stephenalandavie Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 I've always seen certain classes as support classes which are best engaging in groups. i.e Sniper//commando etc where as others are front line classes and can handle themselves solo somewhat. i've just always seen it from that perspective. Maras are a perfect example of a front line class which is under performing, some of the dmg i see marksman put out is immense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 (edited) you may not care about the damage but the damage was nerfed into the ground the way it works now. They removed the front loaded damage and even it out to deal damage each second. That is why you have that 70% slow on it. They also reduced the duration from 18 seconds to 9 seconds. Not forgetting of course the change to the stun we had from from ip/pp, sure this one might not be classes as a pp change but to me it is...or at the very least linked heavily. Plasma probe is still useful sure but I would much rather have the old one back than the this version of it. it's a ridiculous snare applicable from miles away that essentially has no cd. best troll ability in the game. edit: though I empathize with the gutting of the entire spec. just...seriously. oil slick/plasmatech conal that can be placed anywhere and lasts forever. who thought that was a good idea? Edited May 29, 2015 by foxmob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kakisback Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 All snipers having diversion isn't all good considering it's so much easier to force snipers/gs out of cover and entrench so they can be cced and leapt to now. When before just mm and sharpshooter specs had it. The debuff is nice, but it's probably the single most crippling ability snipers/gs fear in pvp. This just in: snipers are underpowered because they counter themselves too hard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muhidin Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 This just in: snipers are underpowered because they counter themselves too hard It sounds ridiculous but it is true. The easiest way to take down an entrenched sniper is to simply have another sniper or gs pop diversion on him. A sniper/gs out of cover is usually dead within seconds. They can't roll, they lose ballistic dampeners, ranged def, interrupt and leap immunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaineOs Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 it's a ridiculous snare applicable from miles away that essentially has no cd. best troll ability in the game. edit: though I empathize with the gutting of the entire spec. just...seriously. oil slick/plasmatech conal that can be placed anywhere and lasts forever. who thought that was a good idea? You know what? I'm with you on that, I much prefer the old version when it lasted 18 secs and the damage was front loaded and I'd love it if they reverted back to that. However, the issue we have now is even if they did revert it back to how it used to work with this no interrupt on aoe damage they are proposing it wouldn't be as good as it used to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VdFExarKun Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 At some point in the future the Devs have to deal with Snipers, they can't patch every other class for eternity, sooner or later it's the Snipers turn. I just hope it'll be sooner than later, but they have to do it. They can't patch Sorc, Sin, Pt and Jugg every month... right... ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoidrinali Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 At some point in the future the Devs have to deal with Snipers, they can't patch every other class for eternity, sooner or later it's the Snipers turn. I just hope it'll be sooner than later, but they have to do it. They can't patch Sorc, Sin, Pt and Jugg every month... right... ??? That's what I keep thinking but they have resisted so far and with what they said in that pod cast it does make me think that they are taking the line that they see nothing wrong with snipers in their metrics so everything we are saying isn't backed up with the information they have. If were able to provide them with information that is somehow backed up in their metrics then yes we would likely see some changes. That's why I think it'd be invaluable for us to get some information from the devs on how long on average are snipers lasting in solo arena's compared to all the other classes....and break it down into spec as well so we can see the performance of sniper's to a greater degree of accuracy. If players are saying we have survival issues and their stats are saying snipers are performing well then something isn't right. They need to back up what they have said with more information because otherwise I see very little we can say or do to help BW understand the issues the class faces. The sad thing is if the only people who were crying were bad snipers I wouldn't mind so much but when people like yourself and Rhuarc express concern....that's when you know something isn't right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DynamiCtagez Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 (edited) This must be a joke, someone who actually makes a spot on analysis on the PvP forums? All your points are perfectly valid. Regarding your suggestion: I like 2. and 3., not so much 1. It's already bad enough for group ranked (if you play anything with an actual tactic, instead of just derping with double Hatred/Madness) that a lot of classes have stun dmg reduction and breaks with super short CD. Making abilities usable while stunned now will just make it worse. I don't have a better suggestion, but I'm sure there are better ways. Imho the simplest way to make sniper viable again in solo ranked is to buff up Engineering somewhat close to what it used to be. That spec was very good for solo ranked from what I know. The reset on roll, shield probe, cool head and Entrench needs to come back. Edited May 29, 2015 by DynamiCtagez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VdFExarKun Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 The sad thing is if the only people who were crying were bad snipers I wouldn't mind so much but when people like yourself and Rhuarc express concern....that's when you know something isn't right. It's not just Rhuarc an me who voice concern about the survivability situation of the class and the overall class balance in PvP. Players like Caprica or Manzii do it too and there are also other Snipers/Slinger who see it, like yourself. You could say that all PvP Snipers/Slingers see the problems but BW sadly doesn't, they just look at their metrics (whatever they look like) and say that the class is fine - it's not - end of story. And it's not only the stupid solo ranked. It's the damn survivability of the class in PvP in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 I'm really beginning to come around to the idea that they just need to FORCE trinity comps before allowing any rated matches of any kind to pop. yes pls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrikFassbauer Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 (edited) Gunslingers by design have very short duration defensive cooldowns that only mitigate a moderate amount of damage. They are great in situations where you are only taking moderate damage, but are largely ineffective at countering sustained burst focus by themselves. ... And since PvP is about nothing but burst right now ... Tanks and healers are what make the defenses good enough in team. But defenses are not what make the class great there. The entire design of sharpshooter spec's offense is what does that. Assassins show very good how Bioware went away from that rule : - greast defense through stealth - great defense through tanking abilities (if used, that is) - EXTREME high burst - extreme good DOTs in some cases The Assassin - as a class - is basically an steel reinforced close-combat Gunslinger . I will *never* be able to understand why the Assassin class did have to get THAT high amount of insane burst PLUS these great defenses ... But maybe the Assassin players where whining loud enough ... At some point in the future the Devs have to deal with Snipers, they can't patch every other class for eternity, sooner or later it's the Snipers turn. I just hope it'll be sooner than later, but they have to do it. They can't patch Sorc, Sin, Pt and Jugg every month... right... ??? Well, I fear the worst. I even guess that no-one of the devs plays Snipers, only Operatives ... Edited May 30, 2015 by AlrikFassbauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumack Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 The class's immobility is absurd, in a game where everyone can just leap at you with the touch of a button, I can't fathom how this is balanced. At least if you were stealthed for some amount of time it would make sense, but you are nothing but a ripe target to an angry mob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumack Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 /bump I approve this message. I ran across a sniper once... he proceeded to duck in front his make-shift cover right in front of me... I laughed as I force choked him and force pushed him into oblivion followed by many other painful slashes. You guys give a healing spec the ability to stealth and force the dps spec to take cover... should be the other way around. I haven't a clue what these devs were thinking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VdFExarKun Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Buff Sniper defenses! Idc if you nerf *********** Ambush dmg for it. Can't get a *********** Ambush off if I won't survive for 2sec. Same **** in regs and solo ranked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheJollyRogers Posted June 4, 2015 Author Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) I think it's safe to say from the lack of any change in the PTS patch notes that I don't plan to play my gunslinger past the occasional reg. I would rather save myself the frustration. Back to my scoundrel/operative it is. For you guys holding to this class - you guys are beast. <3 Edited June 4, 2015 by TheJollyRogers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 One of the reasons I come back is for my slingers and snipers. Powerful or not; still my favorite class in an MMO. That said; I have been mostly off lately but does that patch note look like it was a nerf for DPS that have healing trees so they cannot heal as well? Or is it an overall nerf for healing? Seems like they raised costs to cast heals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki_ Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 One of the most horrid issues is that to refresh ballistic dampers without blowing your roll you have to come out of cover and drop back into cover ..if you even think to try and do this in a reg war zone you have a Mara and 2 Jugs immediately leap on you even though you were out of cover for only 0.5 sec .... Its like they just sit with their target on a sniper whilst they wait and wait and wait for that chance to leap you. Change dampers so they refresh passively with rotation or get rid of the charges and let dampers be active as long as you are in cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VdFExarKun Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 One of the most horrid issues is that to refresh ballistic dampers without blowing your roll you have to come out of cover and drop back into cover ..if you even think to try and do this in a reg war zone you have a Mara and 2 Jugs immediately leap on you even though you were out of cover for only 0.5 sec .... Its like they just sit with their target on a sniper whilst they wait and wait and wait for that chance to leap you. Yepp, happens 99% of the time. Sniper used to be a turret. It's not anymore since the OS nerf and we haven't gotten anything to make up for it yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrikFassbauer Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) Its like they just sit with their target on a sniper whilst they wait and wait and wait for that chance to leap you. I can only guess that in more coordinated groups THEY are attacked while they are waiting for the Gunslinger to come out of cover ? I mean - if they are really waiting, they aren't doing anything else at the same time, right ? Thus they are bait for mny own team members like / while I am bait as the Gunslinger using Cover ... And while they are getting attacked, they cannot jump to me - as Gunslinger - while I'm in cover, right ? Because my own team members are peeling for me, then ... And THEN I can do burst, right ? Which just confirms how much garbage Gunslingers are in Solo Ranked, where there is no coordinated team ... Edited June 4, 2015 by AlrikFassbauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ershiin Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) While the Sniper/GS may be my least played class (next to assassin.. too much Rogue in WoW, gameplay too similiar), I'm gonna have to agree that the shield probe really could use some love. Even if its just an increase in duration so it can last long enough that it can get refreshed again in case you didnt end up needing it. Maybe have leaving cover reset the CD, with the same limitations as most other skills that activates that way? Or maybe a utility that resets the CD on something like the root and/or knockback (or maybe even that roll into cover ability? ) whenever you exit combat so that you always have those ready like juggs and their charge? Edited June 4, 2015 by Ershiin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kakisback Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 One of the most horrid issues is that to refresh ballistic dampers without blowing your roll you have to come out of cover and drop back into cover ..if you even think to try and do this in a reg war zone you have a Mara and 2 Jugs immediately leap on you even though you were out of cover for only 0.5 sec .... Its like they just sit with their target on a sniper whilst they wait and wait and wait for that chance to leap you. Change dampers so they refresh passively with rotation or get rid of the charges and let dampers be active as long as you are in cover. Sorry but this is just pure QQ. Snipers hard counter warriors. Having to be out of cover for a fraction of a second to refresh dampers is a complete non-issue. You're really asking them to dumb down the game even more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vember Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Sorry but this is just pure QQ. Snipers hard counter warriors. Those days are long gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) Those days are long gone. That they are, but I do agree with not making it auto-reset. It should be a risk reward and knowing when you can reset. Cover in place does not respect GCD and depending on what spec you are, but you likely want to reset your insta-snipe anyway. Part of it is I feel like asking for the dumbing down of sab/eng was what got us here and I don't want it easy; I just want things viable. Edited June 4, 2015 by Technohic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kakisback Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Those days are long gone. sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muhidin Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Sorry but this is just pure QQ. Snipers hard counter warriors. Having to be out of cover for a fraction of a second to refresh dampers is a complete non-issue. You're really asking them to dumb down the game even more? I wouldn't really complain but there's a delay in the animation that causes a sniper/gs to enter cover in place and in that precious few seconds you are leapable. I've seen this plenty of times and I've been leaped to despite being in cover. And it isn't the 10m focus zealous leap either, but the 30m charge. Chalk it up to a buggy ui or lag, but it's very odd that snipers should have to get in and out of cover to make use of one of their most useful defensive abilities. A sniper out of cover is even easier to shut down than a merc. Causing ballistic dampeners to refresh in cover is a pretty reasonable request considering the ability vanishes once you leave cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts