Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

[Xcore]

I haven't noticed it either on my Sentinel. In fact, I really like how the animations match up with the damage (numbers popping up when the lightsaber hits the enemy in the face etc.). I also like how the stun from Crippling Throw doesn't take effect until the animation shows the lightsaber hitting the Imp. I like how when I mount my speeder, I'm not able to take 3-4 fast-forward steps and then my mount appears after I'm already moving.

 

I'm not logging back in tonight to check (not am I slogging through 200+ pages of QQ to see if someone's tried this), but I wonder if after using Crippling Throw you are unable to use any lightsaber (or other) abilities until after you catch your lightsaber on its return trip, GCD be damned. I think it would be great if this is how it works.

 

This is what happens when the masses of people are so conditioned to DBM/GCDs/anything else on the screen that they don't pay attention what their character is actually doing.

 

This combat style gameplay will cripple this game... this is not "fun" I would argue to any competitive person and MMOs are competitive by nature, I would argue the vast majority (The WoW Playerbase) will disagree with your assessment.

 

Before you say that it doesn't matter or "Go Play WoW", Bioware will likely disagree with that one (I presume) because they've made clear to want to grab the WoW marketshare...

[belialle]

I like the (very slightly) slower, more deliberate pace of this game. My abilities feel like they have more impact. Despite the difference in the pacing of the combat, I find it extremely fluid and fun to play. I don't have trouble getting interrupts in when I need them. The only thing I would wish for in that department is some sort of /stopcasting functionality that I could tie to my stuns and interrupts. Even without this, I somehow manage to have a great time.

 

As a person who played WoW for 7+ years, I understand that this game feels different and that it takes some getting used to. The fact is that I don't want every game to handle just exactly like WoW, and I am really starting to resent all the people talking out of their asses about how things "should" be when they are obviously asking for the BW to change their game to make it handle more like their old game. NEWS FLASH: This is a different game. It handles differently. Freaking learn to adapt to it. TOR deserves to develop its own identity.

 

"Fun" is subjective. You might not find it fun, but I assure you that I do. And before you try to paint me as a carebear who doesn't like competetive PvP, why don't you go check my arena ratings on my main....Oh wait. WRONG FREAKING GAME.

 

I don't expect every car I drive to handle exactly the same either.

 

Not every game has to be twitchy to be fun.

Edited December 28, 2011 by belialle

[Hamstaxo]

the fun fact is that meeles just need to stay close to you and faceroll over their buttons while as a healer i need to target everyone with delay, heal with delay, get out of sight with delay..... its really like playing with 1000ms

[Feskitt]

I tried to "see if there is a problem" and I'm still not seeing it. Or perhaps more accurately, I've already "adapted" and so don't notice it.

 

Like I said 100 pages ago, I've done my combinations literally a couple hundred thousand times. I have no problem whatsoever timing things 'just right' w/o stepping on the previous move or jacking up an animation.

 

And as I posted 100 pages ago, I LOVE that we have actual, realistic animations in lieu of spazzy hack-n-slash anime appearance to combat animations.

 

Having said all that, I've only played BH Merc. And I have noticed, when I actually monitor the cast bar/cooldowns, that they sometimes do not sync with the animations. That should be tweaked and fixed IMO. But not by, in any way, making combat animations look unrealistic. I don't wanna watch anime or play an arcade game.

 

 

 

tldr; I liked Dragon Age Origins combat better than Dragon Age 2's combat

 

 

 

 

[Opiatesalvation]

I don't think you truly understand "Button-Mashing"

 

Again, don't allow yourself to cloud your own understanding due to love or hate for one game or company or another. This system is not superior... no matter how you spin it.

 

Woah woah, making presumptions. I played wow for a loong time, it's a great game. This system is not superior, i don't think i made that statement. It's really different. i think you can adjust and make it fully functional and enjoyable. You really input commands closer to FFXI. You tell your char to use the ability, and it queues for next use. You put them in ahead of time.

 

I don't think we'll again any dev response to all this aside from "Working as intended" and "Ability X has a bug issue, we're working on a fix for that"

 

And the "Button mashing" wow comment had *SOME CLASSES* and not that's all wow is put on it. You ever tank as a bear? Button mash. Prot warrior? Like playing a piano. Totally different play styles in those classes (I prefered bear myself, much easier lol)

[ShadowMasterRP]

Not every game has to be twitchy to be fun.

 

It's not about being "twitchy." It's about not being locked into a single spot on the ground where you stand and fearing for your life that if you dare move, you're going to have all sorts of trouble keeping a steady rotation of abilities or using any single ability in a timely fashion.

 

It's also about being able to smoothly use abilities one after another. You don't have to be twitchy for that. In fact, you need to be twitchy with the current system and its problems because you never know when an ability won't go off, get eaten up or when its animation will play out while the ability itself doesn't trigger. That requires some serious twitching.

Edited December 28, 2011 by ShadowMasterRP

[Xcore]

I like the (very slightly) slower, more deliberate pace of this game. My abilities feel like they have more impact. Despite the difference in the pacing of the combat, I find it extremely fluid and fun to play. I don't have trouble getting interrupts in when I need them. The only thing I would wish for in that department is some sort of /stopcasting functionality that I could tie to my stuns and interrupts. Even without this, I somehow manage to have a great time.

 

As a person who played WoW for 7+ years, I understand that this game feels different and that it takes some getting used to. The fact is that I don't want every game to handle just exactly like WoW, and I am really starting to resent all the people talking out of their asses about how things "should" be when they are obviously asking for the BW to change their game to make it handle more like their old game. NEWS FLASH: This is a different game. It handles differently. Freaking learn to adapt to it. TOR deserves to develop its own identity.

 

I don't expect every car I drive to handle exactly the same either.

 

Not every game has to be twitchy to be fun.

 

This argument of "Its a Different Game" is terrible... you are denying yourself an evolution to a better system by simply lying back and taking it, whichever way it is given to you.

 

 

Listen, I understand that you enjoy the abilities having seemingly greater "impact" and the slightly slower pace of combat but please be objective about the facts. You and I want SW:TOR to be highly successful, in fact we want it to be more successful than any other MMO.

 

Do you truly believe that this "slower" and essentially unresponsive gameplay that forces animation > gameplay response will cut it where it counts (Endgame - as with every MMO)?

 

Imagine Boss Fights like WoWs or Competitive PvP or anything even remotely close to this nature with this slower pace combat style that you enjoy. It isn't possible, thus we'll need to dumb it down to a point that it is achievable, and you lose a large part of the current MMO Audience (who have played WoW like it or not).

 

High End "Activities" Raiding/PvP/Soloing, require speed... require a certain amount of twitch, require RESPONSIVENESS.

 

You cannot wait .5 seconds... its simply NOT ACCEPTABLE... STOP ACCEPTING IT. Its ok to tell Bioware, "hey, listen... great game, love it but you're wrong here". This is the only way SW:TOR will avoid becoming Rift 2.0.

[Thegroundissour]

I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of players suddenly cried out in terror and flocked back to WoW.

 

 

The only way for Bioware to come back from this is to pubically fire their combat designers on the front page (with mugshots) and put another 100 million into a revamped combat system that they can roll out in.. say the next 20 days.

I don't see that happening, do you?

[Extinction]

This problem is destroying my marauder, particularily ravage channeling. It's crippling in pvp doing a 3 second channel you can't stop that does no damage and doesn't even use the abilitiy.

 

This happens with force choke not firing but showing the animation, sometimes I can't get my instant cooldowns to fire, all in all it's a mess.

 

It also caused a death in black talon end fight hard mode. I got stuck in ravage animation and couldn't move while she channeled her attack which I ate point blank while glitching.

 

Barely playable, I don't even really know how effective my class is cause its so unfluid.

[chizhik]

lol, well i guess that this isn't for you. I'm sure when people get used to queueing a skill and waiting for it to go off you'll either love or hate that.

 

Are you implying that I should be queuing up my interrupts and defensive CDs a second before I know I need them? I'm sorry, this just doesn't make sense to me. I might be willing to put up with something like that in a single player game, where my death matters only to me, but not in an MMO.

[Xcore]

Woah woah, making presumptions. I played wow for a loong time, it's a great game. This system is not superior, i don't think i made that statement. It's really different. i think you can adjust and make it fully functional and enjoyable. You really input commands closer to FFXI. You tell your char to use the ability, and it queues for next use. You put them in ahead of time.

 

I don't think we'll again any dev response to all this aside from "Working as intended" and "Ability X has a bug issue, we're working on a fix for that"

 

And the "Button mashing" wow comment had *SOME CLASSES* and not that's all wow is put on it. You ever tank as a bear? Button mash. Prot warrior? Like playing a piano. Totally different play styles in those classes (I prefered bear myself, much easier lol)

 

This slower, animation based, queue your abilities and watch em' go style of gameplay is doomed at endgame "imo". If this is indeed intended to be this way then I believe we're looking at Rift 2.0 here...

 

We'll see I guess, I would like "any" Bioware response on this subject, I do believe 200+ pages and 100,000 views within 48 hours does deserve that much... even if it is "Working as Intended".

[Opiatesalvation]

You cannot wait .5 seconds... its simply NOT ACCEPTABLE... STOP ACCEPTING IT. Its ok to tell Bioware, "hey, listen... great game, love it but you're wrong here". This is the only way SW:TOR will avoid becoming Rift 2.0.

 

It's not that you wait .5 seconds after mashing the button. Try it how i suggested, queue your ability before the end of your last and your character automatically moves into the next animation. Don't wait for the end of your cast/attack to queue up your next move and things flow nicely along.

[SoleVillain]

I haven't noticed it either on my Sentinel. In fact, I really like how the animations match up with the damage (numbers popping up when the lightsaber hits the enemy in the face etc.). I also like how the stun from Crippling Throw doesn't take effect until the animation shows the lightsaber hitting the Imp. I like how when I mount my speeder, I'm not able to take 3-4 fast-forward steps and then my mount appears after I'm already moving.

 

I'm not logging back in tonight to check (not am I slogging through 200+ pages of QQ to see if someone's tried this), but I wonder if after using Crippling Throw you are unable to use any lightsaber (or other) abilities until after you catch your lightsaber on its return trip, GCD be damned. I think it would be great if this is how it works.

 

This is what happens when the masses of people are so conditioned to DBM/GCDs/anything else on the screen that they don't pay attention what their character is actually doing.

 

I agree with this guy. And no I will not waste my time reading 60 pages to "get educated" on the subject matter? To me it seems like whining that the cast time and animation numbers don't sync up. That if an ability has a 2 second cast time and the animation is 2.5 seconds it makes you feel like your character is unresponsive. Solution seems simple, adjust cast time of said ability to say 2.5 seconds so that it perfectly matches the animation.

[ShadowMasterRP]

This problem is destroying my marauder, particularily ravage channeling. It's crippling in pvp doing a 3 second channel you can't stop that does no damage and doesn't even use the abilitiy.

 

This happens with force choke not firing but showing the animation, sometimes I can't get my instant cooldowns to fire, all in all it's a mess.

 

It also caused a death in black talon end fight hard mode. I got stuck in ravage animation and couldn't move while she channeled her attack which I ate point blank while glitching.

 

Barely playable, I don't even really know how effective my class is cause its so unfluid.

 

Aye, I'm a Marauder myself and it's a nightmare.

 

And Force Choke is hilarious because instead of 3 seconds of CC, it only gives 1.5.

 

Why?

 

Because due to the delay, the NPC you start choking LANDS, fires off a shot or swing, then goes BACK to levitating and being choked for 1.5 seconds...

 

So I not only not get to properly use the ability as a 3.0 second CC, but I can't even enjoy a wholesome 3 second Force Choke animation.

[Froth]

This argument of "Its a Different Game" is terrible... you are denying yourself an evolution to a better system by simply lying back and taking it, whichever way it is given to you.

 

 

Listen, I understand that you enjoy the abilities having seemingly greater "impact" and the slightly slower pace of combat but please be objective about the facts. You and I want SW:TOR to be highly successful, in fact we want it to be more successful than any other MMO.

 

Do you truly believe that this "slower" and essentially unresponsive gameplay that forces animation > gameplay response will cut it where it counts (Endgame - as with every MMO)?

 

Imagine Boss Fights like WoWs or Competitive PvP or anything even remotely close to this nature with this slower pace combat style that you enjoy. It isn't possible, thus we'll need to dumb it down to a point that it is achievable, and you lose a large part of the current MMO Audience (who have played WoW like it or not).

 

High End "Activities" Raiding/PvP/Soloing, require speed... require a certain amount of twitch, require RESPONSIVENESS.

 

You cannot wait .5 seconds... its simply NOT ACCEPTABLE... STOP ACCEPTING IT. Its ok to tell Bioware, "hey, listen... great game, love it but you're wrong here". This is the only way SW:TOR will avoid becoming Rift 2.0.

 

I agree 100000%

[Opiatesalvation]

Are you implying that I should be queuing up my interrupts and defensive CDs a second before I know I need them? I'm sorry, this just doesn't make sense to me. I might be willing to put up with something like that in a single player game, where my death matters only to me, but not in an MMO.

 

Stuff that's not on GCD like jolt (really my only example from my class and experience) work pretty well. I still move to interrupt my current cast and use it instantly, i don't really notice a difference in getting a jolt off vs. a counterspell. In PVP everything is laggy and it's hard as hell, but i think that's a different problem. I mean, in WOW it's not like mid cast of arcane explosion i could CS, same with here and jolt...

[ShadowMasterRP]

I haven't noticed it either on my Sentinel. In fact, I really like how the animations match up with the damage (numbers popping up when the lightsaber hits the enemy in the face etc.). I also like how the stun from Crippling Throw doesn't take effect until the animation shows the lightsaber hitting the Imp. I like how when I mount my speeder, I'm not able to take 3-4 fast-forward steps and then my mount appears after I'm already moving.

 

I'm not logging back in tonight to check (not am I slogging through 200+ pages of QQ to see if someone's tried this), but I wonder if after using Crippling Throw you are unable to use any lightsaber (or other) abilities until after you catch your lightsaber on its return trip, GCD be damned. I think it would be great if this is how it works.

 

This is what happens when the masses of people are so conditioned to DBM/GCDs/anything else on the screen that they don't pay attention what their character is actually doing.

 

It's called a user interface for a reason.

 

It's there to create an interface between the user and the game.

 

If you can't trust your user interface elements to be accurate, it's a problem. End of.

[Xcore]

It's not that you wait .5 seconds after mashing the button. Try it how i suggested, queue your ability before the end of your last and your character automatically moves into the next animation. Don't wait for the end of your cast/attack to queue up your next move and things flow nicely along.

 

You CANNOT QUEUE YOUR NEXT ABILITY 1.0 OR .5 SECONDS BEFORE YOU NEED IT IN PVP OR HIGH END PVE... WHY? because within that 1.0 or .5 seconds **** happens and you need to adjust, this is responsiveness...

 

We're not able to play like 80yr old ladies, hell lets do it a bit better. How about 10 seconds ability queue. I just kinda make a little script of 10 abilities (preferably with pathing so my character walks around a bit) and I'll set it off, grab a coke and see whats up.

 

 

Please, for the love of the force, try to comprehend.

[Bryoal]

This argument of "Its a Different Game" is terrible... you are denying yourself an evolution to a better system by simply lying back and taking it, whichever way it is given to you.

 

 

Listen, I understand that you enjoy the abilities having seemingly greater "impact" and the slightly slower pace of combat but please be objective about the facts. You and I want SW:TOR to be highly successful, in fact we want it to be more successful than any other MMO.

 

Do you truly believe that this "slower" and essentially unresponsive gameplay that forces animation > gameplay response will cut it where it counts (Endgame - as with every MMO)?

 

Imagine Boss Fights like WoWs or Competitive PvP or anything even remotely close to this nature with this slower pace combat style that you enjoy. It isn't possible, thus we'll need to dumb it down to a point that it is achievable, and you lose a large part of the current MMO Audience (who have played WoW like it or not).

 

High End "Activities" Raiding/PvP/Soloing, require speed... require a certain amount of twitch, require RESPONSIVENESS.

 

You cannot wait .5 seconds... its simply NOT ACCEPTABLE... STOP ACCEPTING IT. Its ok to tell Bioware, "hey, listen... great game, love it but you're wrong here". This is the only way SW:TOR will avoid becoming Rift 2.0.

 

Your sayin it isnt acceptable in a game like WoW where the combat is the way it is. Combat here is different thats why it is what it is. .5 seconds will not make break something.

 

In fact your posts states that "Imagine this in a game like WoW" well sorry but where not in WOW this SW:TOR, and they always said they wanted to make the animations tight.

 

IMO wrong game for you move along.

[Oneiros_IV]

Bumping a thread, raise awareness in chat, send tickets. We want real control over our character's actions

[Xcore]

I agree with this guy. And no I will not waste my time reading 60 pages to "get educated" on the subject matter? To me it seems like whining that the cast time and animation numbers don't sync up. That if an ability has a 2 second cast time and the animation is 2.5 seconds it makes you feel like your character is unresponsive. Solution seems simple, adjust cast time of said ability to say 2.5 seconds so that it perfectly matches the animation.

 

Once again, that is only a small part of the problem (or large) but how about you get Bioware to respond to this and have them say what you just said? That they'll adjust the animations?

[Bryoal]

Bumping a thread, raise awareness in chat, send tickets. We want real control over our character's actions

 

But you do have control over your charaters. You chose an ability and used it, the ability comes with an animation. They arent going to remake all the animations just for a .5 seconds that are lost, which honestly I have not even seen on my Assassin.

 

My combat flows together perfectly, from using backstab to my generic attack to force lightning to jolt.

[Oneiros_IV]

Your sayin it isnt acceptable in a game like WoW where the combat is the way it is. Combat here is different thats why it is what it is. .5 seconds will not make break something.

 

And here you just implied there will be no stuff more challenging than black talon? I mean games where 0.5 "dont really matter" belong to the niche currently owned by "Hello Kitty Adventure Island Online"

[ShadowMasterRP]

Your sayin it isnt acceptable in a game like WoW where the combat is the way it is. Combat here is different

 

...are you honestly implying that SWTOR combat isn't a carbon copy of WoW combat?

 

I'm starting to understand the concept behind what people call "Biodrones."

 

SWTOR combat is the same as every WoW clone on the market. It is no different at all. It is based on the same exact principles and works in the same exact manner.

 

The fact that this issue exists doesn't make it a different system. It just makes it a flawed system.

[Xcore]

Your sayin it isnt acceptable in a game like WoW where the combat is the way it is. Combat here is different thats why it is what it is. .5 seconds will not make break something.

 

In fact your posts states that "Imagine this in a game like WoW" well sorry but where not in WOW this SW:TOR, and they always said they wanted to make the animations tight.

 

IMO wrong game for you move along.

 

Perhaps you're right, if you are right and this is Bioware's official stance on this entire subject then fine... I'm out, and I believe this will be Rift 2.0 (maybe I'm wrong, who cares I'll enjoy WoW again I suppose).

 

However, how about you pull that Bunny out of your Magic Hat and have it actually respond so we can put this to rest? Or so we can start a bit of open dialogue with said Bunny.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Xcore