The Jedi Knight, and Sith Warrior classes need a huge buff.

[Dirtydurst]

then play something else, there are too many lightsaber people anyways.

 

Thanks for the constructive post, troll doucher.

[Bulbonius]

This is what competent marauder/sentinel pvper can do at 50 :

[SithCode-]

This is what competent marauder/sentinel pvper can do at 50 :

 

Rank 60 valor stomping lowbies ? best you got ?

[Lycandresden]

guys its true at first it seems SW/JK is underpowered, but your playing them like a big sack of meat, for example if your dps spec'd in warzones you need to stance dance and dont just charge in and attack everyone coz you will get focused and go down, this class requires you to play very smart and the pay off is worth it when you finally learn to use this class, and yes I have a lvl50 jugg and they are very gear dependant but once you have gear and FULLY learn to use your class its competitive as any other

[Kagek]

Most issues are not with the Immortal spec, but the dps specs. For example, it is better to level in soresu and not your tree's form because you give up so much durability, and lack real stuns, heals, and ability to flat out avoid damage (being ranged and kiting), while putting out lesser numbers than other dps specs.

 

Really? Leveled to 50 while using Shien all the time. Had Jaesa as companion since I got her. Dunno how you get enough Rage in Soresu to use your abilities.

 

I will admit that it was a difficult time and I was 3-4 levels above content I was killing at all times. I guess DPS spec is DPS spec, doesn't matter what armor you're wearing in this game. It's a race to kill the mobs before they kill you, and the race is quite short.

[Tangenobi]

The main problem to me is BH/Trooper drop most of mobs via AoE and then start on the heroic mob(s) before they even get touched...but Knights hsve to jump in and gets hit immediately..damage wise Sents (Not sure about vig guardians pre 40) seem to do more dps single target...

[Xanxari]

I'd say, from my experience as a lvl 43 Sniper, 40+ Juggernauts, Marauders and Powertechs are my worst nightmares... They simply outlive whatever I can throw at them... Heck Powertechs and Juggernauts can just waltz through my friendlies straight to me, down me and then strut around for quite a while before hitting the dirt, with only exception is me getting a good healing or pulling out a good knockback down the ledge or having them get zerged down hardcore.

 

Maras are particularly depressing with Obfuscate, Undying Rage and Saber Ward... just can't touch them. Their stealth only adds insult to injury.

 

 

Assassins, Ops and Sorcs are much easier - at least you can nuke them down, if they go Rambo on you. I also find it much easier to run away from those.

 

Snipers and Arsenal Mercs are not much of a threat really, just because if you are at a disadvantage you can simply LoS and run away FTW or just wait until they get zerged down...

 

 

Basically over my history of PvP, warriors climbed from "lol free kill" status to something I don't even target anymore, because it is pointless and with all the firepower I need to down one, I would probably kill 2 Sorcs/Sins.

 

 

Mark my words, in 1-2 months you will see a whole *****torm of QQ threads about Warriors, they gain power later on at alarming rates.

 

 

do you play on Scepter of ragnos? (EU server) that sith warrior you are talking abourt sounds like me if i see someone hide behind a cover im going for him for i know they will kill my team m8s if i dont **** him up,

 

as a sith warrior in PvP my target list is, Healers any class > smugler/operative > sorc/sage > assassins/maraudes > Tanks.....

[Obi-Shinobi]

Edited January 6, 2012 by Obi-Shinobi

[Hambunctious]

No buffs! Nerf everyone else!

[MasterPerseus]

The idea that the Knight/Warrior is significantly weaker than other classes is a true fact.

 

Bioware intended this. Why?

 

Because they want to prevent everyone from simply picking those classes. A relatively stronger agent, or bounty hunter would be a great incentive to those who would like to play a Knight/Warrior, but do not mind trying out another class.

 

This is a fact, and it will always hold true. The Warrior/Knight will potentially get a very small buff, but expect them to be relatively weaker than other classes because there will always be an overabundance of people who pick these classes.

 

This is Bioware's way of making sure there are not too many Knights/Warriors.

[CaptainDil]

So im just going to throw my 2 cents out on this thread.

 

I have a level 46 juggernaut and 26 merc (healer)

 

 

As a juggernaut, I like to be.. well, THE JUGGERNAUT ******

 

...and I am. Whether a FP, PVP, or questing, I tank the **** outta ****. I mean cmon, we fly in doing a ****** front flip: stunning (if specd immortal) and immobilizing a target. Then we have all these threat skills to take damage and an AoE slow. Then when we're taking all the damage, we have multiple skills dedicated to keeping you alive. And those are on a 2-3 minute CD which is nothing. Even in pvp you can only die like a MAX of 2 times before they're off CD.

 

So while you're up in said players grill getting jiggy with it disrupting/clinging on to him, (depending on what you're doing) you can choke that ***** out, bicycle kick him, yell at him, throw his *** to the ground, or pimp slap him. Yeah ik which option shouldnt I choose.

 

Oh, and regardless of what you're fighting, a tank juggernaut (immortal) can lower any enemies armor a **** ton in ~ 10 seconds with 1 crushing blow and 2 sundering assaults which helps more than I think anyone here is taking into consideration.

 

 

Now, I can't say I'm oblivious to the lack of damage COMPARED TO THE OTHER CLASSES, but I still feel like I'm doing very significant damage for someone who's suppose to be taking all the heat. I feel like some people are forgetting a tank's role or maybe just playing them wrong.

 

 

My brother plays a marauder at a similar level and we can literally take anyone 2v1.... you could imagine how difficult it is to keep off two bullies who keep choking, slowing, smacking, taunting, and slapping you around. And ik you're like "oh duh 2v1 no ****." to which i answer with: Warzones, FPs, Raids - all of it encourages teamwork and our "lack of apparent damage" doesn't hinder our ability to assist the group.

 

Sure we don't look the best on paper, but I can't tell you how many times I've strung together these moves we were given into something awesome. I'll go out on a limb and even say they have the ability to help a team the most.

 

 

 

HOWEVER, I do agree that I was fairly shocked at how quickly my BH merc could take out mobs of enemies... even with a healer spec. It's a joke how many AoE damage skills they have. But still, no matter how easy mode they felt, they still felt limited. I'm pretty convinced that although they have great skills and do massive damage, Heat still makes them fair. If they don't kill you after the first wave or two of blown skills, a juggernaut will beat a BH (and i'm sure the same would go with the other classes). I mean come on, why are you guys whining when you have a disrupt EVERY 8 SECONDS. Doesn't that kind of counter LOTS of things? on top of your choke/slap/push you know the deal.

 

And due to this heat restriction, I also feel that it limits the skill gap between BH. While these range DPS are sitting back waiting for CDs, warrior classes are constantly stringing together moves, timing disrupts, taking damage, staying alive, etc.....

 

 

As for this 12 year old OP GM who keeps whining, I think you need to find an easier game. You picked the class that doesn't spoon feed you kills

[Noth]

HOWEVER, I do agree that I was fairly shocked at how quickly my BH merc could take out mobs of enemies... even with a healer spec. It's a joke how many AoE damage skills they have. But still, no matter how easy mode they felt, they still felt limited. I'm pretty convinced that although they have great skills and do massive damage, Heat still makes them fair. If they don't kill you after the first wave or two of blown skills, a juggernaut will beat a BH (and i'm sure the same would go with the other classes). I mean come on, why are you guys whining when you have a disrupt EVERY 8 SECONDS. Doesn't that kind of counter LOTS of things? on top of your choke/slap/push you know the deal.

 

And due to this heat restriction, I also feel that it limits the skill gap between BH. While these range DPS are sitting back waiting for CDs, warrior classes are constantly stringing together moves, timing disrupts, taking damage, staying alive, etc.....

 

You do know that those tank classes have tons of ways to regain resources/shed heat right? Further they have rotations where they have to use basic attacks just like us. the big difference is that they can start building aggro must faster due to actually having resources at the start.

[Nirosu]

As a currently lvl 35 Jugg that is Rage spec I feel like I'm hitting with a wet noodle compared to my 35 merc. And this is in both pve and pvp.

There is a lot of things that could be changed to improve the jedi knight / sith warrior. Hopefully we get to see at least some tweaks with in the next two weeks..

[brandonspikes]

So im just going to throw my 2 cents out on this thread.

 

I have a level 46 juggernaut and 26 merc (healer)

So you have no idea what endgame is like.

 

As a juggernaut, I like to be.. well, THE JUGGERNAUT ******

 

...and I am. Whether a FP, PVP, or questing, I tank the **** outta ****. I mean cmon, we fly in doing a ****** front flip: stunning (if specd immortal) and immobilizing a target. Then we have all these threat skills to take damage and an AoE slow. Then when we're taking all the damage, we have multiple skills dedicated to keeping you alive. And those are on a 2-3 minute CD which is nothing. Even in pvp you can only die like a MAX of 2 times before they're off CD.

 

So while you're up in said players grill getting jiggy with it disrupting/clinging on to him, (depending on what you're doing) you can choke that ***** out, bicycle kick him, yell at him, throw his *** to the ground, or pimp slap him. Yeah ik which option shouldnt I choose.

 

Oh, and regardless of what you're fighting, a tank juggernaut (immortal) can lower any enemies armor a **** ton in ~ 10 seconds with 1 crushing blow and 2 sundering assaults which helps more than I think anyone here is taking into consideration.

 

 

Now, I can't say I'm oblivious to the lack of damage COMPARED TO THE OTHER CLASSES, but I still feel like I'm doing very significant damage for someone who's suppose to be taking all the heat. I feel like some people are forgetting a tank's role or maybe just playing them wrong.

Level 40 BH's in epics out AOE a Sith Warrior Jugg in 50 epics

 

 

My brother plays a marauder at a similar level and we can literally take anyone 2v1.... you could imagine how difficult it is to keep off two bullies who keep choking, slowing, smacking, taunting, and slapping you around. And ik you're like "oh duh 2v1 no ****." to which i answer with: Warzones, FPs, Raids - all of it encourages teamwork and our "lack of apparent damage" doesn't hinder our ability to assist the group.

 

Sure we don't look the best on paper, but I can't tell you how many times I've strung together these moves we were given into something awesome. I'll go out on a limb and even say they have the ability to help a team the most.

 

 

 

HOWEVER, I do agree that I was fairly shocked at how quickly my BH merc could take out mobs of enemies... even with a healer spec. It's a joke how many AoE damage skills they have. But still, no matter how easy mode they felt, they still felt limited. I'm pretty convinced that although they have great skills and do massive damage, Heat still makes them fair. If they don't kill you after the first wave or two of blown skills, a juggernaut will beat a BH (and i'm sure the same would go with the other classes). I mean come on, why are you guys whining when you have a disrupt EVERY 8 SECONDS. Doesn't that kind of counter LOTS of things? on top of your choke/slap/push you know the deal.

 

And due to this heat restriction, I also feel that it limits the skill gap between BH. While these range DPS are sitting back waiting for CDs, warrior classes are constantly stringing together moves, timing disrupts, taking damage, staying alive, etc.....

 

 

As for this 12 year old OP GM who keeps whining, I think you need to find an easier game. You picked the class that doesn't spoon feed you kills

Apparently you cannot read, I'm 20 years old. I've been gaming since I was 3-4

Hereyago

[aeterno]

Leveling I never really felt a problem while vigilance specced. It wasn't the fastest I dropped mobs but I got there with good dots and Kira helped speed things up, or I tanked an elite using Doc.

 

Thoe it hast to be said that I did a lot of content and was usually 3 levels above the mobs. Maybe try doing that and level up some more if you're having questing problems.

 

I switched to Focus the other day and its a breeze to take mob pack down now. Jump on the strongest in a group, slap stasis or force exhaust on him and once the singularities tick 4 you let off a guaranteed crit force sweep that hits every mob around you to basically 1shot them. A walking AOE bomb that hits as hard if not harder than anything BH/Trooper can unload from the get go and its on a shorter cooldown. Just takes some moves to set it up unlike the point and place a faction logo on the floor.

 

 

Haven`t tested it on Illium yet, but considering this does a mean number on players in PvP I'm assuming it'll work quite well there too.

[Y-Yorle]

As Jedi Guardian at lv 46, I haven't had a huge amount of trouble in PvE as of yet. However, I am terribly jealous of that "one minute cooldown + 30s max of 20% dmg reduce + reflect" buff Sentinels/Marauders get. Would love to have something like that (even without the reflect on it) as a tanking Guardian. One minute isn't a huge amount of time, especially if you're protected half of the time at maximum. As tank in mostly PuG warzones I feel rather squishy often (No dedicated healing usually) because I got 3m cd's on my defensive abilities.

[KiranK]

The idea that the Knight/Warrior is significantly weaker than other classes is a true fact.

 

Bioware intended this. Why?

 

Because they want to prevent everyone from simply picking those classes. A relatively stronger agent, or bounty hunter would be a great incentive to those who would like to play a Knight/Warrior, but do not mind trying out another class.

 

This is a fact, and it will always hold true. The Warrior/Knight will potentially get a very small buff, but expect them to be relatively weaker than other classes because there will always be an overabundance of people who pick these classes.

 

This is Bioware's way of making sure there are not too many Knights/Warriors.

 

Then Bioware is retarded. All we have now is an overload of Sith Sorcerers and Jedi Sages, which are both saber wielders AND powerfully viable. This kind of logic fixes nothing and it NEVER WILL. Balance all classes, period.

[PinnyFox]

As Jedi Guardian at lv 46, I haven't had a huge amount of trouble in PvE as of yet. However, I am terribly jealous of that "one minute cooldown + 30s max of 20% dmg reduce + reflect" buff Sentinels/Marauders get. Would love to have something like that (even without the reflect on it) as a tanking Guardian. One minute isn't a huge amount of time, especially if you're protected half of the time at maximum. As tank in mostly PuG warzones I feel rather squishy often (No dedicated healing usually) because I got 3m cd's on my defensive abilities.

 

It's really not that good at all. It's not reflect in the sense of "if they did 500 damage to you, you reflect 50% of it so they take 250 damage" it's reflect in the sense of "oh, we might as well let you do damage when they hit you. Here, do 50 damage every time you get hit."

[Radiatonia]

Twinked out Marauder at 45. Was one of the ones who didn't want to spoil the story in beta, so I spent a long time in the long term beta test playing it and one other class only. They sucked then, and they still kind of suck now. Though the end of beta revamp made them a bit better.

 

Either way, either Voss, Hoth, and Belsavis are way over-tuned, or something is very wrong.

 

Either way, it's incredibly tedious. I can deal with normal mobs quick enough, but anything strong or higher will typically down my companion and/or do alot of damage to me by the time I kill it.

 

 

Experiments with the various specs have revealed that Carnage is comparatively flat out terrible for PVE post 40, where-as it's an excellent spec until about the 30's. After that it starts to drop off in effectiveness.

 

Rage's final skill makes it much more useful as a tree post 40, before that it's useless in its entirely for decent DPSing. This is because the final tree skill is one of only two ways to get the smash damage buff. The only other way is to force choke something, which is on an interruptible channel that can be knocked backwards. And also because without picking up another skill in the tree (That most people won't have until mid-game.) you can't even trigger auto crits with smash.

 

Annihilation is basically the "I want to be an off tank every three minutes" spec. Which means it sucks for anything other then solo leveling compared to the other two.

 

None of them really do DPS properly in a way that isn't extremely complex and difficult to handle, especially in PVP. Nor do they handle the overall issue of survivability, which is utterly crap for Marauders starting around the late mid-game.

 

So my choices are to play a tree that sucks in PVE late-game, a tree that works off of burst AOE spamming (Fairly slow DPS in raids and instances, for the end-game. And it flat out sucks in PVP unless people are stupid up enough to group up.), or a tree that's geared towards leveling, not DPS.

 

 

That's not getting into the fact that my survivability is crap towards even level mobs. It's entirely tied to a bunch of skills with fairly long cooldowns.

 

Or the fact that the level of complexity attributed to this class is way past anything else in the game. When I play my Mercenary, I find a target, I shoot it. It dies. Sometimes I just decide to use Death from Above to end the fight before it can even begin, if it's trash mobs. My Marauder has to leap in, trigger any number of attacks, sometimes (in the case of Rage), wait for a DOT to finish, do my damager. Then repeat the process all over again.

 

Which (In the case of Rage, again. This is my favorite tree to pick apart. For the good burst DPS it does, it's amazingly difficult to play well consistently.) means executing an attack that might be on cooldown. Or running out of range and leaping back in, hoping the mob doesn't decide to follow me.

 

Even my agent has an easier time playing the game, and I technically have like three or four bars of skills to work with at only twenty five. However, all those skills add utility through DPSing, or are just plain old utility skills. My Marauder by contrast, has an extremely complex series of absolutely necessary skills that I have to combo so I can do damage on par with other classes.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Radiatonia

[LordPoloSWTOR]

Juggz are fine

 

Lvl 50 - in full epics lvl 50 mixed pvp.

 

Juggz - immortal mix Vengeance spec

 

I would like to fix the bugs of our skills like ravage for exemple some may had.

 

Aside from that... man its a tank i outlived 6 players on my *** for a long period of time and as for pve You just have to be more careful on what you do and make sure you always have Force scream and retaliation up. You have 2 stuns as a juggernaut + force charge immobolize ( stun if specced and Unstoppable specc in vengeance). Like for multiple pulls cahrge one force scream the other throw light saber on thrid go for strong mobs you have aoe taunt jeese stop whinning. Oh and about AoE you have some and IT reduces 5% ACCURACY can the other tank class do that as a Aoe? no. Stop just stop and think

 

 

Maybe some classes are just too buffed up and needs to be toned down instead of being buffed up.

 

As for pvp, a wish list on my menu is Healing debuffs skill but if it as to be game breaking then i dont need it we are fine as we are. 2 charge mutliple cc (force push counts as one be smart when u use it tough)

 

I will repeat again We (as Juggz) need our skills to be fix that is all that we need.

 

edit: and we have aoe slow i don't think alot of classes have large AoE slow

Edited January 7, 2012 by LordPoloSWTOR

[alienstalker]

I totally agree with you, when I'm the sith warrior I don't feel like a true sith, I feel weak as crap. The sith warrior's lightsaber and force damage simply isn't enough damage and need to deal more damage. Plus sith inquisitors destroy me, even when I started on Korriban they destroyed me. Because they have lightning and my attacks do hardly any damage while they can take off a quarter of my health with a single lightning burst.

[brandonspikes]

Juggz are fine

 

Lvl 50 - in full epics lvl 50 mixed pvp.

 

Juggz - immortal mix Vengeance spec

 

I would like to fix the bugs of our skills like ravage for exemple some may had.

 

Aside from that... man its a tank i outlived 6 players on my *** for a long period of time and as for pve You just have to be more careful on what you do and make sure you always have Force scream and retaliation up. You have 2 stuns as a juggernaut + force charge immobolize ( stun if specced and Unstoppable specc in vengeance). Like for multiple pulls cahrge one force scream the other throw light saber on thrid go for strong mobs you have aoe taunt jeese stop whinning. Oh and about AoE you have some and IT reduces 5% ACCURACY can the other tank class do that as a Aoe? no. Stop just stop and think

 

 

Maybe some classes are just too buffed up and needs to be toned down instead of being buffed up.

 

As for pvp, a wish list on my menu is Healing debuffs skill but if it as to be game breaking then i dont need it we are fine as we are. 2 charge mutliple cc (force push counts as one be smart when u use it tough)

 

I will repeat again We (as Juggz) need our skills to be fix that is all that we need.

 

edit: and we have aoe slow i don't think alot of classes have large AoE slow

 

You hurt my head.

 

I would much rather have a full blown CC then a snares and moves that dont work in PVP.

[Darthmoriquendi]

I have immortal spec juggy lvl 42 and i love her.......

[OldJarJar]

aye I agree, I have a Sith Mara and i can't tackle mobs without my companion, and i have the latest armour and moves ofr my level.. it's annoying, as soon as my companion dies i know i die then i await for the 10m revive time.. wooo.. Edited January 7, 2012 by OldJarJar

[KCjoker]

I made it a point to finish my Marauder's Darth title in the beta knowing they were too weak to play when the game went live. I love how it plays but it was so damn weak and you're forced to use your healer pet which sucks. I'm playing as a Sorcerer now because I didn't want to start off with a weak char. Also as a healer I've noticed that Powertech's are better tanks than Juggz IMO.