But you know what? Some of those other players were probably somewhere trying to make an impact instead.

 

If four people pump out over 3k dps the other team is, 9 times out of 10, going to wipe, and with that level of pressure their dps are not going to be able to pressure your healers so your healers are going to stand there and lol their way to 3-4k hps (assuming the enemy team can pull the numbers). Numbers are not the end all be all, but they generally paint an accurate picture.

 

We can talk strategy all day long but anyone who attempts to argue that pulling sub 1k dps is "okay," especially in a healer heavy mid fight has already lost the battle.

Edited June 2, 2015 by alexsamma

[ace_boogie]

Unless the other team is constantly dead.. if there's someone on the team doing 3-4 times the amount of damage as the other members.. it's useless damage. It's pretty clear they're not killing.. or not killing with any sort of efficiency. Now in 4v4's all those bleeds can be effective at putting strain on a single healer.. when paired with a burst dps. But ultimately without burst.. those dots are pretty ineffective if the other players even know their classes remotely well enough to have developed some type of survivability.

 

Many of us can choose to play our fotm op classes and spam dots.. putting up blinding numbers.. but that's very seldom going to win a match in an 8v8. 90% of the time if someone does that kind of damage in a regular objective based warzone.. they're not playing wisely for their team. And at the end of the game they look at the numbers and say 'if everyone else came close to my damage we'd have won.' But you know what? Some of those other players were probably somewhere trying to make an impact instead.

 

With the massive "fluff" I did that at the very least pressured the healer... Shouldn't it have been easier for my superior burst spec teammates to finish off the enemies? Why is what I did not helping?

 

How is what they did more respectable?