The Jedi Knight, and Sith Warrior classes need a huge buff.

[mrfoughtforever]

Here's a guy who thinks Guardians/Juggs are fine, and can back up his words with experience, evidence and understanding:

 

http://guard-this.com/

[Noth]

Here's a guy who thinks Guardians/Juggs are fine, and can back up his words with experience, evidence and understanding:

 

http://guard-this.com/

 

Players can make the class work, that does not mean the class is OK. He often runs with premades in pvp (in which any class can do well), and has a good group for pve. It is honestly hilarious how much easier it to is keep aggro on my powertech than it is on my Jugg while also dishing out more damage than my jugg. There are issues with the class when you look outside of the class. To say otherwise only expresses your ignorance.

[dargor-]

Here's a guy who thinks Guardians/Juggs are fine, and can back up his words with experience, evidence and understanding:

 

http://guard-this.com/

 

Here's a guy who thinks US economy is fine, and can back up his words with experience, evidence and understanding:

 

See what I did there

Edited January 19, 2012 by dargor-

[FLYFX]

This change will completely DESTROY hutball.......

 

Force Leap to score and get knocked back down?

 

No problem

 

Force Push and try again.......

 

 

Destroy hutball? You have no idea what you are talking about. YOu need a target to leap to, its not like we are leaping to a targeted space we wish to leap to. When we are stunned we get stunned forever once we cast the break because our break timer is too long. We need a slight advantage and this isn't too much of an advantage at all due to the crap damage output we have.

[blujoker]

To the OP, what kind of NPCs were you fighting on Ilum. Just got to 50 recently myself, but cleaning up my journal still, but play a Commando, and have noticed that I have to be extremely careful with what I try to fight.

 

I pretty much avoid NPCs I know use a lot of elemental or internal damage (i.e. I won't touch gold and champion sith inquisitor & snipers above lvl 40 without a second player), so just curious maybe that is why you are feeling more squishy then you had.

[darkestvice]

I've been playing with both a Jugg and a Vanguard, both tank specced. For the record, neither character is very high level, so I'll comment on my experience PVE questing in low to mid levels.

 

I will also comment on my experience with *tanking* specs, not dps ones.

 

The Van is A LOT easier to play with. Now I'm not claiming that my Jugg gets stomped on a lot, and in fact I really enjoy playing her, but it does take significantly more effort. It is indeed a L2P matter, but one that's perhaps a little too Learn and not enough Play. There is a considerable learning curve involved.

 

Except for one attack that is spammable, a Vanguard tank's defensive talents are all, or nearly all, passive. They just work without user intervention, so aside from threat generation, you could probably stand still and go fetch a soda in the fridge (yes, it's an exaggeration, but not much of one) and still be highly survivable.

 

The Juggernaut needs an aoe attack with a cooldown, a retaliatory attack with a cooldown, and a strong single target attack with a cooldown to trigger defensive talents to match the mitigation or avoidance necessary to tank. And you need to cycle through the three constantly or you're in trouble.

 

In other words, compared to the Vanguard, a Juggernaut requires you to be on your toes *all the time*. Now while I'm not saying this is a bad thing as it actually makes for an enjoyable and frenetic play experience, there are indeed days when you're just really tired and don't have the brain space for that sort of thing. I'm not even at a high level, yet I already have two skill bars and two additional skills all keybound. Was this intended design?

 

Also, while it is true that a Van's ammo becomes a real problem if he uses it too quickly, why is it that a Van's tanking stance also includes a damage boost, whereas the Jugg one reduces his damage output by nerfing his rage generation. In fact, the Van tanking tree has quite a few damaging abilities or boosts, whereas the Van has very few. I can definitely see why people complain when they compare the two of them as a Van will blow through a group of mobs quicker than a Jugg when similarly specced and armored. Not to mention the Van has three strong AOE attacks early on, whereas the Jugg only has one.

 

Of all things, I think it's the latter paragraph that's the issue. The Jugg is definitely a complex class to play, but some people like it this way. But even with the added skill necessary to play the class over another, a Jugg's dps suffers considerably and their AOE is virtually non existent.

 

Out of curiosity, as I don't have experience in the matter, how's the Assassin/Shadow tanking spec for PVE compared the two aforementioned classes?

[GarfieldJL]

Because "destroying people" can be achieved by anything if they have either/and/or :

 

a) Pocket Healer/Tank

b) Full PvP gear

c) Opponent is wearing greens

d) Opponent is level 20

e) Opponent is just standing there

f) Your Pug team is actually competent

 

 

But hey, thanks for the useless and misleading comment, your kind of people is useful and really needed on these forums.

 

Quote for Truth.

 

 

I would say the Jedi Knight Class and the Sith Warrior class in general needs some major buffs.

 

The controls are often unresponsive due to the animations. I would suggest that when we actually deflect an attack there is a chance that we redirect the attack back at the attacker. There are enemies already that can do damage back at their opponent if attacked in a certain way. Make it so Jedi Knight and Sith Warrior has that ability too, and make it a passive skill.

 

So there is a compensation for the animation knocking out skills issues.

[TotalImmortal]

I think SJ is a strongest class and may be it will be nerfed. So keep whining, I dont want it to happen.

[Noth]

I think SJ is a strongest class and may be it will be nerfed. So keep whining, I dont want it to happen.

 

You sir have a very skewed vision of balance.

[Redec]

I have been a serious PVPer since the original EQ. Warhammer and SWG(pre NGE) were my main games before SWTOR. I had a lot of hope pinned on SWTOR because of the PVP developers had a hand in WARs PVP. That being said I have played a Sith Juggernaut 1-50. Since I am not a big PVEer I dont have much to say about that. I enjoyed the story and used Vette throughout it. I didnt have help for any class quest and soloed some 2 man heriocs. Soloed Baras too. PVE being challenging doesn't bother me.

 

What bothers me is being killed over and over by the same classes the exact same ways in PVP. I am good about learnng other classes and counters to certian rotations people like to use. Sure I can kill baddies all day long, but as soon as someone comes along that knows how to PVP I am dead. I am 50/56 and mostly champ armor. I have tried all 3 trees, hybrids, and whatever to get a small edge or boost. No luck. I know the issues. They have been stated over and over again but they seem to ignore us.

 

Our defense is crap. Only working against white damage? Really?

 

Damage specs putting out 1/4 of what BHs and Troopers do. Really? I use BH and troopers as examples because they are heavy armored tanks. We should be on par with them right? To be truthfull we should put a little more DPS than they do since they are RANGE. Don't even get me started on the BH pull. Really?

 

I have went against some BH/Troopers and was destroyed standing toe to toe with them. WHY? What developer in their right mind thinks this is ok? In what state of mind should a range be able to stand toe to toe with a melee class and not even break a sweat killing them. I pop everything known to man. I use my rakata med pack before nerf, adrenals, relics and still stand no chance against a good BH or trooper. There are serious issues here.

 

If you are a healing inquistor or consulars and die 1v1 to a jug then you need to study your class. Thats all I have to say about that. No amount of interrupts or stuns will bring down a good healing inq or consular.

 

Op and Scoundrels kill us fast because of the defense issue. I might as well be wearing cheese as armor against one. If you dont believe me I will offer a link showing a level 37 OP fighting a level 50 Jug proving how bad the defense/armor reduction design is comparing white vs special damage.

 

If you tell me I need to learn my class then you obviously need all your characters deleted except for a Jug/Guardian and forced to PVP. If you are happy with your Jug/Guardian then I am happy you enjoy being able to kill baddies and will offer names of many people who will put you to shame in PVP.

 

Please look into this. I know if you put a combat log in you will have many POed jugs and guardians.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Redec

[Rhinzual]

Players can make the class work, that does not mean the class is OK. He often runs with premades in pvp (in which any class can do well), and has a good group for pve. It is honestly hilarious how much easier it to is keep aggro on my powertech than it is on my Jugg while also dishing out more damage than my jugg. There are issues with the class when you look outside of the class. To say otherwise only expresses your ignorance.

 

A shield tech powertech has access to a lot of elemental damage. From what the tooltips have told me, outside of maybe force choke and force push, I think, all of our damage is kinetic and thus gets negated by armor unless we spend time stacking sundering assault. Sure DFA is kinetic, but it's a 1 minute area targeted attack that can do knockback. Even smash which is similar to flame sweep does kinetic damage instead of say, internal. The difference in damage types determines how much is negated.

[RagingSage]

This is still an issue, why is nothing being done about this?

[Noth]

A shield tech powertech has access to a lot of elemental damage. From what the tooltips have told me, outside of maybe force choke and force push, I think, all of our damage is kinetic and thus gets negated by armor unless we spend time stacking sundering assault. Sure DFA is kinetic, but it's a 1 minute area targeted attack that can do knockback. Even smash which is similar to flame sweep does kinetic damage instead of say, internal. The difference in damage types determines how much is negated.

 

push and choke also do kinetic. The only damage that the jugg can do that is not negated by armor is the weak dots and shatter in the vengeance tree.

[Weinerschnitzel]

And as others have mentioned, I wouldn't take my sweet time making ridiculously minor attempts to fix the class, because if you damage your games reputation early and lose a bunch of players over it, mmos can have a hard time recovering from that kind of damage - kind of like a sith warrior when fighting even level enemies...

 

You've made a great game, but gimping what is unquestionably the best thing to come out of the sw universe, is a huge blemish that can ruin the whole thing.

 

this made a lot of sense to me....i really hope that some BW dev sees this.

[dragondeath]

well i'm glad i'm not the only one thinking or observing all of this and the only two characters I've played so far have been a jedi sentinel and a trooper commando. Well technically i'n not glad that i'm not the only one whose obseved this. Dang this is a real let down i would have liked it if my own thoughts where not confirmed. Edited January 20, 2012 by dragondeath

[Denubisx]

I have been a serious PVPer since the original EQ. Warhammer and SWG(pre NGE) were my main games before SWTOR. I had a lot of hope pinned on SWTOR because of the PVP developers had a hand in WARs PVP. That being said I have played a Sith Juggernaut 1-50. Since I am not a big PVEer I dont have much to say about that. I enjoyed the story and used Vette throughout it. I didnt have help for any class quest and soloed some 2 man heriocs. Soloed Baras too. PVE being challenging doesn't bother me.

 

What bothers me is being killed over and over by the same classes the exact same ways in PVP. I am good about learnng other classes and counters to certian rotations people like to use. Sure I can kill baddies all day long, but as soon as someone comes along that knows how to PVP I am dead. I am 50/56 and mostly champ armor. I have tried all 3 trees, hybrids, and whatever to get a small edge or boost. No luck. I know the issues. They have been stated over and over again but they seem to ignore us.

 

Our defense is crap. Only working against white damage? Really?

 

Damage specs putting out 1/4 of what BHs and Troopers do. Really? I use BH and troopers as examples because they are heavy armored tanks. We should be on par with them right? To be truthfull we should put a little more DPS than they do since they are RANGE. Don't even get me started on the BH pull. Really?

 

I have went against some BH/Troopers and was destroyed standing toe to toe with them. WHY? What developer in their right mind thinks this is ok? In what state of mind should a range be able to stand toe to toe with a melee class and not even break a sweat killing them. I pop everything known to man. I use my rakata med pack before nerf, adrenals, relics and still stand no chance against a good BH or trooper. There are serious issues here.

 

If you are a healing inquistor or consulars and die 1v1 to a jug then you need to study your class. Thats all I have to say about that. No amount of interrupts or stuns will bring down a good healing inq or consular.

 

Op and Scoundrels kill us fast because of the defense issue. I might as well be wearing cheese as armor against one. If you dont believe me I will offer a link showing a level 37 OP fighting a level 50 Jug proving how bad the defense/armor reduction design is comparing white vs special damage.

 

If you tell me I need to learn my class then you obviously need all your characters deleted except for a Jug/Guardian and forced to PVP. If you are happy with your Jug/Guardian then I am happy you enjoy being able to kill baddies and will offer names of many people who will put you to shame in PVP.

 

Please look into this. I know if you put a combat log in you will have many POed jugs and guardians.

 

+1 as a person who only pvps as a tank spec jugg with almost full champions gear (missing 3 pieces) it is a joke.

 

other tanks> our dps and have more range moves (tech/force hits)

healing sorcs or cons = auto kill on us 1 on 1. if they somehow lose this they have to be horrible.....and i mean beyond horrible if gear is even.

ops/smugs.......can drop us quick (tank spec give me a break)

 

pvp tank armor stats need to be adjusted not to mention jugg dps in general

[Uruare]

I've leveled both a jugg and a marauder and, for my experiences with both, I'll chime in with the following.

 

If you have a healbot, you're usually fine for regular PVE content. If you have a high end gaming mouse/keypad you can comfortably hotkey the 25+ things you WILL need to use regularly if you want to have any hope at all of keeping pace with other classes with a 6-10 button minimum for all around optimal function AND you USE those tools as effectively as you can, you're probably gonna be ok.

 

 

Trouble is, if you're like probably the hilariously vast majorities, you're not playing with a Razr Naga mouse or a Nostromo keypad.

 

Chances are really good that you're playing with a regular keyboard and a 2-5 button mouse.

 

If you have a 2 button mouse, you're just screwed if you're not a piano player for how much of your keyboard you'll have to dedicate to positionally advantageous hotkeys that, often, aren't positionally advantageous at all; just the best you'll be able to do with what you've got.

 

If you have a 3-5 button mouse and a normal keyboard, you can hotkey something (I prefer Charge) to the middle mouse button and get some good use out of the q,e,r,f,t,g and 1,2,3,4,5,6 and F1, F2, F3, F4 keys.

 

From F5 over and from 6 over, they're just too far away from where your fingers will typically be resting on the WASD keys to be anything but problematic (if you're not some sort of dextrous savant) to use.

 

 

You'll be forced to rely on manual mouse pointer activation of everything you couldn't include in hotkey range, which will and probably does find many abandoning roughly half of the situational and circumstantially useful abilities a warrior has, since you really can't build an effective and consistent rotation with those; they're situational and circumstantial in ways you frequently don't have the means to create the circumstances or situations for.

 

Or, in the case of things like chilling scream or intimidating roar, are terribly useful in PVP and PVE respectively, but don't do damage, don't last long or just don't work on enough things for someone with a regular sort of 3-5 button mouse and a standard sort of keyboard to spare hotkeys for.

 

However, if you're a virtuoso of the keyboard or you have some swank gaming equipment with intelligently positioned and fully customizable hotkey/macro options so that you can reaslistically use everything a Warrior brings to the table at any given time, whenever it would be most optimal to do so?

 

And you have a healer glued to your butt?

 

You're golden.

 

It's bad class design. I suspect that whoever designed the warrior classes has been using things like a Razr naga and/or other gaming-specialized hardware for such a long time that they neglected entirely to account for the vast majorities that do not.

 

And so they designed a class that is half in the tank if you don't have and make use of such equipment.

 

That's just my suspicion. I've seen people design a lot of various things, and they very often, without even meaning to, tend to design them in conformity with their own needs and proficiencies as a baseline template.

 

It also smacks of some very poor referencing of beta feedback. This has all been said before.

 

Maybe there was some never-to-be-publically-admitted agreement that Darth Vader and Obi Wan classes would be...aimed at the elite of the elite. Maybe somebody thought it would just be the coolest thing ever if it were a comparative-to-everything-else super complex archetype to play and that it would be made 'special' for those that mastered it if they could master it at all.

 

Mastery of this class requires nothing more than a mere $200 investment in some nice gaming hardware. If you have that and can read tooltips, it's just as easy to play as a BH spamming Tracer Missile to kill everything; you're just using a lot more buttons to do it.

 

Though, frankly, if you have the GOOD hardware, you can set entire attack chains to a single button press. Go into the preset folder on my keypad, use the swank GUI to assign activation of button 1 immediately when I press the blue key, 1.5s later button 2 with a .2 second delay before activating button 3.

 

Isn't effective to chain too much onto a single keypress like that. Charge + Force Scream + Retaliation is a favorite combo of mine though; if Retaliation isn't up, whoop de doo, it doesn't activate.

 

If it is? Poppoppop! You done been charged, bellowed at and stabbed for probably upwards of 7k damage, and all I had to do was press one button.

 

That's the power of hardware, my friends, and this class was practically engineered for freaks like me that have such hardware.

 

WHich is entirely wrong and bad and really, really ridiculous of whoever did it to have done it like that.

 

Shouldn't require this kind of hardware to be able to play a class competently.

 

They'll learn.

[JohraTon]

Personally I don't really find it much of a problem. You forget Ilum is an endgame planet and decent gear is really required there. If it wasn't that way, when you are eventually geared up the content wouldn't be a challenge.

 

As for PvP, a skilled Marauder is almost unstoppable by most classes. The tough part for us at the moment is the new Ilum update favours those with ranged dps, but it was the same way in SWG.

 

Why people are crying about op's and smugglers so much is starting to get annoying, if your CC breaker is available they aren't that hard unless the player is good. In that case they'd win most instances anyway considering they're attacking first and are fully prep'd before you have a chance to prepare.

 

If your stun breaker is on cool down then so what? Their best attacks are done to stunned targets and you don't have your best defence available.

 

The game will never be balanced for all classes to have the same chance against each other 1 on 1. Most PvP encounters are done as part of a team so learn your roll within that team and do it. If you run in trying to smash commando's with an Immortal Jugg's DPS then your bound to have a tough time.

[Genocidalx]

Well, I was under the impression upon doing some class reading pre-release (and I still think my logic is sound, even if my assumptions proved otherwise) and assumed the Juggernaut/Guardian would be the main tanks of either faction. I based this assumption on the fact that they were melee (the concept of a ranged tank still doesn't make ANY sense to me) and were denoted by the developers themselves as "tanks."

 

Seems pretty simple, no?

 

Well, if we flash forward, and theorycraft has proven this, we find that Juggs/Guardians are the worst tanks in the pure sense of the word.

 

I assumed 3 things for certain prior to playing a Jugg and reaching 50.

 

1. I would sacrifice DPS.

 

2. I would have the capacity to absorb and mitigate a high volume of damage.

 

3. I'd have the best tools to manipulate fights towards conditions that were beneficial to my groups/parties.

 

The only thing I've found to be accurate of my initial assumptions is that I have sacrificed DPS. A LOT of it. But you know what? I'm okay with that. That was assumed in my planning phase.

 

What I'm NOT okay with are the tools I have to manipulate fights, and the amount of damage I can absorb and mitigate, particularly in PvP, as every class was given internal damage to effectively erase my purpose (this is in full champion gear minus the belt only), and otherwise capped expertise.

 

My ability to take damage should be directly proportionate to the damage I sacrifice. This is not the case.

 

Guard is a good ability, but the honest truth of the matter is that I'm never absorbing or mitigating ANY damage, but instead I'm dispersing the damage between 2 targets, that's it. The same damage is going through regardless. I just slow the burst pace. This is not good.

 

Off topic: A common fight I will encounter is a stealther popping out of stealth, knocking me down, at which time I'll immediately spend Unleash because I don't feel like being dead before I stand up (internal damage and I'm a "tank" ).

 

I will force choke (free channeled) -> sundering assault -> Ravage (2 hits) -> force push -> saber throw + force leap (to build rage) -> sundering assault -> [perform a whatever rotation necessary based on how my opponent reacts, or how I think he'll react].

 

By the time he's ready to fight back, I'm lucky if I have 50% life left, and he simply proceeds to finish me off with 70-90% life remaining. I cannot mitigate his damage effectively, and there's certainly nothing I can do to stay alive. Invincible, sabre ward, endure pain and no uses of backhand, force choke or any combination/rotation of CC abilities can help me win the fight, I just die a slower death for for a few seconds.

 

The final point being that I'm not mitigating damage in a fair or acceptable way to compensate for my dps.

 

I should restate that, as a tank, my concerns lie more in damage mitigation and battle manipulation than the dps I do.

 

A couple of proposed fixes, in PvP guard, or at least the Juggernaut/Guardian guards, should have attached them a damage mitigation bonus on top of the damage dispersion. The threat reduction serves no purpose in PvP and so we lose half of the ability's goodness.

 

Reduce the number of internal damage abilities in the game, or give Juggs/Guardians a low-tier buff resistance for it in the defensive tree (perhaps 3 levels @ 10% each - the latter solution is more feasible).

 

Increase their natural threat generation, an inherent, passive boost to the Jugg/Guardian classes on all attacks that scales appropriately for weak attacks and strong attacks.

 

Revisit and recalculate your passive and special absorption calculations per armor type, rating, and generator.

 

Give them a reliable AoE threat ability, be it a pulse or an active ability with a decent radius. (Remember the Paladin from DAoC, they controlled aggro not through DPS, but taunt abilities and a small chanting Heal Over Time that healed everyone in the group for a small amount every 6 seconds, helping them passively maintain aggro on themselves among groups. This would be a fine and excellent idea for the Jugg/Guardian. I wouldn't even need to heal, but just pulse a taunt to a certain radius).

 

All in all, I don't want to do more damage, I just want to stand longer, stronger, and be able to direct fights into favorable situations.

 

 

As a healer I cringe when I get a jugg tank; they simply cant grab aggro good enough- I take so much damage due to heal aggro, that I waste so much heat just to keep myself alive that sometime the tank dies.

 

CC? Its annoying to have to cc every pack. Makes the run go so slow.

 

Edit: Oh yeah, Unleash and, well, all CC breaking abilities need to have CC immunity attached to them after activation for some amount a time. 2, 4, 6 seconds... something. Otherwise they're only good for saving you a second or two after your resolve bar is full, and the ability goes to waste the majority of the time.

Edited January 20, 2012 by Genocidalx

[Errthu]

Tank assasins and Powertechs do more damage and have heals... and the only usefull thing we have are leaps.

[-Makaz-]

Hi guys,

 

 

[*]We make our balancing decisions based on a combination of internal and external testing and metrics. We don't make decisions based on who is the loudest on the forums. Community feedback is valuable in bringing issues to our attention and even to highlight possible solutions, which means that well written are the most effective way to communicate your wishes and feedback to us, rather than petitions and calls to nerf specific classes.

 

-- Georg

 

 

I think it would be wise to review this process. I won't mention this week's of Ilium, the absence of regression testing between builds or the obvious bugs on EV... Let's be honest this statement has little credibility for anyone playing the game right now. nevertheless, I understand your problem, I am a IT Project Manager and I do know that fully testing an application is impossibly expensive and absolutely impossible - so I can live with that

 

I used to be a great supporter of you Georg - since you were always switched on, responsive, etc... during the beta. Now I agree it is easier to share 1 Georg between 1000 testers rather than between 1M players but I had confidence in you, your test data, your announcements etc...

 

I am really disappointed.

 

I was reading your comment about the marauder in this post and it shocks me to read what your main concern is. Having classes dificult to play (assassin, marauder,...) or easy to play (1 button mercenary) should not be a concern for you as this is a MMO - there IS a learning curve for each class and people WILL either love the complex gameplay and improve OR hate it and find a class more suitable for their purposes.

 

However instead of trying to dumb down classes to the extreme, why not address CRITICAL imbalances that this games constantly throw to the face to everyone instead of trying to fix what is currently nice in the game - the fact that there are multiple types of gameplay available for different people.

 

One of the critical imbalance that you have right now is that some classes are stuff dependant whilst other aren't. It is simple as that. Of course, when you throw some players in a melee, you always have a happy side and an unhappy side. In the greater randomness of the game, where people stuff are fighting people unstuff, this happyness / unhappiness factor will be more or less balanced with no more than a couple of nerf threads on a forum - so for a while this can be lived with.

 

But what happens when people start touching endgame stuff (accelerated by the recent illium exploit). Then you cry - At this point, players know their class a minimum to play it decently. So what will happen is that a class depend stuff in BM gear will ALWAYS be steamrolled by a less class depend stuff. This creates frustration, more angry threads, reroll, class restrictions in groups, class number imbalance etc.. etc... things far more worrying that taking away the enjoyment of learning.

 

For example, at the very early stage of the game, one of my marauder mate spent all his bg NAKED, wearing no armor but just the implants & weapons. This never prevented him from fighting on par and gaining the advantage on other players of the same level. As a contrary, an assassin would need to have some some stuff of that level to get the same results.

 

Now at endgame, a BM gear marauder in rage spec is an immortal killing machine which can be match by only a very limited number of classes in the same situation (burst agent or madness inquisitor or powertech bh) but all the other classes are just pointless to play against it.

 

And you are talking about making it EASIER to play...

 

I say ignore these testers, start playing the game against good players, understand your mistake, and start again.

[ShoteR]

i have recently reached lvl 50 with my jugg , and i played with all specs , i'm currently playing as rage , but i feel very underpowered , if i fight a mob with 2 silver mobs i'm pretty much dead even with my healing companion. i'm thinking on rolling a BH or an IA because clearly bioware nerfed JK / SW so ppl would go to non-force sensitive classes ,

thing is , i ALWAYS played melee classes and now i'm almost feeling obligated to play ranged now , i am very dissapointed with swtor endgame and i'm seriously thinking on canceling my subscription.

 

swtor is a great single player game , but it sucks pretty bad as a mmo game

[Armorall]

I went thru the same trouble as jugg. Around level 30ish was really rough, but was fine killing full groups with Dr. Quin in the 40s. Same thing happened to me when I went to Ilum, got creamed by 2 regulars and a strong. So I went to do dailies in belsavis, same thing but not as bad. Soooo, I went on a shopping spree on IGN. Upgraded to every crafting purple except chest piece and boom, whole new jugg. Same pull but with my hp at around 70% left. Just trying to say warriors in general are a tank/heavy armor class that are VERY gear dependent (most ppl already know, some don't). Were not suppose to be putting out huge amounts of dps, in some cases sure, savour that time that we were buffed. Move on or reroll diff class. Wouldn't be fair if a heavy armor class going around 2-3 shotting people....oh wait there is. But anyways, good hunting

[Rhinzual]

I went thru the same trouble as jugg. Around level 30ish was really rough, but was fine killing full groups with Dr. Quin in the 40s. Same thing happened to me when I went to Ilum, got creamed by 2 regulars and a strong. So I went to do dailies in belsavis, same thing but not as bad. Soooo, I went on a shopping spree on IGN. Upgraded to every crafting purple except chest piece and boom, whole new jugg. Same pull but with my hp at around 70% left. Just trying to say warriors in general are a tank/heavy armor class that are VERY gear dependent (most ppl already know, some don't). Were not suppose to be putting out huge amounts of dps, in some cases sure, savour that time that we were buffed. Move on or reroll diff class. Wouldn't be fair if a heavy armor class going around 2-3 shotting people....oh wait there is. But anyways, good hunting

 

All classes depend on gear to an extent, but tanks, Juggernauts specifically, rely on the right gear and spec the absolute most.

[Darth_Dynas]

There is a chance maybe they will fix some of this when they implent the artifact stuff?

 

All I know is I WANT to play wtih a light saber. That is why i picked up this game. I currently have a near leveled 37 level sentinel and a 28 or so sage on the good republic side (so I already took a hit in the fun/cool department for balance sake)

 

I think the melee classes all have issues. I know I WISH i had went guardian and pure tank just because that should be fairly simple to play and surviable. Everyone I have interacted with in the game is unhappy with their guardians and sentinels.

 

I know for my sentinel I'm really hoping that at the end game i can do better, but for now i have a very very hard time doing my solo quests. PVP is a real pain too. I spend hours and hours on the game trying to keep my gear current and I get rocked in pvp by operatives in a few hits. I can sort of accept some of this stuff because sentinels are designed to be squishy, but it seems to me they made the jedi classes a little too squishy. I've heard the guardians make crappy tanks, even when spec'd tanks. That is not a good thing. I know sentinels are not good dps at least at my level.

 

My sage rocks everything. No issue soloing anything in the story. No issues in flashpoints or heriocs. I can even solo a few things. I can pretty much do any of the proper level quests. Meaning - I can go into a flashpoint that is level 25 when i'm 25 an not feel gimped.

 

Last night I ran a flashpoint that was level 33. I went in with a rank 41 guardian, 37 sentinel (me), a commando and I think we had someone using DOC to heal (until we got a high level healer).

 

we all had good gear, and we all got wiped over and over again. It could be as some mentioned here eq. But that just means taht GEAR leveling up is obviously an issue and more jedi melee gear needs to be awarded or something. I really really hope this isn't how it is at the end game. I want to play my sentinel not my sage.

 

I am half wondering if many of the attacks should have LESS focus requirement. I wonder if that would would help. It seems to me that getting enough focus where as the other types of classes all can just spam their hard hitters.