Overpowered healings killing pvp

[leonlotus]

They can balance and nerf all they want, we will still see healers dictate the result of the match 90% of the time.

Matchmaking is the only thing that will actually balance sh*t out in the long run.

 

Unless you enjoy seeing 4 Sorc heals with the enemy while you have none.

 

Of course it is not funny.

I was telling that healers were becoming a crescent problem 2 years ago, as many others PvPers did.

I respect your opinion, because i saw you writing very well, imo, about PvP situations.

But when did we started talking so seriously about Matchmaking? Only recently. Why? Because it was not that dicatating in some previous versions. Its a Balance thing. You can see it in the history of the patches..buff after buff.

 

Yes, i agree that it would resolve the situation quickly. I just dont find it a real solution, because it will bring some bad aspects, imo, while not attacking the root of the problem. It can be better than nothing, but i dont like the idea of a even more restrictive system than it alredy is.

Edited February 2, 2016 by leonlotus

[Ruhun]

Of course it is not funny.

I was telling that healers were becoming a crescent problem 2 years ago, as many others PvPers did.

I respect your opinion, because i saw you writing very well, imo, about PvP situations.

But when did we started talking so seriously about Matchmaking? Only recently. Why? Because it was not that dicatating in some previous versions. Its a Balance thing. You can see it in the history of the patches..buff after buff.

 

The need for matchmaking rose out of the surge of people playing as Healers and Tanks.

It's not only Sorcs, Ops and Mercs too.

While only the Sorcs are OP it's still a loss or stalemate if the enemy has 3/4 healers and 2 tanks.

 

You MAY win, but only if your team is amazing at DPS.

Edited February 2, 2016 by Ruhun

[Chimerako]

Just played a wz against 3 healers and we had none. We won the wz 0 to 10. 7.5 million heals vs not even 1 million in self heals on our team. Heals arent op but stacking heals on a team does make the game boring. Some people dont like a challenge. Not too much you can do about that. Its the same reason ppl play the fotm.

[leonlotus]

Just played a wz against 3 healers and we had none. We won the wz 0 to 10. 7.5 million heals vs not even 1 million in self heals on our team. Heals arent op but stacking heals on a team does make the game boring. Some people dont like a challenge. Not too much you can do about that. Its the same reason ppl play the fotm.

 

I am here since 2012. Many changes occured.

Just before the actual 4.0 the healers were far more difficult to kill. DEVs recognized this, as they also told that Maras were underrepresented before it.

 

Things are different now. Healers are pretty much killable.

But like Ruhun said, the stacking of them still wins most of times. The DPS must be very superior than the healers, and ability is a rare thing now.

I have roam the US PvP servers. The best players i have seem before are gone. They did not left because of increased difficulty.. The WZ from 2 years ago were a place where ability counted much more, and it far more complex and intense.

They left because of balance. Fair is fair. And they dont want to loose to the system eveyday and being mocked by trash.

 

I too have won against 3 heals, but its much more easier on Civil War. Specially if they are entering with Tanks to Guard. Thats decisive.

Edited February 3, 2016 by leonlotus

[Ruhun]

I'm also starting to see a lot of bad players roll as Sorcs/Sages.

REALLY bad players that barely understand what the different maps are.

 

 

They don't self heal, use phasewalk, or barrier and use their bubble sometimes.

They don't CC either, and try to dps instead of trying to survive when I tunnel them.

 

So it looks like we'll be on even ground soon enough.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Ruhun

[ForceWelder]

It seems there is a growing consensus that healing is overtuned or overpopulated or some combination of both at the moment.

 

I keep hearing many counter-arguments that dps aren't doing there job. I think this is a fallacy because by that logic healers are the most amazing players right now and the left overs are mediocre and bad dps. Is that really possible? sounds implausible to me.

 

I actually unsubbed just a couple of days ago. PVE was never my thing and between the endless Alliance companion grind and PVP simply becoming unplayable I gave up on this game.

 

The issues for me is not with a single healer. With two healers the odds are no longer in your favor, but it is still manageable if the stars align and you have a good representation of burst class.

 

But throw in three healers on a team, and you might as well log. Because nobody is dying. Objectives become all but impossible to acquire, and the match will literally run to the final absolute second where some secondary warzone objective will dictate the winner or loser of the match.

 

And when you have guard and taunts added to the mix, it makes this situation even worse. Having two healers and a tank with a clue and you might as well have three healers on the team.

 

And then, you have the freaken immunity bubble. No class (healer, tank, or DPS) should get a complete free pass on any CC or damage. When you multiple healers on the same team, having this ability makes someone all but unkillable. Because once that person bubbles, they have several seconds to receive healing from not just themselves, but from other players.

 

This skill may serve a purpose in PVE. I'm sure it works great as an agro breaker if the healer pulls all the agro from their DPS companion. But in PVP, complete immunity has no place and it gives an unfair advantage to the chosen few classes with it.

 

The class immunity bubble should give a crazy amount of protection, but some damage should be able to go through to the player. No player should be able to pop a bubble when the are down to .001% health and a few seconds later walk away back to full health. That simply leaves to much of an exploit for PVP. And if an immunity bubble prevents all damage and CC, it should also prevent all outside healing as well. And if the sorc or sage is focused on keeping a bubble up, any healing received should be dramatically reduced.

 

It has probably been two seasons since I last played in ranked PVP. Truth be told I don't even miss it. And I am sure since I have left those ranks, the team make ups have only gotten worse and even more heavily favor a certain few classes.

Edited February 3, 2016 by ForceWelder

[Ruhun]

Immunity Bubble also grants the player immunity to everything for like 3 - 5 seconds AFTER it's gone, allowing them to self heal to full if they weren't being healed by another sorc already.

[Areys]

So, I haven't played since the good old days in 2012. Recently returning to the game I have really enjoyed the pvp. On my sentinel while saving up comms for gear, It was a challenge to kill sorc healers, but now that I'm full 208 & augmented, I can DPS down a sorc while he's standing in his circle healing himself. A guildmate asked how I can do so much and I gave him my gear layout and talents, now he's doing the same thing on his sentinel.

 

Now, I was also in a very good pvp guild back in 2012 <I AM LEGEND> on Prophecy Of the Five, however everyone quit, (Except Jakev) even the rival guilds we played against <Hoth Ski Patrol> <S Key> (Can't remember others), and all the PVP servers are light pop/dead, so I had to transfer to Harbinger to get any action ...

 

Joined a new pvp guild <Blue Octagon> and even when we fight an equally skilled pre-made I feel like the pvp mechanics are balanced like Marvel vs Capcom 2 (Everything is so broken it balances itself at top tier) and just comes down to who randomly got a crit, or who CC'd at the right time.

 

I think healers are fine, considering I can solo kill them, but I do agree when the entire team are sorcs and they have damage, main heals and off heals, it's stupid.There should be diminished returns when you receive targeted heals from multiple players, implementing this would balance teams with a bunch of off-heals.

 

Sorcs shouldn't be able to receive healing while they are in their own force bubble. Just like the guy above me said that new/returning players are coming back and playing sorc/sages, thus creating these 3 or 4 or 5 sorcs in a warzone. They get low HP, bubble and receive off heals and in that instance ... and only in that instance are they causing a imbalance issue. No other class can go invincible while healing to full.

 

Either way I have been playing MMOs long enough to just accept game flaws and look past imperfections and take it for what it is. If it dies I'll move on, if my class gets nerfed I'll play something else, if I start to hate it, play something else. For now tho, It's fun! I'll always be an awesome player, the game developers can't that away from me

[leonlotus]

I was also in a very good pvp guild back in 2012 <I AM LEGEND> on Prophecy Of the Five, however everyone quit

 

I can solo kill them, but I do agree when the entire team are sorcs and they have damage, main heals and off heals, it's stupid.

 

new/returning players are coming back and playing sorc/sages, thus creating these 3 or 4 or 5 sorcs in a warzone.

 

These are the problems everyone is agreeing.

Good ppl have quit in large scale, sorcs are killable but crossheal are stupidly oublanced, and now we have population problems.

No one can take our skill. But the game is now so boring, that I am going F2P soon, no matter what these chapters have to offer.

[leonlotus]

No player should be able to pop a bubble when the are down to .001% health and a few seconds later walk away back to full health.

 

Immunity Bubble also grants the player immunity to everything for like 3 - 5 seconds AFTER it's gone, allowing them to self heal to full if they weren't being healed by another sorc already.

 

Sorcs shouldn't be able to receive healing while they are in their own force bubble. They get low HP, bubble and receive off heals and in that instance ... and only in that instance are they causing a imbalance issue. No other class can go invincible while healing to full.

 

Nicely thought.

I like Bubble, because its a unique ability, but some diminish return, at least, is essential to make WZ balanced.

Edited February 4, 2016 by leonlotus

[Cretinus]

The main problem I see here is that all sorc_healer players are EXTREMELY skillled, while all DPS players are abysmal.

Even people who main a sorc_healer + a DPS are EXTREMELY skilled on their sorc_healer, but horribly bad when they play their DPS.

This must be a curse, cause the alternative explanation that sorc_healers are stupidly OP and make every submediocre moron shine is not an allowed option and should not be spoken out.

Edited February 4, 2016 by Cretinus

[Ruhun]

The main problem I see here is that all sorc_healer players are EXTREMELY skillled, while all DPS players are abysmal.

Even people who main a sorc_healer + a DPS are EXTREMELY skilled on their sorc_healer, but horribly bad when they play their DPS.

This must be a curse, cause the alternative explanation that sorc_healers are stupidly OP is not an allowed option and should not be spoken out.

 

I liked your mad rants more.

[Cretinus]

I liked your mad rants more.

 

It's more sophisticated this way.

[Savej]

I've been in a 3 dps + 1 heals team that beat 3 heals + 1 dps before. DPS needs a nerf.

[ForceWelder]

I've been in a 3 dps + 1 heals team that beat 3 heals + 1 dps before. DPS needs a nerf.

 

I have been in two matches too where a three healer team was beat by either a dps or 3 dps + one healer team. And in both cases, the losing team only had just one sorc healer. The other two were either OP or Merc. Both Matches were also on Mekab.

 

But arenas maps are different than the 8 v 8 maps. More obsticles and more debris leads to higher cases of line of sight issues. All the opposing team has to do is get to the bridge, split the opposing team with knockbacks, and they are likely to be able to focus down one of the players (if that focused player isn't a sorc or sage) before the other team mates can respond.

 

Because here is the secret to that situation. Healers aren't thinking about playing aggressively. They tend to focus on staying together and overhealing. Each one is thinking that the other players will do the dps. Whereas the dps team is thinking the complete opposite - scatter the enemy and pick them off one by one. And if there isn't sorc or sages, this approach can work.

 

But in most of the 8 v 8 maps, line of sight is rarely an issue. Divide and conquer is simply not an approach that can work because separating players only puts distance between them. It rarely creates line of sight issues where the healer has to take crucial time to realign themselves with their other team mates. If a healer is knocked out of range, at most it takes a second or two to get back in range and start healing again.

 

On the arena maps, it can take several seconds for a healer who has lost line of sight to be in a position to heal team mates and that makes for all the difference in the world.

 

It is a catch 22. 8 v 8 maps are larger and more open preventing the loss of line of sight and larger teams opens the door to more healers per team.

 

No 8 v 8 match should ever have more than two healers per team. At least not without some sort of diminishing returns on the healing that the team mates are receiving.

[skarvika]

I just want that damn immortality bubble gone for good. I want to know who thought it was a good idea to add an ability that makes the player (And hey can pop it on their teammates too! Fun!) literally immune to all damage? That's some god mode horsecrap and there should never be anything like that for any player in a game like this. PVP wouldn't be half as horrible as it is if that one ability alone was removed.

[foxmob]

No 8 v 8 match should ever have more than two healers per team. At least not without some sort of diminishing returns on the healing that the team mates are receiving.

 

you're talking about matchmaking here, not OP classes/roles. If precedent is any indication for future action, BW will not lift a finger to fix regs this way. Their sole concern for regs seems to be the maximum number of pops. Everything else is secondary or, really, meaningless.

 

I think everyone in the game agrees that simply role-matching regs would be a phenomenal adjustment for the quality of reg matches. But there's also zero chance of that happening, and I'm not entirely sure why other than that it would impact pop frequencey (if there are 5 healers and 1 tank in queue, for instance, that one tank and one healer would miss a pop that they've been "waiting for" ahead of other dps players).

 

TL; DR: BW doesn't care about balancing regs. I don't mean everyone has a rating, highly invasive balancing. I mean something as simple as role balancing. If you want them to take action, it's going to be via ACs. That is their M.O.

[Draqsko]

I just want that damn immortality bubble gone for good. I want to know who thought it was a good idea to add an ability that makes the player (And hey can pop it on their teammates too! Fun!) literally immune to all damage? That's some god mode horsecrap and there should never be anything like that for any player in a game like this. PVP wouldn't be half as horrible as it is if that one ability alone was removed.

 

Umm... they can't pop god bubble on their team mates. The only bubble they can put on their team mates is static barrier/force armor, which most burst DPS can plow through in one hit (sustained specs might take 2 hits).

 

And in all honesty, god bubble is not the issue and never was. Even when they first introduced that ability, most sorcs and sages still dropped like a bad habit. The issue has been the additional increase in mobility since 3.0 and 4.0. That's the real issue, since sorcs went from being the least mobile healer class to the most mobile. Take away that mobility and sorcs will die just as easily as they did in 2.0.

[Ruhun]

you're talking about matchmaking here, not OP classes/roles. If precedent is any indication for future action, BW will not lift a finger to fix regs this way. Their sole concern for regs seems to be the maximum number of pops. Everything else is secondary or, really, meaningless.

 

I think everyone in the game agrees that simply role-matching regs would be a phenomenal adjustment for the quality of reg matches. But there's also zero chance of that happening, and I'm not entirely sure why other than that it would impact pop frequencey (if there are 5 healers and 1 tank in queue, for instance, that one tank and one healer would miss a pop that they've been "waiting for" ahead of other dps players).

 

TL; DR: BW doesn't care about balancing regs. I don't mean everyone has a rating, highly invasive balancing. I mean something as simple as role balancing. If you want them to take action, it's going to be via ACs. That is their M.O.

 

That would be resolved by also including cross server queues.

 

Servers that barely get any pops Pub side would see an increase too.

Everyone wins.

[ForceWelder]

Umm... they can't pop god bubble on their team mates. The only bubble they can put on their team mates is static barrier/force armor, which most burst DPS can plow through in one hit (sustained specs might take 2 hits).

 

And in all honesty, god bubble is not the issue and never was. Even when they first introduced that ability, most sorcs and sages still dropped like a bad habit. The issue has been the additional increase in mobility since 3.0 and 4.0. That's the real issue, since sorcs went from being the least mobile healer class to the most mobile. Take away that mobility and sorcs will die just as easily as they did in 2.0.

 

I disagree. The immunity bubble is an issue. It gives the class an unfair advantage in PVP. With it, they can become the kings of node defense. They can drag out a node capture by an opposing team for a ridiculous amount of time.

 

It also makes killing them a virtual impossibility when multiple healers are on the same team. They can pop the bubble and wait for the incoming heals with no fear of death. Trying to bust down a group of healers is bad enough. Giving a heavily used class a free pass on all incoming CC and damage is game breaking.

 

Just think about it.

 

If you focus down one sorc healer, he bubbles. He is getting heals from at least one other healer. So you switch targets go after a second sorc healer. The first one is completely healed back up Assuming you still have the resources to burst the second one down (or haven't been killed off), that one bubbles. It is like a crazy, game of duck, duck, goose where no matter who you tag goose they simply can't be taken down.

[Ruhun]

As far as I can tell the bubble only became an issue when they also got Phasewalk and a massive boost to mobility.

 

Right now they have three chances to reset the fight and heal to full. No other class has this.

[ReinhartRussian]

Why so many people cry out for match making? is it because SORC healing is too OP compared to other healers. Then why not just nerf sorc healing. If you introduce match making we will have 20 min ques and thats the last thing I want tbh. Sorc Healing stacking with tanks is a problem so why not nerf that?

 

Also why teams stack SORCs? Simple - because they are overtuned, why not just nerf them?

[Ruhun]

Why so many people cry out for match making? is it because SORC healing is too OP compared to other healers. Then why not just nerf sorc healing. If you introduce match making we will have 20 min ques and thats the last thing I want tbh. Sorc Healing stacking with tanks is a problem so why not nerf that?

 

Also why teams stack SORCs? Simple - because they are overtuned, why not just nerf them?

 

Nerfing sorc healing will not address the 4 healers per team problem.

 

One team will get healers and the others won't. Lets guess which will win.

[ReinhartRussian]

Nerfing sorc healing will not address the 4 healers per team problem.

 

One team will get healers and the others won't. Lets guess which will win.

 

tbh its much easier to kill other healers due to not having combat reset buttons. i went against 2 OP healers and a sorc healer. both ops died 3-4 times sorc hasn't died even once. Even if the team has 4 healers you can still kill other non sorcs

[Ruhun]

tbh its much easier to kill other healers due to not having combat reset buttons. i went against 2 OP healers and a sorc healer. both ops died 3-4 times sorc hasn't died even once. Even if the team has 4 healers you can still kill other non sorcs

 

Those were very bad Ops.

 

An Op healer is an absolute menace, and if you're playing Huttball then GG.