Ty TOR devs on Sorc Nerf

[Orizuru]

What about when there are 4+ sorcs? In that 1 or 2 seconds, you're dead. Seeing that many sorcs before the nerf was the norm, and it was really, really boring.

 

When 4 players all focus you at once, it doesn't really matter if they are the fotm class or what ability they all hit you with. You're probably going to die anyways.

 

The problem with line of thinking is you are trying to solo a group PVP situation. It isn't you versus 4 opponents. It's your team versus their team. Learn to work as a team better and make it a 4 versus 4 situation to increase your odds of surviving.

[MbaxterBeau]

Agreed. The nerf was deserved. The spamming of force storm and lightning was ridiculous and combined with the slow it was overpowered for Pvp. I play a sorcerer and I feel like the class is much more balanced now. Anyone complaining about this nerf is bad.

[Adovir]

I find it amusing people seem to think that the FS nerf was for PvP.

 

Seriously, it was bad in PVP bc there was just so many sorcs in PVP but in PVE it just made up too much of their damage to be justifiable, but if you tell anyone otherwise

[sloasdaylight]

if 4 players stand still and focus on you you should be dead

 

Yea sure, with direct damage spells.

[ivanhedgehog]

Yea sure, with direct damage spells.

 

with any attack except maybe the basic attack. if 4 bh's hit you with dfa, you should die. any aoe that doesnt put out that much damage is worthless. of course the aoe should have a greater energy use than a single target. If a sorc just spams fs, he should be so out of power after 3 or 4 that a preschooler with a pool noodle should be able to kill him.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

If they really did kill single target dps, I can understand some fury. But carrying on about losing their one button win is just hilarious to me. Honestly, I have no respect at all to sorcerers that just run around spamming FS to everything. I knew it was going to happen the moment they made it available so low on the leveling scale.

 

They should have just kept it at the original level, then more then likely, there wouldnt have been all this QQing about it, because players woukd have had to actually learn a rotation.

[sloasdaylight]

with any attack except maybe the basic attack. if 4 bh's hit you with dfa, you should die. any aoe that doesnt put out that much damage is worthless. of course the aoe should have a greater energy use than a single target. If a sorc just spams fs, he should be so out of power after 3 or 4 that a preschooler with a pool noodle should be able to kill him.

 

Force Storm used to cost 100 energy, so a sorc/sage could cast it 6 times before they ran out of mana. With the old snare attached to it, enemy teams could and would - at least in regs - coat an area with it and just laugh at you. Further, explain how an AoE should be so powerful as to be included in a single target PvE rotation, which was the case with Force Storm (With recklessness) prior to 3.1.2.

 

Force storm was far too powerful.

Edited April 14, 2015 by sloasdaylight

[ivanhedgehog]

Force Storm used to cost 100 energy, so a sorc/sage could cast it 6 times before they ran out of mana. With the old snare attached to it, enemy teams could and would - at least in regs - coat an area with it and just laugh at you. Further, explain how an AoE should be so powerful as to be included in a single target PvE rotation, which was the case with Force Storm (With recklessness) prior to 3.1.2.

 

Force storm was far too powerful.

 

then they should be nerfing mv/dfa also. and smash. and a lot of other aoes. an aoe is just an attack. there is no 11th commandment that "thou shalt not aoe single targets" what should take it out of a single target rotation is the damage to energy spent ratio. if your aoe spends 6 seconds doing 1000 damage(per target) costing 100 energy, a properly balance single target power should be spending 4 seconds doing 1200 damage for 75 energy. with those 2 powers to chose from you would obviously chose the single target power in your rotation. the aoe would be the same cost if you have 1 target or 10. 10 targets would take 10000 damage between them. the single target attack would be the attack of choice for single targets and the aoe for multiple. people will not always go with the obvious best choice. you will always have the guy that will use the aoe even if it is the most inefficient, wasteful power possible. but you cant balance for that guy.

It looks like bw needs to hire some one experienced in setting up a good balance of powers/recharge time/etc. people have been taking the choices given them and coming up with the best rotation. the power set should flow properly without having to plug aoes in st rotations. it should be the obvious choice. its probably too big a change to make at this point in the game, but the current "spanking the baby with a battle axe" doesnt seem to work well.

[azudelphi]

then they should be nerfing mv/dfa also. and smash. and a lot of other aoes. an aoe is just an attack. there is no 11th commandment that "thou shalt not aoe single targets" what should take it out of a single target rotation is the damage to energy spent ratio. if your aoe spends 6 seconds doing 1000 damage(per target) costing 100 energy, a properly balance single target power should be spending 4 seconds doing 1200 damage for 75 energy. with those 2 powers to chose from you would obviously chose the single target power in your rotation. the aoe would be the same cost if you have 1 target or 10. 10 targets would take 10000 damage between them. the single target attack would be the attack of choice for single targets and the aoe for multiple. people will not always go with the obvious best choice. you will always have the guy that will use the aoe even if it is the most inefficient, wasteful power possible. but you cant balance for that guy.

It looks like bw needs to hire some one experienced in setting up a good balance of powers/recharge time/etc. people have been taking the choices given them and coming up with the best rotation. the power set should flow properly without having to plug aoes in st rotations. it should be the obvious choice. its probably too big a change to make at this point in the game, but the current "spanking the baby with a battle axe" doesnt seem to work well.

 

The issue is that because of Recklessness and Force Potency, Force Storm was giving far more damage / resource than it was supposed to and making it ideal as part of even a single-target rotation... so it got nerfed.

 

Generally speaking:

AoE's should only be used (with effectiveness) against multiple targets; not that they have to, but they should. So long as the converse doesn't make sense either... I mean, should a single target ability be effective against multiple targets? Obviously not...

[Drudenfusz]

I find it amusing people seem to think that the FS nerf was for PvP.

It had its uses in PvP, like to spam it on a capture point, but yes, in PvE it made questing stupidly easy. So, the answer is probably it was broken regardless of what content someone played, and thus I cannot understand how people think that this nerf wasn't well deserved.

[Draqsko]

then they should be nerfing mv/dfa also. and smash. and a lot of other aoes. an aoe is just an attack. there is no 11th commandment that "thou shalt not aoe single targets" what should take it out of a single target rotation is the damage to energy spent ratio. if your aoe spends 6 seconds doing 1000 damage(per target) costing 100 energy, a properly balance single target power should be spending 4 seconds doing 1200 damage for 75 energy. with those 2 powers to chose from you would obviously chose the single target power in your rotation. the aoe would be the same cost if you have 1 target or 10. 10 targets would take 10000 damage between them. the single target attack would be the attack of choice for single targets and the aoe for multiple. people will not always go with the obvious best choice. you will always have the guy that will use the aoe even if it is the most inefficient, wasteful power possible. but you cant balance for that guy.

It looks like bw needs to hire some one experienced in setting up a good balance of powers/recharge time/etc. people have been taking the choices given them and coming up with the best rotation. the power set should flow properly without having to plug aoes in st rotations. it should be the obvious choice. its probably too big a change to make at this point in the game, but the current "spanking the baby with a battle axe" doesnt seem to work well.

 

Mortar Volley isn't spammable, and Smash is really weak now even fully buffed. Also, neither of the classes that use those abilities uses them in the optimal single target rotation. Assault Spec Mando would only use Hail of Bolts (not MV) to proc Mag bolt when there's 2 or more targets otherwise charged bolt is better. Focus spec would use Focused Burst optimally in single target rotation, and doesn't pick up any DPS substituting sweep until there is more than 3 targets hit.

[sloasdaylight]

then they should be nerfing mv/dfa also. and smash. and a lot of other aoes. an aoe is just an attack. there is no 11th commandment that "thou shalt not aoe single targets" what should take it out of a single target rotation is the damage to energy spent ratio. if your aoe spends 6 seconds doing 1000 damage(per target) costing 100 energy, a properly balance single target power should be spending 4 seconds doing 1200 damage for 75 energy. with those 2 powers to chose from you would obviously chose the single target power in your rotation. the aoe would be the same cost if you have 1 target or 10. 10 targets would take 10000 damage between them. the single target attack would be the attack of choice for single targets and the aoe for multiple. people will not always go with the obvious best choice. you will always have the guy that will use the aoe even if it is the most inefficient, wasteful power possible. but you cant balance for that guy.

It looks like bw needs to hire some one experienced in setting up a good balance of powers/recharge time/etc. people have been taking the choices given them and coming up with the best rotation. the power set should flow properly without having to plug aoes in st rotations. it should be the obvious choice. its probably too big a change to make at this point in the game, but the current "spanking the baby with a battle axe" doesnt seem to work well.

 

Smash was nerfed, pretty heavily too I might add; I can't speak to MV/DFA as I don't play those classes. If Smash/Force Sweep does more damage than Force Storm does now (I haven't compared them at max level yet since my sage isn't there but I doubt it), then that's understandable since it's a melee ability that requires you to close the distance between yourself and your target, and is on a 15 second cooldown and affects a frontal cone. Mortar Volley is also on a cooldown and has a 5 meter radius. Force Storm/Quake has an 8m radius, castable from 30m away and is spammable; the abilities aren't even comparable.

 

No, there is no 11th commandment of gaming that says "Thou shalt not cast an AoE against a single target" however spammable AoEs (and even AoEs on cooldowns) should not be strong enough to make their way into single target rotations.

Edited April 14, 2015 by sloasdaylight

[Icykill_]

if 4 players stand still and focus on you you should be dead

 

Yep... It doesn't matter what class they are... Have 4 Mercs or even just 2-3 snipers focus you and you'll die... it was because they were FOTM that there were so many

Even if they didn't FS, you would still be dead... The fact that people stood in it... Was why they spammed it.... That and the fact that people are so hung up on dps numbers over their actual contribution to the team... The death match attitude that's crept into the game since arena started has ruined objective pvp.... People only judge others on how much dps they do... That's why bad Sorcs "fluffed" their numbers using FS... In reality they really did nothing for the team because FS wouldnt kill anyone who knows how to play

[Draqsko]

Yep... It doesn't matter what class they are... Have 4 Mercs or even just 2-3 snipers focus you and you'll die... it was because they were FOTM that there were so many

Even if they didn't FS, you would still be dead... The fact that people stood in it... Was why they spammed it.... That and the fact that people are so hung up on dps numbers over their actual contribution to the team... The death match attitude that's crept into the game since arena started has ruined objective pvp.... People only judge others on how much dps they do... That's why bad Sorcs "fluffed" their numbers using FS... In reality they really did nothing for the team because FS wouldnt kill anyone who knows how to play

 

Tell me what ability I should use as a Vigilance guardian to kill 4 sorcs that are stacked and spamming FS at their feet? Sure it wouldn't kill me, but it basically rendered any melee useless in whatever area they decided to set up in. I had two choices, charge in and die and hopefully kill one before I did, or wait for the acid and then watch them godbubble through it while it killed me.

 

FS was too strong to be spammable, it should have gone on a cooldown like Mortar Volley or Flyby does if it wanted to keep that strength, or it should be weakened if you wanted to keep it spammable like Hail of Bolts is. Seriously, it is now comparable to Hail of Bolts, in both usage and damage potential.

[sxykitten]

The issue is that because of Recklessness and Force Potency, Force Storm was giving far more damage / resource than it was supposed to and making it ideal as part of even a single-target rotation... so it got nerfed.

 

Generally speaking:

AoE's should only be used (with effectiveness) against multiple targets; not that they have to, but they should. So long as the converse doesn't make sense either... I mean, should a single target ability be effective against multiple targets? Obviously not...

 

even without if you were decently PVP geared it was still to OP.

 

they deff nerfed it because of both PVP+PVE it hit to hard. when you had 3-4 sorcs they could use a choke point & just destroy a group of 8 players as long as someone gets AOE stun off.. been in few Voidstars where team of 3 sorcs & a Jugger could just FS 8 guys down with no issue by using choke points.

 

When 3-4 Sorcs can just pop it on a group of players grouped up at door & kill them all in 1 volly with their buffs...then its OP.

 

As for other AOES. Smash is only great as tank. as dps its crap. as for merc one its meh.....2k Hit vs what a Sorcs used to be which was 8-10k in PVP with the right gear as for OP theres is just as weak.

 

now every AOE is just about same great to interupt Captures thats all.

 

where it was just being only skill you needed.

[Zoom_VI]

You guys are still missing the point. Force Storm was nerfed in order to fix the terrible FPS issues people have been suffering from in warzones and operations since 3.0.

 

Stop being dense.

[ivanhedgehog]

Mortar Volley isn't spammable, and Smash is really weak now even fully buffed. Also, neither of the classes that use those abilities uses them in the optimal single target rotation. Assault Spec Mando would only use Hail of Bolts (not MV) to proc Mag bolt when there's 2 or more targets otherwise charged bolt is better. Focus spec would use Focused Burst optimally in single target rotation, and doesn't pick up any DPS substituting sweep until there is more than 3 targets hit.

 

what jugg tank doesnt use smash to build agro? it doesnt matter if they arent spammable. using them on single targets is bad and should be stopped.

[ivanhedgehog]

Tell me what ability I should use as a Vigilance guardian to kill 4 sorcs that are stacked and spamming FS at their feet? Sure it wouldn't kill me, but it basically rendered any melee useless in whatever area they decided to set up in. I had two choices, charge in and die and hopefully kill one before I did, or wait for the acid and then watch them godbubble through it while it killed me.

 

FS was too strong to be spammable, it should have gone on a cooldown like Mortar Volley or Flyby does if it wanted to keep that strength, or it should be weakened if you wanted to keep it spammable like Hail of Bolts is. Seriously, it is now comparable to Hail of Bolts, in both usage and damage potential.

 

please tell me how I can take down 4 juggs working together with my sorc solo. oh wait..4 enemies working together SHOULD be damn hard to kill solo.

[LoverNoFighter]

please tell me how I can take down 4 juggs working together with my sorc solo. oh wait..4 enemies working together SHOULD be damn hard to kill solo.

 

Anyone who can take down 4 other players on their own is OPed.

[sloasdaylight]

please tell me how I can take down 4 juggs working together with my sorc solo. oh wait..4 enemies working together SHOULD be damn hard to kill solo.

 

There's no spammable ability 4 juggs can use to completely lockdown an area like force storm; you're completely missing the point. It was never "oh noez, 4 enemies working together are supes effective guyz! Wat do?" It was that 4 sorcs, using literally 1 ability that was effectively endlessly spammable were able to control entire areas of combat, forgoing CC, focused fire, or pretty much anything like teamwork other than collectively casting FS in the same general area.

Edited April 15, 2015 by sloasdaylight

[Draqsko]

what jugg tank doesnt use smash to build agro? it doesnt matter if they arent spammable. using them on single targets is bad and should be stopped.

 

If you are worried about how much damage a tank's AOE is going to do in PvP, I got news for you, it's time to uninstall the game.

 

When people are talking damage potential, they are usually talking DPS SPECS.

[Draqsko]

please tell me how I can take down 4 juggs working together with my sorc solo. oh wait..4 enemies working together SHOULD be damn hard to kill solo.

 

Spec into stun bubble.

 

Those 4 juggs pile on you? God bubble, wait til they: A) leave, or B) it channels to full, right before it would cast stun bubble on yourself, get ready to break and force speed because smart ones will try to stun you here, but mostly you can get away with just speed because the smart ones don't stand around for 8 seconds. Soon as they hit you, they eat stun bubble, you force speed out and be 100m before they come out of it.

 

There, you've just survived 4 juggs attacking you better than I could survive 4 sorcs spamming FS on me.

 

PS. I do exactly that to juggs all the time on my sage. It almost never fails.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Draqsko

[ivanhedgehog]

Spec into stun bubble.

 

Those 4 juggs pile on you? God bubble, wait til they: A) leave, or B) it channels to full, right before it would cast stun bubble on yourself, get ready to break and force speed because smart ones will try to stun you here, but mostly you can get away with just speed because the smart ones don't stand around for 8 seconds. Soon as they hit you, they eat stun bubble, you force speed out and be 100m before they come out of it.

 

There, you've just survived 4 juggs attacking you better than I could survive 4 sorcs spamming FS on me.

 

PS. I do exactly that to juggs all the time on my sage. It almost never fails.

so you proved you can run away...you were complaining that you couldnt kill them..

 

what happens when your sage puts 1..yes 1 FQ under the 4 sorcs that have nailed themselves into 1 place? ruins their day. or a bh puts a death from above on them...while 2 other characters are focusing 1 of them. there really isnt any tactic that cant be gotten around if you think...but whining for nerfs is easier I suppose

[Icykill_]

Tell me what ability I should use as a Vigilance guardian to kill 4 sorcs that are stacked and spamming FS at their feet? Sure it wouldn't kill me, but it basically rendered any melee useless in whatever area they decided to set up in. I had two choices, charge in and die and hopefully kill one before I did, or wait for the acid and then watch them godbubble through it while it killed me.

 

FS was too strong to be spammable, it should have gone on a cooldown like Mortar Volley or Flyby does if it wanted to keep that strength, or it should be weakened if you wanted to keep it spammable like Hail of Bolts is. Seriously, it is now comparable to Hail of Bolts, in both usage and damage potential.

 

Firstly use force push to get one them away from the group.... Then leap.... Then kill/stun/root so they can't cast it

This is what I have done on my Juggs.... But if they are spamming it... Don't bother killing them.... They aren't contributing to their team... Just interrupt and put some pressure on them to stop the free casting and move out of FS...

Realistically you shouldn't be able to kill 4 anyway... That would make you OP... It's the same if you jumped in 4 guardians standing together.... They would smash you

Edited April 16, 2015 by Icykill_