Debunk the new Patch; Retiring A Lightning Sorc,

[HandOfKane]

You do realize that Sages got the same nerfs, right? Your faction fanboyism is showing. Edited April 8, 2015 by HandOfKane

[casirabit]

When I read this forum this morning before I headed to work and then school I was worried about my Sorcerer but when I got on tonight to play my lightning sorcerer I saw that I had nothing to worry about it.

 

My sorcerer still does the damage and kills the adds when I am doing what I normally do. Of course, I don't pvp so I have no idea how they perform there but for me there is a light adjustment but then again I didn't use force storm constantly. I rotated my abilities.

 

So for me I see nothing to complain about. I will still be playing my sorcerer like I have since launch.

Edited April 8, 2015 by casi

[Djiini]

You do realize that Sages got the same nerfs, right? Your faction fanboyism is showing.

 

Yeah, but who the **** plays a Telekinetic Sage?

[ZETA_SCORPII]

Biofail is gonna nerf their way to the unemployment line if they keep this **** up.

[FerkWork]

Apology for poor Basic,

When were you when Lightening was nerf?

I was at home drinking Jawa Juice, when Emperor Palpy rang.

"Lightening is kill"

'No'

 

And you?

[CBCronin]

When I read this forum this morning before I headed to work and then school I was worried about my Sorcerer but when I got on tonight to play my lightning sorcerer I saw that I had nothing to worry about it.

 

My sorcerer still does the damage and kills the adds when I am doing what I normally do. Of course, I don't pvp so I have no idea how they perform there but for me there is a light adjustment but then again I didn't use force storm constantly. I rotated my abilities.

 

So for me I see nothing to complain about. I will still be playing my sorcerer like I have since launch.

 

Have just played a few hours tonight, I agree with most of what you say. Against golds and silvers, two or one, hasn't affected my ability use or play style. The one issue I did notice, and it did stand out, using Force Quake or Lightning Storm felt very off ( more than a simple adjust to it over time off).

 

The shortened channel time is jarring, so much so that it felt like the only purpose in using them was to auto proc chain lightning or TK wave.

 

If the goal was to eliminate spamming in PvP, I think they could have accomplished more with a short cool down while retaining the fluid nature of the ability.

[Ghisallo]

Have just played a few hours tonight, I agree with most of what you say. Against golds and silvers, two or one, hasn't affected my ability use or play style. The one issue I did notice, and it did stand out, using Force Quake or Lightning Storm felt very off ( more than a simple adjust to it over time off).

 

The shortened channel time is jarring, so much so that it felt like the only purpose in using them was to auto proc chain lightning or TK wave.

 

If the goal was to eliminate spamming in PvP, I think they could have accomplished more with a short cool down while retaining the fluid nature of the ability.

 

The goal was also to STOP a channeled AoE ability from being the biggest damage in a ST rotation in PvE.

[Aneurysms]

Bioware have done this from day 1 and it happens in all MMO's. Like other people have suggested that should be done which makes sense (which Bioware dev's lack) is seperate PvE from PvP so when they make changes for PvP it does not affect PvE and vice versa. Another option is rather then nurfing a class or two because people are crying OP, they could simple buff the other classes to bring them to the same dps level as said class/classes (maybe not the tank specs tho because their tanks not dps). Its a vicious cycle of nurf this class, but wait the class that wasn't OP is now suddenly OP due to the previous change so we better nurf that class.

 

From previous patches and changes I don't think I have ever seen them reverse a change regardless of how many people disagree with them. So if you want to live don't hold your breath in hopes of that happening lol. Regarding the change to the sorc/sage personally I think all that was needed to balance it for PvP was remove the stun affect from force storm. This would have little affect in PvE, as it would just mean weak mobs are no longer stunned while channeling force storm.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Aneurysms

[Splasm]

Its so funny to read all this stuff. It basically amounts to "oh noes my OP AOE ability that was better at single target damage than some of my single target abilities AND slowed them is now on par with other classes generic aoe abilities! WAAAAH." Lets see here, how many of the classes AOE skills that are channels had a root like sorc:

 

death from above - nope and had a cooldown

sweeping blasters - nope

snipers suppressing fire aoe thingy - nope

orbital/freighter flyby - nope and had a cooldown

 

 

The tears are delicious. Welcome to balanced, we've been waiting for you.

[Ghisallo]

Bioware have done this from day 1 and it happens in all MMO's. Like other people have suggested that should be done which makes sense (which Bioware dev's lack) is seperate PvE from PvP so when they make changes for PvP it does not affect PvE and vice versa.

 

This works for many fixes and indeed should be a standard. Games with a strong PvE basis though have stopped doing it (for the most part) because it is basically like designing and balancing 2 seperate games at the same time. That kinda work is money and as long as no one else is doing it the incentive simply isn't there for the accountants.

 

That said this change WAS NOT A PVP ONLY CHANGE. I am the FIRST person to complain when a PvP change hurts PvE believe me but on day one of 3.0 I said "boys is my sage gonna be nerfed"... the guy who wrote the guide on Dulf said they were NOT showing the rotation with a lot more forcequake in it because they knew it was going to get "toned down" (their "polite" term for nerfed. This was done because an AoE channel was doing more damage than any other ability period. An AoE channel should NOT be a KEY part of an optimal Single target rotation in PvE period.

 

They also specifically address why you CAN'T just buff. I know people hate to be nerfed but PvP has specific targets for "time to kill", PvE instance difficulty is based on total group/raid dps. If you simply buff everyone to OP staus these targets get skewed... PvP becomes a disterous unfun blood bath with everyone spamming their AoEs and PvE becomes a snooze encounter that amounts to smurfs traveling along the country side

 

The denial that is evidenced in this thread and all the others covering the same topic makes me THANK GOD I am not one of the devs because it would take all my self-control not to come to the forums and be "blunt" about the hyperbole used and the utter avoidance of reality that is evident here.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Ghisallo

[Lhuv]

Freighter Flyby anyone ?

 

That was my first thought on that matter.

 

Three of the classes I play recieved adjustments recently (Shadow lost range, Sorc "lost" Storm, BH lost unload). All classes are still playable. Do I miss sone of the abilities? Yes of cause! Will I get over it?

Hell yes! I play Scoundrel since release...

[ivanhedgehog]

I'm glad you gave your character a fair chance to reassess just what the changes mean in real terms. You know, seeing as the servers have been back up for a whole 40 minutes thus far.

 

pts has been there for weeks

Edited April 8, 2015 by ivanhedgehog

[Ghisallo]

pts has been there for weeks

 

and your blatant ignoring that Sorc/Sage has more survivability tool... thus negating your "glass cannon" rationalization shows you can't test properly because to test properly you must understand the classes.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Ghisallo

[IkarusXY]

To be honest, we are class canons in terms of PvE.

 

Yes we can heal ourselfes and shield. One of these shields breaks pretty easy under heavy damage. The instant self heal and especially our force barrier have considerable high cooldown. In a very long bossfight i might be lucky to be able to use force barrier twice, but thats it.

 

Every Sage/Sorc who ever cleared the Sword Squadron Walkers on HM should know how much of a struggle the incoming damage is compared to other classes and how well you need to time every ability to not get nuked. Especially when you are the lucky guy to catch the large grenade together with the gravity missile and the rain of missiles right after (to clearify, of course it depends on the player and some might not struggle as much as others, but the incoming damage is still considerable for sage/sorc).

 

We are also one of the few classes that dont have cheese abilitys (dodge roll, hydraulic/hold the line). Only force barrier is of use and highly risky to use for an actual mechanic because our best defense cooldown is gone for a long time.

 

Sometimes it doesnt matter if i can -theoretically- heal to full when i just get nuked from orbit.

Edited April 8, 2015 by IkarusXY

[Bobs_YourUncle]

Wow, I was reading all this yesterday while at work, about the nerfs to lightening sorc rendering them useless. Really worried about that because im in the middle of leveling a lightening sorc and just got into a groove in PvP (thanks TUX for the encouragement). Once I figured out the WZ objectives, took a breath, and just stuck with what I know of playing the class, I think I did pretty damn well, getting 15 to 25 kills per match and always near the top of damage and medals. I thought, well, maybe that's why things are going so well playing the class, and I dreaded trying PvP and PvE out when I got home after all these nerfs.

 

To my surprise, it did not feel at all different, my rotation still worked, skills lighting up for cast on the move, defensive shields keeping me alive, force sprint or whatever, getting me out of danger, stuns still worked fine. I did a fast five warzones and still found myself near the top in dmg, kills, medals. I even got 4 mvp votes.

 

Im real new to pvp, just started going for it two days ago, maybe 3, and its a level 25 toon as of last night. So based on those numbers maybe im not doing so good. I don't have much experience at all to compare except to the previous couple days of PvP.

 

PvE seemed the same as well, though the 3 second channel of lightening storm was noticeably shorter, and one or two enemies came after me due to the stun being removed. The storm still makes chain lightening light up for instant cast, so those fell before even getting to me.

 

If lightening sorc is now broken, it must be at higher levels, it still seems super easy to play at 25 on tatooine, even without being able to kill every mob with a full channel of lightening storm. If anything, its more fun.

[LoverNoFighter]

Killing every mob with a full channeled Forcestorm WAS the fun of playing a Sorc.

You actually felt a bit like a true Forcemaster. Now we're just plain apprentices.

[Bobs_YourUncle]

Killing every mob with a full channeled Forcestorm WAS the fun of playing a Sorc.

You actually felt a bit like a true Forcemaster. Now we're just plain apprentices.

 

To each his own I guess, but It seemed quite boring to me. In any case, force storm still takes care of most of the mob, and you can always cast it immediately after for another 3 seconds which should mop up any remnants in any case. idk about you, but even without using force storm at all, my sorc still seems powerful. Plain apprentices, just seems a bit melodramatic to me lol.

[Orizuru]

Wow, I was reading all this yesterday while at work, about the nerfs to lightening sorc rendering them useless. Really worried about that because im in the middle of leveling a lightening sorc and just got into a groove in PvP (thanks TUX for the encouragement). Once I figured out the WZ objectives, took a breath, and just stuck with what I know of playing the class, I think I did pretty damn well, getting 15 to 25 kills per match and always near the top of damage and medals. I thought, well, maybe that's why things are going so well playing the class, and I dreaded trying PvP and PvE out when I got home after all these nerfs.

 

To my surprise, it did not feel at all different, my rotation still worked, skills lighting up for cast on the move, defensive shields keeping me alive, force sprint or whatever, getting me out of danger, stuns still worked fine. I did a fast five warzones and still found myself near the top in dmg, kills, medals. I even got 4 mvp votes.

 

Im real new to pvp, just started going for it two days ago, maybe 3, and its a level 25 toon as of last night. So based on those numbers maybe im not doing so good. I don't have much experience at all to compare except to the previous couple days of PvP.

 

PvE seemed the same as well, though the 3 second channel of lightening storm was noticeably shorter, and one or two enemies came after me due to the stun being removed. The storm still makes chain lightening light up for instant cast, so those fell before even getting to me.

 

If lightening sorc is now broken, it must be at higher levels, it still seems super easy to play at 25 on tatooine, even without being able to kill every mob with a full channel of lightening storm. If anything, its more fun.

 

Thanks for sharing your experience.

 

I did an 8 man SM Ravagers with my guild last night on my level 60 Sorc. I felt pretty much the same as you. The shorter duration on FS was odd at first, but I adjusted. I do feel like it created a couple of dead spots in my AoE rotation when Chain Lightning was on cooldown, but I think that was just me trying to clip casting too closely. I had zero problems with resource management and the group had zero trouble with killing anything. We did notice that some of the largest trash pulls took a few seconds longer to clear, but there was no risk added to the group by that fact.

 

We ended up finishing the Ops run in about 50 minutes. We even managed to turn around and downed HM Sparky when we finished.

 

As a group my guild is comparing some parses for our best Sorcs to compare with parses from our best Mercs and Snipers to see if there is a dps gap. On paper and on target dummies, it does appear that the nerf was a little heavy handed and the class is behind the curve slightly. This could be a pretty big issue for any Sorc in HM or NiM progression.

[Raphael_diSanto]

To each his own I guess, but It seemed quite boring to me. In any case, force storm still takes care of most of the mob, and you can always cast it immediately after for another 3 seconds which should mop up any remnants in any case. idk about you, but even without using force storm at all, my sorc still seems powerful. Plain apprentices, just seems a bit melodramatic to me lol.

This.

 

Two of the new Storm/Quakes is -almost- equal to one of the old ones, and since they're now half duration, it works out just fine.

 

Bob's right - To each your own - My preferred playstyle is one that many MMO players would consider boring, but I like it. And since the nerf, I really haven't had to change it.

 

If you were killing things by spamming Storm/Quake before and you somehow can't do it now, then I don't know what to tell you. I was a quakespammer before, I'm a quakespammer now, and it still works just fine for me. I don't come any closer to dying than I ever did before.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Raphael_diSanto

[CBCronin]

The goal was also to STOP a channeled AoE ability from being the biggest damage in a ST rotation in PvE.

A short cool down to me would have done the same, without feeling as if the animation was cut short. You literally rise into the air only to fall out of it now.

 

When I said jarring in the original post, I was focusing more on the aesthetic and feel of the ability, not damage potential of any rotation or build.

[TUXs]

Wow, I was reading all this yesterday while at work, about the nerfs to lightening sorc rendering them useless. Really worried about that because im in the middle of leveling a lightening sorc and just got into a groove in PvP (thanks TUX for the encouragement). Once I figured out the WZ objectives, took a breath, and just stuck with what I know of playing the class, I think I did pretty damn well, getting 15 to 25 kills per match and always near the top of damage and medals. I thought, well, maybe that's why things are going so well playing the class, and I dreaded trying PvP and PvE out when I got home after all these nerfs.

Wow...you're welcome

 

However...thank YOU for giving PvP a chance!!!

 

I hope it becomes an activity you enjoy. I've been PvPing in MMOs for years now, and I can say that without any doubt, the people I've met while PvPing, have been the most incredible players in the games. We (PvPers) want you to like it. We want you to keep PvPing. We understand that you are key to our enjoyment. Don't let the jackholes get to you...for every jerk you meet, there will be 100 phenomenal people

[Sarfux]

You can thank the FOTM rerollers that only spammed force storm in pvp and had absolutely no idea how to play it otherwise. They're the ones that ruined your class for you.

I do pretty much agree with this actually. As much as others want to deny it.

[WorldSmasher]

I played my Sith Sorc, yesterday after reading - and adding my two cents.... There really is a drop in performance. Before, I was doing alright, fighting mobs 2 or 3 levels higher than my toon, I'm talking about silver and gold mobs, with a 50/50 mix of blues and greens, no implants, and no ear piece. No way I could do it after the nerf. I had to re-equip with all orange gear with blue mods and get implants and an ear piece, before I was back near to where I was before with just a 50/50 mix of blues and greens.... Now that's a nerf!

 

I'd hate to think what PvP would be like. Let's see what the after action reports of PvP'ers look like.

[Kryand]

To be honest, we are class canons in terms of PvE.

 

Yes we can heal ourselfes and shield. One of these shields breaks pretty easy under heavy damage. The instant self heal and especially our force barrier have considerable high cooldown. In a very long bossfight i might be lucky to be able to use force barrier twice, but thats it.

 

Every Sage/Sorc who ever cleared the Sword Squadron Walkers on HM should know how much of a struggle the incoming damage is compared to other classes and how well you need to time every ability to not get nuked. Especially when you are the lucky guy to catch the large grenade together with the gravity missile and the rain of missiles right after (to clearify, of course it depends on the player and some might not struggle as much as others, but the incoming damage is still considerable for sage/sorc).

 

We are also one of the few classes that dont have cheese abilitys (dodge roll, hydraulic/hold the line). Only force barrier is of use and highly risky to use for an actual mechanic because our best defense cooldown is gone for a long time.

 

Sometimes it doesnt matter if i can -theoretically- heal to full when i just get nuked from orbit.

 

Frankly, people who say Sorc/Sage is the most fragile class simply do not know how to use their defensive abilities. The important number is damage taken minus self-heals, because that's the actual stress you personally put on the healers, and in my case, that number was far better than anyone else on the team in every fight, without slowing my DPS down at all. I've never once been "one-shotted" in HM unless I did something dumb, and I never even use Force Barrier unless **** hits the fan, and the whole group is dying (or if it's part of the fight strategy, like taking Ion Cutter stacks in Master&Blaster).

 

Sorc survive ability is insane and better than most other classes. I'm debating continuing my Sorc in HM just because of the fact that our healers almost never have to put a single-target heal on me in any fight, but I'll have to see where the DPS falls. Now it's possible that I just don't know how to use the defensives on the other classes, but if you want to tell me they are anywhere near as good as Sorcs, then no DPS in any ops team should ever die from damage on any fight in the game unless they don't know how to use them.

[SithEater]

As a group my guild is comparing some parses for our best Sorcs to compare with parses from our best Mercs and Snipers to see if there is a dps gap. On paper and on target dummies, it does appear that the nerf was a little heavy handed and the class is behind the curve slightly. This could be a pretty big issue for any Sorc in HM or NiM progression.

This is real issue everyone is missing, nerf quake/storm was inevitable, by why on earth did they nerf the proc rates and damage? Its main effect was to nerf PVE stats not pvp, and not a small nerf either. So now commando/merc who was already top of the pack simply pulls farther ahead of sage/sorc, all because the pvp whiners whined.