So Bioware, about people bypassing the locked part on Ziost to fight the OP Boss etc.

[Jerba]

Thanks for the fast reply! However, as part of being open about the action being taken, for the playerbase as a whole it would be nice to know what happens to the exploiters, specifically if their gear gets taken away and if they receive a ban longer than 1-3 days.

 

No matter what you write, in player perception, the Ravagers loot exploit was not handled seriously. Please stay true to your word if you want to be taken seriously.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Jerba

[stlin]

One of the things we tried to be clear about with the Ravagers is that we are serious about handling exploits. With that exploit, the Ravagers we were open about our process and the action we were taking. For this issue with Ziost, we are going to do the same.

 

If a player is bypassing the environment to access an area they should not be able to, and then killing a boss to get loot they should also not have access to, we absolutely consider this an exploit. We are investigating this issue right now, and will be actioning any player who participates, or has participated, in this exploit.

 

If you ever hear of or find something that can be exploited, do not test it yourself. Please notify us immediately and privately. Some of you brought this issue to our attention on PTS and we thank you for that. We closed that opening, but it seems that there is another method of getting into the area.

 

We would also like to thank those of you who did not exploit and who have brought this to our attention. Our goal will always be to create a safe and fair environment for our players.

 

Thanks.

 

-eric

 

and what about people who got summoned into the closed area without even knowing it and did nothing about it?

[azudelphi]

The Developers / Community Staff have spoken!

 

Cheating is indeed cheating; just desserts all around! Woo-hoo!

 

Glad I don't do these things.

Edited April 29, 2015 by azudelphi

[dscount]

/signed

 

I sure hope removal of gear is going to happen this time around. At least this time nobody should have any type of 204 gear and easy to find/remove.

[darkov]

Eric, you probably lack this tech, but other MMOs that have had areas which were off limits for a duration after being patched to live used a teleport mechanic to instantly teleport any player character that enters the area back to a safe zone.

 

I guess in the guess of SWTOR, if you can't do that, maybe you could have put in place exhaustion zone in there.

 

We'd prefer you to patch again a week later than to have exploits live like this. Players will always find away around, so you need to make being there impossible.

[MorgenBlue]

It's good you take action against exploiters although in the future please don't randomly block off areas for a week because doing that is just asking for things like this to happen because the block is nothing but frustrating.

[oofalong]

...

No matter what you write, in player perception, the Ravagers exploit was not handled seriously. Please stay true to your word if you want to be taken seriously.

 

I echo Jerba's comments. If anything the relative slap on the wrist people received for the Ravagers' exploit only incentivized future exploitation. In my opinion, whatever action you take for this will greatly influence future behavior.

[Kadin]

This is obviously a very uninformed response because I just woke up and have no clue what this is in regards to. I assume it's in reference to pushing further into Ziost than you guys intended and plan to expand next week?

 

If that's the case, how does a player who doesn't follow the forums know this exactly? The only thing I can guess is that the method they're using clearly shows a desire to exploit and push past? As in to say, they know exactly what they're doing and it's not something they just stumbled on thinking they found?

 

I only ask because it's not very clear that the end of the quest line just ends abruptly and is waiting for the rest to be unlocked next week - at least to someone who isn't following along. I would have had no clue if I wasn't following along here and on reddit.

[Margoth]

Seriously, it doesn't matter whether it's as severe as the Ravagers exploit or not. As you stated by yourself, it as an exploit und thus everybody who use it to get the MHs early HAVE to be punished.

 

There's no way to be like: "C'mon we'd get there by monday anyway so what's the matter, bro ?"

 

Well a moot point since there is now an official statement. My point is that we expect the boss to be unlocked on Monday. Even if players with lots of alts got the mainhand on every one of their alts between now and the Tuesday reset, it would not have a measurable impact on the game form a long term perspective as the number of opportunities to get the item after Monday is infinite as time approaches infinity.

 

But again. It's irrelevant. There is now an official statement. Anyone doing it at this point is knowingly exploiting. If you are in a group get summoned there without realizing you are being summoned there, immediately leave the area and whatever you do don't participate in a fight with the boss. I'll be happy to wait until it's available. Probably won't get our guild together to make an attempt until after reset next week anyway.

[darkov]

This is obviously a very uninformed response because I just woke up and have no clue what this is in regards to. I assume it's in reference to pushing further into Ziost than you guys intended and plan to expand next week?

 

If that's the case, how does a player who doesn't follow the forums know this exactly? The only thing I can guess is that the method they're using clearly shows a desire to exploit and push past? As in to say, they know exactly what they're doing and it's not something they just stumbled on thinking they found?

 

I only ask because it's not very clear that the end of the quest line just ends abruptly and is waiting for the rest to be unlocked next week - at least to someone who isn't following along. I would have had no clue if I wasn't following along here and on reddit.

 

The exploit isn't something you would stumble across. Most exploiters, from my experience, are the top tier of players who have to beat the latest content, have the best gear and be number one all the time, they don't care about the rules, only about not getting caught, but they also know they will never be perma-banned as they pay lots of money to be at the top too.

[Danery]

I would also hope the people that have been selling the summons would have those ill-gotten funds removed as well though that might be harder to track

[lpope]

Eric, you probably lack this tech, but other MMOs that have had areas which were off limits for a duration after being patched to live used a teleport mechanic to instantly teleport any player character that enters the area back to a safe zone.

 

I guess in the guess of SWTOR, if you can't do that, maybe you could have put in place exhaustion zone in there.

 

We'd prefer you to patch again a week later than to have exploits live like this. Players will always find away around, so you need to make being there impossible.

 

If they don't have the tech, then they should be pretty close to having it. I mean doesn't logging into a toon that was last in the Rakghoul tunnels after the event has ended port you somewhere safe? That seems close to what should occur in this instance. Although the problem is likely what triggers the porting process.

Edited April 29, 2015 by lpope

[Quraswren]

and what about people who got summoned into the closed area without even knowing it and did nothing about it?

 

If it was up to me it would depend on if they stayed or not. If they stayed, they get smacked with the same hammer.

[Kadin]

If they don't have the tech, then they should be pretty close to having it. I mean doesn't logging into a toon that was last in the Rakghoul tunnels after the event has ended port you somewhere safe? That seems close to what should occur in this instance. Although the problem is likely what triggers the porting process.

I know I've ported into the tunnels after they were over and as soon as I moved, I was ported out. That's a good point.

[TUXs]

I know I've ported into the tunnels after they were over and as soon as I moved, I was ported out. That's a good point.

Cheater

[RandyL]

/signed

 

I sure hope removal of gear is going to happen this time around. At least this time nobody should have any type of 204 gear and easy to find/remove.

 

Seriously? You're going to be able to get this gear "legitimately" in 5 days. We know this because there isn't a patch before this content goes live on May 4th. While I don't condone exploiting, BW should not spend another minute wasting time on this non-issue.

[Alec_Fortescue]

This is good that you're going to take actions and that they're going to be harsh.

 

What is not good is the fail decision to patch this stuff into the game and make it those final bits accessible week after the content update. It's kinda ridiculous.I am by no means justifying the exploiters but, well, I also would like to access my content update

[Infernixx]

I used the Ravagers bug quite a lot on a number of characters back when it was going on. But, if someone tried to get me to do the new exploit, I'd have turned them down. Mostly because BW acted very serious about punishing future exploiting.

 

This is what we call the 'crucible.' This is where the truth comes out. If BW is serious about squashing exploiting, then they need to severely punish those who exploited this. If they don't, then they'll be opening the floodgates on further exploiting. Because if these exploiters get away with it with a slap on the wrist, then I'll have no problem with taking advantage of the next exploit because all I'll be risking is a slap on the wrist.

[Jerba]

If that's the case, how does a player who doesn't follow the forums know this exactly? The only thing I can guess is that the method they're using clearly shows a desire to exploit and push past? As in to say, they know exactly what they're doing and it's not something they just stumbled on thinking they found?

As was mentioned earlier in this thread, part of being a gamer is to go off the beaten path and not just follow the quest but explore the world. Content like the datacrons specifically encourage players to do this. It is sometimes hard to tell whether something is allowed or not, in fact in this case I thought they would not consider it an exploit. Therefore I appreciate that they gave a fast statement on it before too many players exploited it.

 

but they also know they will never be perma-banned as they pay lots of money to be at the top too.

Not really. The top players don't spend hundreds of dollars in the Cartel Market (that's what only roleplayers do), they only pay for their subscription and always hop between the MMOs whenever a new raid is released, so they are not even loyal SWTOR players. Yes, they won't be banned because they are kind of a role model for other players but they are certainly not paying lots of money.

 

I would also hope the people that have been selling the summons would have those ill-gotten funds removed as well though that might be harder to track

I don't know, if he paid another player to participate in an exploit he is also an exploiter, so I don't see why he should receive mercy. In the best case, those credits should be completely destroyed so that neither player has them anymore but I doubt they would do this.

 

If they don't have the tech, then they should be pretty close to having it. I mean doesn't logging into a toon that was last in the Rakghoul tunnels after the event has ended port you somewhere safe? That seems close to what should occur in this instance. Although the problem is likely what triggers the porting process.

To be fair, the Rakghul port was very buggy in the beginning. Players were able to stay in the tunnels for hours without being ported. You just didn't hear about it because all NPCs and quest terminals had despawned so there was nothing to do in the area.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Jerba

[kojottt]

So how does one know if he/she is in a place that he/she isn't suppose to be?

[Magvay]

Also 204 MH really put 192 there that boss doesn't deserve drop BiS weapon at all.

[Danery]

 

I don't know, if he paid another player to participate in an exploit he is also an exploiter, so I don't see why he should receive mercy. In the best case, those credits should be completely destroyed so that neither player has them anymore but I doubt they would do this..

 

Yes. Im not saying give the money back to the person who paid it. Let that be an additional punishment, both individuals lose it

Edited April 29, 2015 by Danery
fixed tag

[RandyL]

I used the Ravagers bug quite a lot on a number of characters back when it was going on.

This is a convenient time for you to get self-righteous. I'd say you're about the last person that should be calling for others to get sanctioned.

 

If BW is serious about squashing exploiting, then they need to severely punish those who exploited this. If they don't, then they'll be opening the floodgates on further exploiting. Because if these exploiters get away with it with a slap on the wrist, then I'll have no problem with taking advantage of the next exploit because all I'll be risking is a slap on the wrist.

 

Again, for people accessing content 5 days early. Are you being serious? The way some of you talk you'd think these guys were hacking into people's accounts. The time to set an example was with Ravagers and they failed to set the example they should have. This is not even remotely close to being on the same level.

 

This is without a doubt a non-issue. In fact, so much so that Eric should not have even addressed it. Grats to those that figured out how to get to a hidden area a few days early. Let's move on....

Edited April 29, 2015 by RandyL

[Jerba]

Again, for people accessing content 5 days early. Are you being serious? The way some of you talk you'd think these guys were hacking into people's accounts. The time to set an example was with Ravagers and they failed to set the example they should have. This is not even remotely close to being on the same level.

 

This is without a doubt a non-issue. In fact, so much so that Eric should not have even addressed it. Grats to those that figured out how to get to a hidden area a few days early. Let's move on....

If Musco had said that they won't punish players, I'd've agreed with you, but now it no longer matters if it is only a 5 days or 5 months headstart, it only matters that Musco stated that players will be punished for it.

 

I'm not ready to move on until I hear about "serious" action being taken against the exploiters. Then we know that Bioware really is serious about their ToS and it is not just empty words to appease the players.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Jerba

[Infernixx]

Again, for people accessing content 5 days early. Are you being serious? The way some of you talk you'd think these guys were hacking into people's accounts. The time to set an example was with Ravagers and they failed to set the example they should have. This is not even remotely close to being on the same level.

 

This is without a doubt a non-issue. In fact, so much so that Eric should not have even addressed it. Grats to those that figured out how to get to a hidden area a few days early. Let's move on....

 

As I said, they made a point of giving a wrist-slap with the Ravagers thing, but promising far worse punishment for future offenses. If they go back on that, it'll be open season on all bugging and exploiting since they'll have established that all their talk of severely punishing 'future exploiting' will be revealed as nothing but talk.

 

If they don't severely punish these exploiters....and bear in mind, everyone got the same warning not to do it again after Ravagers...then no one will ever take them seriously about exploiting.

 

This is where they have to prove that they were serious and sincere about severely punishing exploiters. They have no choice, really.

 

So, no. This is very much an issue with long-term long lasting consequences if they get it wrong. If they don't drop the hammer on these exploiters, their entire player base will ignore their warnings about exploiting from now on and simply do it knowing that BW isn't serious about punishing exploiting.